A Helpful Guide to Understanding Others' Timelines, and Revealing Yours.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

The power of the hero has to awaken in him before he can become "the hero", or he has to prove himself before the gods via some trial in order to obtain that power.

I would say the same for Ganondorf. He always has the potential to become Ganon, but is not Ganon until he obtains the power suitable to being King of Darkness.

This doesn't disprove my argument. Let me use an analogy that I intended to use in the Zelda Powers script.

"In the situation where the Triforce pieces are separated from each other and become possessions of the three characters chosen by destiny; Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, the pieces act very differently to the whole Triforce. Contrary to the popular belief, the Triforce pieces do not wield magic for their holders and never has it been said that they possess independent magic. The best evidence to explain how they work comes from Twilight Princess.

According to the Sages, the object of Ganondorf’s power was his evil magic; the power of Darkness. And according to the Hero’s Spirit, Link’s power came from the courage that he possessed. We also know from OoT and TWW that both characters possessed and wielded these inherent abilities before and after they received their respective Triforce pieces. If we then infer from this that the object of Zelda’s power is wisdom, then a pattern emerges. The Triforce of Power strengthens Ganondorf’s power of Darkness, empowering Ganondorf. The Triforce of Courage strengthens Link’s courage, empowering Link. The Triforce of Wisdom strengthens Zelda’s wisdom, empowering Zelda. Thus, the powers that the trio possess never change in form when they receive the pieces of the Triforce; they simply become more powerful."

In short, Link awakens as the Hero with Courage. Ganondorf awakens as the King of Darkness with Power.

In TWW, Link is not the hero (indeed, he is said to have no connection) until he completes the gods' trials, and, on a broader level, until he obtains the Triforce of Courage--the "power of the hero."

the Triforce pieces do not wield magic for their holders and never has it been said that they possess independent magic.

All of them have been said to possess "power", though.
The "power of the Triforce of Courage/Wisdom/Power."

And according to the Hero’s Spirit, Link’s power came from the courage that he possessed.

I don't recall that being said anywhere. And I say that with the complete game script in front of me.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

In TWW, Link is not the hero (indeed, he is said to have no connection) until he completes the gods' trials, and, on a broader level, until he obtains the Triforce of Courage--the "power of the hero."

The Hero is defined by his possession of Courage. As Jabun says "it is up to the gods to acknowledge whether his courage is true". Link was acknowledged as the Hero of Winds because he possessed the courage of the Hero.

In other words, the argument that Link did not gain the title of "Hero" before his acknowledgement, does not mean that he did not possess the spirit of the Hero. Likewise, just because Ganondorf is not defined as the King of Darkness before he attains power, does not mean that he did not possess the spirit of the King of Darkness.

Originally Posted by Raian

The Hero is defined by his possession of Courage. As Jabun says "it is up to the gods to acknowledge whether his courage is true". Link was acknowledged as the Hero of Winds because he possessed the courage of the Hero.

Link was acknowledged as the Hero of Winds because he possessed the Triforce of Courage.
He was permitted to wield the blade of evil's bane because his courage was true.

Biiiiiig difference.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Link was acknowledged as the Hero of Winds because he possessed the Triforce of Courage.
He was permitted to wield the blade of evil's bane because his courage was true.

Biiiiiig difference.

The simple possession of the Triforce of Courage did not define Link as the Hero. It was the courage that he had shown in attaining it, which earned Link the title.

Just because I possess a gold medal does not necessarily mean I earned it. Link earned his title because of the courage he had shown.

Originally Posted by Raian

The simple possession of the Triforce of Courage did not define Link as the Hero. It was the courage that he had shown in attaining it, which earned Link the title.

No.

The fact that he assumed it inside of him, which did happen as a direct result of his being worthy to hold it, yes, is what made him the Hero of Winds.

Originally Posted by Raian

Just because I possess a gold medal does not necessarily mean I earned it.

Just because you possess a gold medal does not mean that you assume it inside of yourself, and it becomes a mark on your left hand, either.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

No. The fact that he assumed it inside of him, which did happen as a direct result of his being worthy to hold it, yes, is what made him the Hero of Winds.

The Triforce of Courage was proof that Link had earned the title. But the courage that Link possessed was the force that Link used to earn the title.

Link + Courage = ToC + Hero title

Originally Posted by Raian

The Triforce of Courage was proof that Link had earned the title.

He didn't have the title before he had the Triforce of Courage.
Being worthy of the title =/= having the title.

Otherwise OoT Link wouldn't sleep for seven years.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

He didn't have the title before he had the Triforce of Courage.

Being worthy of the title =/= having the title.

Otherwise OoT Link wouldn't sleep for seven years.

I have no argument against that. The title is not an entity, it is proof of power.

Link possessed courage, proved he possessed that courage, and earned the title of Hero. This is why Ganondorf could not earn the title of King of Darkness until he possessed power. He had no proof to earn that title.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

In TWW, Link is not the hero (indeed, he is said to have no connection) until he completes the gods' trials, and, on a broader level, until he obtains the Triforce of Courage--the "power of the hero."

Also in TP (as stated by someone else in the skeleton thread) it is said that Link posesses the same power as the hero of time - meaning the ToC.

Originally Posted by Duoae

Also in TP (as stated by someone else in the skeleton thread) it is said that Link posesses the same power as the hero of time - meaning the ToC.

Or simply courage, which is the inherent power of the Hero.

Originally Posted by Raian

Or simply courage, which is the inherent power of the Hero.

Is it the power of the hero, or is it what makes one worthy of possessing that power?

Originally Posted by hiddenobject23

The green tunic that is your garb once belonged to the ancient hero chosen by
the gods...
His power is yours. His is the true power that slept within you.
Your name is Link.
You are the hero chosen by the gods.

That doesn't suggest courage. It suggests the ToC because it comes very early on in the game from the ordon Goat spirit. Courage doesn't sleep within someone, but the ToC does... as evidenced by his "birthmark" before aquiring the clothes.

Is it the power of the hero, or is it what makes one worthy of possessing that power?

I agree. I don't think courage could withstand the waves of darkness that pushed back courageous Navi in OoT's confrontation with Ganon...

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Is it the power of the hero, or is it what makes one worthy of possessing that power?

Huh? So you are saying that the inherent power of courage is itself proof of Link possessing another power?

I think he's saying that it's possible that the triforce pieces also have their own power - not just to empower the inherent abilities of the bearer.

Originally Posted by Duoae

I think he's saying that it's possible that the triforce pieces also have their own power - not just to empower the inherent abilities of the bearer.

I think I understand more specifically what he means, but I can't get my head around it.

Link possesses courage, as a simple state of frame. Yet this courage acts as the object of Link's power. As his courage becomes stronger, so does Link become empowered. The Triforce of Courage acts as proof that Link possesses such courage that can only be possessed by the Hero. Courage is a strength unique to link.

Lex interprets Courage as a physical power, which makes the state of frame something much more base.

I have the skills necessary to become a doctor. My skills make me worthy of receiving my PhD, and therefore of gaining the title of doctor.
I have received my PhD, something that was possible because of my skills, which means I now am a doctor.

I have courage. This courage makes me worthy of assuming the Triforce of Courage, and therefore of gaining the title of Hero.
I have assumed the Triforce of Coruage, something that was possible because I had courage, which means I now am the Hero.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

I have the skills necessary to become a doctor. My skills make me worthy of receiving my PhD, and therefore of gaining the title of doctor.
I have received my PhD, something that was possible because of my skills, which means I now am a doctor.

I have courage. This courage makes me worthy of assuming the Triforce of Courage, and therefore of gaining the title of Hero.
I have assumed the Triforce of Coruage, something that was possible because I had courage, which means I now am the Hero.

I agree with this completely. I don't understand where you're trying to construct an argument from.

I do not have the power of the Hero until I am the Hero.
I merely have the potential or the worth necessary to gain that power, to acquire that title.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

I do not have the power of the Hero until I am the Hero.
I merely have the potential or the worth necessary to gain that power, to acquire that title.

The Triforce of Courage is not the power of the Hero. Link never possessed the Triforce of Courage in ALTTP, yet proved himself the Legendary Hero.

Link possesses courage as a state of mind. Link's courage becomes an object of power. As Link obtains more courage, his power increases. The Hero title is acknowledgement that Link possesses courage and consequently power. The Triforce of Courage acts as a secondary proof and further empowerment of Link's courage.