A few developer-stated timeline placements with no specific in-game support

1) OoT is the IW
(Osawa '98, Dan Oswen '99)
Probably one of the more infamous. We know for a fact though that OoT was designed during its development to play the part of the ALttP IW. Script writer Dan Oswen maintains post-release that the differences between the manual and OoT are negligible. Does this idea still stand?

2) LoZ and AoL come before ALttP
(Miyamoto '98, Dan Oswen '99)
Many were and still are hesitant to follow this because of a certain game box, but Mr. Oswen again assures us that the box is wrong, and Miyamoto is right. Should we take him seriously?

3) FS is the "oldest tale"
(Aonuma '04)
This made enough sense at the time; after all, where was FS supposed to go? It had no connections to any other game at the time. FSA seems to imply a direct connection to FS, though, and seems to happen close to ALttP, and at least after OoT. Did the FSA team render this intention obsolete?

4) TMC is a telling of the FS backstory
(Capcom '04?)
Sure, TMC is missing the maidens, and Vaati seems to explode at the end, but dammit, Capcom might as well have said outright that this didn't matter, because they seem to think that TMC was an exploration of the FS backstory! Looking at the OoT/IW precedent, do those discrepancies even matter?


Discuss these. Hopefully this will open some eyes.

I personally think that in the very end most of the developer quotes will prove true simply because they'll make them true. They would make another game or two to fill in the gaps and connect stuff they want it to be.

As for FSA... It is obvious that it has connections to ALttP but not necessarily close to it. And sorry my blindness but why does the connection with ALttP place it after OoT?

On a sidenote, I'm sure you know this but oldest could have been mistranslated... latest is also a possibility. Such stuff isn't uncommon in japanese. ^^

Here are the exact quotes:

2) LoZ and AoL come before ALttP
"an, it appears something about the The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past translation is jumbled. It is said the events played out in Ocarina of Time were the events that happened in the story of A Link to the Past, and therefor were to solve many story holes. But if Zelda 3's instruction manual is read, these events sound completely different, and now there seem to be more holes than ever. It clearly states on the back of the box of A Link to the Past that it was a prequel to Zeldas 1 and 2, but Miyamoto says it comes after them. What's the truth?

Dan: The truth is, the text on the box (and possibly the Nintendo Power guide) is wrong. D'oh! If you just ignore the box text, the stories fit together better. Basically, the events in Ocarina are the "Imprisoning War" described in the SNES version's story. The Golden Land was the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf corrupted it. The order of the stories is: Ocarina, Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past. Since Link's Awakening was a dream (or was it?) it's hard to say where it fits."

3) FS is the "oldest tale"
"Eiji Aonuma: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that."

4) TMC is a telling of the FS backstory
"NP: This title (TMC) is the third game in the Four Sword series. Did you plan it as a trilogy from the beginning?

HF (Capcom): We did not think to develop a trilogy from the beginning. When we developed the first Four Swords game for GBA, we created a new Hyrule legend that said that a long time ago, evil Vaati brought crisis to Hyrule and people sealed that evil. We had some thought that we wanted to carry over that story into future titles some way."


I don't know where to get the quote for 1.

Oot specifically mentions a war, in which the whole land was in chaos...and there was no Hyrule kingdom yet....I swear I remember that somewhere. In FS and MC, the dang kingdom is already well established...which means there's already no way that the story is before Oot, which I still believe is meant to be the first story. And doesn't Ganon find his trident thingy in FS? Well, if it's before Oot...then how come Ganon doesn't use it there too?

My opinion on this matter is this, one of two possiblities: The people who are translating the Japanse developer quotes are drunk or don't know what the hell they are even talking about. A distinct possibility, some of these suits are public relations representatives who probably think Zelda is the main character of the series, have never played a video game in their life or only Madden '07 and who are only interested in $$$.

-OR-

The developers themselves apparently don't know what the hell they're talking about. Apparently they struggle to even remember the plot details of the last stories they wrote; and, when confronted with and asked questions about timelines, locations or major characters nervously grasp for any idea, any, that they happen to think of at the given momment. Also apparently inserting cannon and gay clowns is more important than proper plot execution and keeping a consistant timeline...

Sorry bout' the little rant folks.

I think it's a combination of both. Many people who work for NoA never actually played those games before. And it is more then obvious that Nintendo got lost in their own story.

You know, I'd like to take a part of that last post back.
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I have absolutely nothing against gay clowns. No offence was intended.

Shiggy's Translation of LoZ coming before ALttP was wrong.

Besides there's ingame evidance and instruction manual evidance that mentions the MS.

The problem with all these informations is that we basically got in-game information (Most reliable one), developers quotes (Second in line, parts of it, usually the key parts, can be doubted because of translation error and yes, translation error is very much possible. If you have a clue about japanese you'll understand ^^) and various instruction manuals and the texts on the back of the game boxes, the later being really unreliable in my opinion.
Everyone takes into account all this stuff when talking about parts of the timeline but it is a fact that many of the things from various sources contradict each other. It is a very big problem and as I said multiple times, I don't see anything we can do before Nintendo releases an official timeline which will hopefully be by the end of this year.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Shiggy's Translation of LoZ coming before ALttP was wrong.

The guy who translated the games (Dan Oswen) disagrees.

"These suits" tend to be very involved with production. In the case of Dan Oswen, he tailors the script and is involved with Scenario and Planning (of OoT).

Originally Posted by Pinecove

There we go!

You tell em Raian. (You copied your sig with my Title. humbug)

That's not Raian.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

That's not Raian.

GOD @#$%^$%^&$*#^&

I always think it's Raian because of that avatar.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

The guy who translated the games (Dan Oswen) disagrees.

"These suits" tend to be very involved with production. In the case of Dan Oswen, he tailors the script and is involved with Scenario and Planning (of OoT).

The same Dan Owsen who's committed many other coke-addled, head-up-his-ass misstatements like this one over the years? Frankly, I put more stock in what Twitchy the Vomiting Hobo has to say about the Zelda continuity than Owsen.

That, and having LoZ and AoL come before ALttP completely belies the third game's very *title* -- "A Link to the PAST."

Dunno from which bodily orifice Owsen pulled that particular "theory," but it's barfulously, laughably stupid. Everyone who was around in 1991 knows where Zelda III falls in the timeline.

Thank you for singing my song Chaos. EVERYONE who played AlttP when it first came out knew where it went in the timeline, Miyamoto's just confused.

When OoT and MM came out he was thinking maybe LA went between them or something.

And it was around this time that everybody nodded dumbly at a guy that was kind of past his prime as far as the Zelda series, and then started ignoring everything he said about the timeline, it became apparent that he just didn't care anymore.

Now you can look to Aonuma for correct quotes.

And sorry I've been gone for a bit.

Anybody miss me? anyone? No?

*the room is silent and then goes back to ignoring QS20*

oh.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

That's not Raian.

I didn't exactly copy it, I made a small addition of my own as well...

Oh, and my avatar is different now, so no more confusion!

Frankly, I put more stock in what Twitchy the Vomiting Hobo has to say about the Zelda continuity than Owsen.

Twitchy the Vomiting Hobo???

Originally Posted by quick_silver20

Anybody miss me? anyone? No?

Uh...Yes, we all missed you! (Even me, who has never even spoken to you before.)