SG's Analysis on TP-TWW Geography Comparision

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

So what you guys are saying is that there are more than just one 'mother and child rocks' and the ones in TP and tWW have absolutely no connection? I very much believe they do ro else why would nintendo even mention them at all.

Let me tell you a little thing about games. When developers like something in a past game, they include something similar in the new game, deliberately so players can recognise it. This is called a "reference". In case you didn't notice, TP is absolutely full of references that have no relation to the storyline or timeline. For example, when Link takes the Master Sword in TP, fog dissipates, just like in ALTTP. A character is called Fado, just like in TWW. Another character says "It's a secret to everybody!", just like in the original LoZ.

The Mother & Child rocks are a reference to the Mother & Child islands. They possess no relation to the storyline.

Originally Posted by Raian

The Mother & Child rocks are a reference to the Mother & Child islands. They possess no relation to the storyline.

I never said that they do have anything to do with the storyline and if you haven't noticed this is a Hyrule georgaphy thread and these rocks have every bit to do with this as anything else, hmph.

It is evident that this part of the zora's domain (mother and child rocks as well as the rock walls around it) will become the Mother and Child isle in tWW.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

and master of alttp please read 'complete rito evolution' by icewizard292

-_-' Would it kill people to use caps? Yes, well, I'm sure that thread is old, and regardless of how old it is, I'm not really up to it. I took a walk in the snow today, and it feels like I climbed Snowpeak, fell off, and then fell in that icy river. Why, you ask? Well, that's because Master is an idiot and decided to walk on a frozen creek and doesn't know when to stop trying to break the ice.

Ahem, getting back on topic... Twilight Princess was filled with references to many games, and many real-world things as well. As has been said, TP had fog clearing in the Master Sword cutscene, and it also has a few ruins throughout Hyrule which resemble real-world structures. Namely, they are the Arbiter's Coloseum and the Ampitheatre of Hylia, which are just names I've given to the Coloseum-like structure in the Arbiter's Grounds and the Roman-style ampitheater above Lake Hylia. I don't care what people call the Coloseum, but seeing as the ampitheater has no actual name and nobody else really cares about giving it a name, then I'm just going to call it what I like.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

I never said that they do have anythingt to do witht he storyline and if you haven't noticed this is a Hyrule georgaphy thread and these rocks have every bit to do with this as anything else, hmph.

It is evident that this part of the zora's domain (mother and child rocks as well as the rock walls around it) will become the Mother and Child isle in tWW.

No it isn't. When I said storyline, I was referring to the timeline in general. References are made in the Zelda series without any consideration for the storyline whatsoever.

Let's use a proper example. Before the two Oracles games were released by Capcom, there were originally going to be three games for each of the three Oracles: Din, Nayru and Farore. However, Farore's game was axed due to problems with the password connection system. In TMC, which was made by the same Capcom team who made Oracles, the three Oracles reappear with no connection to the Oracles games themselves. In TMC, they are looking for houses, which Ingo is building for them. There is a red house to correspond with Din and a blue house to correspond with Nayru. Is there a green house for Farore? No, it was never completed, just like Farore's game was never completed.

A lot of the references in TP were included for fun, not because they were meant to show some sort of connection between games. Mother & Child rocks is a simple re-use of the name to reference the islands in TWW. That is all.

Originally Posted by Raian

A lot of the references in TP were included for fun, not because they were meant to show some sort of connection between games. Mother & Child rocks is a simple re-use of the name to reference the islands in TWW. That is all.

But again, this is a geography thread and i'm saying that the zora's domain in TP isn't close enough to the Mother and Child isle in tWW. If you take a look at the map on page one you'll see its a few squares away. I'm just saying that the threadmakers map merging is flawed.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

But again, this is a geography thread and i'm saying that the zora's domain in TP isn't close enough to the Mother and Child isle in tWW. If you take a look at the map on page one you'll see its a few squares away. I'm just saying that the threadmakers map merging is flawed.

True, the map merging is flawed. We have a scale in TP (FINALLY! THANK YOU, MR. ANONYMOUS ARTIST!) but in TWW we don't. However, I believe we could fix that, if people were willing to do a whole bunch of mathematical calculations based on Link's speed and travel time between islands. I can find a mathematical formula for everything. My specialty is determining dimensions from technical drawings of Arwings and stuff.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

But again, this is a geography thread and i'm saying that the zora's domain in TP isn't close enough to the Mother and Child isle in tWW. If you take a look at the map on page one you'll see its a few squares away. I'm just saying that the threadmakers map merging is flawed.

Because 2 things have the same name doesn't exactly mean they are the same thing.

My name is Chris, and I think Master's is too. We aren't the same. We aren't the same as Christopher Columbus. I'm probably not destined to become some explorer in the employment of Spain or whatever.

Zora's Domain and Dragon Roost look awfully well in the same position. As to to Zora = Rito evolved, riddle me this: How does a Zora become an ancestor of a Rito? Do you think some Rito one day went looking around in the ocean, found a Zora, for some reason they happen to have sex and have a baby, and said baby looks like a full-breed Zora, who happens to be the only Zora in TWW's time?

Such rudeness lol I was called out by Loz historian for being 'holier than though art' and then one of his own wise men does the exact same thing.

Well regardless 'chris' it is what I believe and i'm not going to be convinced otherwise.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

Such rudeness lol I was called out by Loz historian for being 'holier than though art' and then one of his own wise men does the exact same thing.

Well regardless 'chris' it is what I believe and i'm not going to be convinced otherwise.

lol such rudness u hav. See, you refuse to believe in it, you automatically believe it is wrong, and you say you won't be convinced, or try to disprove it. You won't go far in life if you refuse to accept someone's argument.

Originally Posted by Vaati

lol such rudness u hav. See, you refuse to believe in it, you automatically believe it is wrong, and you say you won't be convinced, or try to disprove it. You won't go far in life if you refuse to accept someone's argument.

I accepted your argument and refused to believe it. That's alright. I see two rocks with the name mother and child rocks. I see that they are surrounded by very high rock walls. I know that at some point hyrule is flooded and an island was called mother and child isle. For me personally i deduce that it must be the same spot and place. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

I accepted your argument and refused to believe it. That's alright. I see two rocks with the name mother and child rocks. I see that they are surrounded by very high rock walls. I know that at some point hyrule is flooded and an island was called mother and child isle. For me personally i deduce that it must be the same spot and place. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the Zora involving into the Ruto. What about Mother and Child Island? According to the map, nothing in TP is near it.

Originally Posted by Vaati

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the Zora involving into the Ruto. What about Mother and Child Island? According to the map, nothing in TP is near it.

Lmao i'm debating the mother anc child isle atm but i guess i'll move on.

Complete Rito Evolution

If you take a quick glance you can see that there is a lot of evidence supporting
kakarikio->rito as well as the zora->rito.

On this matter i know that neither have been proven and so I can still be swayed but with regards to mother and child rocks i strongly believe it's the same one in tWW.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

But again, this is a geography thread and i'm saying that the zora's domain in TP isn't close enough to the Mother and Child isle in tWW. If you take a look at the map on page one you'll see its a few squares away. I'm just saying that the threadmakers map merging is flawed.

You are still assuming that the Mother & Child Isles in TWW are the Mother & Child Rocks in TP. The developers didn't have to mean them to be the same to give them the same name.

If someone is called Mario in the Metroid games, does that mean the Mario series and the Metroid series are connected by timeline? No, it's a reference.

I haven't played TP, so I don't know everything about it, but...

- The rito have skin which gives them more human-like appearances.
- The kakariko could have easily adopted the idea of flying and getting feathers.
- Death mountain is supposedly Dragon Roost island which is where the kakariko lived. (before the became the rito)

1: When you make a model for a game, everything in the game looks the same. Unless you use great detail, texture on a skin can look the same. You can't tell if Zoras have skin or scales. Rito have some type of skin from what we see.
2: The Kakariko people lived at the foot of Death Mountain, and didn't go up without the King's Permission.
3: Yeah... I can't just grab some wings, and decide to fly and the gods will give me talons, a beak, wings, and other bird-like features because I decided I wanna fly.

- They worship a fish and suddenly worship a dragon?
- They swim and although flying would be quicker they have no need to evolve.
- The zora have a monarchy and in tWW they have a tribe.
- The zora would have to lose the fins and scales then grow skin and feathers.
- Why would the zora deliver mail?

1: IF, they were to evolve to escape the "fishless" sea of the Great Sea, they must obviously abandon Jabu-Jabu/Jabun. They say Valoo gave them his scale or something, which makes the young Rito grow wings. Valoo could've somehow evolved them, or be Jabu-Jabu reincarnated, so he watches over them
2: They do. Somewhere in TWW (forgot where) the Great Sea is called "fishless" obviously the water is freshwater or the gods did something to it do there would be no fish. Also, being that there is too much water, wings would be great to help them. They can use the wind to travel faster.
3: We used to have a tribe in the Ice Age, and now most countries are usually run by one person who has people below him and help him.
4: The fins as arms can easily become wings over time. We don't know if they do have scales or skin. If something evolves, they change. Its usually not some little minor thing they change like a patch in an online game.
5: Pointless argument. Considering the Koroks are pretty much kids and only venture out of that forest to plant a seed, they can't deliver mail. The people at Windfall and whatever other islands need to use a boat, which is usually slower than a bird, since they probably row or use sails.

- It easier than debating lol.

Yeaaaaah, lets just sit here and agree on everything. That'll solve every question.

*edit* adding to Raian, there are pictures of Mario and Co. in Hyrule Castle in OoT. Does that mean Mario and Zelda are connected? No. It can be an Easter Egg or just a reference for people to reconize.

Arghhh It is Hyrule for gods sake!
The zelga games are connected, they are in the same world, they have many connections and this is one. lol

Even you as wise men must know the difference between EE and connections.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

Arghhh It is Hyrule for gods sake!
The zelga games are connected, they are in the same world, they have many connections and this is one. lol

I'm sorry, weren't you the one who was saying the Mother and Child Rocks were more than just a connection? I guess everyone's a hypocrite these days... Take me, for example. Zen monks stay away from women, but if you knew me, you'd understand why I'm such a hypocrite. Well, I'm sure those monks actually enjoyed themselves before becoming monks, but that's beside the point.

Even you as wise men must know the difference between EE and connections.

We would even know the difference if we were merely Knowledgeable Men. Knowledge and wisdom are completely seperate things. Einstein was very book-smart, yet he lacked common sense. He didn't use shaving cream, for example.

I'm saying that the mother and child rocks are one in the same

mother and child rocks = mother and child isle
(with the rock walls
surrounding them)

Lol Master of alttp, you and your games of wits and words.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

I'm saying that the mother and child rocks are one in the same

mother and child rocks = mother and child isle
(with the rock walls
surrounding them)

Hm... So, are you also saying that the Mother and Child Rocks are located within Mother and Child Isle?

Lol Master of alttp, you and your games of wits and words.

Words are relative to whomever percieves them. Words hold different meaning to you and I. This is especially true in the Japanese language, which is why I refuse to believe developer quotes.

Yessss thanks master of alttp. The mother and child rocks are within the rock walls of mother and child isle.

Hey Vaati go post that in the appropriate thread lol.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

Yessss thanks master of alttp. The mother and child rocks are within the rock walls of mother and child isle.

Then I humbly request that you find these rocks within the Mother and Child Isles and show them to me, or at least tell me where I can find them.