A Helpful Guide to Understanding Others' Timelines, and Revealing Yours.

Originally Posted by Raian

The Triforce of Courage is not the power of the Hero. Link never possessed the Triforce of Courage in ALTTP, yet proved himself the Legendary Hero.

There was never a "power of the hero" in ALttP (to my knowledge).

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

There was never a "power of the hero" in ALttP.

It was referred to as the power of the Knights of Hyrule in ALTTP, because they also possessed extroadinary courage, being of the Hero's bloodline.

Originally Posted by Raian

It was referred to as the power of the Knights of Hyrule in ALTTP, because they also possessed extroadinary courage, being of the Hero's bloodline.

Knights of Hyrule =/= Hero.
Not all of the knights of Hyrule have to be of the Hero's bloodline, either. The hero will come out of the knights, which means he will be a descendant of one of the knights, but not all of the knights have to be (indeed, can't be) part of a single direct line of descent.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Knights of Hyrule =/= Hero.
Not all of the knights of Hyrule have to be of the Hero's bloodline, either.

And you know this how?

Originally Posted by Raian

And you know this how?

Are all of the Knights of Hyrule the Hero?
No.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Are all of the Knights of Hyrule the Hero?
No.

So how did ALTTP Link become the Hero, if he did not possess the power of the Hero?

@ Lex: Yes but not every generation in the hero's bloodline is a hero. Same as with the sages.

Originally Posted by Duoae

Yes but not every generation in the hero's bloodline is a hero. Same as with the sages.

We don't know this.

Originally Posted by Raian

So how did ALTTP Link become the Hero, if he did not possess the power of the Hero?

We're not talking about the hero who possesses the "power of the hero."
We're talking about someone worthy of that power, ergo, someone who can claim the Master Sword, being so worthy. Besides, doesn't Link claim the Triforce of Courage (along with the other two) at the end of the game?

Originally Posted by Duoae

@ Lex: Yes but not every generation in the hero's bloodline is a hero. Same as with the sages.

Duoae makes a perfectly good point. Sahasrahla was not a Sage, yet he was a descendant of one of the Sages. The power is in the bloodline, but there is a trigger that defines the Hero and the Sages from the other members of their bloodline. I call Destiny.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

We don't know this.

Ah, but we don't not know this either

Originally Posted by Duoae

Ah, but we don't not know this either

It's a false negative, then.
You have no proof against it other than that there is no proof for it.
Your claim is that characters we never see don't have a certain quality, which is an impossible claim to qualify.

I refer to the Hero's Spirit again.

Originally Posted by TP

A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage.
You may be destined to become the hero of legend...but your current power would
disgrace the proud green of the hero's tunic you wear.
You must use your courage to seek power...and find it you must. Only then will
you become the hero for whom this world despairs.
If you do find true courage, and you wish to save Hyrule from the horrors it
now faces...

You must persist on the lonely path of the sword to obtain true courage and
earn the strength to conquer the great evils of this world!

As he makes clear, Link's power of the Hero does not reside in possession of the Triforce of Courage, which he possesses since the beginning of the game. It comes from facing and defeating Link's enemies. Courage is gained over time, and the power is deep within Link's soul, not just within his body.

But it's an impossible claim to disprove as well!

I think you meant false positive, btw.

The only thing is that we have precedent for it to occur - the sages/wisemen bloodline.

Raian: The Hero's Spirit is talking about the Hidden Skills. :/

Originally Posted by Duoae

I think you meant false positive, btw.

I never claimed that they did, though, just that you can't prove that they don't.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Raian: The Hero's Spirit is talking about the Hidden Skills. :/

He never specifically refers to the Hidden Skills in his teachings; they form only a part of what he teaches Link. What the Hero's Spirit conveys is a general teaching for how Link must gain the power to defeat the Darkness. This is through learning the skills of his bloodline and through the courage that Link must gain during his quest.

Link is also said to possess the power of the Hero before this, so if courage is the power of the hero, and he doesn't have "true courage" already (as the Hero's Spirit implies), then Faron was lying.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Link is also said to possess the power of the Hero before this, so if courage is the power of the hero, and he doesn't have "true courage" already (as the Hero's Spirit implies), then Faron was lying.

Originally Posted by TP

It was a sign that the powers of the chosen one rest within you...and that they are awakening.

Link has not obtained true courage yet, the power was still awakening inside him. Through the Hero's teachings, Link earned the courage and the Hero's acknowledgement that Link was the Hero.

Originally Posted by TP

You have mastered numerous hidden skills and now house the spirit of the true hero.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

All of them have been said to possess "power", though.
The "power of the Triforce of Courage/Wisdom/Power."

But "power" can mean different things when describing the power of the Triforce of P/W/C. Is it talking about the Triforce pieces having power of their own, or just the power to empower the abilities of each possessor of a Triforce piece?

Originally Posted by ZeldaGamer21

But "power" can mean different things when describing the power of the Triforce of P/W/C. Is it talking about the Triforce pieces having power of their own, or just the power to empower the abilities of each possessor of a Triforce piece?

Exactly. The question has been raised by many people, how can Ganondorf use the Triforce of Power but Link cannot use the Triforce of Courage? The answer is that neither "use" their respective pieces, they make use of their already-inherent powers that have become stronger with possession of the pieces.

After looking at the different "types" of timelines that have been stated in this thread, I have decided to make sub-groups of sorts to help establish an understanding of a timeline based on 3 different factors: Purpose, Sources, and Layout.

This is the format of this post:

I. Factor
1.Sub-Factor
a.Level
b.Level2
c.Level3
2.Sub-Factor2
a.Level
b.Level2
c.Level3
3.Sub-Factor3
a.Level
b.Level2
c.Level3
II. Factor2....

I. Purpose:

This factor of theory consideration is what I was originally going for when I first posted this thread. This deals with your personal goals that you wish for your timeline to accomplish. The reason I was having trouble earlier in the thread was because I was trying to fit in the other two factors into a persons reasonings behind their timeline. Having those factors separate may narrow the possibilities, yet, it will help us realize better the basic thoughts that the common theorist goes through, whether it be conscious or subconscious. Understanding these may help us in the end.

A person's purpose is usually based on 3 sub-factors:

1. The number of games to be included within the timeline.
2. The specific group of gamers the timeline is to impact/benefit or appeal to.
3. The amount of work the theorist is planning on putting into it.

Each of these has different levels:

1.
a. Specific games (typically the 3D games only but can include any set of specific games)
b. Every official game in the LoZ series.
c. Every game (and sometimes more) that includes a character from the LoZ series.
d. Although slightly different, future unreleased zelda games. (This deals with building a timeline with a "safe" approach among other reasons to avoid having to change a theory in the future due to games that are to be released at a later date.)

2.
a. The "Theorist Noobs", using easy-to-understand lingo and explinations.
b. The common theorist, using abbreviations and explaining almost everything.
c. The pro theorist, using intelligent proofs, leaving out common "should already know" explainations.
x. Also, for this sub-factor, any mixture of its levels can be used. (2ab, 2ac, 2bc, 2abc)

3.
a. Very little work, including little to no research.
b. A bit of work, including research but rare follow up.
c. Work, including research and follow up.

II. Sources:

To understand the type of a timeline, one should look at the sources of which the theorist used to create such a timeline. The sources the theorist uses is usually closely tied together with their purpose, however, the two are different enough to be separate factors as they can differ from person to person.

Here is a hierarchy of sources that theorists decide what, in their minds, is most important to the timeline development. Some sources, in no particular order, are:
1.
a. In-Game Quotes
b. Game Manual
c. The Game Arcs (AlttP/LoZ/AoL)
d. Geography: physical existence of certain landmarks at certain times (i.e., Hyrule Castle, Lake Hylia, Gerudo Desert, Spectacle Rock, Death Mountain, The Coliseum)
e. The Tracking of the Royal Family (whether there is a king, who protects them, do they have the triforce, whether they are Hylian or Human, or mixed blood)
f. Races
g. Language
h. Geography: The physical geography of the land itself, the placement of the landmarks in the map (also the way that the timeline works around the flood)
i. Developer Quotes
j. The State of the Triforce
k. The State of Ganon
l. The State of The Master Sword and the Four Sword
m Cameos (characters that physically appear in multiple games (Tingle, the Windfish, the Twinrova)
n. Recurring Items
o. Game Guide/walkthroughs

This source list is not final, and the addition of sources would be much appreciated if noted within this thread.

Aside from the source hierchy, this factor shares with the purpose factor the games that the timeline includes. Here are the sub-factor levels again.

2
a. Specific games (typically the 3D games only but can include any set of specific games)
b. Every official game in the LoZ series.
c. Every game (and sometimes more) that includes a character from the LoZ series.
d. Although slightly different, future unreleased zelda games. (This deals with building a timeline with a "safe" approach among other reasons to avoid having to change a theory in the future due to games that are to be released at a later date.)

Hopefully later, we can establish a more defined section for this factor to help tag timelines with more specific sources types.

III. Layout:

The layout factor deals with the way the theorists wishes his timeline to be displayed to the other theorists of the universe. This too, ties closely with purpose, however again, it is different enough to be its own factor.

Layout plays closely to the 2nd sub-factor in purpose, dealing with the group in which you wish to relay your message to. If your preferred audience is more basic, than you would want your layout to be easy-to-understand. Similarly, if your preferred audience is the more logical and intelligent theorists, than you would want your layout to be well thought out, including several proofs and using good grammar as well as a large vocabulary.

Aside from the intellect level of the layout, this factor also includes the amount of speculation in which the theorist wishes to include within his timeline. Keep in mind that this is separate from the amount of speculation he actually uses to develope his theorist, in fact, everything within this factor affects only the way the theory is presented, having nothing to do with the actual theory.

The speculation really should be displayed on a unitless slider, with an unlimited amount of possibilities, however, for simplicity's sake, I'll post 3 levels that could be found within the slider.

1. A clean, well explained timeline, using only sources to explain a theory with no traces of speculation anywhere.
2. A clean, well explained timeline, but instead of only using sources, the theorist adds some assumptions within the theory, showing what is likely to happen with certain known facts on the table.
3. A clean, yet fan-fictious is ways, using sources to explain the order of games, and often uses fan-fic to help fill in the gaps between the games to better support a readable theory.

Conclusion

I must admit, I got a little lazy towards the end of this as my mind completely went blank. If I need to explain anything a bit better, please bring specifics to my attention. As for the conversation that was going on before I posted this, I am sorry to interrupt. I would be happy to let you continue the conversation within a more appropriate thread, for I would like to talk about this particular subject here. I'm sorry for any annoyances with that, but this thread is what it is about.