A small question about ALTTP and the Imprisioning war

I'm trying to create a timeline theory, and I wanted to know this. Would the Ganon(dorf) that is in ALTTP have to be the same one sealed in the IW? It seems obvious, but I want some other opinions.

Originally Posted by Silver Warrior

I'm trying to create a timeline theory, and I wanted to know this. Would the Ganon(dorf) that is in ALTTP have to be the same one sealed in the IW? It seems obvious, but I want some other opinions.

There is only one Ganondorf in the entirety of the Zelda canon- every Ganon and Ganondorf is the same man.

In a "New Child" timeline, in which one assumes that OOT is a representation of the Imprisoning War/Seal War (that which inspired the AlttP) legend, as Nintendo once stated was the case, then a fully coherent line will likely have two seperate Ganons...

The IW Ganon will be the Ganon who is killed in tWW, the Ganon actually fought in AlttP wll either be a new character or the Ganon of Four Swords Adventure.

In any other case (where Ocarina Of Time is not considered to be the Seal War, as it the current popular oppinion... not that thatproovs it corret) then, for simplicities sake, they will almost certainly be the same Ganon.

(Edit: Concerning previous post, I'm considering one Ganon "Lifecycle"; A Ganon retruned from the dead (either resurected or reborn) may in facvt be the same man, but, in the consideration of my post, is essentially a "different" Ganon))

To be fair, the Ganon of Four Swords Adventures is the "ancient demon reborn"- Ganondorf simply acquired a new body.

All A Link to the Past itself actually says on the subject of Ganondorf is that he entered the Sacred Realm and was unable to return to the Light World. Given this, we know only that Ganondorf never returned to the Light World once he entered the Sacred Realm.

-- At Ocarina's release, this seemed to be contradicted by the events of Ocarina.
-- At Wind Waker's release, the Ganon who had left the Sacred Realm was killed, so it seemed clear that after his sealing in Adult Ocarina, he did not remain there for a period of time spanning the gap between Ocarina and Link to the Past.
-- Twilight Princess's scenario did not see him sealed in the Sacred Realm at all (unless it is the same world as the Twilight), but even in that case, he manages to escape to the Light world.

As such, I think it's clear that the Ganondorf in A Link to the Past is not the same Ganondorf as in Ocarina.

Since this is the only information we have on Ganondorf in A Link to the Past, it really hinges on whether you want Ganondorf to have remained there between the Imprisoning War and A Link to the Past. The game tells us nothing one way or the other. Given this, the war could take place during Ocarina, during/after Four Swords Adventures, or simply in some other event connected only to A Link to the Past.

No matter the case, A Link to the Past's events only require that the realm have been sealed (and that it remains sealed), and that Ganon is there. How or when or in what sequence any of these things happened is irrelevant, or at least insomuch as the fact that the original story has been removed from the manual completely and its elements scattered amongst several games.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

To be fair, the Ganon of Four Swords Adventures is the "ancient demon reborn"- Ganondorf simply acquired a new body.

How do you know that the ancient demon is Ganondorf?

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

How do you know that the ancient demon is Ganondorf?

The only other main villain involved is Vaati, who is distinctly not this Ganondorf. He is born of the Gerudo, and Ganondorf is the only Gerudo who qualifies as a demon.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

He is born of the Gerudo, and Ganondorf is the only Gerudo who qualifies as a demon.

Ganondorf is the only Gerudo we've seen who qualifies as a demon.

Certainly with all that demonic power in their heritage, there are likely more of them.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Ganondorf is the only Gerudo we've seen who qualifies as a demon.

Certainly with all that demonic power in their heritage, there are likely more of them.

What demonic power? Ganondorf has his power because he was marked as the chosen of Din- that occurred independently of his race. Koume and Kotake use dark magic, but hardly have demonic power. Nabooru has Sagely power. The fortune teller of questionable ethnicity in Phantom Hourglass can see the future. Not only is magic rare among the Gerudo, Ganondorf is the only one whose power qualifies as demonic.

Originally Posted by mmmmm_PIE

In any other case (where Ocarina Of Time is not considered to be the Seal War, as it the current popular oppinion... not that thatproovs it corret) then, for simplicities sake, they will almost certainly be the same Ganon.

(Edit: Concerning previous post, I'm considering one Ganon "Lifecycle"; A Ganon retruned from the dead (either resurected or reborn) may in fact be the same man, but, in the consideration of my post, is essentially a "different" Ganon))

OK. Since I don't think OoT is the IW, this makes the most sense to me.

As for the new discussion...
The "Ancient demon reborn" just means that the Ganondorf in FSA is a reincarnate of a previous Ganon, IMO.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

What demonic power? Ganondorf has his power because he was marked as the chosen of Din- that occurred independently of his race. Koume and Kotake use dark magic, but hardly have demonic power. Nabooru has Sagely power. The fortune teller of questionable ethnicity in Phantom Hourglass can see the future. Not only is magic rare among the Gerudo, Ganondorf is the only one whose power qualifies as demonic.

Ganondorf was an evil-magic wielder, and became commonly known as the "demon thief", according to the Sages in TP. After taking the Triforce of Power in OoT, Ganondorf became known as the "Demon King of Darkness" in the Japanese translation. The "demonic" part of Ganondorf is reflected by his heart of darkness; the Triforce of Power was only a catalyst that allowed Ganondorf to wield Darkness in a stronger fashion, as it was made clear in TP (his evil magic was his power both before and after taking the ToP).

Ganondorf's race is responsible for his evil heart only so far that the suffering of his tribe was the origin of his malevolence and lust for power. I believe that theme is meant to represent his character in every incarnation, whether or not it is the source.

PS: About Ganondorf being marked by Din, I call fanfiction. There is no evidence that the goddesses work independently from each other; all three are meant to be virtuous. And Ganondorf got the ToP in OoT because it was the quality "he most believed in", not because he was chosen or represented power.

Of course, Raian, it must be considered that "demonic" can apply to anyone with a particular malice, evil spirit or otherwise. It may not have specifically supernatural connotations.

Originally Posted by Raian

Ganondorf was an evil-magic wielder, and became commonly known as the "demon thief", according to the Sages in TP. After taking the Triforce of Power in OoT, Ganondorf became known as the "Demon King of Darkness" in the Japanese translation. The "demonic" part of Ganondorf is reflected by his heart of darkness; the Triforce of Power was only a catalyst that allowed Ganondorf to wield Darkness in a stronger fashion, as it was made clear in TP (his evil magic was his power both before and after taking the ToP).

Ganondorf's race is responsible for his evil heart only so far that the suffering of his tribe was the origin of his malevolence and lust for power. I believe that theme is meant to represent his character in every incarnation, whether or not it is the source.

PS: About Ganondorf being marked by Din, I call fanfiction. There is no evidence that the goddesses work independently from each other; all three are meant to be virtuous. And Ganondorf got the ToP in OoT because it was the quality "he most believed in", not because he was chosen or represented power.

I'll give you fanfiction- should have used a better term to refer to his power with the Triforce of Power than "marked by Din".

It doesn't mean the Gerudo have a heritage of demonic power, though. The various demon terms applied to Ganondorf make him more likely to be the ancient demon reborn than anybody else, Gerudo or otherwise.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

It doesn't mean the Gerudo have a heritage of demonic power, though. The various demon terms applied to Ganondorf make him more likely to be the ancient demon reborn than anybody else, Gerudo or otherwise.

Oh, I agree. My point is that the Gerudo are a race living outside of Hyrule's prosperity, and according to Ganondorf in TWW, this plays a role in establishing his demonic nature. Given that the evil witches Twinrova were surrogate mothers to Ganondorf, and that the Trident was found in a Pyramid that the Gerudo worshipped, there is an awful lot connecting the Gerudo with evil.

Originally Posted by Raian

Oh, I agree. My point is that the Gerudo are a race living outside of Hyrule's prosperity, and according to Ganondorf in TWW, this plays a role in establishing his demonic nature. Given that the evil witches Twinrova were surrogate mothers to Ganondorf, and that the Trident was found in a Pyramid that the Gerudo worshipped, there is an awful lot connecting the Gerudo with evil.

Given the majority of benevolent Gerudo compared to three evil Gerudo... that same line of thought could make Zora evil based on the river Zora, who equal ocean Zora in number.

Also, the Trident is found in Zuna pyramid, not a Gerudo pyramid, although the Gerudo rever it.

The pyramid is sacred to our people.

To have a criminal such as him enter... His presence stains its holy ground.

None who enter the pyramids or the temple have ever returned. They are tombs.

The pyramid is sacred to the Gerudo because it's the main monument of the tombs, not because it holds the Trident. The Gerudo consider Ganondorf to be disgustingly evil, and the pyramid represents the antithesis of that to them.

Gerudo are as capable of good and evil as any other race, but I don't think they lean more towards evil.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

Also, the Trident is found in Zuna pyramid, not a Gerudo pyramid, although the Gerudo rever it.

The pyramid is sacred to the Gerudo because it's the main monument of the tombs, not because it holds the Trident.

Gerudo are as capable of good and evil as any other race, but I don't think they lean more towards evil.

Ahem, the Egyptian slaves built pyramids... for themselves?

The Zuna do not worship their Pyramid; the Gerudo do. That does not make sense unless the Pyramid was built for the Gerudo to worship their dead. Given the honour system amongst the Gerudo and their nature as warriors, they would not have had the skills to build their own tombs. Hence, the Zuna's ancestors would have had to have built the pyramids, either as an exchange for money or by force.

If the tombs belong to the Gerudo, then the Trident would surely have been placed there by the Gerudo as well. And remember, just because the modern Gerudo are kind, this does not mean that their ancestors weren't evil. Remember Twinrova.

Originally Posted by Raian

Ahem, the Egyptian slaves built pyramids... for themselves?

The Zuna do not worship their Pyramid; the Gerudo do. That does not make sense unless the Pyramid was built for the Gerudo to worship their dead. Given the honour system amongst the Gerudo and their nature as warriors, they would not have had the skills to build their own tombs. Hence, the Zuna's ancestors would have had to have built the pyramids, either as an exchange for money or by force.

If the tombs belong to the Gerudo, then the Trident would surely have been placed there by the Gerudo as well. And remember, just because the modern Gerudo are kind, this does not mean that their ancestors weren't evil. Remember Twinrova.

I see your argument. But personally, I hate this idea that the Gerudo are "more evil" simply because of the actions of a few. One would not argue that all Ancient Egyptians were evil due to the methods of how the pyramids were built.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

I see your argument. But personally, I hate this idea that the Gerudo are "more evil" simply because of the actions of a few. One would not argue that all Ancient Egyptians were evil due to the methods of how the pyramids were built.

It's not about the tribe being evil, but their conditions being a breeding ground for evil. If the suffering of the tribe created Ganondorf's malevolence, then why not Twinrova or any other number of Gerudo?

Ganondorf did not invent evil, or evil magic. Zelda clearly recognizes him as possessing it, and such power is suggested to have played a huge role in Hyrule's history. The question is why this power is commonly related to the Gerudo, and why Hyrule's greatest villain emerged from that tribe.

There is only one Ganondorf in the entirety of the Zelda canon- every Ganon and Ganondorf is the same man.

Ancient Demon Reborn means nothing then? No. There are two Ganon/dorfs in the series in FSA Ganondorf is a RE-INCARNATION.

Certainly with all that demonic power in their heritage, there are likely more of them.

OMFG Lex. In OoT we know are told that only one MALE Gerudo is born every one Hundred years.

Demon=/=Demoness.

I hate this idea that the Gerudo are "more evil" simply because of the actions of a few.

Ganondorf is banned form his city in FSA. IMO Gerudo =/= evil if they ban evil.

The question is why this power is commonly related to the Gerudo, and why Hyrule's greatest villain emerged from that tribe.

In my opinion the faher of the male Gerudo has to be the old one and that's why there are so many fe-male Gerudo. If the father posseses magic it's only likely the son does aswell.