(Revised a bit) Midna's Ancestry. [Long read, some spoilers] Theories of Her Race.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

And Agahnim, while it is never confirmed, seems to be set up to be a Zuna. Pale skin color, same style of clothing...

So what you're saying is that Agahnim, a character released in 1991, was intended to be part of a little-referenced tribe released in 2005? Wouldn't it more likely that the Zuna were designed on Agahnim's appearance?

Originally Posted by Raian

So what you're saying is that Agahnim, a character released in 1991, was intended to be part of a little-referenced tribe released in 2005? Wouldn't it more likely that the Zuna were designed on Agahnim's appearance?

That's what I meant; they seemed designed to give him a specific race. Point is, Agahnim is not a Sheikah. I have no idea where this idea that all Sheikah are pale came from; Impa's quite tan, Fanadi spends her days inside so she would be a little paler, and Impaz wasn't particularly one way or another. Even Zelda makes herself tan when she disguises herself as Sheik.

She was, in fact tan. Sheik is very tan, and, yes, Impa has red eyes in earlier games... Using genetics we can logically that red eyes are a dominant trait among the sheikah, much like brown eyes and hair among the middle eastern people, and anything otherwise is credited to genetic disorders or extremely unlikely chances. That's why I think the shaman's family isn't Sheikah. It is strange they have a connection to them. > also have more proof on the not evil-ness of the eye, but since I'm typing from a Wii, I'll have to explain later.
Bye!
Sahaqiel

Originally Posted by Twili Knight

She was, in fact tan. Sheik is very tan, and, yes, Impa has red eyes in earlier games... Using genetics we can logically that red eyes are a dominant trait among the sheikah, much like brown eyes and hair among the middle eastern people, and anything otherwise is credited to genetic disorders or extremely unlikely chances. That's why I think the shaman's family isn't Sheikah. It is strange they have a connection to them. > also have more proof on the not evil-ness of the eye, but since I'm typing from a Wii, I'll have to explain later.
Bye!
Sahaqiel

Just because it's a dominant trait, doesn't mean not having it is a genetic disorder; recessive traits do show through every once in a while. I imagine a red-eyed, pale-haired, tan Sheikah is the visual stereotype of a Sheikah, but among real Sheikah, it just happens to be dominant. I'm trying to find an image of Impaz; she as good as says she's Sheikah (her family's worked for the Royal Family for ages), and I cannot remember if she had red eyes.

The Shaman's daughter bears the Sheikah eye on her clothing, and Renado and the Impa of Ocarina of Time share facial features. While I don't really have an opinion on their ethnicity, you have to take into account there's plenty of time for a Sheikah line to become dark of hair and eyes.

Impa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not quality evidence, but it'll do for now.

In Twilight Princess, a woman named Impaz lives in the Hidden Village, which is implied to be the residence of the remnants of the Shiekah tribe. Impaz also says that she is named for her ancestor who founded the village (most likely Impa from Ocarina of Time).

Once again, Impaz is depicted as a small, elderly woman with grey-white hair and red eyes, and seems to be the last survivor of the Sheikah clan.

Thank you for finding that for me.

I think while red eyes are a definite marker for the Sheikah along with another piece of evidence, a brown-eyed Sheikah is completely possible.

Why do the Sheikah have to be a "bad" race to try and take over the Sacred Realm?

Has anyone realised that TP takes place in child-link ending? It takes place after Link goes back in time to recover and enjoy the six years that he lost.

We don't know what he did in the time after that, but we do know for fact that he had some sort of relationship with Zelda, he must have gotten Epona somehow and he takes the Ocarina of Time with him.

TP also proves that when Ganondorf was sealed in the future, he did not dissapear from Hyrule when Link returned to the past.

The fact that Link became friends with Zelda and the fact that Ganondorf was trialed for trying to find the Sacred Realm could also mean that Zelda had much influence over the descision in excecuting Ganondorf for his crimes.

This being said, Ganondorf and his band of theives could have been in league with the "interlopers who excelled at shadow magic". He also gained the ToP. How? He obtained it whilst the interlopers found the Sacred Realm? It's a mystery. However, while Ganondorf is speaking to Midna at the end of TP says, "Your people have long amused me" - This could mean that Midna's ancestors were: Sheikah, possibly possesed Sheikah, Gerudo or Hylian.

The fact that the interlopers just 'suddenly appeared', could be because they had been in hiding for a long time as Impa and Zelda were.

I also see much resemblance in the helmet's Zant and Midna wear in comparison to the Sheikah symbols. But I don't think there is enough evidence to fully prove that the Twili are the Sheikah, just because of that.

Look at Ganondorf's head-dress. Now look at Midna's (true form) head-dress. There is a massive similarity.

Whoever Midna's ancestors were it is clear that they once lived in Hyrule.

__________________


I also think it is a shame that Nintendo are making us work all this out for ourselves. Sure, it's enjoyable to work it out for ourselves. But majority of the people that will buy and play TP won't work it out for themselves.

Nintendo should have properly and clearly explained everything in a way that they didn't have to go into explaining what happened in OOT and all that. It could have made a much better storyline and made a better impact to the audience that play it.

i am starting to think that the Twili either descended from a mix of races such as sheikah, gerudo, hylian, and/or zuna. either that or they are descended from an unknown race.
I definately think that aganhim, veran, and vaati are all the same race though.

Originally Posted by Wolflink12

i am starting to think that the Twili either descended from a mix of races such as sheikah, gerudo, hylian, and/or zuna. either that or they are descended from an unknown race.

I quite concur, but I think Zuna are probably a race native to New Hyrule.

Originally Posted by Wolflink12

I definately think that aganhim, veran, and vaati are all the same race though.

Vaati is Minish, however; his ethnicity is confirmed in The Minish Cap. So unless Aganhim and Veran are similarly transformed Minish...

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

Vaati is Minish, however; his ethnicity is confirmed in The Minish Cap. So unless Aganhim and Veran are similarly transformed Minish...

either that or vaati transformed himself into a minish to steal the cap, note how it was ezlo who told link about vaati's past, so he might not have known about vaati not being a picori.

That foul Vaati! What could he be scheming now? Link... I feel I owe you an explanation of what has happened. You see, Vaati and I are both Minish. I was once a famous sage and a renowned Minish craftsman. Vaati was only a boy when I took him on as my apprentice. But...he became enchanted by the wickedness in the hearts of men.

Vaati didn't go under Ezlo's tutelage just to get the cap. He became his apprentice at a very young age, typically of most apprenticeships.

I find my old master...

Vaati wouldn't refer to Ezlo as his "old master" if he had only been his apprentice for the cap; the theft occurred just before the opening of The Minish Cap. This insinuates Vaati's apprenticeship did indeed start at an early age, long before Vaati could do any magic (remember, it was only the cap that gave him power in The Minish Cap).

OH. I did mention new evidence that supports the eye not representing evil. The symbol, without the tear, is above the Shaman's door. If it was up there to represent how positively evil they were, then they wouldn't be good, respectable people. They could have put it up as a kind of protection superstition, but one of those couldn't have arrived at the idea evil brings good fortune.
Good day to you all,
Twili Knight - A.K.A. Sahaqiel

Originally Posted by Wolflink12

i am starting to think that the Twili either descended from a mix of races such as sheikah, gerudo, hylian, and/or zuna. either that or they are descended from an unknown race.
I definately think that aganhim, veran, and vaati are all the same race though.

Agenahim and Veran could be, but Vaati is a minish! He 2 inches tall, how can he be related to normal sized people.

Sorry Veteran (and Onox) are not mixed races.

They were summoned from the dark world or whatever to do Kume and kotake's buisness.

Pinecove, only Onox was summoned from the Dark Realm. Veran never states anything about being summoned from the Dark Realm. It is interesting to note that her true form is a green imp, while her assumed form is a normal size woman; a contrast to Midna's true form of a normal Twili, and her assumed form of an imp.

Originally Posted by Twili Knight

OH. I did mention new evidence that supports the eye not representing evil. The symbol, without the tear, is above the Shaman's door. If it was up there to represent how positively evil they were, then they wouldn't be good, respectable people. They could have put it up as a kind of protection superstition, but one of those couldn't have arrived at the idea evil brings good fortune.

I took a look at that symbol for myself. At first, I thought you were right, but closer inspection with the Hawkeye showed me that it is not simply the Eye. The center of the symbol, where the pupil should be, depicts a bird.

The shape of the symbol, and the triangular markings, are definitely those that we see on the Evil Eye symbol, but the bird could represent something entirely different. Likely it is a symbol of welcome or good fortune, like you said.

In fact, the bird appears to be situated in front of a black spot, which could perhaps represent the pupil. Maybe the bird is warding against evil by blocking the vision of the eye.

Originally Posted by Eralk Fang

Pinecove, only Onox was summoned from the Dark Realm. Veran never states anything about being summoned from the Dark Realm. It is interesting to note that her true form is a green imp, while her assumed form is a normal size woman; a contrast to Midna's true form of a normal Twili, and her assumed form of an imp.

I remember Veran say quite clearly that she was forced to reveal her true form after being driven out of Ambi's body. Like Onox, Veran is a monster from the Dark World.

I remember Veran say quite clearly that she was forced to reveal her true form after being driven out of Ambi's body. Like Onox, Veran is a monster from the Dark World.

Wait! Wait! I know Onox says it for certain but ... Heck I'll look it up in a text dump.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Wait! Wait! I know Onox says it for certain but ... Heck I'll look it up in a text dump.

Maybe Veran didn't refer to the Dark World, but she certainly said that she would show Link her "true form" by transforming.

Veran's talent is possession; she despises showing her original form (almost like how Midna despises her imp form).

I hoped to avoid revealing this vile shape...

Onox says he is from the Dark Realm.

Gwah hah hah! I was summoned from the Dark Realm by Twinrova.See my true form! Feel the might of a dark dragon!

Veran's only connection with the Dark Realm (in text) is that Twinrova mentions she is spreading the reach of the Dark Realm, which Twinrova is also doing; and Twinrova is from Hyrule.

The obvious connection, of course, is that Veran is also from the Dark Realm, paralleling Onox, but no one ever states that she is; we just assume. It's completely possible she's a Labrynnan sorceress recruited by Twinrova, or any number of other things...

I think it would be quite an interesting retcon for Veran to be Twili; I wrote up a theory on that.

Yes, but the Dark Realm is different than the Twilight Realm. The Twilight Realm is somewhat of a limbo.
Returning from the dead.
Sahaqiel