Alternate interpretation of "ancient demon reborn"?

Maybe we've got it all wrong. For the longest time, we've thought that Ganon's status as an "ancient demon reborn" meant that this was the return of Ganon after one of his defeats in a previous title.

However, I've been thinking, and what if this isn't true at all? What if Ganon is simply a reincarnation of another ancient demon, one that predates OoT? (Namely, the spirit of the magic trident.) This could allow for the FS series to come first, as Aonuma/Capcom seem to have planned.

The main problem is what effect such a placement might have on other incarnations of Ganon who wield the Trident. Juxtaposing OoT between the FS games and the older 2D games doesn't bode well with many of us, including myself. However, the main point of this topic is to discuss the premise, that the king of darkness, the "ancient demon" might not be a previous incarnation of Ganon as seen in the games.

Possible of course. That would explain a lot of things. But the problem with this theory, and many other good theories as well is that they lack the proof. In the time we debate in there is still huge discussing whether it's a split or linear timeline and nothing but a fool proof.. proof can help us out. It is a possibility though. I don't have anything on my mind now that would build up on that ground but I'll just see how the thread goes on.

The thing is, there was never any proof either way.

I'm citing mostly the fact that we say the Trident was connected to the king of darkness, and that we also say that this is his first time to use it. This seems contradictory to me, after some careful thought.

Another possibility: is the King of Darkness even a spirit at all? Mere concepts can be considered "born" and "reborn" in the English language, and the King of Darkness could simply be a manifestation of evil emotions.

If you think about it, the pig form is merely a manifestation of Ganondorf's greed, emphasising that Ganondorf possesses absolute greed and malice in his heart. The nature of Darkness allows Ganondorf to direct and control it with his heart and thus he becomes the King of Darkness.

Yup. In ALttP it's very very clear that the pig is the manifestation of Ganondorfs greed as everyone in the dark world gets transformed into the form that best suits his personality.

I'm guessing that you're comparing the "King of Darkness" status to the "Hero" status, Raian, with someone being worthy of it if he/she possesses certain character traits, as opposed to being incarnated or reincarnated (their destinies or fates notwithstanding). Am I right?

Additionally, the Trident seems to be depicted as a sort of antithesis to the Master Sword. The Master Sword possesses light to banish evil; the Trident possesses evil to banish light.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

I'm guessing that you're comparing the "King of Darkness" status to the "Hero" status, Raian, with someone being worthy of it if he/she possesses certain character traits, as opposed to being incarnated or reincarnated (their destinies or fates notwithstanding). Am I right?

Exactly right. A "spirit" can refer to human emotions as well as sentient entities.

At one time, I assumed that Darkness was also a sentient entity, trying to conquer Hyrule through various manifestations. Now, I see Darkness as having a "nature" in the sense that people with certain emotional characteristics become adept to using it. Zelda is adept at wielding Light and Ganon is adept at wielding Darkness.

I will say one thing. As longtime Zelda fans, I think we need to divorce our old thoughts from our new ones. For the longest time, thanks to LTTP, the thought was engrained in me that LTTP's backstory was the very first Zelda tale (and subsequently OOT's reimagining of it). For now I'm putting the Imprisoning War after TP, so that requires a bit of new thought on the defintion of the timeline. It's almost like believing one thing and then you dig up evidence that throws all of that into question. I think fans are too apt to rest on their old thoughts. At first it might be inconceivable that Ganon could potentially be older than we thought. But I wouldn't care if it turned out to be true.

However, I still think that FSA's story was hastily put together, that it was not done with the larger timeline in mind, that Aonuma just threw it near the beginning of the series so it wouldn't interfere with anything else. Everything I've heard and seen about the Four Swords games just leads me to believe that.

EDIT: I would really, really like it though if Ganon was still the same spirit or soul throughout the series. It's just so much more epic that way.

Well he most probably is. He usually tends to resurrect / break seals etc. and in ALttP he has proven that he can move just with his spirit. It is shown by using Agahnim. After you kill Agahnim Ganons spirit is seen as it floats out. So yes I do think that Ganondorf preserved his spirit all the time.

The emotions theory would make a lot of sense.
The manifestation of evil, greed, and hate making the one evil being that tries to steal the triforce. One thing that I'd question though, would be where he gets his motives from.
What would spawn/where would he get the idea to try and steal the triforce in the first place? Other than it being a source of great power...

EDIT: Also, that repossession theory is plausible.
Ganon's spirit constantly coming back, without being vanquished properly, and using another's body to harbor his evil.
Kinda like Zant, except he didn't possess Zant.

Originally Posted by musical zombie.

What would spawn/where would he get the idea to try and steal the triforce in the first place? Other than it being a source of great power...

TWW introduces in an interesting concept; that the goddesses brought happiness to Hyrule through the elements like the wind, but brought death to the Gerudo desert. This was why Ganondorf coveted Hyrule and defied the goddesses, and could explain his actions in FSA as well.

Yeah, the goddesses aren't very impartial when it comes to who they like and who they don't. Would it be a terrible thing if Link would defy them as well, in order to get some justice for Ganondorf? In at least one iteration of him, at least. Perhaps Link would wish for the Triforce to self-destruct or something.

That'd certainly be interesting. Rather than saving the triforce from one who covets it, he destroys it so that Ganon would never try and steal it again and bring darkness and evil over Hyrule...

Originally Posted by musical zombie.

EDIT: Also, that repossession theory is plausible.
Ganon's spirit constantly coming back, without being vanquished properly, and using another's body to harbor his evil.
Kinda like Zant, except he didn't possess Zant.

That's one thing I wouldn't advocate. I think it would make the body, the thing we see, the thing we connect with, out to be weak, lessening the mythos of Ganon. I know in the long run it would just be the spirit that we would refer to as Ganon, but if one portion of him was just something that he was using, I wouldn't look at him the same, where as if Ganon was reborn in both mind and body, they would both be his own, thus I would see his physical manifestation as a being of equal power. That might be confusing, but if I look at his physical form and see something that's just being used, it completely ruins Ganon in my eyes. And I don't see anything in the series that would suggest anything more besides maybe one unclear line in FSA.

Originally Posted by Mgoblue201

That's one thing I wouldn't advocate. I think it would make the body, the thing we see, the thing we connect with, out to be weak, lessening the mythos of Ganon. I know in the long run it would just be the spirit that we would refer to as Ganon, but if one portion of him was just something that he was using, I wouldn't look at him the same, where as if Ganon was reborn in both mind and body, they would both be his own, thus I would see his physical manifestation as a being of equal power. That might be confusing, but if I look at his physical form and see something that's just being used, it completely ruins Ganon in my eyes. And I don't see anything in the series that would suggest anything more besides maybe one unclear line in FSA.

Isn't the pig body just a manifestation of Ganon's evil spirit anyway? The pig reflects Ganon's greed after all, which puts across the idea that Ganon's body really isn't something separate to his soul.

Originally Posted by Raian

Isn't the pig body just a manifestation of Ganon's evil spirit anyway? The pig reflects Ganon's greed after all, which puts across the idea that Ganon's body really isn't something separate to his soul.

Still, FSA wouldn't be consistent with that; there being the pig, the spirit of Ganon, somehow infesting the man, through the means of a trident.