Does Ganondorf Really Lose the ToP at the end of Twilight Princess?

OK...I expect that by now, we are all familiar with the ending of Twilight Princess and the confusion it creates in regards to timeline theorizing, what with Ganondorf apparently dying and all. Much is left unclear, conveniently enough (just like in Ocarina of Time).

I now pose this question to you all: If Ganondorf is indeed slain at the end of the game because the Triforce of Power leaves him, why wasn't this the case in Ocarina of Time? Couldn't have Link slain him at the end of that game as well, instead of the sages having to seal him into the Sacred Realm? The clear implication was that Ganondorf is immortal while he possesses the ToP. It seemed to be clear then that the Triforce of Power was not simply going to desert Ganondorf like a fickle woman. So why then does it leave him in Twilight Princess? It does not compute.

Another thing...if Link really did somehow mange to "beat the triforce" out of Ganondorf...where the hell did the Triforce of Power go? One would think that, having slain Ganondorf and the other two pieces being present in Link and Zelda, the Triforce would recombine once again. This did not happen. Why...?

I never had the idea for a second that the Triforce of Power actually left Ganondorf at the end of Twilight Princess... wouldnt it have been more obvious?

I think this has been discussed before...almsot the same title as well. I think I said that it was symbolic...and yeah the triforce leaves him. But he could easily be summoned back again. Of course...this is the TP Ganondorf that never really learned how to control his power like the WW one...so it's a tough move here.

You presume Link won because the ToP left Ganondorf. No.

The ToP left Ganondorf as a consequence of Link killing him, not as a cause. Before attaining the power of the ToP, the Sages struck a blade of light into his chest, which left a mortal wound. When Link struck that wound with the blade of evil's bane, Ganondorf's power of Darkness failed him, and thus did the ToP.

Wait, what are you guys talking about? The ToP had nothing to do with Ganondorf's death. Zant is the one who killed him!!

He is still going when we cut to see Zant snapping his neck. Then Ganondorf is stopped dead in his tracks. This is because they were linked. Remember "What you desire I will desire also"? That means Zant's suicide is homicide. I guess acting like the Triforce here was a stupid move.

How can Zant commit suicide anyway? He's dead... I mean, I suppose his spirit could have lived on, still being linked to Ganondorf, but how does a spirit commit suicide? Especially since they were bound by the ToP. However, the ToP left Ganondorf before Zant snapped his neck... so how does that work? It's all a bit weird, if you ask me.

I see no physical golden triangle leaving his body, only a glowing mark suddenly going dark. Ergo, there's no reason as of yet to assume he's lost the thing.

I believe the ToP is still inside him. The Master Sword just shut it down. So it goes dormant inside Ganondorf, and he dies.

Originally Posted by Daphnes

I believe the ToP is still inside him. The Master Sword just shut it down. So it goes dormant inside Ganondorf, and he dies.

What he said. If it left him we would have seen something. I'm pretty sure it just stops working, but it's still physically with him.

Originally Posted by lordandyofx

What he said. If it left him we would have seen something. I'm pretty sure it just stops working, but it's still physically with him.

Perhaps, as many people have postulated, Ganondorf really DOES go back to his flaming head form somewhere?

1) We do not have enough evidence to draw any conclusions from the disappearance of the Triforce mark on Ganondorf's hand. The situation where someone dies while possessing a piece of the Triforce has never been encountered before, so we are simply speculating now.

As soon as we come to a conclusion, the question becomes "why?". Why did the ToP stay within Ganondorf when he died? Why did the Triforce disappear when Ganondorf died? There are no answers.


2) Zant did not break his own neck. I mean, be serious here. The man wanted power more than anything; he isn't going to kill his only chance for power by committing suicide.

After his death at Midna's hands, Zant's spirit was sustained by Ganondorf's magic, waiting for Ganondorf to revive him (as he said himself). The blade of evil's bane destroyed Ganondorf's magic (the power of Darkness), and thus destroyed Zant's sustennance. Zant was killed because Ganondorf was killed.

Originally Posted by Raian

Zant did not break his own neck. I mean, be serious here. The man wanted power more than anything; he isn't going to kill his only chance for power by committing suicide.

After his death at Midna's hands, Zant's spirit was sustained by Ganondorf's magic, waiting for Ganondorf to revive him (as he said himself). The blade of evil's bane destroyed Ganondorf's magic (the power of Darkness), and thus destroyed Zant's sustennance. Zant was killed because Ganondorf was killed.

Then why do they show him snapping his neck with an air of intent before Ganondorf stops dead in his tracks? It does not cohere unless it was meant to illustrate a form of cause and effect. Since it was shown before the G-dude died, I thought it was the cause for his death.

I think that you are forgetting that Zant is insane, and as such is going by his own rules for logic. From his perspective, Ganondorf showed weakness by being unable to defeat Link. If his own deity could not handle this, then he was no god of power. In a manner akin to King Bulblin, he switched sides (though not necessarily to Link's side). There was no concept of "live to fight another day" in his head. Such a thing would be unendurable. Therefore, he took advantage of a clause in his oral contract and desired death, thus taking Ganondorf down with him.

Originally Posted by Raian

2) Zant did not break his own neck. I mean, be serious here. The man wanted power more than anything; he isn't going to kill his only chance for power by committing suicide.

After his death at Midna's hands, Zant's spirit was sustained by Ganondorf's magic, waiting for Ganondorf to revive him (as he said himself). The blade of evil's bane destroyed Ganondorf's magic (the power of Darkness), and thus destroyed Zant's sustennance. Zant was killed because Ganondorf was killed.

We can deduce just as much from number 1) as we can from number 2)... nothing but speculation. You are only looking at number 2) from one perspective. Imagine this:

Zant was under the impression that he would be revived by his master right after dying. But no, Ganondorf did not revive him and so Zant was forced to exist somewhere between life and death waiting while his master had ample time to revive him. Seeing as how Zant gets really mad over anything where he gets cheated I would assume that Zant killed himself so that his master would die as well... essentially revenge. "You aren't going to revive me so we're going down together!" lol.

Of course this whole subject is speculation. All we know for sure is that Zant's head tilted, the triforce of power faded and Ganondorf died.

I can understand that the timing of Zant's neck snapping would suggest that it was the cause, but the motivation just isn't there.

To explain the Sheikah symbol, many people have taken the Sheikah tribe out of context, creating stories about betrayal and evil that were never suggested by the games. I feel people are creating events/personality traits for Zant that have never been implied at all.

1) The relationship between Zant and Ganondorf was that Zant worshipped Ganondorf as a god. This is not a case of bargaining between two equals; Zant got his power from his god and used that power to fulfil his god's wishes.

2) Zant said that as long as his god was alive, his revival would be imminent. That is the key, not the "when" of the revival, but the fact that Zant cannot truly die until Ganondorf is killed. Nothing is suggested about whether Zant can manipulate Ganondorf's life, and such a suggestion would defeat the god-follower relationship that has been developed.

So in the ending, Zant is waiting to be revived, being sustained by Ganondorf's power. Ganondorf's power is destroyed by the Master Sword, which destroys the sustennance of Zant. Zant is forced into death, and this is simply symbolised by his neck breaking (how else would you depict his death?). Ganondorf, without power, dies straight afterwards. Short, sweet and effective.

Well we all already know that this isn't the last of Ganondorf...

Originally Posted by DakZhul

Well we all already know that this isn't the last of Ganondorf...

.... We know that this is the last of this Ganondorf in the child timeline. Unless the next game features a direct revival with his body etc.