"Twilight Princess" and the "Zelda II" Manual - A Possible Connection

If you're an old-timer like me, you're undoubtedly familiar with the Zelda II instruction manual published by Nintendo, which featured (as do most of the manuals) rather ginchy animé "cel" artwork as part of the featured backstory. And if you've played or finished Twilight Princess, you're no doubt well-acquainted with Hyrule Castle Town, and how the city now connects with the palace in TP, as opposed to the country road one traverses in Ocarina of Time in order to reach it.

It was while kibitzing about in the city (specifically, standing atop one of the balconies overlooking it) that I suddenly flashed back to an image from the Adventure of Link instruction manual...specifically, the one on the right-hand side:



Seem rather familiar?

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that the Nintendo game-designers (or Eiji Aonuma himself) had this exact image in their heads when they conceived of Twilight Princess's version of Hyrule Castle Town...but it's damn eerie, nonetheless. Similarly, the towns do not match up on some of the finer nitpicky-details, but considering that the artwork was produced back in 1987, a few minor inconsistencies are to be expected.

We know from the games that the Princess Zelda asleep in Zelda II was an earlier relative of the Zeldas seen in A Link to the Past and the first two NES games, and apparently the entire sleeping-spell fiasco *could* have happened roughly around Twilight Princess's historical era...that is to say, when the palace and the city were connected geographically, and the King of Hyrule could stand atop a balcony and survey his subjects, et al.

Likewise, we also know that Hyrule City is completely absent from the face of the kingdom by the time Zelda III and Agahnim roll around, which narrows down the timeframe of when Sleeping Zelda lived considerably, if the city from the Adventure of Link manual is the same as OoT's and TP's.

Another point:

Nowhere in the original Legend of Zelda or The Adventure of Link do we see a town/city connected to a palace -- the North Castle in Zelda II is shown atop a great promontory, with no urban development nearby whatsoever; the palace shown in the manual is in the middle of the city, so they're clearly two different locations. And this image is unequivocally *not* set circa the ALttP era -- there's no major metropolis in southern Hyrule akin to the one seen in the manual art, as most of the populace seems to have relocated elsewhere by then.

(Side-thought: The alternate-universe Hyrule Castle seen at the bottom of the ocean in The Wind Waker is a dead-ringer for Zelda II's North Castle, right down to the exterior geography...and I'm probably not alone in thinking so. Considering the fact that a giant volcano sits atop the site of the old southern Hyrule Castle and town in the "future" OoT timeline, the royal family might have been forced by necessity to relocate to the north centuries earlier than they do in the "prime" timeline.)

And, which begs the obvious question -- when the government of Hyrule relocated to the northlands in later centuries, when was Sleeping Zelda's body carted up there to the North Castle from southern Hyrule?

It might only be an accidental synchronicity...but if so, it's one helluva neat one.

This could have been the insperation for TP but nothing more.

LoZ/AoL come after ALttP and OoX.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

This could have been the insperation for TP but nothing more.

LoZ/AoL come after ALttP and OoX.

Clearly they do, but the "Sleeping Zelda" seen in Zelda II is not the same Zelda rescued by Link just a few years earlier in the first NES title -- that particular Zelda essentially shared the North Castle with her ancestor, who was struck down by the magician centuries earlier, and lay in state, unconscious, that entire time.

That ancestor is the Princess Zelda you're trying to awaken in The Adventure of Link by restoring the crystals to the palaces.

My question is, did the sleeping spell get placed on the ancestor-Zelda around the historical period when the southern Hyrule Castle was connected to the city geographically? Which would place it some time adjacent to Twilight Princess but prior to A Link to the Past, in which the city no longer exists.

Originally Posted by Chaos Auteur

Clearly they do, but the "Sleeping Zelda" seen in Zelda II is not the same Zelda rescued by Link just a few years earlier in the first NES title -- that particular Zelda essentially shared the North Castle with her ancestor, who was struck down by the magician centuries earlier, and lay in state, unconscious, that entire time.

With the ToC in the Great Palace the entire time. So that kinda makes the ToC being in ALttP kinda hard.

There has been a fountain and people in every version of Castle Town.
What appears on the gameplay map is only indicative of those places relative to one another; what does not appear cannot be assumed to simply not exist.

Originally Posted by Evilsbane

With the ToC in the Great Palace the entire time. So that kinda makes the ToC being in ALttP kinda hard.

Not necessarily -- we still don't know when, precisely, that particular King of Hyrule (the one seen in the Adventure of Link manual artwork) relocated the Triforce of Courage northward to the Great Palace, but it still tracks, in a sense.

Ganon or someone else might have seized the ToC from the Great Palace in some as-yet-unreleased future Zelda game (there are now a hypothetically-infinite number of games which could be set between Twilight Princess and Zelda III) prior to the events of ALttP, with that particular game's Link (or someone else entirely) then returning it to the Great Palace.

The ALttP designers evidently didn't count on there being multiple games set in between Zelda III's events and OoT's Imprisoning War, which opens up all kinds of cans of precedental worms, in storytelling terms. At any rate, it's about the only consistent way of making sense of the Adventure of Link manual art at the moment, and of fitting it into the greater picture.

"Up" this one goes...

Originally Posted by Pinecove

This could have been the insperation for TP but nothing more.

LoZ/AoL come after ALttP and OoX.

You hit the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

This could have been the insperation for TP but nothing more.

LoZ/AoL come after ALttP and OoX.

I won't disagree -- indeed, I mention this in the very first post, that, at best, Aonuma and/or Miyamoto might have used the manual artwork in passing as an inspirational piece.

But even if it *is* nothing more than a coincidence, it's an amazing one.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

There has been a fountain and people in every version of Castle Town.
What appears on the gameplay map is only indicative of those places relative to one another; what does not appear cannot be assumed to simply not exist.

Yup -- for example, the Eastern Palace in Zelda III might have existed as far back in time as the era of Twilight Princess (or even existed as an earlier structure in Ocarina of Time), but was "inaccessible" for the purposes of TP.

(...Again, just to give a hypothetical, not-at-all-official "f'rinstance.")

Likewise, just because we don't see the ruins of the Lake Hylia Bridge in ALttP, doesn't mean they aren't present in that particular game, retconically-speaking -- we're only allowed to see certain things in certain games; and of course, the older the console-generation, the less the designers could incorporate into the overall graphic design.

Zelda III's graphics are positively primitive compared to its GameCube and Wii counterparts, and obviously we're not "able" to see whatever remnants are there from the earlier Twilight Princess historical period, such as the bridge.

(Deliberately overlooking -- before anyone says anything -- the fact that, yes, I know ALttP was developed many, many, many years before TP.)

Which is also why Southern Hyrule itself essentially doubles in size from LoZ to ALttP to OoT to TP...as the capabilities of each new system became apparent, the designers appropriately pushed the territorial-scope of the kingdom outward in each respective new game, to boot.

I don't think the legend of the Sleeping Princess take place in the OoT/TP era. It's not impossible, but personally I feel very uneasy about it because it would mean the Golden Ages would be way too frequent. In my opinion, such eras should be extremely rare in fantasy, with several thousands of years between each. If there was one during the OoT/TP era there would be three Golden Ages in close succession; first the Age of the Hylia, mentioned in ALttP, then the OoT/TP era and finally the period that follows AoL.

However, there is evidence in TP that Hyrule Castle Town was built on the ruins of an even older city, probably even one that flourished during the Age of the Hylia. I'm referring to the sewers. When you return to Hyrule Castle with the injured Midna you must travel through what looks like the remains of an ancient city. It is possible that the Hyrule Castle in TP was built during the Age of the Hylia and somehow survived the destruction of the ancient city.

LoZ/AoL come after ALttP and OoX.

There's in-game evidence in OoX that makes LoZ/AoL->OoX a lot more likely.

With the ToC in the Great Palace the entire time. So that kinda makes the ToC being in ALttP kinda hard.

I don't think there's any connection between the guy who wrote the scroll (we don't even know if it's a King or not!) and the Ancient King. For one, we know it can't be the same. And it's unlikely it's his son.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

I don't think the legend of the Sleeping Princess take place in the OoT/TP era. It's not impossible, but personally I feel very uneasy about it because it would mean the Golden Ages would be way too frequent. In my opinion, such eras should be extremely rare in fantasy, with several thousands of years between each. If there was one during the OoT/TP era there would be three Golden Ages in close succession; first the Age of the Hylia, mentioned in ALttP, then the OoT/TP era and finally the period that follows AoL.

Interesting points, although one could also make the inference that, by definition, a new golden age of sorts would occur for the kingdom whenever a particular "Ganon-awakening" is thwarted by Link, though these do seem to be growing more and more frequent as the series goes on.

On the other hand, from all of the official documentation, the series only covers a span of centuries, not millennia, from Ocarina of Time to the NES games, in which case a Ganon-resurrection would be a far more timely occurrence for Hyrule, something which seems to take place as long as the Triforce exists.

It's quite interesting to note, though, that Ganon appears to be at his absolute physical weakest during the NES games, now seemingly permanently trapped in his pig-form (as opposed to being able to access his humanoid "Ganondorf" form), and commands his armies from beneath Death Mountain (Level 9), as opposed to having a more open presence as he does in earlier games in the series.

Evidently all of the constant kills by the Links over the centuries have gradually taken their toll on him, wearing him down to the point where he can only steal the Triforce of Power (instead of commanding all three), and to where he seems slighty more easily vanquished than in games like OoT, TWW, and TP.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

However, there is evidence in TP that Hyrule Castle Town was built on the ruins of an even older city, probably even one that flourished during the Age of the Hylia. I'm referring to the sewers. When you return to Hyrule Castle with the injured Midna you must travel through what looks like the remains of an ancient city. It is possible that the Hyrule Castle in TP was built during the Age of the Hylia and somehow survived the destruction of the ancient city.

Could be. In fact, the implication from Ocarina of Time is that the Hylian royal family has been around for quite some time, as well as the Sheikah, and having older strata of ruins around the kingdom makes sense in this context.

(In fact, A Link to the Past outright features "ancient Hylian ruins," so there it is.)

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

There's in-game evidence in OoX that makes LoZ/AoL->OoX a lot more likely.

True, and I'm tending to lean this way more and more myself as time goes on.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

I don't think there's any connection between the guy who wrote the scroll (we don't even know if it's a King or not!) and the Ancient King. For one, we know it can't be the same. And it's unlikely it's his son.

Actually, the text of the instruction manual makes it pretty clear that it's the King of Hyrule addressing the reader, as the text immediately preceding it describes the King's cryptic comments to the Prince about the Triforce of Courage, and the Prince's frustrated attempts to coerce his sister into revealing her knowledge that she received from the dying King.

It's obvious that the King was the same one who cast that spell over the Great Palace after placing the Triforce there, and laid all the details out in the scroll that Impa gives to Link prior to the start of the game.

Originally Posted by Chaos Auteur

True, and I'm tending to lean this way more and more myself as time goes on.

Have you seen the timeline placing OoX after WW along with TFPRCRL? It's worth checking out.

The slepping zelda is only for zelda I and II, ALL is about the triforce, when the magician put the spell upon zelda the triforce are separated, ToC are hide in the great palace and that piece was foun it in AOL. 4 that the sleeping zelda exist only in Zelda I and Zelda II, nothing to do with OOT,TP or ALTTP where the triforce are inside of the sacred realm from the begining.

And the hyrule castle and castle town desing from TP and the art of AOL manual,isnt the same.
Yes, we have a fountain in the middle of casttle town,and look some similars, but in OOT we have too a fountain.
Are only a classic desing for a medieval casttles and casstle towns,nothing else.

The castle similarity is a good and fun find. I bet they intentionally imitated it, Nintendo seems to love imitating old games in new stuff. Thinking of AoL, I kinda felt like the villages in TP were a visual throwback to AoL, because they have a "shotgun" shape to them.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Have you seen the timeline placing OoX after WW along with TFPRCRL? It's worth checking out.

The "Freshly Picked Oracles" Timeline

I don't really think one picture in the AoL manual is evidence of a timeline placement. As Lex said, it's very possible that not all of the Castle Town is shown in most games...just the parts relevant to the games.