Terminian Hell, Hyrulian underworld?

In Hylian Dan's thread; The Stone Tower Of Babel, Why Termina Was Doomed, something that was explained in that thread intrigued me. Im not trying to claim any ideas here as my own. As far as I know, this hasnt been discussed before - but it is an easy conclusion to come to.

Quoted from Hylian Dan
The ancient ones who built the Stone Tower were blaspheming the goddesses of the Triforce. Their plan seems to have been to open a portal in the sky that would lead them to heaven. But the goddesses would not allow this to happen, and they would not let this evil go unpunished. So they flipped the universe upside down.

The architects opened the portal, but because everything had been reversed it led them to hell. And in hell there was a being that had been sealed away during a previous age, a being that had attempted to destroy the world. The architects found the mask of the demon and brought it with them. And so the goddesses punished the builders of the Stone Tower by releasing Majora into their world. That world was then called Termina because it was doomed to end. The men who had found the mask honored it by placing symbols of it in all the temples, as well as in the desert realm where they had found it (Twinmold's lair).

After playing through The Shadow Temple I noticed similarities in the boss room entrances, in comparison to the stone tower. The Shadow temple and the Stone Tower both had a circular drop entrance into their respective boss rooms. The Terminian 'Portal' and the shadow temple equlivant are essentially an identical boss entrance. In the quoted parts above, Hylian Dan presents a convincing case that Twinmolds lair is Terminian Hell. So Hyrule, being in a sense 'parallel' to Majoras Mask, would have a simlair hell or underworld entrance, wouldnt it? That was the first aspect that led me to believe that the boss room entrance (hole) in the Shadow temple could perhaps be an entrance to the underworld of Hyrule. Or its 'Hell'. After this, I went for a bit of Quote hunting. First I found this:

If you want to see a ferry to the other world, come here

That quote was near an entrance to an alcove where you could see the ferry that leads to the latter part of the temple. Notice the 'Other world' reference.
Additionally, the 'ferry to the other world' obviously refers to mythology - the crossing of the river Styx to reach the world of the dead.

Apart from that information, the general look and feel of the Shadow temple indicated that it had a distinct 'underworld' theme. The 'Grim reaper' spinner scythes indicate a definate theme of death. The skull pattern on the walls, the horrible skull statues (that you throw a bomb into to blow up) and especially sheiks reference to the shadow temple, as the 'house of the dead'.

I feel that the shadow temple Guarding the entrance to the underworld (much as the temple of time guards the sacred realm), gives reason for the Sheikiah to be involved with the shadow temple in the way that they were. Protectors of the shadow temple, much as The Hylian Royal family protected the entrance to the Temple Of Time (carrying the legend of the Ocarina Of Time and the spiritual stones). After all, the Sheikiah were the shadows of the Hylians. It makes sense that they would be given such a duty. I would like to stress similarities between the Temple Of Time guarding the sacred realm and The Shadow Temple Guarding the Hyrulian underworld I am proposing.

I hope I have approached this in the correct way. These Ideas have probably been circulating a while - Im just attempting to present them. Tell me your opinions, problems ect.

I think this fits better in the Theorizing section.

The idea of the Shadow Temple being the entrance to the Hyrulean Underworld is intriguing. I would say underworld instead of hell, because of the Greek reference, and the fact the Shadow Temple is located in a graveyard where royals are buried. I would compare it to the Greek underworld, which includes what modern Westerners would call a heaven and hell.

These include: 1. The great pit of Tartarus, which was originally the exclusive prison of the old Titan gods, but which later came to mean the dungeon home of the damned souls ; 2. The land of the dead ruled by the god Hades, which is variously called the house or domain of Hades (domos Aidao), Hades, Erebus, the Asphodel Fields, Stygia and Acherontia ; 3. The Islands of the Blessed or Elysian Islands ruled by Cronus, where the great heroes of myth resided after death ; 4. The Elysian Fields ruled by Rhadamanthys, where the virtuous dead and initiates in the ancient Mysteries were sent to dwell.

It may be a symbolic entrance to the underworld, rather than a literal one; in Twilight Princess, the Shadow Temple isn't there anymore; it has been replaced with the Royal Zora Graveyard, where King Zora and Queen Rutela are buried.

Hyruleans do believe in an underworld as well, to help your point.

The criminals who were sentenced to death were sent directly to the underworld
by a cursed mirror that was kept in the prison...

Auru mentions the underworld in Twilight Princess. Although the criminals are actually sent to the Twilight Realm, Auru is unaware of this fact, and mentions a specific underworld.

It may be a symbolic entrance to the underworld, rather than a literal one

Very true, that could well be the case, but if so, would the whole 'ferry to the other world' and similair really be just ceremonial? If so, why? why does the shadow temple have to represent in such a fashion? The Shadow temple is without a doubt different to the other temples (the elemental ones especially) that just seem to house the ability to pray to the respecivte elemental spirits, and to 'give the awakening call' to the sages. The shadow temple always seemed to Indicate that it had more. This quote from the 'talking walls' in the shadow temple represents that quite sufficiently:

Shadow Temple... Here is Gathered Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred...

It indicates something deeper. Needless to say this Quote has eaten away at me.

it has been replaced with the Royal Zora Graveyard, where King Zora and Queen Rutela are buried.

But many believe that the Hidden Village is the Old Kakariko from Ocarina Of Time. Its last resident, Impaz, seems to be an indication of this.

I believe that the concept of an 'underworld' in the shadow temple helps to explain the temples conflicting elements. On one side, we have the good element of shadow; the powers of the shadow sage and the temple itself to awaken the sage. On the other side we have dark history (proven in the above quote) and horrible power and terror contained within the temple. Surely, this longlasting power (proven by that quote to be before the temple was 'corrupted') suggests conflicting elements within the temple? and with hints at an 'underworld' (comparisions with the stone tower in majoras mask, and references to mythology) the idea surely matches the description.

Originally Posted by Blue fire

Very true, that could well be the case, but if so, would the whole 'ferry to the other world' and similair really be just ceremonial? If so, why? why does the shadow temple have to represent in such a fashion?

Perhaps it was a Sheikah ceremony representing the "other world" of shadows and illusions (the Greek underworld is rife with illusions) that initiated young Sheikah; obviously, you couldn't kill them, but it was a symbolic death of the immature self.

Originally Posted by Blue fire

But many believe that the Hidden Village is the Old Kakariko from Ocarina Of Time. Its last resident, Impaz, seems to be an indication of this.

A perfectly valid point. I think that the Hidden Village is the original Kakariko (hence the billboard stating "Welcome to Old Kakariko!", a distinction the Sheikah probably made more than anyone else), and the one at the base of Death Mountain was another, more public home of the Sheikah for their affairs with the rest of Hyrule. Your mileage may vary.

Nice theory. I used to think of the Shadow Temple that way, as a path to the netherworld guarded by the Sheikah, but I don't think I noticed the River Styx connection. I think the idea makes plenty of sense, and is probably the intent behind the design of the dungeon.

Maybe the Shadow Temple was the inspiration for the Stone Tower Temple. Both dungeons seem to serve as paths to the next world, and one of the purposes of Majora's Mask was to properly execute many of the concepts that couldn't be fleshed out in Ocarina of Time.

By the way, I might be able to effectively prove the Tower of Babel theory soon with another related Majora's Mask theory. There's a huge amount of convincing evidence for this one, and it should clear up the bulk of the game's mystery.

I've always thought that the Shadow Temple was supposed to be some sort of Hylian underworld. The rooms are made of skulls after all. There was also a giant pit in the main room said to be the "Valley of the Dead" or something. Maybe that quote gave the developers the idea to make the Ikana Valley a place of the dead? Either way, the Shadow Temple is very distinct.

I never thought that the drop into Bongo-Bongo's lair led to the underworld, but it could be. While Twinmold's lair could make you lost in the sands, Bongo-Bongo's could burn you up in the acid. But what does that make Bongo-Bongo? A creature from the Hylian underworld, or a wicked creature taking refuge in there?

One popular plotline in Japanese fantasy is that the potent emotions of the dead are preserved after the victims die (ex. "The Ring" and "The Grudge").

TP's Arbiter's Grounds were said to have preserved the malice of the criminals who were executed there, and the Shadow Temple was said to have buried the "bloody history and hatred of Hyrule". This does not suggest connections to the underworld, but potent memories of evil in the living world.

So can this be applied to the Garo in Termina? Possibly, I am merely bringing forth the concept.

Actually, a clearer idea of the afterlife in Zelda would be interesting to find. I always wondered what they believed. Their funerals could be intriguing things to look into. For instance, could the Gorons in Hyrule possibly cremate their dead?

Plus, this stuff could be tied to Campbell's theories on the "Hero with a Thousand Faces". That could also bear some uffish thought.

Please don't revive threads that have been dead for more than a month.

Unless anyone can see a concrete reason otherwise, *closed*