FSA - Ganondorf's OTHER downfall?

Right, the ALttP thread showed that most people believe ALttP to fall within the CT (Child Timeline). But it also showed that there's no clear consensus on how FSA relates to it, or whether FSA even comes before or after it. This brings me to my next question:

Does FSA relate the story of Ganon's fall into villainy in the CT?

Consider the following points:
1- FSA is a direct sequel to FS, and the intro to FS shows us that Link and Zelda aready know each other. Therefore, FS and FSA taking place immediately after the Child Ending of OoT is possible.

2- If Ganondorf's attempt to enter the Sacred Realm in OoT was impossible in the CT, then Ganon would logically have needed to give up on it - possibly turning his attention toward the Dark Mirror and the Magic Trident?

3- Ganondorf's origins in FSA are identical to his origins in OoT, and in FSA it appears that this is the first time Ganondorf has come to the attention of Hyrule (Ganondorf is a name unknown to the Shrine Maidens in FSA, one of whom is puzzled as to why the Deku Scrubs would worship a mere Gerudo). If OoT didn't happen due to time travel and TP hasn't happened yet, then this makes perfect sense.

4- The Dark Mirror, clearly the same mirror as the Mirror of Twilight, is still intact. If FSA occurs in the CT (as most seem to think) then the only way this is possible is if FSA is before TP.

5- Lex's theory of 'the Four Sword seal sent him to the Sacred Realm where he got his hands on the Triforce' still holds water in this case. If so, this would explain where he had gotten the ToP when the Sages of TP summon him for execution.

So to sum up, the timeline if this is the case would be as follows:

---TWW/PH
---/
OoT
---\
---FS/FSA-MM-TP-ALttP

with Zelda calling Link to inspect the FS seal immediately after his return to the Child Timeline and then Link departing for Termina immediately after sealing Ganon away in FSA. Alternatively, you could have Link leaving for Termina immediately after OoT and then embarking on FS/FSA when he returns, but some people don't think he does return, so whatever.

Comments?

No, it doesn't.

The Gerudo are considered good; Ganondorf is not a known threat until late in the game.

Interesting theory, but I don't think that the FS games can go before TP. And where's tMC, by the way?

As I said, it doesn't sound probable, mostly because I highly, highly doubt that Ganondorf was sealed, and released, before the execution scene of TP.

Also, the sages refer to him only as ganondorf, never ganon. They refer to him as a thief trying to take control of the sacred realm(but was stopped), and that's why he was to be executed. That doesn't match FSA's story.

And I just can't see Ganondorf going from man to pig(FSA), back to man(TP), and then back to pig again(ALttP).

Also, in FSA, Ganondorf is an "ancient demon reborn", but placing the games this close to OoT doesn't make the demon ancient at all. And if OoT Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf are the same, Ganondorf in FSA couldn't have been the one in TP.

I'd put FS and FSA after TP. As for tMC... meh.

No I'm not very acuratly convinced by this.

The Dark Mirror and the mirror of Twighlight are two completely different things.
Further more there's evidance to put FS and FSA after TP rather that before it.

I'll give you the evidance in about 5 hours seeing as my lunch is nearly over and I need to go to class.

Lex: That's my point - OoT never happened and so Ganondorf never made a name for himself, and never corrupted the Gerudo to be as evil as we see in the Gerudo Fortress at the end of OoT. Before the split, they are referred to only as thieves, and even then

Hombre: TMC is before OoT but I left that out to stop people from taking one look at the theory and saying 'meh, it's another "TMC is first" theory'.
And you're assuming that the ancient demon that they refer to in FSA is the Ganondorf of OoT. This is not necessarily the case. The 'Ganondorf' of this theory was born shortly before OoT but 'Ganon' may be a demon older than we realise.

Pinecove: I'm not sure you'll be able to convince me that they are two different mirrors but I'll wait for your post and see.

OoT never happened and so Ganondorf never made a name for himself

Near beggining of the game? Ganondorf bowing infront of the King?

*Cough*

TMC is before OoT but I left that out to stop people from taking one look at the theory and saying 'meh, it's another "TMC is first" theory'.
And you're assuming that the ancient demon that they refer to in FSA is the Ganondorf of OoT. This is not necessarily the case. The 'Ganondorf' of this theory was born shortly before OoT but 'Ganon' may be a demon older than we realise.

I place TMC before OoT but I still see flaws in this theory.
Yes I belive the Ancient Demon Reborn Reffers to Ganon because that's what Zelda says.

"Ganon ......." ADR yadayada.

Pinecove: I'm not sure you'll be able to convince me that they are two different mirrors but I'll wait for your post and see.

And now for my actuall reply.

Dark Mirror

The DM and the TM are two entirely different things.

I say that because the DW in FSA and the TR are two entirely different things.

1. The TR has weird skys and civilization where as the DW does not.
2. The DW in FSA is caused by Ganon. The TR is not.

I think #2 cleared that up.
The TR was created in the great war. The DW in FSA was created by Ganon. BIG difference.

If you want more proof I'll respond with answers other than about the mirrors.

-Ganondorf bowing in front of the king would not make Shrine Maidens suspect him of being evil
-Ancient demon does refer to Ganon but Ganondorf of OoT may himself be the rebirth of a demon called 'Ganon'
-the Dark World of FSA has nothing to do with the Dark Mirror (it's actually accessed by Moon Gates - the Dark Mirror isn't elaborated upon further than the fact that an evil tribe was sealed inside in ancient times, and that it can create evil versions of Link), so proving that the Dark World is not the Twilight Realm does not prove that the Dark Mirror is not the Mirror of Twilight.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

-Ganondorf bowing in front of the king would not make Shrine Maidens suspect him of being evil
-Ancient demon does refer to Ganon but Ganondorf of OoT may himself be the rebirth of a demon called 'Ganon'
-the Dark World of FSA has nothing to do with the Dark Mirror (it's actually accessed by Moon Gates - the Dark Mirror isn't elaborated upon further than the fact that an evil tribe was sealed inside in ancient times, and that it can create evil versions of Link), so proving that the Dark World is not the Twilight Realm does not prove that the Dark Mirror is not the Mirror of Twilight.

For some reason, I do not see the Twili as fitting the role of those Dark Links, even heavily altered.

Also, you should consider the geography for this. I really doubt that the maps would synch up enough. And also, did Ganondorf have a trident in TP? If not, I really doubt that the Ganon in FSA lost it, then found it again for ALttP.

There are no "Dark Links" involved in the actual Interloper story. They were merely depictions of the Interlopers being "shadowy" figures, just like Ilia making a move on Link and Link killing her was meant to represent friend turning against friend, but not literally Link slaying Ilia.

Ganondorf bowing in front of the king would not make Shrine Maidens suspect him of being evil

Princess Zelda's job is to seal evil, and she, at least, sees Ganondorf as a threat. Indeed, if FSA is to be where you claim it is in the Child Timeline, she knows Ganondorf is a threat. If you want to suggest that the Shrine Maidens would not have this knowledge, by extension, then you claim that Ganondorf, who seeks to steal the Triforce, is not an acknowledged threat? (Ganondorf, by the way, never once mentions his hunt for the power of the gods or the Sacred Realm.)

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

There are no "Dark Links" involved in the actual Interloper story. They were merely depictions of the Interlopers being "shadowy" figures, just like Ilia making a move on Link and Link killing her was meant to represent friend turning against friend, but not literally Link slaying Ilia.



Princess Zelda's job is to seal evil, and she, at least, sees Ganondorf as a threat. Indeed, if FSA is to be where you claim it is in the Child Timeline, she knows Ganondorf is a threat. If you want to suggest that the Shrine Maidens would not have this knowledge, by extension, then you claim that Ganondorf, who seeks to steal the Triforce, is not an acknowledged threat? (Ganondorf, by the way, never once mentions his hunt for the power of the gods or the Sacred Realm.)

I wasn't using the Dark Links as a connection to TP (give me some credit), I was only mentioning that it was one of two powers the Dark Mirror had in FSA, neither of which was teleportation to the Dark World. To be sure, it may have had additional, unmentioned powers but I was just saying what was fact.

As for Zelda seeing Ganondorf as a threat, I'll admit I don't have an immediate answer to that. On the other hand, we don't know how much Link told her about the alternate timeline, so whether or not she had anything more than uneasy feelings about him in the CT is anyone's guess. And even if she'd known that he was evil, it's still not reason enough to expect Dekus to worship him.

Another thing that I forgot to mention earlier. If this is before TP, then what relationship do the Shrine Maidens have to the Seven Sages of OoT and TP?

I hope I need not remind you that the maidens seen in ALttP were their descendants. So, this theory would assume that the Shrine Maidens were a totally different group of seven special girls that include Zelda in their ranks? Or are we to assume that they are more coveted than the seven sages who are still alive at this time (since they lasted since OoT to TP), including the original Zelda?

Originally Posted by HurriPen

If this is before TP, then what relationship do the Shrine Maidens have to the Seven Sages of OoT and TP?

I hope I need not remind you that the maidens seen in ALttP were their descendants.

The Maidens of ALttP are the descendants of the Seven Sages of the Imprisoning War. That's basic. If you assert that they are descended from the Seven Shrine Maidens, then you've already made the connection yourself: Shrine Maiden = Sage.