Termina: Alternate Dimension or Parallel Universe?

i'm not sure about what you guys are really arguing about at the moment...
anyway, i don't care about the differences between universes/multiverses/dimensions/whatever else, although i know for a fact that for every entrance there is to termina, there is an entrance to hyrule. therefore, travelling to a different time period from either world is not possible.
unless a new completely seperate entrance to both worlds was created in the adult timeline.... but i also don't see this as possible.

anyway, i'm starting to get a random idea of the relationship between termina and hyrule.
what if the planet that hyrule is on is flat, and termina is on one side while hyrule is on the other? this would explain the scene at the start of the game when link goes through a portal that goes upside down.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

i'm not sure about what you guys are really arguing about at the moment...
anyway, i don't care about the differences between universes/multiverses/dimensions/whatever else, although i know for a fact that for every entrance there is to termina, there is an entrance to hyrule. therefore, travelling to a different time period from either world is not possible.
unless a new completely seperate entrance to both worlds was created in the adult timeline.... but i also don't see this as possible.

This doesn't have anything to do with travelling to the future or the past or whatever. And the entrance to Termina is already there in the Adult Timeline; in the Lost Woods. No new entrance needs to be created.

anyway, i'm starting to get a random idea of the relationship between termina and hyrule.
what if the planet that hyrule is on is flat, and termina is on one side while hyrule is on the other? this would explain the scene at the start of the game when link goes through a portal that goes upside down.

So, what, dual planets? That would be a possibility, but the fact that most of the people are direct genetic models of people in Hyrule, and Link doesn't fall through outer space space, but rather some kind of psychadelic space of which we really have no conception in the real world, make it unlikely. It seems more that they're parallel worlds existing in parallel universes.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

This doesn't have anything to do with travelling to the future or the past or whatever. And the entrance to Termina is already there in the Adult Timeline; in the Lost Woods. No new entrance needs to be created.

yes, but the entrance/exit always leads to the same area. if someone enters termina from the adult timeline and exits from the same entrance, they will re-enter the adult timeline. if someone enters termina from the child timeline and exits from the same entrance, they will re-enter the child timeline. what you're suggesting is that a single entrance/exit to/from termina can enter both timelines, when this makes no sense.

So, what, dual planets? That would be a possibility, but the fact that most of the people are direct genetic models of people in Hyrule, and Link doesn't fall through outer space space, but rather some kind of psychadelic space of which we really have no conception in the real world, make it unlikely. It seems more that they're parallel worlds existing in parallel universes.

i suggest that the entrance to termina isn't the hole with pictures, but rather the path that turns upside-down. termina and hyrule could be like mirror worlds in a way... except the mirror would kinda be inside out
anyway, here is some sort of... thing... to help me explain my idea

damn, i made it too small... do me a favor and enlarge it if you can
well, here is the legend:
the custard coloured area is the hole link falls through
the teal coloured area is the clock tower
the blue line is the surface of hyrule, and the arrow represents its gravity
the red line is the surface of termina, and the arrow represents its gravity
the purple lines are walkable surfaces
the brown stick figure is the dead deku thing
the green lines are doors
and finally, the sky coloured area is the area where i depict is the entrance to hyrule/termina

do you guys understand my idea? the earth is flat, hyrule occupies one side of the earth while termina occupies the other side. the sky coloured room is the actual portal to both worlds, for it defys gravity and allows travellers to walk on the surface on the different worlds.
by the way, this would explain why the king of red lions doesn't let you go off the map, and states that it is too dangerous. like in mythology and all that, this would make travellers literally fall of the world.

so, what do you guys think about this idea?

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

yes, but the entrance/exit always leads to the same area. if someone enters termina from the adult timeline and exits from the same entrance, they will re-enter the adult timeline. if someone enters termina from the child timeline and exits from the same entrance, they will re-enter the child timeline. what you're suggesting is that a single entrance/exit to/from termina can enter both timelines, when this makes no sense.

Not necessarily. I'm raising the question of where does someone from Termina go? Which Hyrule do they go to? Do they choose? Is it random? This is all necessary for trying to decide how the Legend of the Fairy got in The Wind Waker, which is in the Adult Timeline. Did someone from the Adult Timeline stumble into Termina, met Tingle, wrote about what he told him, then returned to Hyrule? Or did Tingle find his way to Hyrule and brought the Legend with him? We won't know the answer for sure, but in order for The Legend of the Fairy to be in the Adult Timeline, Termina really must have a separate timeline from either Hyrule.

i suggest that the entrance to termina isn't the hole with pictures, but rather the path that turns upside-down. termina and hyrule could be like mirror worlds in a way... except the mirror would kinda be inside out
anyway, here is some sort of... thing... to help me explain my idea

damn, i made it too small... do me a favor and enlarge it if you can
well, here is the legend:
the custard coloured area is the hole link falls through
the teal coloured area is the clock tower
the blue line is the surface of hyrule, and the arrow represents its gravity
the red line is the surface of termina, and the arrow represents its gravity
the purple lines are walkable surfaces
the brown stick figure is the dead deku thing
the green lines are doors
and finally, the sky coloured area is the area where i depict is the entrance to hyrule/termina

do you guys understand my idea? the earth is flat, hyrule occupies one side of the earth while termina occupies the other side. the sky coloured room is the actual portal to both worlds, for it defys gravity and allows travellers to walk on the surface on the different worlds.
by the way, this would explain why the king of red lions doesn't let you go off the map, and states that it is too dangerous. like in mythology and all that, this would make travellers literally fall of the world.

so, what do you guys think about this idea?

But if they existed on the same mass, they wouldn't be two worlds, they'd be one, right? Once again, it would be more likely if the people didn't look the same and if the manual didn't objectively state that they were parallel worlds. From the evidence we have, what you're suggesting really can't be the case.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Not necessarily. I'm raising the question of where does someone from Termina go? Which Hyrule do they go to? Do they choose? Is it random? This is all necessary for trying to decide how the Legend of the Fairy got in The Wind Waker, which is in the Adult Timeline. Did someone from the Adult Timeline stumble into Termina, met Tingle, wrote about what he told him, then returned to Hyrule? Or did Tingle find his way to Hyrule and brought the Legend with him? We won't know the answer for sure, but in order for The Legend of the Fairy to be in the Adult Timeline, Termina really must have a separate timeline from either Hyrule.

unless you consider that wind waker was originally intended to be in the child timeline...

But if they existed on the same mass, they wouldn't be two worlds, they'd be one, right? Once again, it would be more likely if the people didn't look the same and if the manual didn't objectively state that they were parallel worlds. From the evidence we have, what you're suggesting really can't be the case.

like i already pointed out, a "world" on the planet isn't classified as the planet, but rather, a land mass on the planet. this has already been stated in-game. think about it. if it worked this way, the worlds would literally be parallel, like lines

hyrule
gravity: vvv
o__________o (sun faces one side while moon faces the other)
|__________| (the parallel lines are the 2 faces of the planet)

gravity: ^^^
termina

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

unless you consider that wind waker was originally intended to be in the child timeline...

Except for the many references to things that happened in Hyrule after Link had awoken from his seven-year slumber. It has always been apparent from The Wind Waker that the future portion of Ocarina of Time did happen. Whether that meant a split in the timeline, that The Wind Waker was a "what if?" game, or that Link went back in time only to repeat the future that he had just left became the grounds for contention.

like i already pointed out, a "world" on the planet isn't classified as the planet, but rather, a land mass on the planet. this has already been stated in-game. think about it. if it worked this way, the worlds would literally be parallel, like lines

hyrule
gravity: vvv
o__________o (sun faces one side while moon faces the other)
|__________| (the parallel lines are the 2 faces of the planet)

gravity: ^^^
termina

That could be possible, but that's never how the term parallel world is ever applied in fiction. And it still doesn't account for people looking the same. If the people looked completely different, then this likely wouldn't be an issue, and maybe we'd decide that Link just went to a different country somehow, and yes, the timeline would have to split as well, since it's part of the same universe. But it really doesn't seem like it is part of the same universe, and that's why it doesn't seem like Termina's timeline split along with Hyrule's.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Except for the many references to things that happened in Hyrule after Link had awoken from his seven-year slumber.

such as? its easy to explain the sage portraits, for the sages were destined to become sages at one point in their life. after that... there auctually isn't many adult saga references at all.

It has always been apparent from The Wind Waker that the future portion of Ocarina of Time did happen.

for one thing, the legend of link travelling forward in time was written by the royal family. for another thing, there are references in OoT that seem to state that the seal on ganondorf could defy time.

That could be possible, but that's never how the term parallel world is ever applied in fiction.

and LoZ is a fiction based on other fictions now?

And it still doesn't account for people looking the same. If the people looked completely different, then this likely wouldn't be an issue, and maybe we'd decide that Link just went to a different country somehow, and yes, the timeline would have to split as well, since it's part of the same universe.

unless you havn't realised, both hyrule and termina have unique character models. termina has the kafei, mayor, kafei's mom, monkeys tingle, ikanians, unique goron+deku+zora models while hyrule doesn't, while hyrule has the kokiri, great deku tree, king zora, rauru, impa, talon, (the dungeon bosses could be included), ganondorf, zelda, link (unless you count FD, but thats speculation) models while termina doesn't. also, its very imperfect. some models have various incarnations while some models have the same name as their incarnation counterpart. also, we all know how often nintendo uses the same character models whenever they use the same sort of graphics with their games. the character models are just a kind of side effect of their habits IMO. there is no reason why they would create a whole new batch of character models if they were using the same sort of graphics.

But it really doesn't seem like it is part of the same universe, and that's why it doesn't seem like Termina's timeline split along with Hyrule's.

it seems to me that the reason that you believe your current theory is only because of your desperation (ah sorry, i can't think of a better word) of finding a way to link together the child and adult timelines.
first, you can't deny the fact that entrances/exits always lead to the same areas.
second, there is no good reason of why termina must be in a different universe to hyrule's. on top of this, there is no evidence of it either.
a hole with images? so what? to me, it seemed more like the skull kid's mischief over the entrance to a new universe.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

such as? its easy to explain the sage portraits, for the sages were destined to become sages at one point in their life. after that... there auctually isn't many adult saga references at all.

They're stained-glass windows, leaving no question as to who they're of. In Ocarina of Time, with the exception of Sheik saying that Impa was to become the Sage of Shadow, no one knows who's a Sage or not. Destiny or not, no one knew. Another reference is the statue of a grown Link wielding the Master Sword and the Hylian Shield. The opening sequence depicts Link defeating Ganon. When you first get the Master Sword, it says that it was once used by the Hero. That's just off the top of my head. As I said, numerous references.

for one thing, the legend of link travelling forward in time was written by the royal family. for another thing, there are references in OoT that seem to state that the seal on ganondorf could defy time.

Link didn't travel forward in time at all. He was held in stasis for seven years. What if you were in a coma for seven years? Would you say you traveled into the future? No, you aged naturally, but you weren't conscious. It's the same thing. And I never saw any of those references. If it could defy time, then he'd be sealed across all of time and there'd never be any other games.

and LoZ is a fiction based on other fictions now?

I think that's pretty obvious. All fiction is based on other fiction. The Master Sword in the pedestal is an element of Arthurian legend. Reincarnation is an element of Hinduism and Buddhism (not to say they're fictional, but mythological). The Chosen Hero is in numerous legends and in reference to many characters, such as Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Achilles, Jesus, Luke Skywalker; you name it.

unless you havn't realised, both hyrule and termina have unique character models. termina has the kafei, mayor, kafei's mom, monkeys tingle, ikanians, unique goron+deku+zora models while hyrule doesn't, while hyrule has the kokiri, great deku tree, king zora, rauru, impa, talon, (the dungeon bosses could be included), ganondorf, zelda, link (unless you count FD, but thats speculation) models while termina doesn't. also, its very imperfect. some models have various incarnations while some models have the same name as their incarnation counterpart. also, we all know how often nintendo uses the same character models whenever they use the same sort of graphics with their games. the character models are just a kind of side effect of their habits IMO. there is no reason why they would create a whole new batch of character models if they were using the same sort of graphics.

Of course I've noticed there are unique models, but there are a sizable amount of direct models. The carpenters, Anju/Cuccoo Lady, Granny, Talon, Ingo, Malon, Ruto, the old man in the blue robe, the banker, the young couple; all of these are direct parallels of people in Hyrule. All these "imperfections", as you call them, are to further solidify the concept that though these people look like people in Hyrule, they aren't them. It's a different world. If Nintendo intended for Link to just travel to another continent or another part of the same world, the character models would've looked different. Also, Termina wouldn't be called a parallel world explicitly in the manual by an objective source, i.e. the manual writer, if it wasn't. There's no getting around it.

it seems to me that the reason that you believe your current theory is only because of your desperation (ah sorry, i can't think of a better word) of finding a way to link together the child and adult timelines.

I'm not trying to link together the child and adult timelines at all. They're already linked at the point before the split. I'm just showing how The Legend of the Fairy could get to the Adult Timeline of Hyrule when everyone argues that Majora's Mask takes place in the Child Timeline. If Termina has its own timeline, this isn't an issue.

first, you can't deny the fact that entrances/exits always lead to the same areas.

Surely, someone from the child timeline would return to the child timeline, and someone from the adult timeline would return to the adult timeline. But where would a Terminian go? Which Hyrule would they end up in? Could they choose? Would it be random? This is the question I'm raising. There's no definitive answer, but we know that somehow, an account of Link's deeds in Termina reached Hyrule in the Adult Timeline. This couldn't be possible unless Termina has a separate timeline from Hyrule.

second, there is no good reason of why termina must be in a different universe to hyrule's. on top of this, there is no evidence of it either.
a hole with images? so what? to me, it seemed more like the skull kid's mischief over the entrance to a new universe.

There are several good reasons, and I've listed them ad nauseum. It's referred to as being a parallel world in the manual. Parallel worlds exist in parallel universes, because they can't occupy the same space. Their existence as parallel worlds is further solidified by having similarities in races and people, but certain differences. If they existed on the same planet, or on different planets but the same universe, those direct models of people wouldn't be there. An out-of-universe answer, i.e. the developers were lazy, isn't suffice, because you can apply that to anything you don't agree with in a game and you'll completely invalidate anything that can be used as evidence. It's a slippery slope, it's fallacious, and I don't like it. You can use it against other people in a debate, but don't use it against me, because I'll never, and have never, used it against you. And if Link was falling to the other side of the world, as you're suggesting, where's the basis for your theory about somehow gravity turns off or gets switched around? How doesn't Link find his way into the core and get incincerated? The world is not flat, because when you use The Wind Waker and the Great Sea as an example, things roll into sight. This is how sailors originally postulated that the world was round, because if it was flat, nothing would roll into view, rather things would just get closer. The only thing there is evidence for is that they're parallel worlds in parallel universes. As such, they have separate timelines, and this is how the Legend of the Fairy can find it's way to the Adult Timeline of Hyrule.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

They're stained-glass windows, leaving no question as to who they're of. In Ocarina of Time, with the exception of Sheik saying that Impa was to become the Sage of Shadow, no one knows who's a Sage or not. Destiny or not, no one knew.

well auctually...

Originally Posted by Shiek

One Sage is waiting for the time of awakening in the Forest Temple.
The Sage is a girl I am sure you know...

we can also assume that she knew about ruto, seeing as how she was the only zora that shiek bothered to save.

Another reference is the statue of a grown Link wielding the Master Sword and the Hylian Shield.

child link eventually grows into an adult in his own timeline. also, who would have had the opportunity to sculpt a statue of link in the adult timeline? lol, the statue auctually supports WW happening in the child timeline if you consider this.

The opening sequence depicts Link defeating Ganon.

as part of a legend. it didn't have to auctually happen in their timeline, for it was just a tale passed down since OoT.

When you first get the Master Sword, it says that it was once used by the Hero.

and it was... when he travelled to the future.

That's just off the top of my head. As I said, numerous references.

i'm sorry. i just believe that WW was originally meant to take place after MM. the fact that the hero's clothes fit a child support this, as well as the legend of the fairy.

Link didn't travel forward in time at all. He was held in stasis for seven years. What if you were in a coma for seven years? Would you say you traveled into the future? No, you aged naturally, but you weren't conscious. It's the same thing.

well its all just assumption, but i believe that link travels forward in time every time he lifts the master sword after the first time. this would explain why link holds the master sword as if he just lifted it, as an adult every time he lifts it after the first master sword lift, while he just stands there with the sword on his side after the first master sword lift.

And I never saw any of those references. If it could defy time, then he'd be sealed across all of time and there'd never be any other games.

Originally Posted by Zelda

The six Sages will open the sealed door and lure Ganondorf back into the Sacred Realm.
I will then seal the door to the Sacred Realm from this world.
Thus, Ganondorf the Evil King will vanish from Hyrule.

well, we know that zelda was aware of time travel... so why do i assume that she meant that ganondorf would vanish from both timelines?
anyway, none of us auctually have any idea of how ganondorf escaped the seal in WW... although the fact that the master sword was sealing the time in hyrule when link arrived there in WW seems to support my theory somewhat.

I think that's pretty obvious. All fiction is based on other fiction. The Master Sword in the pedestal is an element of Arthurian legend. Reincarnation is an element of Hinduism and Buddhism (not to say they're fictional, but mythological). The Chosen Hero is in numerous legends and in reference to many characters, such as Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Achilles, Jesus, Luke Skywalker; you name it.

what other fictions involve the hero going back and forth through time OoT style?

Of course I've noticed there are unique models, but there are a sizable amount of direct models. The carpenters, Anju/Cuccoo Lady, Granny, Talon, Ingo, Malon, Ruto, the old man in the blue robe, the banker, the young couple; all of these are direct parallels of people in Hyrule. All these "imperfections", as you call them, are to further solidify the concept that though these people look like people in Hyrule, they aren't them. It's a different world. If Nintendo intended for Link to just travel to another continent or another part of the same world, the character models would've looked different.

unless they got lazy... comon now, do you auctually believe that with the same sort of graphics, nintendo would have downed the opportunity of re-using character models when the chance came up? anyway, like i just pointed out, both worlds have character models that the others dont have, so this seems to disprove your sort of theory.

Also, Termina wouldn't be called a parallel world explicitly in the manual by an objective source, i.e. the manual writer, if it wasn't. There's no getting around it.

the meaning of "parallel world" may not follow your interpretation. they didn't state parallel universe, and the game states that termina is made up of 4 worlds eg. chunks of land. perhaps this means that it was meant to be interpreted as a parallel chunks of land? we can't be sure.

I'm not trying to link together the child and adult timelines at all. They're already linked at the point before the split.

how can something be linked with something else that doesn't exist?

Surely, someone from the child timeline would return to the child timeline, and someone from the adult timeline would return to the adult timeline. But where would a Terminian go? Which Hyrule would they end up in? Could they choose? Would it be random? This is the question I'm raising. There's no definitive answer, but we know that somehow, an account of Link's deeds in Termina reached Hyrule in the Adult Timeline. This couldn't be possible unless Termina has a separate timeline from Hyrule.

let me attempt to answer this. think of termina as a house. think of link as a visitor. think of the outside of the house as a garden. now, the visitor enters the house from the garden, leaves the house and ends up in the garden. where do you assume a person living in the house would turn up if he exits the house from where visitor exited the house? a desert? no, the garden. (the garden is hyrule in the child timeline by the way)

There are several good reasons, and I've listed them ad nauseum. It's referred to as being a parallel world in the manual. Parallel worlds exist in parallel universes, because they can't occupy the same space.

it auctually depends on how the word "parallel" is used; what lines aren't meeting? my theory that the world is flat states that the lines that aren't meeting are the masses of land. your theory on what is parallel about the worlds is... i'm not auctually sure about it.

Their existence as parallel worlds is further solidified by having similarities in races and people, but certain differences. If they existed on the same planet, or on different planets but the same universe, those direct models of people wouldn't be there.

why not?

An out-of-universe answer, i.e. the developers were lazy, isn't suffice, because you can apply that to anything you don't agree with in a game and you'll completely invalidate anything that can be used as evidence. It's a slippery slope, it's fallacious, and I don't like it. You can use it against other people in a debate, but don't use it against me, because I'll never, and have never, used it against you.

you have a point about this, although like i pointed out, not every model is borrowed from both worlds, so your theory isn't exactly flawless. i won't use the point about the developers lazyness anymore, but you still have to prove... whatever you're trying to prove with this.

And if Link was falling to the other side of the world, as you're suggesting, where's the basis for your theory about somehow gravity turns off or gets switched around? How doesn't Link find his way into the core and get incincerated?

huh? ummm... watch the scene... its the hall that leads to clock town. it literally goes upside-down, like the halls in the forest temple in OoT. and the core? how should i know? i don't think it would matter with this anway, because link wouldn't have to walk right through the middle of the earth.

The world is not flat, because when you use The Wind Waker and the Great Sea as an example, things roll into sight. This is how sailors originally postulated that the world was round, because if it was flat, nothing would roll into view, rather things would just get closer.

lemme check on that... i'm pretty sure that the islands fade into sight, although you may be right.

The only thing there is evidence for is that they're parallel worlds in parallel universes.

where is the evidence of parallel universes?

As such, they have separate timelines, and this is how the Legend of the Fairy can find it's way to the Adult Timeline of Hyrule.

you still havn't proven how an entrance can lead to multiple areas...

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

well auctually...

we can also assume that she knew about ruto, seeing as how she was the only zora that shiek bothered to save.

That would be an example of Zelda knowing who the Sages are going to be. This makes sense, because it's established in Ocarina of Time that Zelda has prophetic visions. There's nothing else in the game to indicate that anyone else knows this. If anyone else did, why would the Sages need to be awakened? They would know they were Sages already.

child link eventually grows into an adult in his own timeline. also, who would have had the opportunity to sculpt a statue of link in the adult timeline? lol, the statue auctually supports WW happening in the child timeline if you consider this.

Yes, he would grow into an adult, but why would he be wielding the Master Sword? And you act as if in order to sculpt someone, they have to be in your presence. Either Zelda or some other character who had an extended period of contact with Link told the sculptor how he looked, and it was sculpted. You think Michelangelo actually met David?

as part of a legend. it didn't have to auctually happen in their timeline, for it was just a tale passed down since OoT.

It wasn't simply legend, because we know in The Wind Waker that Ganon broke from a seal that was placed on him, and this is what leads to Hyrule being flooded.

and it was... when he travelled to the future.

Yes, in the Adult Timeline. This wouldn't happen in the Child Timeline. Can't make up your mind?

i'm sorry. i just believe that WW was originally meant to take place after MM. the fact that the hero's clothes fit a child support this, as well as the legend of the fairy.

Link was a child when he began his adventure in Ocarina of Time. All The Legend of the Fairy shows now is that Termina has a different timeline. Everything else supports The Wind Waker taking place after the adult portion of Ocarina of Time, including developer quotes.

well its all just assumption, but i believe that link travels forward in time every time he lifts the master sword after the first time. this would explain why link holds the master sword as if he just lifted it, as an adult every time he lifts it after the first master sword lift, while he just stands there with the sword on his side after the first master sword lift.

Yes, that's true, but that's not what happens the first time. Rauru tells you that you were too young to be the Hero of Time, so you were kept in the Temple of Light for seven years. That's not time travel.

well, we know that zelda was aware of time travel... so why do i assume that she meant that ganondorf would vanish from both timelines?

That's the question I'm asking you.

anyway, none of us auctually have any idea of how ganondorf escaped the seal in WW... although the fact that the master sword was sealing the time in hyrule when link arrived there in WW seems to support my theory somewhat.

The Seven Sages must've been killed. After this, Hyrule is flooded, and the Master Sword is used to freeze time and keep a check on Ganon's power. Somehow, Ganon breaks free and kills Fado and Laruto, thereby gaining him more power. When Link removes the Master Sword from the pedestal, the seal is completely broken.

what other fictions involve the hero going back and forth through time OoT style?

Of course the game has unique qualities, or else it would be a rip-off. But all fiction influences other fiction.

unless they got lazy... comon now, do you auctually believe that with the same sort of graphics, nintendo would have downed the opportunity of re-using character models when the chance came up? anyway, like i just pointed out, both worlds have character models that the others dont have, so this seems to disprove your sort of theory.

Did you read anything I just said? Do not use out-of-universe explanations to counter in-game evidence. It's not valid. And no it doesn't. Of course there will be differences. If there weren't, they'd be the same place. But they're different places. However, there are parallel people to assert that they're parallel worlds. I don't see how this is even a problem. It's in the damn manual.

the meaning of "parallel world" may not follow your interpretation. they didn't state parallel universe, and the game states that termina is made up of 4 worlds eg. chunks of land. perhaps this means that it was meant to be interpreted as a parallel chunks of land? we can't be sure.

It's not my interpretation. In fact, I posted a definition a few pages back, either in this thread or the other thread on the Legend of the Fairy. Since you apparently didn't read anything I said before deciding you didn't agree with me, I'll post it again.

Originally Posted by Parallel universe (fiction): From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Parallel universe or alternate reality could be a self-contained separate reality coexisting with our own. A specific group of parallel universes is called a multiverse, although this term can also be used to describe all the parallel universes that comprise physical reality. While the terms "parallel universe" and "alternate reality" are generally synonymous and can be used interchangeably in most cases, there is sometimes an additional connotation implied with the term "alternate reality" that implies that the reality is a variant of our own. The term "parallel universe" is more general, without any connotations implying a relationship (or lack thereof) with our own universe.

If you type in parallel world, that's what they give you, only furthering that you can't have one without the other, so there goes that argument for you. As for Termina being comprised of four worlds, that's said by Granny when she's telling you a damn bedtime story. It's not nearly on par with what the manual says. It's metaphorical embellishment. That's obvious. If they were parallel chunks of land, they'd be called separate continents or countries. But that's not what they're called. They're called parallel worlds.

how can something be linked with something else that doesn't exist?

What are you trying to say here?

let me attempt to answer this. think of termina as a house. think of link as a visitor. think of the outside of the house as a garden. now, the visitor enters the house from the garden, leaves the house and ends up in the garden. where do you assume a person living in the house would turn up if he exits the house from where visitor exited the house? a desert? no, the garden. (the garden is hyrule in the child timeline by the way)

Why is the garden Hyrule in the Child Timeline. I've said this numerous times, but that seems to always be the case. You get to Termina through falling down a deep chasm that can be found in the Lost Woods. The Lost Woods doesn't only exist in the Child Timeline, it exists, at least for a time, in the Adult Timeline. Therefore, anyone from either timeline could find their way to Hyrule, and likely find their way back the same way. But what happens when someone from Termina tries to get to Hyrule? Since both Hyrules go to the same Termina, which Hyrule would that person end up in? Could they choose? Would it be random? That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying someone from the Child Timeline could go to Termina and end up in the Adult Timeline.

it auctually depends on how the word "parallel" is used; what lines aren't meeting? my theory that the world is flat states that the lines that aren't meeting are the masses of land. your theory on what is parallel about the worlds is... i'm not auctually sure about it.

No, parallel world never, ever, ever, ever, ever means what you're saying. Never. Ever. What you're describing is different continents or countries. If that's the case, they would've been described as such. And my theory is based on a very commonly used fictional explanation. It's used in comic book multiverses, movie ones, you name it. Yours is purely original and doesn't have any basis in anything.

why not?

Good God. Are you suggesting that there's someone on Earth who looks exactly like you, barring a twin? If not, then that's exactly what I'm saying. And that's exactly why Hyrule and Termina don't exist on the same planet.

you have a point about this, although like i pointed out, not every model is borrowed from both worlds, so your theory isn't exactly flawless. i won't use the point about the developers lazyness anymore, but you still have to prove... whatever you're trying to prove with this.

There are some different people because they are different worlds. But the similarities are to show that they're similar, i.e. parallel.

huh? ummm... watch the scene... its the hall that leads to clock town. it literally goes upside-down, like the halls in the forest temple in OoT. and the core? how should i know? i don't think it would matter with this anway, because link wouldn't have to walk right through the middle of the earth.

It turns upside down because it's likely not purely part of that world or Hyrule, but somewhere between. Sort of like the foresty area that you find yourself in after falling down the chasm. And if gravity exists, the world is round. Gravity causes worlds to rotate and revolve, and the speed at which they do so and the proximity to their sun causes their size, composition, and other things. But the rotation of a planet causes it to turn spherical. So, if Hyrule was flat, it wouldn't have any gravity. So, the world must be round, just by the fact that there's gravity and an atmosphere that holds breathable air. Unless you're going to suggest something else for which there's no evidence.

lemme check on that... i'm pretty sure that the islands fade into sight, although you may be right.

As long as there's gravity and breathable air, there's a round planet.

where is the evidence of parallel universes?

How could parallel worlds exist in the same universe? And look at the definition I posted. I typed in parallel world and it gave me parallel universe. That means they go hand-in-hand. You can't have parallel worlds that don't exist in parallel universes.

you still havn't proven how an entrance can lead to multiple areas...

Not for those coming from Hyrule, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm saying that if two Hyrules can lead to one Termina, then where does a Terminian end up? If it's random, and Tingle wound up in the Adult Timeline somehow, then voila! Legend of the Fairy in The Wind Waker.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

That would be an example of Zelda knowing who the Sages are going to be. This makes sense, because it's established in Ocarina of Time that Zelda has prophetic visions. There's nothing else in the game to indicate that anyone else knows this. If anyone else did, why would the Sages need to be awakened? They would know they were Sages already.

uhhh... huh? i'm just saying that they were destined to become sages even during the child timeline... so at some stage of their life, they would have became important and had portraits of them made.

Yes, he would grow into an adult, but why would he be wielding the Master Sword? And you act as if in order to sculpt someone, they have to be in your presence. Either Zelda or some other character who had an extended period of contact with Link told the sculptor how he looked, and it was sculpted. You think Michelangelo actually met David?

didn't Michelangelo sculpt David based on his imagination? Anyway, it could go either way, but it’s more likely that the statue was painted in the presence of link over the statue being painted purely based on imagination.
Why would he be holding the master sword? Perhaps the sword was sculpted to look like it to symbolise that link saved Hyrule.
Anyway, the statue could auctually be depicting child link. there is no absolute evidence of the link being an adult.

It wasn't simply legend, because we know in The Wind Waker that Ganon broke from a seal that was placed on him, and this is what leads to Hyrule being flooded.

the legend states that link travelled through time, although it doesn't state which timeline link is in while doing his actions. The legend was based on truth, but not necessarily about facts that happened in their timeline.

Yes, in the Adult Timeline. This wouldn't happen in the Child Timeline. Can't make up your mind?

I mean that the sword was wielded by OoT link, but what timeline he used it in doesn't really matter. He still used it.

Link was a child when he began his adventure in Ocarina of Time.

grandma states that WWL is the same age as OoTL is in the legends, meaning this is the age that OoTL is remembered, and WWL is closer to a child then an adult.
Also, the Deku tree in WW mistakes WWL for the hero of time, but don’t you think he wouldn’t have done this if he knew that the hero was an adult?

All The Legend of the Fairy shows now is that Termina has a different timeline.

not necessarily

Everything else supports The Wind Waker taking place after the adult portion of Ocarina of Time, including developer quotes.

can I please have some solid evidence?

Yes, that's true, but that's not what happens the first time. Rauru tells you that you were too young to be the Hero of Time, so you were kept in the Temple of Light for seven years. That's not time travel.

yeah the first time isn't time travel, but I think that every time after the first time is time travel. One moment, link is holding the sword, and the next moment he is in the exact same pose, except 7 years older. It seems like time travel to me.

That's the question I'm asking you.

Zelda knew about time travel and travelling back 7 years in time, so she probably knew what the fates of both timelines would be according to her plan. If she knew that this plan would have no effect on the child timeline, why would she seem so excited about it? It really doesn't make much sense. Also, instead of stating that Ganondorf would simply be sealed away, she states that Ganondorf would vanish from Hyrule, as in not exist in Hyrule anymore.

The Seven Sages must've been killed. After this, Hyrule is flooded, and the Master Sword is used to freeze time and keep a check on Ganon's power. Somehow, Ganon breaks free and kills Fado and Laruto, thereby gaining him more power. When Link removes the Master Sword from the pedestal, the seal is completely broken.

how can the master sword be used for another purpose while it has been dormant since OoT? To me, the time freeze seems to be the result of Ganon’s escape. He even states that it seals away his power (by freezing it in time)
If the time freeze was by the goddesses, it wouldn't have been reliant on the master sword.

Of course the game has unique qualities, or else it would be a rip-off. But all fiction influences other fiction.

but some fictions have unique qualities, and there isn't any reason why a unique type of parallel world can't be a unique quality of LoZ.

And no it doesn't. Of course there will be differences. If there weren't, they'd be the same place. But they're different places. However, there are parallel people to assert that they're parallel worlds. I don't see how this is even a problem. It's in the damn manual.

not every character model has a parallel though. How do you explain this?

It's not my interpretation. In fact, I posted a definition a few pages back, either in this thread or the other thread on the Legend of the Fairy. Since you apparently didn't read anything I said before deciding you didn't agree with me, I'll post it again.

If you type in parallel world, that's what they give you, only furthering that you can't have one without the other, so there goes that argument for you.

common now, its Wikipedia. It isn't the most reliable source in the world. The qualities of a parallel world seem rather mysterious, so this is probably why they just linked its definition to parallel universe. They’re not the same thing.

As for Termina being comprised of four worlds, that's said by Granny when she's telling you a damn bedtime story. It's not nearly on par with what the manual says. It's metaphorical embellishment. That's obvious. If they were parallel chunks of land, they'd be called separate continents or countries. But that's not what they're called. They're called parallel worlds.

so what granny tells us is a lie? Is there any evidence for this? Her stories seem pretty authentic to me.
if granny is a lyer, i suppose the king of hyrule and ganondorf are also lyers.

Originally Posted by King of Red Lions

Excellent, Link. To receive such a puzzle and decipher it is no small feat. Now, take the sword that lies before you. It is none other than the Master Sword... The blade of evil's bane. It is the only sword that can banish Ganon from the world above!

notice how he speaks of the world above Hyrule as a seperate world compared to Hyrule?

Originally Posted by King of Red Lions

Link, I have troubling news... Ganon has not shown himself
above the seas since Valoo unleashed his fiery wrath upon him. And what's
worse, there's not a creature stirring in his base of operations in this
world... the Forsaken Fortress. ...I cannot imagine how it is possible, and yet
I cannot shake this foreboding feeling that I have about the princess, Zelda.
Link, you must search for all the Triforce shards so that we can head back to
Hyrule without delay!

now he describes the WW ganons tower and the forsaken fortress as if they are in seperate worlds.

Originally Posted by Ganondorf

My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.

now ganondorf states that the winds seared his "world", while they didn't outside Hyrule. in other words, he is reffering to the Gerudo region as if it is a seperate world compared to the rest of Hyrule.
anyway, the definition of the word "world" in LoZ seems to refer to different land masses/countries. not different planets/universes. granny agrees, the king of hyrule agrees and ganondorf agrees.

What are you trying to say here?

you said that the timelines were already linked before the split even happened...?

Why is the garden Hyrule in the Child Timeline. I've said this numerous times, but that seems to always be the case. You get to Termina through falling down a deep chasm that can be found in the Lost Woods. The Lost Woods doesn't only exist in the Child Timeline, it exists, at least for a time, in the Adult Timeline. Therefore, anyone from either timeline could find their way to Hyrule, and likely find their way back the same way. But what happens when someone from Termina tries to get to Hyrule? Since both Hyrules go to the same Termina, which Hyrule would that person end up in? Could they choose? Would it be random? That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying someone from the Child Timeline could go to Termina and end up in the Adult Timeline.

I really find your theory hard to believe. Let me explain why.
First of all, the portal to Termina existed before the split happened. This is proven by the fact that the portal was entered in the earlier timeline.
According to your theory, when the split occurs, this portal suddenly gains the ability to exit to numerous timelines at random… and that makes no sense.
Second of all, everyone that exits the portal will enter a random timeline. In other words, if multiple beings exited the timeline together, they may not end up with each other. This sounds crazy.

No, parallel world never, ever, ever, ever, ever means what you're saying. Never. Ever.

so something is impossible if it hasn’t been done before? Parallel world has no definitive definition, and therefore there is no reason why it can’t mean what I’m saying.

What you're describing is different continents or countries. If that's the case, they would've been described as such.

they never gave us a definitive description of the relationship between the 2 worlds. They never described Termina and Hyrule as parallel “universes”. That’s just your interpretation.

And my theory is based on a very commonly used fictional explanation. It's used in comic book multiverses, movie ones, you name it. Yours is purely original and doesn't have any basis in anything.

huh? Yours is purely original to. What common fictions describe parallel universes as having separate time flows.

Good God. Are you suggesting that there's someone on Earth who looks exactly like you, barring a twin? If not, then that's exactly what I'm saying. And that's exactly why Hyrule and Termina don't exist on the same planet.

There are some different people because they are different worlds. But the similarities are to show that they're similar, i.e. parallel.

That’s your opinion. Lands that are part of the planet including Hyrule have characters that look identical to others, yet aren’t them, such as Malon, Talon, Ingo and Guru Guru in OoS and the Postman, Tingle, The Happy Mask Salesman and The Hand (???) in OoA.
Lands don’t have to be in different universes to have characters that look similar to each other.

And if gravity exists, the world is round. Gravity causes worlds to rotate and revolve, and the speed at which they do so and the proximity to their sun causes their size, composition, and other things. But the rotation of a planet causes it to turn spherical. So, if Hyrule was flat, it wouldn't have any gravity. So, the world must be round, just by the fact that there's gravity and an atmosphere that holds breathable air. Unless you're going to suggest something else for which there's no evidence.

As long as there's gravity and breathable air, there's a round planet.

Originally Posted by Ocarina of Time

Nayru...

Poured her wisdom onto the earth and gave the spirit of law to the world.

Hyrule follows the laws that Nayru set, and these may not be based on the real world laws of physics. Anyway, I checked a few WW videos and it seems like islands fade into sight and get bigger as you get closer to them, rather than roll into sight.

How could parallel worlds exist in the same universe? And look at the definition I posted. I typed in parallel world and it gave me parallel universe. That means they go hand-in-hand. You can't have parallel worlds that don't exist in parallel universes.

you typed parallel world in Wikipedia, which isn’t the most reliable source of information. Everyone knows that some information on it is based on opinion.

Not for those coming from Hyrule, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm saying that if two Hyrules can lead to one Termina, then where does a Terminian end up?

what if one Hyrule leads to one Termina, while another Hyrule leads to another Termina? Unlike your theory, this theory doesn’t have any flaws.
ah, these quotes are getting too long.

My own thoughts were that Zelda in OoT created the world that Link goes to in MM.

Whether that land existed in any other alternate timeline remains to be seen. Many characters from hyrule and with cameos in much later games make appearances in this game.

Tingle (TMC and tWW)
The Wind Fish (LA)
The twinrova (OoT and OoX)
The singing wolf (TP)
The happy mask man (OoT)

I like the ideas that have been put forth here that Termina is a mirror of Hyrule, this fits with my personal theory that Zelda created a place almost like Hyrule for Link to live out his childhood.

Again, whether this land existed before that and had any history outside of Link being involved in it remains to be seen, and it doesn't really matter. All we know from developer quotes is that TP follows THE CHILD ending.

above was my personal opinion, but this is the meat of the arguement, and there should be no debate.

TP doesn't follow some new course that was randomly chosen that had never been thought of or hadn't existed. IT FOLLOWS MM. It has been placed on the child timeline, and in the child timeline Link helps imprison Ganon and then goes off on his own personal quest. THIS IS MM GUYS. And then later on in Hyrule... TP happens, no it doesn't happen in the same land as MM, but it still happens on the same timeline. I don't know why people continue to debate THIS.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

uhhh... huh? i'm just saying that they were destined to become sages even during the child timeline... so at some stage of their life, they would have became important and had portraits of them made.

If Twilight Princess is any indication, they don't become sages that time around.

didn't Michelangelo sculpt David based on his imagination? Anyway, it could go either way, but it’s more likely that the statue was painted in the presence of link over the statue being painted purely based on imagination.
Why would he be holding the master sword? Perhaps the sword was sculpted to look like it to symbolise that link saved Hyrule.

Yes, he did. That's my point. Why is it more likely that it was done in the presence of Link? He looks identical to his appearance in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. That accounts for why he's holding the Master Sword without factoring in symbolism.

Anyway, the statue could auctually be depicting child link. there is no absolute evidence of the link being an adult.

Except he looks like Link did as an adult.

the legend states that link travelled through time, although it doesn't state which timeline link is in while doing his actions. The legend was based on truth, but not necessarily about facts that happened in their timeline.

How so? Link defeated Ganon in the backstory of The Wind Waker. In Twilight Princess, no such conflict is evident. The Wind Waker has always been presented as happening after the future portion of Ocarina of Time.

I mean that the sword was wielded by OoT link, but what timeline he used it in doesn't really matter. He still used it.

There's no evidence that he used it in the Child Timeline.

grandma states that WWL is the same age as OoTL is in the legends, meaning this is the age that OoTL is remembered, and WWL is closer to a child then an adult.

That doesn't necessarily mean that's the only age he's remembered. He is remembered as starting his quest young, though. That's why the Hero of Winds starts his quest young, but the statue of Link is of him as an adult. It accounts for both.

Also, the Deku tree in WW mistakes WWL for the hero of time, but don’t you think he wouldn’t have done this if he knew that the hero was an adult?
not necessarily

The clothes are what threw him off. He apparently hadn't seen anyone dressed like that for hundreds of years.

can I please have some solid evidence?

All you have to do is play the game, it's all there. You're probably the only one here arguing that The Wind Waker wasn't intended to follow the future portion of Ocarina of Time, when it's obvious.

yeah the first time isn't time travel, but I think that every time after the first time is time travel. One moment, link is holding the sword, and the next moment he is in the exact same pose, except 7 years older. It seems like time travel to me.

That's correct. But the first time wasn't time travel, that's all I'm saying.

Zelda knew about time travel and travelling back 7 years in time, so she probably knew what the fates of both timelines would be according to her plan. If she knew that this plan would have no effect on the child timeline, why would she seem so excited about it? It really doesn't make much sense. Also, instead of stating that Ganondorf would simply be sealed away, she states that Ganondorf would vanish from Hyrule, as in not exist in Hyrule anymore.

Or, as in not exist in Hyrule in that timeline. Zelda is not omniscient, nor omnipotent. She can't control everything nor know everything. In fact, Ocarina of Time clearly demonstrates that she can make mistakes, such as telling Link to open the Door of Time, which led to Ganondorf touching the Triforce in the first place. She's not perfect, so there's no reason to treat her as such in this case.

how can the master sword be used for another purpose while it has been dormant since OoT? To me, the time freeze seems to be the result of Ganon’s escape. He even states that it seals away his power (by freezing it in time)

I don't see how a time freeze could stop Ganon's power necessarily.

If the time freeze was by the goddesses, it wouldn't have been reliant on the master sword.

Then why would the Master Sword require Sages praying to the Gods to maintain its power, thereby maintaining the seal?

but some fictions have unique qualities, and there isn't any reason why a unique type of parallel world can't be a unique quality of LoZ.

If the unique quality of the world isn't stated, there's no reason to think it's unique.

not every character model has a parallel though. How do you explain this?

I've explained it several times. There are similar people to show they're similar worlds. But there are still different people because they are still different worlds. Get it?

common now, its Wikipedia. It isn't the most reliable source in the world. The qualities of a parallel world seem rather mysterious, so this is probably why they just linked its definition to parallel universe. They’re not the same thing.

Parallel universe (fiction) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRead the article for yourself. It cites numerous examples. They're linked because they go hand-in-hand. There's no way you could have a parallel world without having a parallel universe to go along with it.

so what granny tells us is a lie? Is there any evidence for this? Her stories seem pretty authentic to me.

She's not lying, but she's telling a story. She's a character in a game, and as a living character in the game world, she has her own characteristics, experiences, and biases. These make her a subjective source. The manual, on the other hand, is an objective source, and biasless. That's why the manual tells the truth and Granny is telling a story.

and if you think that granny is a lyer, do you also think that the king of hyrule is a lyer?

It's not about being a liar, it's about being subjective and not objective.

notice how he speaks of the world above Hyrule as a seperate world compared to Hyrule? does this mean that they are on different planets? no. like i said before, worlds in LoZ seem to be defined as different masses of land.

Again, it's metaphorical embellishment told by a subjective source. Very different from my example of the manual.

now he describes the WW ganons tower and the forsaken fortress as if they are in seperate worlds. Hyrule is on the same planet that includes the Great Sea though.

Same thing.

so my point is that the definition of world in LoZ seems to be different land masses/countries. not different planets/universes.

First off, they're all said by characters, not by manuals, so they're subjective, not objective. Also, none of these are used in describing parallel worlds, so there's no grounds for direct comparison.

you said that the timelines were already linked before the split even happened...?

The Adult Timeline and Child Timeline both once belonged to the same timeline. Then the split occurred, and they became separate. It's like a fork in the road.

I really find your theory hard to believe. Let me explain why.
First of all, the portal to Termina existed before the split happened. This is proven by the fact that the portal was entered in the earlier timeline.
According to your theory, when the split occurs, this portal suddenly gains the ability to exit to numerous timelines at random… and that makes no sense.

No, this is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if a Hyrulean from the child timeline goes to Termina and then goes back to the child timeline, and a Hyrulean from the adult timeline goes to Termina and then goes back to the adult timeline, then where does a Terminian go when they travel the same route that the Hyrulean took to get back to Hyrule? Two Hyrules reach one Termina, so which Hyrule will the Terminian end up in?

Second of all, everyone that exits the portal will enter a random timeline. In other words, if multiple beings exited the timeline together, they may not end up with each other. This sounds crazy.

Once again, not what I'm saying.

so something is impossible if it hasn’t been done before? Parallel world has no definitive definition, and therefore there is no reason why it can’t mean what I’m saying.

Sure it has a definition. In that definition of parallel universe, substitute every usage of universe with world, and that's the definition.

they never gave us a definitive description of the relationship between the 2 worlds. They never described Termina and Hyrule as parallel “universes”. That’s just your interpretation.

No, it's not. The manual states they're parallel worlds. I tried to find a definition of parallel world and was redirected to parallel universe. That means they go hand-in-hand, and that if worlds are parallel, their universes are parallel.

huh? Yours is purely original to. What common fictions describe parallel universes as having separate time flows.

Um, all of them. That's the very reason why they're parallel universes and not the same universe. They have different histories. Different timelines.

That’s your opinion. Lands that are part of the planet including Hyrule have characters that look identical to others, yet aren’t them, such as Malon, Talon, Ingo and Guru Guru in OoS and the Postman, Tingle, The Happy Mask Salesman and The Hand (???) in OoA.

But see, those games take place at least 1000 years after Ocarina of Time, and the characters don't repeat themselves in Hyrule, Labrynna, and Holodrum. If they did, you'd have an argument. But since these people are living in different places at different times and not in different places at the same time, like in Majora's Mask, I'm going to have to say that your example isn't valid.

Lands don’t have to be in different universes to have characters that look similar to each other.

Maybe not if they have characters that look similar to each other. But if they have characters that look exactly like each other? Then yeah, I'd say they do.

Hyrule follows the laws that Nayru set, and these may not be based on the real world laws of physics. Anyway, I checked a few WW videos and it seems like islands fade into sight and get bigger as you get closer to them, rather than roll into sight.

And couldn't one of the laws that Nayru set be the law of gravity? There's no evidence of anything else causing the people to stay grounded.

you typed parallel world in Wikipedia, which isn’t the most reliable source of information. Everyone knows that some information on it is based on opinion.

Some information, but not all. If an article cites numerous sources and gives many examples, like that article does, I'd say it's basically fact. If you deny it, that's your choice, but don't bother debating me if you're going to ignore all those examples.

what if one Hyrule leads to one Termina, while another Hyrule leads to another Termina? Unlike your theory, this theory doesn’t have any flaws.
ah, these quotes are getting too long.

Yes, it does. It doesn't explain how The Legend of the Fairy could get to Hyrule. That's the very reason for this debate. What I'm suggesting does.

I'm sorry I've barly read half the thread but I'd like to correcet this ...

An alternate dimension is actually short hand, judging from the way it is typically used, for "another place that we can only reach by moving in another dimension." This sort of place would be affected by Hyrule's time dimension, since the same dimension of time is present in both.

A Dimension is one of 9 things. For instance we live in the third dimension because everything is 3-D. Yes everything paper has depth belive it or not.

Let me list the dimensions.

1. Object infiltessimally (infanatly) small.
2. 2-D object. (Has no depth).
3. 3-D. (Length with and depth)
4. Teraspace object or 4-D object. (object bigger on the inside than on the outside.)
5. Time
6. Time travel
7, 8 and 9: absolute instant warping in the 1'rst 2'nd or 3'rd dimensions.

Thankyou.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

If Twilight Princess is any indication, they don't become sages that time around.

well i don't want to get my personal beliefs about TP involved... but i'm saying that WW was originally intended to be a sequal to MM, as in it was meant to be in the child timeline while it was the latest game.

Yes, he did. That's my point. Why is it more likely that it was done in the presence of Link? He looks identical to his appearance in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. That accounts for why he's holding the Master Sword without factoring in symbolism.

Except he looks like Link did as an adult.

how does he supposedly look like an adult? the size of the statue obviously doesn't symbolize the age of the link, and we can't see what type of tunic he is wearing judging by the colour of the statue...

How so? Link defeated Ganon in the backstory of The Wind Waker. In Twilight Princess, no such conflict is evident.
The Wind Waker has always been presented as happening after the future portion of Ocarina of Time.

always? i'm arguing that it wasn't always meant to be after the adult timeline. twilight princess may have changed its placement, but we aren't sure about what aonuma is trying to do right now.

There's no evidence that he used it in the Child Timeline.

i never said that he used it in the child timeline. i'm saying that link using the master sword in the adult timeline still counts as link using the master sword even while he is in the child timeline.

That doesn't necessarily mean that's the only age he's remembered. He is remembered as starting his quest young, though. That's why the Hero of Winds starts his quest young, but the statue of Link is of him as an adult. It accounts for both.

we're still arguing about the age of the statue, so it doesn't prove anything yet.
the hero's remembered age would be the age at about when everybody knows him, and that would be at the end of his adventure. not at the start of his adventure.

The clothes are what threw him off. He apparently hadn't seen anyone dressed like that for hundreds of years.

but he didn't realise it wasn't him until he realised that he couldn't speak hylian. the tree would have known the age of the hero, either through the legends or knowing him personally.

All you have to do is play the game, it's all there. You're probably the only one here arguing that The Wind Waker wasn't intended to follow the future portion of Ocarina of Time, when it's obvious.

i asked for evidence...

Or, as in not exist in Hyrule in that timeline. Zelda is not omniscient, nor omnipotent. She can't control everything nor know everything. In fact, Ocarina of Time clearly demonstrates that she can make mistakes, such as telling Link to open the Door of Time, which led to Ganondorf touching the Triforce in the first place. She's not perfect, so there's no reason to treat her as such in this case.

she isn't perfect, but she is wise and intelligent. like i said before, she wouldn' have been so excited about the sealing of ganon if she knew that it wouldn't affect the timeline that link would be living in.

I don't see how a time freeze could stop Ganon's power necessarily.

by making them unable to move... his minions seemed to be a manifestation of his power, so they are a good example of this.

Then why would the Master Sword require Sages praying to the Gods to maintain its power, thereby maintaining the seal?

the master sword began with evil-repelling powers. i'm saying it can't be granted other powers later on such as time-freezing powers. this is why the time freeze seems to be a side effect of ganons escape over an ability of the master sword.

If the unique quality of the world isn't stated, there's no reason to think it's unique.

so if a unique quality isn't auctually stated, it isn't there? the split in the timeline is a unique quality that hasn't auctually been stated, and yet everybody seems to agree that it is there.

I've explained it several times. There are similar people to show they're similar worlds. But there are still different people because they are still different worlds. Get it?

no. the type of parallel world that you are thinking of has a copy of every character from the world that it is parallel of.

Parallel universe (fiction) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRead the article for yourself. It cites numerous examples. They're linked because they go hand-in-hand. There's no way you could have a parallel world without having a parallel universe to go along with it.

where does it say this? thats your opinion, just like the opinion of whoever made the wikipedia article.

She's not lying, but she's telling a story. She's a character in a game, and as a living character in the game world, she has her own characteristics, experiences, and biases. These make her a subjective source. The manual, on the other hand, is an objective source, and biasless. That's why the manual tells the truth and Granny is telling a story.

It's not about being a liar, it's about being subjective and not objective.

but the manual and the characters can work together to make their own meaning. your misinterpreting what the manual says. it doesn't say parallel universe, and wikipedia doesn't really support your opinion either.

Again, it's metaphorical embellishment told by a subjective source. Very different from my example of the manual.

Same thing.

your example in the manual, meaning your interpretation of the manual, meaning not fact.

First off, they're all said by characters, not by manuals, so they're subjective, not objective. Also, none of these are used in describing parallel worlds, so there's no grounds for direct comparison.

first of all, in game references are much more reliable than all other references.
second, once we set down the meaning of half the word (parallel "world"), we can get a cleaner translation of the word from there.

The Adult Timeline and Child Timeline both once belonged to the same timeline. Then the split occurred, and they became separate. It's like a fork in the road.

yeah, but the fork doesn't exist before it happened...

No, this is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if a Hyrulean from the child timeline goes to Termina and then goes back to the child timeline, and a Hyrulean from the adult timeline goes to Termina and then goes back to the adult timeline, then where does a Terminian go when they travel the same route that the Hyrulean took to get back to Hyrule?

the terminian goes along the same path that the hyrulean took, obviously.

Two Hyrules reach one Termina, so which Hyrule will the Terminian end up in?

no, two hyrules do not reach one termina. this is your opinion and it has no evidence. whats more, you even agree that it has a flaw. entrances/exits always enter/exit the same area.

Once again, not what I'm saying.

it is what you're saying. you're saying that a native hyrulean would end up in his home from termina while a native terminean will enter 1 of 2 places at random if he/she tries to get to hyrule. what if a hyrulean and a terminian exit termina together? according to your theory, they may not end up with each other. there is a 50% chance that the terminian will vanish into thin air to the hyrulean and end up in another timeline.

Sure it has a definition. In that definition of parallel universe, substitute every usage of universe with world, and that's the definition.

according to wikipedia, which is based on opinion. get me some sort of reliable encyclopedia that agrees with your definition and i'll believe you. otherwise, i have no reason to, and you don't have any solid evidence of what a parallel world is.

No, it's not. The manual states they're parallel worlds. I tried to find a definition of parallel world and was redirected to parallel universe. That means they go hand-in-hand, and that if worlds are parallel, their universes are parallel.

use a source that isn't wiki... only fools believe everything that they say.

Um, all of them. That's the very reason why they're parallel universes and not the same universe. They have different histories. Different timelines.

all of them? give me an example...
anyway, 2 areas don't have to have different time flows if they have different histories. this is obvious.

But see, those games take place at least 1000 years after Ocarina of Time,

thats an opinion... your timeline hasn't been proven yet.

and the characters don't repeat themselves in Hyrule, Labrynna, and Holodrum. If they did, you'd have an argument. But since these people are living in different places at different times and not in different places at the same time, like in Majora's Mask, I'm going to have to say that your example isn't valid.

what? but you said that hyrule and termina don't follow the same timeline anyway. this seems like a contradiction to me.

Maybe not if they have characters that look similar to each other. But if they have characters that look exactly like each other? Then yeah, I'd say they do.

the OoX series has characters that look identical to their counterparts in hyrule and termina. i auctually meant exactly over similar anyway...

And couldn't one of the laws that Nayru set be the law of gravity? There's no evidence of anything else causing the people to stay grounded.

yes, nayru may have made a law of gravity, but it may not involve a round world. nayru's law of gravity may not have much rules at all. this would explain why it can be altered in areas such as the forest temple.

Some information, but not all. If an article cites numerous sources and gives many examples, like that article does, I'd say it's basically fact. If you deny it, that's your choice, but don't bother debating me if you're going to ignore all those examples.

what? examples of what? the only reason why you believe an article based on opinion is because you want to so that it can support your theory. you're basically just saying quantity over quality right now. lol, i should be the one stating that i will ignore your debate if you don't use reliable sources.

Yes, it does. It doesn't explain how The Legend of the Fairy could get to Hyrule. That's the very reason for this debate. What I'm suggesting does.

some find wacky and unsupported theorys to answer their questions, when they choose not to believe that there are much better explanations..... there is no evidence of termina's portal having some sort complicated form of of access to the adult timeline. a simpler explanation that is supported by evidence is that WW was at least originally intended to happen after MM.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

well i don't want to get my personal beliefs about TP involved... but i'm saying that WW was originally intended to be a sequal to MM, as in it was meant to be in the child timeline while it was the latest game.

Except for the references to the Adult Timeline, which I've already pointed out.

how does he supposedly look like an adult? the size of the statue obviously doesn't symbolize the age of the link, and we can't see what type of tunic he is wearing judging by the colour of the statue...

He looks like an adult in that he doesn't look like a child. He's wielding the Master Sword and the Hylian Shield in a manner in which he did in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. I can't see how you're even trying to twist this.

always? i'm arguing that it wasn't always meant to be after the adult timeline. twilight princess may have changed its placement, but we aren't sure about what aonuma is trying to do right now.

But the in-game references point to an adult timeline placement. That, coupled with Aonuma's quotes, even at the time of The Wind Waker's release, support this.

i never said that he used it in the child timeline. i'm saying that link using the master sword in the adult timeline still counts as link using the master sword even while he is in the child timeline.

No, it doesn't, because he doesn't wield it as a child. So, when the timeline splits, there's one future where Link is an adult and wields the Master Sword, and one future where Link is an adult and doesn't wield the Master Sword.

we're still arguing about the age of the statue, so it doesn't prove anything yet

The Master Sword and Hylian Shield point at him being an adult.

the hero's remembered age would be the age at about when everybody knows him, and that would be at the end of his adventure. not at the start of his adventure.

There are people who knew him when he was a child, as well. He could be remembered as both.

but he didn't realise it wasn't him until he realised that he couldn't speak hylian. the tree would have known the age of the hero, either through the legends or knowing him personally.

The Deku Tree said that he reminded him of someone, and that's why he started talking that way. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the age, but with the manner of dress. No one else in The Wind Waker dresses that way.

i asked for evidence...

And I've provided you with it. All you have to do to verify what I'm saying is turn on the game.

she isn't perfect, but she is wise and intelligent. like i said before, she wouldn' have been so excited about the sealing of ganon if she knew that it wouldn't affect the timeline that link would be living in.

Why? She was excited because it affected the timeline she was living in. There's no evidence of anything else.

by making them unable to move... his minions seemed to be a manifestation of his power, so they are a good example of this.

They're manifestations of his power, but they're not his power itself.

the master sword began with evil-repelling powers. i'm saying it can't be granted other powers later on such as time-freezing powers. this is why the time freeze seems to be a side effect of ganons escape over an ability of the master sword.

Then why does time unfreeze when the Master Sword is drawn?

so if a unique quality isn't auctually stated, it isn't there? the split in the timeline is a unique quality that hasn't auctually been stated, and yet everybody seems to agree that it is there.

Um, it's been stated by Aonuma. That's why everyone accepts it.

no. the type of parallel world that you are thinking of has a copy of every character from the world that it is parallel of.

Why? In that article I provided, not every example of a parallel world/universe has every character duplicated. There are unique qualities to the worlds.

where does it say this? thats your opinion, just like the opinion of whoever made the wikipedia article.

It's so implied, it's not even funny. You still haven't explained how parallel worlds could exist in the same universe. Not as different continents or other land bodies, but completely different worlds that have shared elements. How can they exist in the same universe?

but the manual and the characters can work together to make their own meaning. your misinterpreting what the manual says. it doesn't say parallel universe, and wikipedia doesn't really support your opinion either.

Misinterpreting? Alright, I found a scan of the manual, so I'll quote what I'm talking about in case you can't read it. "Welcome to Termina: This is a kind of parallel world that is similar and yet different from the land of Hyrule, which was the setting for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Termina is a mysterious place, and the people Link meets here may look vaguely familiar at first glance." Here's the link: http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/majoras...s/z6-06-07.jpg

As you can see, it states that it's a parallel world. Since I tried to find a definition of parallel world, and it gave me the definition of parallel universe, it's heavily implied that one can't go without the other. You have not shown anything to the contrary.

your example in the manual, meaning your interpretation of the manual, meaning not fact.

See above.

first of all, in game references are much more reliable than all other references.

Certainly, and all of the in-game evidence points to Termina being a parallel world. The manual only further supports it by explicitly stating what most people could already infer for themselves.

second, once we set down the meaning of half the word (parallel "world"), we can get a cleaner translation of the word from there.

There's absolutely no need for translation, since it says this in the American manual. If you continue to deny this, you're only being stubborn.

yeah, but the fork doesn't exist before it happened...

I'm not saying it did. I'm saying that the two Hyrulean timelines were once one.

the terminian goes along the same path that the hyrulean took, obviously.

What Hyrulean? What if he goes by himself?

no, two hyrules do not reach one termina. this is your opinion and it has no evidence. whats more, you even agree that it has a flaw. entrances/exits always enter/exit the same area.

Has no evidence? Everything I've said in this thread, I have provided evidence for to the best of my ability. If there's a Termina for the Child Timeline and a Termina for the Adult Timeline, then how did the Legend of the Fairy get to Adult Timeline Hyrule? You can ***** and moan all you want, but you still haven't provided an explanation for this that holds any water.

it is what you're saying. you're saying that a native hyrulean would end up in his home from termina while a native terminean will enter 1 of 2 places at random if he/she tries to get to hyrule. what if a hyrulean and a terminian exit termina together? according to your theory, they may not end up with each other. there is a 50% chance that the terminian will vanish into thin air to the hyrulean and end up in another timeline.

Why isn't that possible? The Terminian is only bound to Termina, not to any specific Hyrule. If there's one Termina and two Hyrules, what's to determine which Hyrule he ends up in? Nothing, apparently.

according to wikipedia, which is based on opinion. get me some sort of reliable encyclopedia that agrees with your definition and i'll believe you. otherwise, i have no reason to, and you don't have any solid evidence of what a parallel world is.

Did you even read the article? I bet you didn't. It cites numerous examples, which you could easily check the veracity of. You're just being lazy and stubborn. I'll give you examples of some parallel worlds.

In the pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths continuity, DC Comics had a multiverse, of which there were several different earths. Earth-1 and Earth-2 were the most similar, in that they shared characters, but sometimes superheroes had different identities, lived in different cities, stuff like that. On Earth-3, the heroes were the villains and Lex Luthor was the only hero on that earth. These are all examples of parallel worlds. When the Anti-Monitor started his quest for multiversal destruction, he targeted these planets. Not solely the planets, but their universes. Not only was Earth-3 destroyed, but its universe was, as well. They were parallel worlds existing in parallel universes, hence the term MULTIverse. Not a universe, but multiple ones. Now, provide me an example of where parallel world means different continents, and maybe we'll have grounds for debate.

use a source that isn't wiki... only fools believe everything that they say.

The same could be said for those who outright dismiss everything they say, especially when the source cites numerous examples and the other, being you, doesn't have any.

all of them? give me an example...

Just did.

anyway, 2 areas don't have to have different time flows if they have different histories. this is obvious.

But all the places on Earth don't have completely different and incompatible histories. We're all populated by humans that have their origins in Africa. We all live on Earth. Earth was created about 4 billion years ago. These are common elements for every country on Earth. At one point or several, all places on this earth share a timeline.

thats an opinion... your timeline hasn't been proven yet.

Then when do you suggest OoX takes place?

what? but you said that hyrule and termina don't follow the same timeline anyway. this seems like a contradiction to me.

How so? They don't follow the same timeline. That's why people who look exactly the same can be living in two different places at exactly the same time. Because they're different universes!

the OoX series has characters that look identical to their counterparts in hyrule and termina. i auctually meant exactly over similar anyway...

Counterparts in the past, not at the same time. People could've easily moved. And there's no concrete evidence that Holodrum or Labrynna take place on the same earth as Hyrule either. They, too, could be parallel universes.

yes, nayru may have made a law of gravity, but it may not involve a round world. nayru's law of gravity may not have much rules at all. this would explain why it can be altered in areas such as the forest temple.

Surely the gravity is being altered by what appears to be magic, but not by divine intervention. There's really no reason to think that the world is flat.

what? examples of what? the only reason why you believe an article based on opinion is because you want to so that it can support your theory. you're basically just saying quantity over quality right now. lol, i should be the one stating that i will ignore your debate if you don't use reliable sources.

Read the article, then get back to me. Thanks. It cites numerous examples of parallel universes in many forms of fiction. You have no support at all.

some find wacky and unsupported theorys to answer their questions, when they choose not to believe that there are much better explanations..... there is no evidence of termina's portal having some sort complicated form of of access to the adult timeline. a simpler explanation that is supported by evidence is that WW was at least originally intended to happen after MM.

No. Because there's no reference to Majora's Mask other than the Legend of the Fairy, and all the other references are to the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. And I don't see how anyone who could misconstrue the term "parallel world" as "lands that don't intersect, i.e. those that are separated by water" could have the gumption to call anyone else's theory wacky.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Except for the references to the Adult Timeline, which I've already pointed out.

which adult references?

He looks like an adult in that he doesn't look like a child. He's wielding the Master Sword and the Hylian Shield in a manner in which he did in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. I can't see how you're even trying to twist this.

the shield could auctually be the hero's shield he used in MM, and as i pointed out, the master sword could just be there to symbolise his actions. there really is no clear references to the statue being of an adult.

But the in-game references point to an adult timeline placement. That, coupled with Aonuma's quotes, even at the time of The Wind Waker's release, support this.

no, not really. maybe there are some small hints that can mean many things, but they can also mean what you don't interpret.

No, it doesn't, because he doesn't wield it as a child. So, when the timeline splits, there's one future where Link is an adult and wields the Master Sword, and one future where Link is an adult and doesn't wield the Master Sword.

but link is the same person from both timelines, so no matter which timeline he used the timeline in, it still counts as him using it. unlike others, he auctually travelled through time and remembered the adult timeline.

The Master Sword and Hylian Shield point at him being an adult.

it isn't confirmed to be the hylian shield, right? young link has used metal shields before. the master sword could symbolize something else besides its timeline usage, such as link saving hyrule with it.

There are people who knew him when he was a child, as well. He could be remembered as both.

but he would be known at his current age to everyone including those he met at the start of his adventure at the end of his adventure.

The Deku Tree said that he reminded him of someone, and that's why he started talking that way. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the age, but with the manner of dress. No one else in The Wind Waker dresses that way.

but the deku tree sounded certain about it, as if his appearence looked very similar to the hero of time. if the hero of time was remembered as an adult, the tree wouldn't have acted that sort of way.

And I've provided you with it. All you have to do to verify what I'm saying is turn on the game.

i have looked through the info, but the evidence is lacking and it isn't solid

Why? She was excited because it affected the timeline she was living in. There's no evidence of anything else.

well auctually, there is another hint that seems to support my theory.

Originally Posted by Prologue of MM

In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy...

A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend...

if hyrule was saved in the child timeline, wouldn't that mean that ganon was thwarted in it?

They're manifestations of his power, but they're not his power itself.

the time freeze disrupts the flow of his magic...

Then why does time unfreeze when the Master Sword is drawn?

because the seal is broken... wait, i didn't explain my theory yet
ganon somehow escapes the seal of the master sword which is frozen in time.
although he escapes the unbroken seal, his magic power doesn't manage to escape the seal and some of the seal slips into Hyrule, making its surroundings seem semi-frozen in time. Also, Ganon's attempt to summon minions with his magic results in the summoning of time frozen minions. The slip of the seal doesn't really affect Hyrule though. its inhabitants and surroundings are not affected (such as the king, puzzle and water)
When Link lifts the Master Sword, Ganondorfs seal is completely broken, allowing his magic to flow again. his minions are freed from the seal, allowing them to move, and ganon's magic is returned to him.

Um, it's been stated by Aonuma. That's why everyone accepts it.

aonuma auctually never stated "split", "timeline" or any other sort of those words/references in his interview besides the word parallel, which can mean other things. the split is auctually a unique quality that the fans have made up...

Why? In that article I provided, not every example of a parallel world/universe has every character duplicated. There are unique qualities to the worlds.

huh? what article?

It's so implied, it's not even funny. You still haven't explained how parallel worlds could exist in the same universe. Not as different continents or other land bodies, but completely different worlds that have shared elements. How can they exist in the same universe?

by just existing. its not like that defies any law.

Misinterpreting? Alright, I found a scan of the manual, so I'll quote what I'm talking about in case you can't read it. "Welcome to Termina: This is a kind of parallel world that is similar and yet different from the land of Hyrule, which was the setting for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Termina is a mysterious place, and the people Link meets here may look vaguely familiar at first glance." Here's the link: [URL="http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/majoras-mask/inst-us/z6-06-07.jpg"]http://zs.ffshrine.org/album/majoras-mask/inst-us/z6-06-07.jpg[/URL

As you can see, it states that it's a parallel world. Since I tried to find a definition of parallel world, and it gave me the definition of parallel universe, it's heavily implied that one can't go without the other. You have not shown anything to the contrary.

you searched for a definition only on wikipedia. noone is going to take you completely seriously if you don't use reliable sources... also, this "one without the other" argument of yours is purely based on your opinion and it auctually doesn't have any evidence that i know of.

Certainly, and all of the in-game evidence points to Termina being a parallel world. The manual only further supports it by explicitly stating what most people could already infer for themselves.

the game has characters pointing out as termina being made up of 4 worlds, and what termina is compared to hyrule in MM is never reffered to in the game at all... well, not in text anyway.

There's absolutely no need for translation, since it says this in the American manual. If you continue to deny this, you're only being stubborn.

huh? yes, i know that the manual says "parallel world", but you're misinterpriting what the "world" part of the word is supposed to mean.

What Hyrulean? What if he goes by himself?

well, if someone takes a path that leads to a river, and someone else takes the same path, the person would end up at a river, right?
link takes the path to hyrule. if someone else takes the same path, i guess there is only 1 option of where he will end up.

Has no evidence? Everything I've said in this thread, I have provided evidence for to the best of my ability. If there's a Termina for the Child Timeline and a Termina for the Adult Timeline, then how did the Legend of the Fairy get to Adult Timeline Hyrule? You can ***** and moan all you want, but you still haven't provided an explanation for this that holds any water.

i have an explanation though, that WW was at least originally intended to come after MM. there is no evidence that really contradicts this possibility.

Why isn't that possible? The Terminian is only bound to Termina, not to any specific Hyrule. If there's one Termina and two Hyrules, what's to determine which Hyrule he ends up in? Nothing, apparently.

why is the hyrulean bound to his timeline? how does he have destination limiting powers while the terminian doesn't?

Did you even read the article? I bet you didn't. It cites numerous examples, which you could easily check the veracity of. You're just being lazy and stubborn. I'll give you examples of some parallel worlds.

In the pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths continuity, DC Comics had a multiverse, of which there were several different earths. Earth-1 and Earth-2 were the most similar, in that they shared characters, but sometimes superheroes had different identities, lived in different cities, stuff like that. On Earth-3, the heroes were the villains and Lex Luthor was the only hero on that earth. These are all examples of parallel worlds. When the Anti-Monitor started his quest for multiversal destruction, he targeted these planets. Not solely the planets, but their universes. Not only was Earth-3 destroyed, but its universe was, as well. They were parallel worlds existing in parallel universes, hence the term MULTIverse. Not a universe, but multiple ones. Now, provide me an example of where parallel world means different continents, and maybe we'll have grounds for debate.

so... thank you. i understand what you mean now. you define a parallel world as a world parallel to another world in a parallel universe.
anyway, i have problems with this. Hyrule and Termina aren't planets. well, we know that Hyrule isn't a planet at least. we know that it has other areas on its planet. this has been stated in OoT and OoX. if Termina and Hyrule are parallel worlds, like i said before, this means that they are parallel countries/land masses.

The same could be said for those who outright dismiss everything they say, especially when the source cites numerous examples and the other, being you, doesn't have any.

i'm not dismissing everything they say. i'm dismissing the parts of it that are complicated to average people. chances are that someone will base their opinion on these types of articles. anyway, examples? examples of what? what do you want me to explain?

Just did.

huh? i don't recall that happening...

But all the places on Earth don't have completely different and incompatible histories. We're all populated by humans that have their origins in Africa. We all live on Earth. Earth was created about 4 billion years ago. These are common elements for every country on Earth. At one point or several, all places on this earth share a timeline.

well based on the fact that Hyrule and Termina are connected, we can assume that they have compatible histories. there is also other in game references to these possibilities, such as the triforce symbol around stone tower.

Then when do you suggest OoX takes place?

well i don't want to start an argument based on this, but i believe that OoX takes place before OoT.

How so? They don't follow the same timeline. That's why people who look exactly the same can be living in two different places at exactly the same time. Because they're different universes!

why do you find it so hard to believe that 2 people can look identical in a fantasy universe?

Counterparts in the past, not at the same time. People could've easily moved. And there's no concrete evidence that Holodrum or Labrynna take place on the same earth as Hyrule either. They, too, could be parallel universes.

auctually, impa and zelda got to the 2 worlds on foot from hyrule and stated that they were planning to go back, so they are on the same earth.

Surely the gravity is being altered by what appears to be magic, but not by divine intervention. There's really no reason to think that the world is flat.

divine intervention? who said anything about that? i'm saying that the law of gravity on the planet is simple enough to have it altered in certain chambers and have it available on a flat planet.

Read the article, then get back to me. Thanks. It cites numerous examples of parallel universes in many forms of fiction. You have no support at all.

huh? how do you have support from the wikipedia article anyway? and what don't i have any support of?

No. Because there's no reference to Majora's Mask other than the Legend of the Fairy, and all the other references are to the adult portion of Ocarina of Time. And I don't see how anyone who could misconstrue the term "parallel world" as "lands that don't intersect, i.e. those that are separated by water" could have the gumption to call anyone else's theory wacky.

all other references are to the adult portion? well... i guess i'm still waiting for concrete evidence of this...
it looks to me like my theory of what a world or "parallel world" in LoZ is has good evidence though...
for one thing, "worlds" are reffered to as seperate countries/land masses in LoZ very often.
for another thing, the 2 "parallel worlds": hyrule and termina aren't planets, but rather countries/land masses.
i think this supports my theory of what a parallel world is. i'm sorry for calling your theory wacky, but thats basically what i think about any LoZ theory with no game/manual evidence. your basing your theory mostly on a completely editable encyclopedia that is filled with opinions and sometimes even false information.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

which adult references?

The ones that I've listed numerous times.

the shield could auctually be the hero's shield he used in MM, and as i pointed out, the master sword could just be there to symbolise his actions. there really is no clear references to the statue being of an adult.

Except for the fact that it doesn't look like a child.

no, not really. maybe there are some small hints that can mean many things, but they can also mean what you don't interpret.

Nope. Sorry. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there are times when people are just wrong.

but link is the same person from both timelines, so no matter which timeline he used the timeline in, it still counts as him using it. unlike others, he auctually travelled through time and remembered the adult timeline.

Yes, he did use it, personally, but not in the Child Timeline. So why would a sculpture of him in the Child Timeline have him wielding the Master Sword that no one else knows he wielded?

it isn't confirmed to be the hylian shield, right? young link has used metal shields before. the master sword could symbolize something else besides its timeline usage, such as link saving hyrule with it.

"Such as Link saving Hyrule with it." Exactly! Which he doesn't do in the Child Timeline. And the shield looks a hell of a lot like the Hylian Shield to me.

but he would be known at his current age to everyone including those he met at the start of his adventure at the end of his adventure.

Meaning what? Young boys are given the hero's clothes around the age that he started his adventure. Why would they do it around the age that he stopped? That defeats the purpose of the whole coming-of-age thing.

but the deku tree sounded certain about it, as if his appearence looked very similar to the hero of time. if the hero of time was remembered as an adult, the tree wouldn't have acted that sort of way.

Unless he looked how the Hero of Time did as a Child. Come on. The Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after Ocarina of Time. Even if he was the same age as Adult Link, it would've been ridiculous for the Great Deku Tree to think they were the same person. He just reminded him of him. That's all.

i have looked through the info, but the evidence is lacking and it isn't solid

Let's see:

1) Backstory of The Wind Waker shows the Hero of Time defeating Ganon.
2) Ganon is searching for girls with pointed ears, presumably to search for the Triforce of Wisdom, which he was trying to get in Ocarina of Time as well.
3) Triforce of Courage is split into eight shards because of Link going back to the past.
4) Statue of Adult Link in Hyrule Castle.
5) Ganondorf was put under a seal of sorts.
6) Stained-glass windows of the Sages as we see them in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time.
7) Ganon recognizes the clothes of the Hero and the Master Sword.

Evidence for it taking place after Majora's Mask:

1) The Legend of the Fairy

Hmm...

well auctually, there is another hint that seems to support my theory.
if hyrule was saved in the child timeline, wouldn't that mean that ganon was thwarted in it?

Cue Ganon's execution scene in Twilight Princess.

the time freeze disrupts the flow of his magic...

Having fun grasping at those straws?

because the seal is broken... wait, i didn't explain my theory yet
ganon somehow escapes the seal of the master sword which is frozen in time.
although he escapes the unbroken seal, his magic power doesn't manage to escape the seal and some of the seal slips into Hyrule, making its surroundings seem semi-frozen in time. Also, Ganon's attempt to summon minions with his magic results in the summoning of time frozen minions. The slip of the seal doesn't really affect Hyrule though. its inhabitants and surroundings are not affected (such as the king, puzzle and water)
When Link lifts the Master Sword, Ganondorfs seal is completely broken, allowing his magic to flow again. his minions are freed from the seal, allowing them to move, and ganon's magic is returned to him.

The implication seemed to me that those enemies that were frozen in time had been there since Hyrule was flooded; not since Ganondorf tried to summon them recently. So, his power really was very much sealed.

aonuma auctually never stated "split", "timeline" or any other sort of those words/references in his interview besides the word parallel, which can mean other things. the split is auctually a unique quality that the fans have made up

What other things can the word parallel mean? It means they're separate, don't meet, don't intersect. If two games were in the same timeline, they would meet in a sense, because they're histories and events would effect each other. This is not the case at all between The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

huh? what article?

Knew you didn't read it.

by just existing. its not like that defies any law.

Go on. Tell me how it could work in a way different from how I'm suggesting. Think of Earth. Think of a parallel Earth. Think of how that parallel Earth could exist in the same universe as our Earth. Take the DC multiverse for example.

you searched for a definition only on wikipedia. noone is going to take you completely seriously if you don't use reliable sources... also, this "one without the other" argument of yours is purely based on your opinion and it auctually doesn't have any evidence that i know of.

How do you know that's the only place I looked? I checked dictionary.com, as well. And as I said, all you have to do to check the veracity of the link is to read it, read the examples it gives as to how parallel universes are used throughout fiction, and it gives plenty of examples, check if those examples are being used correctly, and then, if it doesn't check out, tell me it's wrong. Don't dismiss it outright because it has a definition different from what you'd like. And if my "one without the other" argument is purely based on opinion, then how did the Legend of the Fairy get to Adult Timeline Hyrule?

the game has characters pointing out as termina being made up of 4 worlds, and what termina is compared to hyrule in MM is never reffered to in the game at all... well, not in text anyway.

Manual>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>characters.

The manual is objective, the characters are subjective. There is a key difference.

huh? yes, i know that the manual says "parallel world", but you're misinterpriting what the "world" part of the word is supposed to mean.

No, I'm not. The manual uses plain speech; the type we use every day. No one in their day to day dealings would use the term "parallel world" to describe different continents. You're wrong.

well, if someone takes a path that leads to a river, and someone else takes the same path, the person would end up at a river, right?
link takes the path to hyrule. if someone else takes the same path, i guess there is only 1 option of where he will end up.

But both Hyrules take the same path to get there. But they're in two timelines. They both lead to one place, though. So, where does someone from that one place go if there are actually two places he could end up?

i have an explanation though, that WW was at least originally intended to come after MM. there is no evidence that really contradicts this possibility.

You see, that could've worked in the past, but it doesn't work now. How do you account for the Legend of the Fairy being in Adult Timeline Hyrule if Termina supposedly exists in the Child Timeline? You can't account for it, can you? I can, and I have.

why is the hyrulean bound to his timeline? how does he have destination limiting powers while the terminian doesn't?

If you're going to argue that if Link takes the same path he took to get to Termina, only backwards to get to the same Hyrule he left, then I would use that as meaning "bound". However, if two Hyrules can get to one Termina, where does the one Terminian go if he has no connection to either Hyrule?

so... thank you. i understand what you mean now. you define a parallel world as a world parallel to another world in a parallel universe.

No, that's not how I define it; that's how it is defined.

anyway, i have problems with this. Hyrule and Termina aren't planets. well, we know that Hyrule isn't a planet at least. we know that it has other areas on its planet. this has been stated in OoT and OoX. if Termina and Hyrule are parallel worlds, like i said before, this means that they are parallel countries/land masses.

Hyrule and Termina aren't planets, but they are on planets, and planets are in solar systems, which are in galaxies, which are in universes. And no, due to no stretch of the imagination does parallel world mean different countries. Stop it.

i'm not dismissing everything they say. i'm dismissing the parts of it that are complicated to average people. chances are that someone will base their opinion on these types of articles. anyway, examples? examples of what? what do you want me to explain?

Ah, so we should all be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator? I suppose any scientific fact that's ever been proven true should be dismissed as well, just in case poor old Joe Schmoe can't understand it.

As for what I mean by examples; the article I provided gives numerous examples of how parallel universe, means universes that are separate and not connected to each other, but may have some similarities. Parallel world means exactly the same thing. The examples show this. You, on the other hand, have no evidence or example of how when the term "parallel world" is used, it means "different continents." I would like some examples, please, or stop saying that.

huh? i don't recall that happening...

The part on DC's multiverse.

well based on the fact that Hyrule and Termina are connected, we can assume that they have compatible histories. there is also other in game references to these possibilities, such as the triforce symbol around stone tower.

They're no more connected then our universe would be to another that you could fall into a gap between universes to reach. And what's to stop it from being Termina's Triforce? Why does it have to be the same?

well i don't want to start an argument based on this, but i believe that OoX takes place before OoT.

Of course you do.

why do you find it so hard to believe that 2 people can look identical in a fantasy universe?

Because it's ridiculous, it's not backed-up by anything, and the near-explicit thing to take from this is that parallel worlds exist in parallel universes whenever they're used.

auctually, impa and zelda got to the 2 worlds on foot from hyrule and stated that they were planning to go back, so they are on the same earth.

How do you know they walked?

divine intervention? who said anything about that? i'm saying that the law of gravity on the planet is simple enough to have it altered in certain chambers and have it available on a flat planet.

Why would the earth be flat? I mean, just take a step back from your own argument for a second, and tell me why the earth would be flat. Everything you're saying is so much more ridiculous than anything I'm saying. You're suggesting that their world is flat, that people on the same earth can look exactly the same, parallel worlds can exist in the same universe; need I go on? I'm suggesting that Termina has a timeline separate from Hyrule, which, in light of the split timeline's confirmation and the Legend of the Fairy in The Wind Waker, is backed-up by in-game evidence, if it isn't basically true.

huh? how do you have support from the wikipedia article anyway? and what don't i have any support of?

It lists examples of how parallel universes are used in different forms of fiction, like books, comic books, and movies. Parallel universe/world never means different continents.

all other references are to the adult portion? well... i guess i'm still waiting for concrete evidence of this...

They're near the beginning of this post, in case you missed them.

it looks to me like my theory of what a world or "parallel world" in LoZ is has good evidence though...

Except that what the manual says has more credence than what a character says.

for one thing, "worlds" are reffered to as seperate countries/land masses in LoZ very often.

By people and/or narrators, not by the manual.

for another thing, the 2 "parallel worlds": hyrule and termina aren't planets, but rather countries/land masses.

But they're on planets, obviously.

i think this supports my theory of what a parallel world is. i'm sorry for calling your theory wacky, but thats basically what i think about any LoZ theory with no game/manual evidence. your basing your theory mostly on a completely editable encyclopedia that is filled with opinions and sometimes even false information.

My theory is full of game and manual evidence. I'm just going to assume that you have a reality-altering mental problem, in that you can't deal with being wrong. Don't worry, it's okay. We're all wrong sometimes. I'm basing my theories mostly on the games, which, if the Legend of the Fairy is any indication, shows that Termina has its own timeline. After that, I used the manual, which states that Termina is a parallel world by an objective source. After that, I provided the definition of parallel universe in an article which also cites numerous examples of how said definition has been employed in fiction. What have you provided?

Nothing.

Originally Posted by Ogmios22188

Except for the fact that it doesn't look like a child.

how? the height of the statue doesn't represent an adult, because the statue is meant to be large. the shield is metal, meaning it could be the hero's shield.

Yes, he did use it, personally, but not in the Child Timeline. So why would a sculpture of him in the Child Timeline have him wielding the Master Sword that no one else knows he wielded?

they knew that link used the master sword in the child timeline, because we know that hyrule knew that link saved hyrule in the child timeline. link became a legend in the child timeline after OoT according to MM.

"Such as Link saving Hyrule with it." Exactly! Which he doesn't do in the Child Timeline. And the shield looks a hell of a lot like the Hylian Shield to me.

MM which is in the child timeline states that link did save hyrule.
how does the shield look like the hylian shield? do you have a picture of it?

Meaning what? Young boys are given the hero's clothes around the age that he started his adventure. Why would they do it around the age that he stopped? That defeats the purpose of the whole coming-of-age thing.

granny states that link became the same age as the hero in legends. she didn't state that he became the same age as the hero when he began his adventure.

Unless he looked how the Hero of Time did as a Child. Come on. The Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after Ocarina of Time. Even if he was the same age as Adult Link, it would've been ridiculous for the Great Deku Tree to think they were the same person. He just reminded him of him. That's all.

he didn't just remind him. the deku tree was certain for a while until he realised a difference not involving appearence.

Let's see:

1) Backstory of The Wind Waker shows the Hero of Time defeating Ganon.

according to MM, link saved hyrule in the child timeline.

2) Ganon is searching for girls with pointed ears, presumably to search for the Triforce of Wisdom, which he was trying to get in Ocarina of Time as well.

so...?

3) Triforce of Courage is split into eight shards because of Link going back to the past.

When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero.

It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land.

journeying outside Hyrule does not equal travelling back to the past in hyrule.

4) Statue of Adult Link in Hyrule Castle.

it doesn't necisarily look like an adult.

5) Ganondorf was put under a seal of sorts.

a seal with some sort of time defying powers, which could mean that the seal ignored time.

6) Stained-glass windows of the Sages as we see them in the adult portion of Ocarina of Time.

because they could have become sages later on in the child timeline.

7) Ganon recognizes the clothes of the Hero and the Master Sword.

because he could have been sealed in the adult portion, but unsealed in the child portion.

Evidence for it taking place after Majora's Mask:

1) The Legend of the Fairy

Hmm...

well, at least this evidence is solid, unlike the adult references that can actually mean nothing.

Cue Ganon's execution scene in Twilight Princess.

how is that link saving hyrule?

The implication seemed to me that those enemies that were frozen in time had been there since Hyrule was flooded; not since Ganondorf tried to summon them recently. So, his power really was very much sealed.

ganondorf pointed out his minions as an example of the effects of the release of the seal which had been cast upon him for a long time, perhaps during OoT.

What other things can the word parallel mean? It means they're separate, don't meet, don't intersect. If two games were in the same timeline, they would meet in a sense, because they're histories and events would effect each other. This is not the case at all between The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

twilight princess and wind waker auctually can't be literally parallel. parallel means that the lines never meet going both ways, but with a split, the lines do meet, and split off from there. thats not parallel.

Knew you didn't read it.

the... wikipedia article? well, if you're comparing termina and hyrule to earth 1 and 2 in the comics, that doesn't work, because those earths both only have identical looking characters, right?

Go on. Tell me how it could work in a way different from how I'm suggesting. Think of Earth. Think of a parallel Earth. Think of how that parallel Earth could exist in the same universe as our Earth. Take the DC multiverse for example.

all we know is that the masses of land: hyrule and termina are parallel. if they were 2 different planets, i guess they would have to be in different universes, but there is no evidence of these masses of land being on seperate planets. its possible for parallel masses of land to exist on the same planet.

How do you know that's the only place I looked? I checked dictionary.com, as well. And as I said, all you have to do to check the veracity of the link is to read it, read the examples it gives as to how parallel universes are used throughout fiction, and it gives plenty of examples, check if those examples are being used correctly, and then, if it doesn't check out, tell me it's wrong. Don't dismiss it outright because it has a definition different from what you'd like. And if my "one without the other" argument is purely based on opinion, then how did the Legend of the Fairy get to Adult Timeline Hyrule?

the relationship between hyrule and termina doesn't have to follow the relationship of every other fictional parallel "universe".

Manual>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>characters.

The manual is objective, the characters are subjective. There is a key difference.

characters=in game>manual
so what if its a characters point of view? its the point of view of alot of important characters, even including ganondorf and the king of hyrule. anyway, characters are the in game evidence. by denying what they say... you're denying the best source of information possible, and thats just about denying canon.
and by the way, i'm not denying what the manual says. you're just limiting its possible meanings.

No, I'm not. The manual uses plain speech; the type we use every day. No one in their day to day dealings would use the term "parallel world" to describe different continents. You're wrong.

because noone in their day to day dealings uses the term "parallel world" at all. LoZ describes different continents/land masses/countries as worlds, so what would a parallel world be in LoZ? even the manual calls 2 countries parallel worlds. it supports my theory.

But both Hyrules take the same path to get there. But they're in two timelines. They both lead to one place, though. So, where does someone from that one place go if there are actually two places he could end up?

thats not possible. 1 entrance/exit does not lead to 2 areas.

You see, that could've worked in the past, but it doesn't work now. How do you account for the Legend of the Fairy being in Adult Timeline Hyrule if Termina supposedly exists in the Child Timeline? You can't account for it, can you? I can, and I have.

why do you keep stating this? i keep saying again and again, MM and WW were originally intended to be in the same timeline, and even provide evidence. you havn't found any evidence against my theory though.

If you're going to argue that if Link takes the same path he took to get to Termina, only backwards to get to the same Hyrule he left, then I would use that as meaning "bound". However, if two Hyrules can get to one Termina, where does the one Terminian go if he has no connection to either Hyrule?

why does link have a connection to his timeline? you havn't explained this at all.

No, that's not how I define it; that's how it is defined.

don't state opinions as if they are facts...

Hyrule and Termina aren't planets, but they are on planets, and planets are in solar systems, which are in galaxies, which are in universes. And no, due to no stretch of the imagination does parallel world mean different countries. Stop it.

i wont stop it, because you havn't provided any solid evidence against my theory. sure, 2 parallel planets may require a their own parallel universes, but 2 parallel masses of land wouldn't. they could be on the same planet even.
"world" may not mean "country/mass of land" in real life, but it seems to mean this in LoZ, as stated by many characters.

Ah, so we should all be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator? I suppose any scientific fact that's ever been proven true should be dismissed as well, just in case poor old Joe Schmoe can't understand it.

As for what I mean by examples; the article I provided gives numerous examples of how parallel universe, means universes that are separate and not connected to each other, but may have some similarities. Parallel world means exactly the same thing. The examples show this. You, on the other hand, have no evidence or example of how when the term "parallel world" is used, it means "different continents." I would like some examples, please, or stop saying that.

like i said before, it could be a unique feature of LoZ. what other fictions describe "worlds" as masses of land/countries? if we use the LoZ definition of "world", and add another word: parallel, what sort of meaning can we come up with?
here is my idea: countries/masses of land with lines that never meet.

The part on DC's multiverse.

where does it say that the universes have different time flows in the multiverse?

They're no more connected then our universe would be to another that you could fall into a gap between universes to reach. And what's to stop it from being Termina's Triforce? Why does it have to be the same?

k then, how about the terminian gorons knowing about dodongo's cavern? and if there is a terminian triforce, why is there no evidence of this?

Because it's ridiculous, it's not backed-up by anything, and the near-explicit thing to take from this is that parallel worlds exist in parallel universes whenever they're used.

what? please stop using your opinions like that. there isn't any reason why 2 countries full of magic and monsters can't have people that look identical.

How do you know they walked?

because they would have made a reference to teleporting if they teleported.

Why would the earth be flat? I mean, just take a step back from your own argument for a second, and tell me why the earth would be flat. Everything you're saying is so much more ridiculous than anything I'm saying. You're suggesting that their world is flat, that people on the same earth can look exactly the same, parallel worlds can exist in the same universe; need I go on? I'm suggesting that Termina has a timeline separate from Hyrule, which, in light of the split timeline's confirmation and the Legend of the Fairy in The Wind Waker, is backed-up by in-game evidence, if it isn't basically true.

it isn't backed up by in game evidence though. the only thing it is really backed up by is a vague opinion of someone insignificant from an unreliable source of information. my theories at least have in game evidence. yours dont.

It lists examples of how parallel universes are used in different forms of fiction, like books, comic books, and movies. Parallel universe/world never means different continents.

LoZ doesn't follow the pattern of every other fiction. there is no point of trying to disprove this.

Except that what the manual says has more credence than what a character says.

manuals are more reliable than in game evidence? thats your opinion.

By people and/or narrators, not by the manual.

stop it. you're attempting to ignore the authenticity of in game evidence. everyone knows that in game evidence is the most reliable evidence. there is no point in trying to disprove this.

But they're on planets, obviously.

and parallel countries could exist on the same planet.

My theory is full of game and manual evidence. I'm just going to assume that you have a reality-altering mental problem, in that you can't deal with being wrong. Don't worry, it's okay. We're all wrong sometimes. I'm basing my theories mostly on the games, which, if the Legend of the Fairy is any indication, shows that Termina has its own timeline. After that, I used the manual, which states that Termina is a parallel world by an objective source. After that, I provided the definition of parallel universe in an article which also cites numerous examples of how said definition has been employed in fiction. What have you provided?

Nothing.

what have i provided?
i'm basing my theories all on the games. unlike you, i'm not using unreliable sources swarming with false information.
i'm basing my theory on that MM and WW can take place in the same timeline, and nothing has managed to disprove this possibility.
i have stated other possibilities such as the planet could be flat. WW doesn't dismiss this possibility by providing no continents rolling into view like they would if the planet was round. you are only dismissing this possibility because you do not want to consider it. not because there is any evidence against it.
i'm not coming up with opinions and stating them as if they are fact.
you seem more stubborn than me. i have auctually given you opportunities to lean me towards your beliefs, such as the opportunity to prove your definition of what a parallel world is. you have been dismissing every possibility that i have come up with without even disproving them, and stubbornly only believing what you want to believe.
i guess there isn't really a point in arguing with you... even when i find solid evidence, you state BS such as that in game evidence isn't reliable...

edit: the manual states that Termina is a sort of parallel world to Hyrule, meaning that it can easily be different from the parallel universes that you know of.

Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

how? the height of the statue doesn't represent an adult, because the statue is meant to be large. the shield is metal, meaning it could be the hero's shield.

In terms of proportion, it looks like an adult. Would you say that there's no proof that Michelangelo's "David" is a man, because the statue is much larger than any living man? I don't think you would.

they knew that link used the master sword in the child timeline, because we know that hyrule knew that link saved hyrule in the child timeline. link became a legend in the child timeline after OoT according to MM.

There is a legend that he saved Hyrule. It doesn't state he used the Master Sword to do so.

MM which is in the child timeline states that link did save hyrule.

No mention of the Master Sword. Aonuma said that Link and Zelda talked about what would happen if Link opened the Door of Time as he had originally done, and they resolved not to do it. The implication is also that Link warned the King about Ganondorf. None of this involves the Master Sword.

how does the shield look like the hylian shield? do you have a picture of it?

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery...album=1&pos=17

You can't see the front of the shield at all in this picture, but at least from the shape of his face and the length of his upraised arm and body, he looks fully grown.

granny states that link became the same age as the hero in legends. she didn't state that he became the same age as the hero when he began his adventure.

What difference does it make? Both of Link's ages would be in the legends. It's not like only his deeds as an adult were remembered.

he didn't just remind him. the deku tree was certain for a while until he realised a difference not involving appearence.

Certain for a while? He was certain for the length of one sentence. Easily a knee-jerk reaction to seeing someone dressed in a green tunic.

according to MM, link saved hyrule in the child timeline.

Does it say anything about defeating Ganon? No.

so...?

Searching specifically for the Triforce of Wisdom was not a plot point of the child portion of Ocarina of Time.

journeying outside Hyrule does not equal travelling back to the past in hyrule.

When the Hylian text on the frieze in the prologue scene is translated, it says Link went into the flows of time.

it doesn't necisarily look like an adult.

Check the picture.

a seal with some sort of time defying powers, which could mean that the seal ignored time.

This is nowhere implied. In fact, Twilight Princess basically shows that Ganondorf did not get imprisoned by the same seal in the Child Timeline as he did in the Adult Timeline.

because they could have become sages later on in the child timeline.

Twilight Princess shows no indication of this.

because he could have been sealed in the adult portion, but unsealed in the child portion.

Precisely, which is why the seal didn't transcend time.

well, at least this evidence is solid, unlike the adult references that can actually mean nothing.

Right, because something that requires a GameBoy Advance and a link cable to even find it is much more reliable as evidence than things that are readily available to see in the game, like what I provided.

how is that link saving hyrule?

Since he didn't open the Door of Time and grant Ganondorf access, and warned Zelda and the King of Ganondorf's plans, Ganondorf was eventually captured and scheduled to be executed.

ganondorf pointed out his minions as an example of the effects of the release of the seal which had been cast upon him for a long time, perhaps during OoT.

The seal cast on him in The Wind Waker backstory, that of Hyrule being beneath the waves, is a separate one from the seal at the end of Ocarina of Time. Both took place long before The Wind Waker, though. However, he is likely referring to the most recent seal, seeing as how he apparently broke out of the first Sages' seal, which is why he was able to wreak havoc on Hyrule again.

twilight princess and wind waker auctually can't be literally parallel. parallel means that the lines never meet going both ways, but with a split, the lines do meet, and split off from there. thats not parallel.

They share a mutual history in the distant past of several hundred years. The game's storylines, however, and the pasts leading up to them and the events afterwards, are incompatible with each other.

the... wikipedia article? well, if you're comparing termina and hyrule to earth 1 and 2 in the comics, that doesn't work, because those earths both only have identical looking characters, right?

Nope. In fact, Earth-2 has older versions of the characters, as well as different secret identities for certain characters. Such as Barry Allen being the Flash on one earth and Jay Garrick being the Flash on the other.

all we know is that the masses of land: hyrule and termina are parallel. if they were 2 different planets, i guess they would have to be in different universes, but there is no evidence of these masses of land being on seperate planets. its possible for parallel masses of land to exist on the same planet.

No, what we know is that they're different worlds, which, aside from metaphorical embellishment on the part of characters, means different planets.

the relationship between hyrule and termina doesn't have to follow the relationship of every other fictional parallel "universe".

The usage of "parallel universe" is a tried and true fictional convention. Since all fiction influences other fiction, unless it's stated that the usage of "parallel world" or "parallel universe" means something different, it doesn't.

characters=in game>manual

Characters are subjective and opinionated, unlike the manuals, which are objective.

Objective>subjective.

so what if its a characters point of view? its the point of view of alot of important characters, even including ganondorf and the king of hyrule. anyway, characters are the in game evidence. by denying what they say... you're denying the best source of information possible, and thats just about denying canon.

Points of view are based largely on opinion and personal experience, neither of which are necessarily based upon fact, which is absolute. I'm not denying that they say the things they say, I'm denying they mean what you're saying they mean. To them, a different world can mean different continents, but not to a manual writer, who lives among us and speaks like us.

and by the way, i'm not denying what the manual says. you're just limiting its possible meanings.

As I said, anyone speaking about a parallel world in our world wouldn't mean different continents. Since the manual writer lives in our world and was using our speaking/writing conventions, he doesn't mean different continents unless he writes as much.

because noone in their day to day dealings uses the term "parallel world" at all. LoZ describes different continents/land masses/countries as worlds, so what would a parallel world be in LoZ? even the manual calls 2 countries parallel worlds. it supports my theory.

Exactly, at least not to mean different continents. They'd say "different continents", just as the manual writer would have written if that was what he meant. The Legend of Zelda doesn't describe different continents and the like as worlds, characters within the games do. There's a difference. And where does a manual call two countries parallel worlds?

thats not possible. 1 entrance/exit does not lead to 2 areas.

It does if both Hyrules lead to one Termina.

why do you keep stating this? i keep saying again and again, MM and WW were originally intended to be in the same timeline, and even provide evidence. you havn't found any evidence against my theory though.

Whether they were originally intended to go back-to-back is now irrelevent, since it's been confirmed that this isn't the case now. Your argument would've been a good one even up until two months ago. But that is no longer the case. I'm arguing how this problem can be resolved now. You're arguing how it could've been resolved then. That's the difference. Since you have no explanation for how it can be resolved now, you actually have no counter-argument. Come up with how it can work now, with the fact that Majora's Mask does not lead into The Wind Waker. This is what I'm doing.

why does link have a connection to his timeline? you havn't explained this at all.

Why doesn't he? That's what you're arguing. I'm arguing that he could not end up in the Adult Timeline by reaching Termina. Are you suggesting that he could?

don't state opinions as if they are facts...

I'm not. In every piece of fiction in which this is used, that's what it means. It never has meant what you're saying it does.

i wont stop it, because you havn't provided any solid evidence against my theory. sure, 2 parallel planets may require a their own parallel universes, but 2 parallel masses of land wouldn't. they could be on the same planet even.

"Parallel world" never means "different continents". It has never, ever been used in such a way. Give me an example of a work of fiction that uses it this way, and you'll have a point.

"world" may not mean "country/mass of land" in real life, but it seems to mean this in LoZ, as stated by many characters.

And characters, like people, are subjective and not everything they say is steeped fully in fact. Different continents being different worlds may be how they understand them to be, but not how we understand them to be, and not how the manual writer would understand them to be. Hence, using "parallel world" instead of "different continent".

like i said before, it could be a unique feature of LoZ. what other fictions describe "worlds" as masses of land/countries? if we use the LoZ definition of "world", and add another word: parallel, what sort of meaning can we come up with?

Exactly, no other work of fiction uses the term in such a manner. There is no precedent for it being used this way, unlike it meaning what I'm suggesting it means.

here is my idea: countries/masses of land with lines that never meet.

What lines do land have? This is a really unusual way of looking at this.

where does it say that the universes have different time flows in the multiverse?

The heroes of Earth-2 were older than the ones of Earth-1. The heroes of Earths-1 and -2 were the villains of Earth-3. How do these worlds have the same timeflow? They're completely incompatible with each other, some more than others.

k then, how about the terminian gorons knowing about dodongo's cavern? and if there is a terminian triforce, why is there no evidence of this?

There is at least one grotto in Termina that has dodongos inside of it. There's no reason to believe the dodongos cavern that the Goron is referring to is the same as the one in Hyrule. And the evidence of a Terminian Triforce is in the example you provided, in Ikana. And for the most part, it seems to have been forgotten by the populace, since it's never mentioned at all.

what? please stop using your opinions like that. there isn't any reason why 2 countries full of magic and monsters can't have people that look identical.

There is if the manual says they're different worlds.

because they would have made a reference to teleporting if they teleported.

Why? Link teleported. The precedent is set that it can be reached by teleportation.

it isn't backed up by in game evidence though. the only thing it is really backed up by is a vague opinion of someone insignificant from an unreliable source of information. my theories at least have in game evidence. yours dont.

It is backed up with in-game evidence, what with people looking identical and Link falling through what appears to be a gap between dimensions. This coupled with a manual-writer, who is pretty significant in that he has a duty to provide factual information for the player, who says that the worlds are parallel. There is no in-game evidence of Hyrule and Termina being different continents.

LoZ doesn't follow the pattern of every other fiction. there is no point of trying to disprove this.

Please. It has more in common with other forms of fiction than it has differences. Sword in the stone, damsel in distress, the hero's journey, the usage of mentors and demonic enemies, dungeons, magic, time travel, parallel worlds, the list goes on and on. The differences are only in terms of plot and story. The means by which the games explore the plot and story, though, are not unique.

manuals are more reliable than in game evidence? thats your opinion.

The in-game evidence works in concert with the manual, unlike what you're saying, where one of them is wrong. What I'm suggesting makes them both right.

stop it. you're attempting to ignore the authenticity of in game evidence. everyone knows that in game evidence is the most reliable evidence. there is no point in trying to disprove this.

There is no in-game evidence of them being different continents. So much more points to them being parallel worlds. I can assure you that you're the only one on this board that would vehemently defend Hyrule and Termina being different countries on the same planet. As I said, characters have opinions and speak with metaphorical embellishments, as we do. The manual writer, however, since he doesn't belong to the same world as the characters, can look at things objectively, and he has informed us that the worlds are, in fact, parallel.

and parallel countries could exist on the same planet.

The terms are never used in such a way.

what have i provided?
i'm basing my theories all on the games. unlike you, i'm not using unreliable sources swarming with false information.

As am I, but I am also using sources that that don't just state opinion, but reference other forms of fiction which you could easily verify, but are choosing not to. That's being stubborn. If you dispute my sources, check them yourself.

i'm basing my theory on that MM and WW can take place in the same timeline, and nothing has managed to disprove this possibility.

Except for, you know, Aonuma and Twilight Princess.

i have stated other possibilities such as the planet could be flat. WW doesn't dismiss this possibility by providing no continents rolling into view like they would if the planet was round. you are only dismissing this possibility because you do not want to consider it. not because there is any evidence against it.

There is no evidence for it. If a difference between our world and theirs is not explicitly stated, the assumption can be that there is no difference. Magic exists in copious amounts in Hyrule as opposed to our world, this much is evident. Whether their world is flat while ours is round is never hinted at, so there is no reason to assume such a distinction exists. Until proven otherwise, the world Hyrule exists on is round. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

i'm not coming up with opinions and stating them as if they are fact.

Neither am I. At least I've provided sources and examples of how parallel worlds have been used. You're providing your own example of how it could be used. There's quite a difference.

you seem more stubborn than me. i have auctually given you opportunities to lean me towards your beliefs, such as the opportunity to prove your definition of what a parallel world is. you have been dismissing every possibility that i have come up with without even disproving them, and stubbornly only believing what you want to believe.

Honestly, if you're going to believe that Termina and Hyrule are different countries on the same world when all evidence points to the contrary, then you've really already made up your mind and nothing will sway you, no matter what anyone else says. My definition of a parallel world has been proven to be used in such a manner in fiction. What you're suggesting hasn't. What you're saying, such as Hyrule and Termina being in the same world, has been shown to be untrue by pretty much everything I've mentioned. The split timeline has been confirmed, so there's no way that an account of Link's adventures in Termina could reach the Adult Timeline of Hyrule unless Termina has a separate timeline. You have not shown how the Legend of the Fairy can be in The Wind Waker given what we know now. If you can do this while also supporting your other points, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. But you haven't been able to do this. Sorry.

i guess there isn't really a point in arguing with you... even when i find solid evidence, you state BS such as that in game evidence isn't reliable...

Yup, you sure have found loads of solid evidence. Completely unlike me, you know, the one with sources and stuff.

edit: the manual states that Termina is a sort of parallel world to Hyrule, meaning that it can easily be different from the parallel universes that you know of.

It's an unnecessary qualifier, which is a common thing in colloquial English. Don't you ever say something is "sort of" something or "like" something even though that's precisely what it is? It's a way of feigning humility and trying not to seem like you're full of yourself, and it's also a way of defending yourself in case you're later proven to be wrong. It permeates our everyday speech and isn't necessarily intentional.

One could say that he said "sort of" to leave wiggle room for Termina to be revealed to be part of the same world at a later date, but everything is pointing to this not being the case. Because of this, what I said right before this is likely the case.