Disproving the "divine prank" myth. *TP SPOILERS!!*

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

Has anyone considered that Ordon's name sounding like the word ordinary has anything to do with establishing an ordinary life for Link? You know, if the Goddesses wanted to watch over him, and they appointed Ordon.

Uhhh... off-topic. And to answer your question, no, I don't see any meaningful connection to the word "ordinary".

I'm referring to the side-topic that was here briefly. Anyway, with Ordon being an ordinary village, and the Light Spirit Ordona guarding it, it could be possible.

Anyway, good theory. Nice catch on the ALTTP manual.

Can we get a word max on some of these posts? lol
You and LOZ Historian should write your own Zelda encyclopedia.

Here's my two cents.... The goddesses seem to be the 'stereotypical' deities. They merely grant their powers to those who will be most amusing to them. They will however intervene if things are too good or too bad. Like when the interlopers struck Hyrule, they created the light spirirts to seal their dark magic and how they left the mirror of twilight so that one day evil would be able to return to the world of light.

As I see it there are only three ways Ganondorf could have gotten the ToP.

1) Granted at that moment by the goddesses.
2) Split-timeline... the Ganondorf in the adult time has the ToP so its effects work through the currents of time so the Ganondorf in the young link timeline has it as well.
3) Since the triforce was already touched in OoT it is no longer in the scared realm which means that the triforce pieces will always go to Zelda Link and Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

Can we get a word max on some of these posts? lol
You and LOZ Historian should write your own Zelda encyclopedia.

What-what?!

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

Here's my two cents.... The goddesses seem to be the 'stereotypical' deities. They merely grant their powers to those who will be most amusing to them. They will however intervene if things are too good or too bad. Like when the interlopers struck Hyrule, they created the light spirirts to seal their dark magic and how they left the mirror of twilight so that one day evil would be able to return to the world of light.

Oh come on. So they are going to protect their world from the Interlopers when they try to dominate the Sacred realm way back then, and now their just sporting off towards Ganondorf to cause a ruckous for no reason. Now if I were a god of Hyrule, I would kill my own a$$ so being so careless when I have to resort to flooding my own world in the end.

I simply don't believe the Gods wish to purpously be hypocritical and give something such as the ToP to someone with the potential to destroy their world they were left to protect. This makes the gods seem "human" in a sense.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

1) Granted at that moment by the goddesses.

Yep. The gods are so dumb, they'll give power even to those that have the potential to destroy their world.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

2) Split-timeline... the Ganondorf in the adult time has the ToP so its effects work through the currents of time so the Ganondorf in the young link timeline has it as well.

That would all be to easy wouldn't it.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

3) Since the triforce was already touched in OoT it is no longer in the scared realm which means that the triforce pieces will always go to Zelda Link and Ganondorf.

This would make sense because the Triforce by law of the Sheika Legend (OoT) says that the remaining Triforce pieces will go to those chosen by destiney. And its pretty obvious that the gods control destiney to an extent, but don't have total control because they give free will to their people - which would make sense becase even the Triforce cannot judge between good and evil.

Would it not make sense if, once Link goes back in time at the end of OoT, Ganondorf (being evil still) is running around commiting his evil deeds in an effort to attain the Triforce, and is then subdued and brought to justice as referenced by the sages? Assuming predestination here (the word "destiny" is used enough in the LoZ series to warrant that assumption), the specific time where Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf gained their respective Triforces would still come, and at that time each of them would recieve a piece of the Triforce, since they were each chosen by destiny to hold the Triforce. However there are three loopholes here (appart from assumption of predestination). One is: were the original sages killed by Ganondorf in OoT? Rauru seems to be the only one left, and I was under the impression that the last Sages had been killed. If there were sages then, it makes my theory more plausable, due to that there are Sages around to imprison Ganondorf (it also kind of helps explain the Sage's physical appearances). The second loophole is: At what point in time is OoT Link brought back to? If he is brought back to the point just after he pulls out the Master Sword (like when time travelling during the game), then the theory doesn't make much sense as Ganondorf would already have the ToP. If Link was brought back (as is implied by the ending cutscene) to when he first meets Zelda, then there is time for my theory to take place. The final loophole is: Coincidence (or destiny if you prefer). It would take a heck of a coincidence for Ganondorf to attain the Triforce at the exact moment he was being imprisoned.

As for the article, I agreed with what you wrote. Good argument

Thoughts/answers to my questions?

Originally Posted by Zelda_Stuff_Guy

Would it not make sense if, once Link goes back in time at the end of OoT, Ganondorf (being evil still) is running around commiting his evil deeds in an effort to attain the Triforce, and is then subdued and brought to justice as referenced by the sages? Assuming predestination here (the word "destiny" is used enough in the LoZ series to warrant that assumption), the specific time where Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf gained their respective Triforces would still come, and at that time each of them would recieve a piece of the Triforce, since they were each chosen by destiny to hold the Triforce. However there are three loopholes here (appart from assumption of predestination). One is: were the original sages killed by Ganondorf in OoT? Rauru seems to be the only one left, and I was under the impression that the last Sages had been killed. If there were sages then, it makes my theory more plausable, due to that there are Sages around to imprison Ganondorf (it also kind of helps explain the Sage's physical appearances). The second loophole is: At what point in time is OoT Link brought back to? If he is brought back to the point just after he pulls out the Master Sword (like when time travelling during the game), then the theory doesn't make much sense as Ganondorf would already have the ToP. If Link was brought back (as is implied by the ending cutscene) to when he first meets Zelda, then there is time for my theory to take place. The final loophole is: Coincidence (or destiny if you prefer). It would take a heck of a coincidence for Ganondorf to attain the Triforce at the exact moment he was being imprisoned.

As for the article, I agreed with what you wrote. Good argument

Thoughts/answers to my questions?

As a matter of fact, I do...

The way I see it is that no matter what timeline you follow the Triforce is split and housed in the three chosen vessels at the end of OoT regardless. Ganondorf gains access to the Sacred Realm when Link first pulls the Master Sword, and we see that, so even if you believe that the story ends with young Link putting the sword back it doesn't change the fact that he pulled the sword in the first place. He couldn't have come back in the past (ie before he even left) before Ganondorf entered the Realm, or the Door of Time wouldn't even have been opened. From what I can see there is no way around Ganondorf getting the ToP in OoT, unless I'm missing something major...

Yeah I never understood what the divine prank meant or why and how Ganondorf was feeding off the Twili's power. And it is all very misleading.

What about Ganondorf's quote at the end? "The history between light and shadow will be written in blood". Is that the connection between TP and TWW? But then the God's save the people of Hyrule by sending the leaders to the mountaintops?

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

What about Ganondorf's quote at the end? "The history between light and shadow will be written in blood". Is that the connection between TP and TWW? But then the God's save the people of Hyrule by sending the leaders to the mountaintops?

Ganondorf is arguing that because of their history, the people of Light and Twilight will fight each other again in the future. Of course, Midna prevents this possibility by destroying the Twilight Mirror.

The officials state that TP is anywhere from One-to-five Centuries after Ocarina of Time, so it is logical that Ganon broke free from the Evil/Sacred Realm, only to be captured by six 'new' Sages. Because of the 'Malice' of the past, (and distinct lack of a Final Sage and Hero) Ganon was too powerful and succeeded in slaying the Water Sage beore succumbing to the Mirror.

I'm willing to bet Rupees to Skulltulas that the Twili's invasion was in the some-odd-century 'gap' between the two games.

OFF TOPIC: I noticed that the 'trigger' used to raise the Twilight Mirror is a GODDESS OF THE SAND. Could that mean that the Goddess of the Sand is the Goddess of Justice, Farore?

Originally Posted by Link-herooftime

I'm willing to bet Rupees to Skulltulas that the Twili's invasion was in the some-odd-century 'gap' between the two games.

Are you referring to the invasion of the current Twili or of their ancestors?

If referring to the Twili's ancestors, they must have invaded the Sacred Realm before OoT, because the war began when the first rumours of the Sacred Realm came to light.

If referring to the current Twili, I'd actually put the Twili's invasion to within a decade of TP occurring itself. What with Ganondorf's power and Zant's abilities, it shouldn't have taken that long for them to invade Hyrule.

Originally Posted by Raian

Are you referring to the invasion of the current Twili or of their ancestors?

If referring to the Twili's ancestors, they must have invaded the Sacred Realm before OoT, because the war began when the first rumours of the Sacred Realm came to light.

Time changes, people move. Like a river's flow, it never ends. - Sheik

Those who fail to learn the Past are doomed to repeat it. One century is more than enough time for it to repeat.




OFF TOPIC: I noticed that the 'trigger' used to raise the Twilight Mirror is a GODDESS OF THE SAND. Could that mean that the Goddess of the Sand is the Goddess of Justice, Farore?

Originally Posted by Link-herooftime

Those who fail to learn the Past are doomed to repeat it. One century is more than enough time for it to repeat.

Yet in OoT, we know that people already have learned the legends of the Sacred Realm. And then, Ganondorf in TP says that the Twili's ancestors have "always" amused him, which suggests that the invasion took place before OoT.

You can also compare this with the Imprisoning War. In that story, the fighting for the Sacred Realm took place before Ganondorf went inside.

OFF TOPIC: I noticed that the 'trigger' used to raise the Twilight Mirror is a GODDESS OF THE SAND. Could that mean that the Goddess of the Sand is the Goddess of Justice, Farore?

There is no Goddess of Justice. The term "law" defines the laws of physics.

Originally Posted by Raian

There is no Goddess of Justice. The term "law" defines the laws of physics.

What about the phrase, "Jurer of Courage", doesn't that hint that it meant a little more into the meaning of just the laws of physics. Also, even if they were just the laws of physics, the creation story in OoT almost speaks of it as an analogy to Justice and Jury. So, Farore could be just in charge of the laws of physics, but still be considered a Goddess of Justice, the arbiter of the world.

Originally Posted by Froboy

What about the phrase, "Jurer of Courage", doesn't that hint that it meant a little more into the meaning of just the laws of physics. Also, even if they were just the laws of physics, the creation story in OoT almost speaks of it as an analogy to Justice and Jury. So, Farore could be just in charge of the laws of physics, but still be considered a Goddess of Justice, the arbiter of the world.

Where is that phrase used?

Originally Posted by Raian

Yet in OoT, we know that people already have learned the legends of the Sacred Realm. And then, Ganondorf in TP says that the Twili's ancestors have "always" amused him, which suggests that the invasion took place before OoT.

"Always" doesn't always mean 'Always'. Man, talk about a tongue-twister! Ganon could have watched their 'pathetic attempt' from the Evil Realm. He spoke of it as though he saw it, not like the fairy-tales I'm sure you're used to hearing (i.e. Puss in Boots, Jack and the Beanstalk, etc.)

I can see it now, young Ganon getting ready for bed, then asking Koume and Kotake to tell him the story about the 'dark peoples with their weak magic.'

Thats a very good theory.

Originally Posted by Link-herooftime

"Always" doesn't always mean 'Always'. Man, talk about a tongue-twister! Ganon could have watched their 'pathetic attempt' from the Evil Realm. He spoke of it as though he saw it, not like the fairy-tales I'm sure you're used to hearing (i.e. Puss in Boots, Jack and the Beanstalk, etc.)

Ganondorf can see events in Hyrule from the Sacred Realm? That's a complete assumption.

Likewise, you're still ignoring the order of events that parallels with the Imprisoning War.

Originally Posted by Raian

Ganondorf can see events in Hyrule from the Sacred Realm? That's a complete assumption.

Likewise, you're still ignoring the order of events that parallels with the Imprisoning War.

That's not a complete assumption. What I'm about to say will completely mean nothing if you think that Aganhim is completely apart from Ganon and that Ganon doesn't control him. Otherwise, Ganon had to have seen the events in Hyrule from the Sacred Realm in order to have Aganhim do all those things that he did.

A common mistake that i've read multiple times is about the sages.
If you are going by the UWM timeline then the sages (saria darunia etc) were never awakened. We assume that they were not killed, they just lived their lives. The sages in TP were chosen shortly after OoT, presumably by the goddesses or even by the king. Becausae the triforce is no longer in the sacred realm they now guard the mirror of twilight and tutor Zelda.

It's not that the goddesses gave Ganondorf power to destroy their land but rather just to spice things up. They would never knowingly give so much power to have their land possibly destroyed.

I'm thinking that the goddesses did not forsee the revival of Ganondorf before tWW. They could have stopped him if they had known about it right? and they would not have let things get so out of control that a flood was nevessary. Perhaps Ganondorf attained a power even greater than theirs, or was revived in a place beyond the control of the gods.

Originally Posted by Cloaked Mystery

A common mistake that i've read multiple times is about the sages.
If you are going by the UWM timeline then the sages (saria darunia etc) were never awakened. We assume that they were not killed, they just lived their lives. The sages in TP were chosen shortly after OoT, presumably by the goddesses or even by the king. Becausae the triforce is no longer in the sacred realm they now guard the mirror of twilight and tutor Zelda.

It's not that the goddesses gave Ganondorf power to destroy their land but rather just to spice things up. They would never knowingly give so much power to have their land possibly destroyed.

I'm thinking that the goddesses did not forsee the revival of Ganondorf before tWW. They could have stopped him if they had known about it right? and they would not have let things get so out of control that a flood was nevessary. Perhaps Ganondorf attained a power even greater than theirs, or was revived in a place beyond the control of the gods.

Their is a more logical explanation for how everyone gets theri respective pieces of the Triforce in TP.

On a Split Timeline basis, lets look at the Skeika Legend from OoT shall we:

If you would seek the sacred triangle, listen well... The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart... the heart of one who enters it... If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil if pure, the Realm will become a paradise. The Triforce...the sacred triangle... it is a balance that weighs the three forces:
Power, Wisdom and Courage. If the heart of the one who holds the sacred triangle has all three forces in balance, that one will gain the True Force to govern all. But, if that one's heart is not in balance, the Triforce will separate into three parts: Power, Wisdom and Courage. Only one part will remain for the one who touched the Triforce...the part representing the force that one most believes in. If that one seeks the True Force, that one must acquire the two lost parts. Those two parts will be held within others chosen by destiny, who will bear the Triforce mark on the backs of their hands.

As you can see, the Triforce has to be split up by means of this legend from OoT's era. Now correct me if I;m wrong, the Trifrce is an object that cannot judge between good an evil, thus it sets as an intiment object subjected to rules not totaly controled by the gods that know what is evil and what is good. So if this legend applies to the concept in TP, it makes since that these peieces would go to those that destiney chose.

But we have to determine if the gods control destiney. I believe they don't because the basis of life in their world is govenerned by the devine relic that the three goddesses left unto the world. The gods can step in and act like they did with the Great Flood if they see their world in parall, but they certainly do not have complete control of everything. Because if they had the power to give Ganondorf the Triforce of Power, surely they can take it away. But this just not the case with your reasonings and i demand a rebuttle to my point.