The Royal Crest & The Timeline

Alternatively titled, "The Amazing Disappearing Bird".

The Hylian Royal Crest is the symbol of the Hylian Royal Family, and therefore, of Hyrule. Zelda usually wears an ornate tabard bearing it. I am going to take that crest and apply it as a timeline placement tool. I hesitate to call it a theory, but it does apply to timeline theorizing, affecting the placement of The Minish Cap and the usually timeline versatile Oracles.

Let's begin with going through the various crest designs, starting from Ocarina of Time and through the timeline this application suggests.

In Ocarina of Time, Zelda's crest is hugely ornate. The bird is teal, the background is deep purple, and it bears the Sheikah symbol.

In The Wind Waker, there is a massive overhaul. The background has significantly paled, the bird has moved above the Triforce, and there are two stylized octorok-like figures apparently holding up a platform for the Triforce.

In The Minish Cap, the design is identical. The colors are brighter, but this can be attributed to Tetra's royal clothing probably being ancient.

In Four Swords, the design has changed yet again. Its background is blue, the red is more pronounced, the red triangles are introduced, and a red "fleur de lys"-like crescent symbol is added, with two additional crescents. The bird disappears entirely, its only remains the "fleur de lys" of crescents.Not part of the design, but also significant is the addition of the cape, which occurs in the games after.

In the Oracles, the design is very similar. The middle of the "fleur de lys" has moved up, the crescents moved closer together, and the triangles moved further apart.

In A Link to the Past, the design has changed significantly again. The background is now pink, the red and gold attributes have switched colors, and a tiny dark symbol is added below the Triforce, almost like Zelda's Sheikah symbol.

I'd like to draw your attention to the crests of The Wind Waker and The Minish Cap. They are absolutely identical. The only other time identical crests have occurred, the games have occurred right after each other (Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure; the crest is never shown in Four Swords Adventure), but the Zeldas are so similar the crest is presumably the same) This suggests they are scarcely a few generations removed from each other, which means these two Zeldas (and therefore titles) must be situated to each other in the timeline; The Wind Waker (and Phantom Hourglass, as Tetra is the royal in both of them) and The Minish Cap. This means The Minish Cap cannot come first in the timeline; the more stylized crest of Tetra's could never evolve into the elaborate design of Zelda I (from Ocarina of Time), including the addition of the Sheikah symbol and the eight golden squares. I would suggest that The Minish Cap comes directly after Phantom Hourglass, as the first game set in New Hyrule. This Zelda is Tetra's descendant, using the recovered crest.

Some of you may brush this off as artistic similarity. That is incorrect.

Four Swords was released before The Minish Cap, and had the same art style. The Zelda of Four Swords, bore a very different crest. Even within the same artistic style, different crests exist.

Speaking of Four Swords, its crest is very similar to the crest found on the Oracles' Zelda. The stripe has simply migrated. This suggests that the earliest Oracles can be placed is straight after the entire Four Swords saga. However, the crest of A Link to the Past is hugely different. I doubt it could ever "devolve" back into crest designs of Four Swords and the Oracles. I would place it after Four Swords Adventure and before A Link to the Past.

In conclusion... The Minish Cap must come after The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, and I mean directly after. It cannot be first. The Oracles should be placed after Four Swords Adventure and before A Link to the Past.

Your thoughts?

I don't know if you were only analyzing certain games but you left out Twilight Princess. It may or may not be similar to some of these.

Here is a picture of our dear Princess Zelda.
http://www.ganonstower.com/zeldagcn2/offart8.jpg

It has the bird yet again with the triforce and an odd series of vines/plants flowing at the bottom. The color scheme involves a blue background with green vines and something purple surrounding a golden triforce.

The Hyrule crest (what I have always recognised as the Hyrule Phoenix) is in my opinion, something that has developed over the games' releases, not over the timeline. The bird has become more distinct since the release of Ocarina on Time.

Two things you didn't know:

1) There is a crest of the bird with the Triforce as its head. I remember first seeing it on the Limited Edition Zelda GBA SP, and vaguely in later Zelda games, including Twilight Princess, if I remember correctly.

2) There is an evil version of the crest that looks more demonic. It appears on the Knight's Crests in TWW and on the Hylian Adventure Select screen in FSA.

Raian wasn't it you who told us to examine different elements of the game?
I find this to be a perfect way of doing so.

Just to note. Every single Zelda here wears the same golden tiara crown with the red ruby and side things flicking/pointing down...except! Zelda in TP has a blue saphire and the FSA and ALttP Princesses have the side things flicking upwards. Hmmm very similar.

Oh and each of them bear a similar golden belt as well as the golden thing that goes just above the cleavage... it's not quite a necklace though. And half of them seem to bear some sort of golden shoulder plating or armor.

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Raian wasn't it you who told us to examine different elements of the game? I find this to be a perfect way of doing so.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean I personally have to agree that this has timeline relevance. I made my contribution nonetheless.

I don't think Zelda's dress decoration should be used as having any timeline relevance. It's a very small thing that Nintendo changes when they feel they have a better design for it, and more than likely has no significance. Nice theeory all the same.

Well, I already believed that the Minish Cap came after the Wind Waker; this just gives that theory more credence. OoA/OoS seems workable as well.

I think that Eralk Fang's method of comparing the garb of Princess Zeldas throghout the timeline is a fine idea because realisticly, the traditional garb of the royal family would slowly change over time as it would with real royal families, but certain elements would remain constant. From this, you can get a general idea of where on the timeline the games should be placed.

Originally Posted by Raian

1) There is a crest of the bird with the Triforce as its head. I remember first seeing it on the Limited Edition Zelda GBA SP, and vaguely in later Zelda games, including Twilight Princess, if I remember correctly.

It's on the top of the page if you have the green theme on for these forums.

http://vnunl.typepad.com/photos/unca...d/triforce.jpg

That's what you're talking about right? Yeah, that thing is all over the place.

http://www.gametab.com/images/ss/wii/5387/box-l.jpg

I think I was looking for it recently and I saw it in Wind Waker. Pretty sure it was in a boss room, either the earth or wind temple. It's probably in tons of places but I just can't think of them.

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I don't know if you were only analyzing certain games but you left out Twilight Princess. It may or may not be similar to some of these.

I excluded Twilight Princess because I was focusing on the adult timeline.

Originally Posted by Raian

The Hyrule crest (what I have always recognised as the Hyrule Phoenix) is in my opinion, something that has developed over the games' releases, not over the timeline. The bird has become more distinct since the release of Ocarina on Time.

All these crests I show were developed after Ocarina of Time, even the crest from A Link to the Past; the GBA remake included new character art, including Zelda in her royal gown.

Originally Posted by Raian

1) There is a crest of the bird with the Triforce as its head. I remember first seeing it on the Limited Edition Zelda GBA SP, and vaguely in later Zelda games, including Twilight Princess, if I remember correctly.

2) There is an evil version of the crest that looks more demonic. It appears on the Knight's Crests in TWW and on the Hylian Adventure Select screen in FSA.

I see where you're coming from, but they are not the entire Royal Hylian Crest; The Minish Cap Zelda is holding aloft a shield with a very different crest. I quite imagine they're a bit of shorthand. Compare Americans using the eagle; they rarely depict the eagle with the olive branches and the arrows in popular culture, but the eagle remains. The most important part of the crest is the Triforce and the bird that symbolizes Hyrule.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

I excluded Twilight Princess because I was focusing on the adult timeline.

When doing things like this Eralk Fang, you must try and construct a completely new timeline based solely on the garb. For this reason, to exclude Twilight Princess would be to exclude the chance that tMC and TP Zelda have either the same or different dresses. What would you have said about the placement of tMC if TP and tMC Zelda did have completely identical gowns?

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

I see where you're coming from, but they are not the entire Royal Hylian Crest; The Minish Cap Zelda is holding aloft a shield with a very different crest. I quite imagine they're a bit of shorthand. Compare Americans using the eagle; they rarely depict the eagle with the olive branches and the arrows in popular culture, but the eagle remains. The most important part of the crest is the Triforce and the bird that symbolizes Hyrule.

Who says the crest is specifically royal, just because Zelda wears it? It appears outside of Zelda's dress on various occasions. I agree that the bird and Triforce represent Hyrule, but I can't see any rules about who wears it or how it changes. It is simply a changing symbol.

You pointed out different versions of the crest in your first post, and I referred you to two versions that you had not known about it. I wasn't attacking any theory you may have had, but simply providing you with extra information. The Minish Cap GBA symbol was the full crest, and the TWW/FSA symbol was an evil version of the crest. That is all I said.

Originally Posted by Raian

I don't understand what you're saying. The crest that I am referring to is the bird. One image of the bird has the Triforce for a head, and another shows a demonic bird instead of a normal one. That is all I am saying.

Can you please provide the links to these images?
I don't know what the demonic symbol of it is and I'm sure the other is at the top of the green skin.

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Can you please provide the links to these images?
I don't know what the demonic symbol of it is and I'm sure the other is at the top of the green skin.

Here's the Minish Cap GBA crest: http://www.zeldaelements.net/games_m...ing/eu_gba.jpg

The demonic crest is much harder to find on the internet. This screenshot has the crest around the Darknut's waist, but the head is concealed by his sword, unfortunately. Simply pull out a Knight's Crest in TWW or go to the Hyrulian Adventure Select screen on FSA to see the crest properly.

The Hylia Media Gallery - Enemies/darknut

Originally Posted by Raian

The demonic crest is much harder to find on the internet. This screenshot has the crest around the Darknut's waist, but the head is concealed by his sword, unfortunately. Simply pull out a Knight's Crest in TWW or go to the Hyrulian Adventure Select screen on FSA to see the crest properly.

The Hylia Media Gallery - Enemies/darknut

Ah yes thanks Raian, I really had no idea what you were talking about.

That doesn't seem to be the Hylian royal crest but rather Ganon's own version most likely inspired by the nefarious Helmorac King. It is a huge dark bird with thick wings afterall and the darknuts are governed by Ganon.

Here is a much clearer version....
http://www.gamehiker.com/gallery/alb...nightcrest.jpg

^
Or; it could symbolize the fall of the Hyrule Phoenix, which would be his ultimate goal: destroy hyrule as we know it and make it his own twisted kingdom.

Originally Posted by The Black Knight

When doing things like this Eralk Fang, you must try and construct a completely new timeline based solely on the garb. For this reason, to exclude Twilight Princess would be to exclude the chance that tMC and TP Zelda have either the same or different dresses. What would you have said about the placement of tMC if TP and tMC Zelda did have completely identical gowns?

I would have certainly mentioned it, but it adds nothing to the application. Twilight Princess is parallel to The Wind Waker on the timelines- therefore, while Twilight Princess still has an elaborate design with a defined bird, Tetra's crest is simplified and more nautical. It simply does not impact the adult timeline whatsoever, other than showing us what the crest would be like without the Flood.

I would agree that Ganondorf's bird is a Helmaroc; its head has an almost crescent design, possibly denoting the Helmaroc's helm.