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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 06:55 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin Shukumei View Post
They are in the same place.
What?
-Gods left Triforce in the Sacred Realm.
-Word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule.
-Hylians in Hyrule began a war for the Sacred Realm.
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 06:59 PM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin Shukumei View Post
They are in the same place.
It's Jin by the way, or Mr. Shukumei
here I will explain: Before the whole "___ hit the fan scenario" both lands were of the same "plane".
The whole disaster occurs with the interlopers and so on, and the goddesses seperate the two lands.
The SR is now a seperate plane, locked and sealed.
understand?

and ice you are the one who is wrong 99% of the time, I'm your antithesis.
I never claim to be right always, but I'm right damn near it.

here i'll add something so you can shut up before you ask it.
They used to be a part of each other, now they are not.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:02 PM
icewizard292 Canada icewizard292 is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin Shukumei View Post
understand?

and ice you are the one who is wrong 99% of the time, I'm your antithesis.
I never claim to be right always, but I'm right damn near it.

here i'll add something so you can shut up before you ask it.
They used to be a part of each other, now they are not.
Do you know what evidence is?
Do you know what a theory/opinion is?
Do you know the difference?

I'm not trying to be rude or anything but what you just poseted wasn't evidence at all.
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:06 PM
Duoae Duoae is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

I actually think i understand what Jin (may) be saying:

Changed meaning from the ALttP Japanese to English:

Quote:
The Sacred Realm is said to literally be another world. However, it is also said to be "somewhere in the world." This may seem contradictory, but it depends on how you define seichi ("the world"). The Sacred Realm can be a completely different world than the one Hyrule is in (like Termina), but nevertheless be in the same "universe," in the sense that the two worlds are connected (again like Hyrule and Termina).
Quote:
The sacred realm is a place where the triforce lies and Hyrule is all around it. They are definitely not the same place..unless you can find a quote that does.
I'm a bit confused why do you say that Hyrule is all around it?
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:09 PM
icewizard292 Canada icewizard292 is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

I thought the sacred realm lies at the centre of Hyrule and they built a temple over the entrance to protect it? I'll go find the evidence because i'm not a lousy debater like Jin.

Translations can always offer errors and mistakes.
Well nobody said it wasn't in the same universe but it might not be.
EVIDENCE!
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  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:09 PM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Well I didn't poseted anything so I suppose you are right, this one time.
Probability states that you have to be right at least once.

I know what all those things are Ice, that's because there isn't much I don't know.
ask me what any word means and I no doubt will know what it means.

and yes I know the differences.
I don't theorize much.
Literally I follow the game and nothing but.
and if it is contested I can just find out the official meaning, by taking the time and contacting them.
But I seem to have gotten the interpretation they meant to convey, that is quite normal for me.
I rarely misinterpret, even incredibly vague things.

I don't post evidence because I figure people can only see what is presented.
Since we all experienced the same thing, I figure everyone should come out with the same interpretation.

Just like you do, and everyone else does.

You came out with a totally off the wall interpretation of some things in this game,
and that is because you endeared yourself to a doomed character and you tried to redeem him in your mind.

You should do well to not accuse others of what you are and hate about yourself.

I base my debates in cold hard fact, I don't have a goddamn opinion Ice.
I will always be better at debate, and that is why you react the way you do.

AND AGAIN, TP presents everything as if it is the first story, they gave it a very odd presentation, perhaps the localization wasn't done exactly as it should have been.

Just one more thing Ice,
WRONG!!!!!!
It was never stated that the SR was situated in the center of Hyrule.
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  #47 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:12 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

The Sacred Realm is the land where the Triforce lies to govern the land of Hyrule. Since it's creation, the Sacred Realm has always been separate from Hyrule. Any suggestion otherwise is simple speculation and contradicts the Creation story.
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  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:15 PM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Unfortunately Raian TP changes alot of things, so as shall the next game, and the next game and so on.

You can't take any past mentioned legends from any of the previous games, because TP puts it's own out there.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:15 PM
Duoae Duoae is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Quote:
Originally Posted by icewizard292 View Post
I thought the sacred realm lies at the centre of Hyrule and they built a temple over the entrance to protect it? I'll go find the evidence because i'm not a lousy debater like Jin.

Translations can always offer errors and mistakes.
Well nobody said it wasn't in the same universe but it might not be.
EVIDENCE!
That's true, translations can have mistakes. But the japanese translation is fairly detailed in what the translator says it can be - both in and of the world. If we are thinking it's like termina then that makes it a kind of parallel world... though i do not think it is a world in the sense we know hyrule or termina.

You also have to remember that in Ocarina of Time the evil spread from the different temples... not only from the temple of time. This means that all the temples are connected somehow and connected to the sacred realm.
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:18 PM
Ich Will Swedish Empire Ich Will is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Some time ago, I was thinking about the realm the skeletal mentor takes you to. He doesn't have to be a wolf there for some reason. I thought it was the realm of the dead first, but then I thought about the Sacred Realm - it looks just like Hyrule but is supposedly "holier", like ALTTP suggests. That's how the realm the skeletal mentor takes you to in TP looks like.

Not much related to the topic, but while we're talking about the Sacred Realm...
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  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:22 PM
Duoae Duoae is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Good point... i did wonder where they were when they trained...
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-24-2007, 07:24 PM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

In the official guide it's referred to as a sort of imaginary/mental realm.
"dream realm" sort of thing.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-25-2007, 07:18 AM
Ich Will Swedish Empire Ich Will is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Hmm, too bad. It would make much more sense for that realm to be the Sacred Realm.
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  #54 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-25-2007, 07:40 AM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

er how so?
it's interesting you would say that, because I don't see any reason for it to be the SR.
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  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 03:28 PM
Twisol United_States Twisol is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

I personally think the Zuna are related to the Twili. Looking at the Wikipedia article on Zelda races, there are way too many similarities between the two to be ignored. Consider this...

Quote:
The Zunas ancestors were the builders of the Pyramid and may be creators of the Trident of Power found inside the Pyramid. The inscription on the stone tablet behind the Trident shows that it was designed for evil purposes by an evil race. One of the maidens says to Link that a dark tribe tried to invade Hyrule, but were defeated and sealed inside the Dark Mirror, found inside the Temple of Darkness. It seems to fit that the evil tribe that was sealed inside the Dark Mirror, are the Zunas ancestors, as they may have used their Trident to attempt to take over Hyrule.
Starting from the top, we have the Trident of Power. Now, what's that thing Minda uses in her Fused Shadow form against Ganon in one of the final cutscenes? Looks to me like a trident... Then we have the "dark tribe" (anscestors of the Zuna) tried to invade Hyrule. Okay. Twili ancestors tried to take over the Sacred Realm instead, but you get my point. Then, they were sealed inside the <i>DARK MIRROR</i>. That just stunned me when I read it. (And who says ALL of the Zunas were banished?)

Astute (read: nitpickers) readers will probably note I cut off the quote at the beginning right after it mentions Zunas had green skin. The atmosphere/environment/whatever of the Twilight Realm likely changed them. Would you honestly look to find people looking like the current Twili in any other place? No, because they adapted (or were changed to conform) to the Twilight Realm.

((So much for a short first post...))

EDIT: Oh, the Zuna are a desert tribe too, so Gerudo-relation claims might still not be far off...
Last Edited by Twisol; 01-31-2007 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Added "EDIT:" note Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 07:14 PM
Jenga Jenga is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Gerudos were banished to Twilight realm, accompanied by other (male) criminals. That explains everything to me quite easily. All their desires and hate basically left them, so all those people with evil hearts were good, blah blah blah blah, hundreds of years later we have the Twilight people whose appearances were eventually warped over time and ta-da that's the condition and status of the Twilight people in TP.
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  #57 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 09:06 PM
Twisol United_States Twisol is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

That doesn't sounds very.. um... my vocabulary's failing me... It doesn't sound very plausible, based on facts, whatever other synonyms you can think of. It doesn't take into account the obvious links between the Zuna and the Twili (the mirror, the trident), nor does it the lack of obvious links between the Gerudo and the Twili.

Here's my trail of thought, from top to bottom in order of thought...

Zuna on Wikipedia
-Dark Mirror (A mirror the tribe was sealed inside...)
--Mirror of Twilight (Hey, that sounds like this mirror here!)
-Trident of Power ((read below))
--FusedShadow Midna's trident (That just stunned me as a chain-link... link, between the Zuna and the Twili)

What makes you think - what supports your idea - that the Gerudo and some other criminals ended up becoming the Twili? (This is no flame post; I'm genuinely curious)
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  #58 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 09:18 PM
Jenga Jenga is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisol View Post
That doesn't sounds very.. um... my vocabulary's failing me... It doesn't sound very plausible, based on facts, whatever other synonyms you can think of. It doesn't take into account the obvious links between the Zuna and the Twili (the mirror, the trident), nor does it the lack of obvious links between the Gerudo and the Twili.

Here's my trail of thought, from top to bottom in order of thought...

Zuna on Wikipedia
-Dark Mirror (A mirror the tribe was sealed inside...)
--Mirror of Twilight (Hey, that sounds like this mirror here!)
-Trident of Power ((read below))
--FusedShadow Midna's trident (That just stunned me as a chain-link... link, between the Zuna and the Twili)

What makes you think - what supports your idea - that the Gerudo and some other criminals ended up becoming the Twili? (This is no flame post; I'm genuinely curious)
Well, I forgot where exactly, but I remember it being mentioned in-game that at first they banished criminals to the Twilight Realm. Eventually, they banished the tribe (which I'm presuming are Gerudos) because they held constant raids or something of the sort. And I believe they became the Twili because...well being banished for hundreds of years into another plane of existence would take a toll on your physical being. And my theory doesn't really disprove anything about the Zuna. I didn't even mention them. Hell, go ahead and just add Zuna into the mix.
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  #59 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 09:23 PM
Jin Shukumei United_States Jin Shukumei is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

First off the "trident" Midna uses isn't really a trident and it definitely isn't Ganon's trident.
The dark mirror also is not the same mirror.

and the gerudos were NOT sealed into the twilight realm, the twili are not gerudos.
The gerudos are not an evil people, only ganondorf is.
it's amazing it's just a video game and here are people persecuting entire races because of one person.

"Oh ganon is gerudo so all gerudos must be evil." that doesn't make ANY sense.
Let me remind you, Nabooru who is far more indicative of the ideal Gerudo, is also the Sage of Spirit. Obviously Gerudo aren't evil, therefore they wouldn't be sealed into the Twilight Mirror.

Also it was the goddesses themselves who sealed the interlopers into the twilight realm.
The hylians only started sending criminals into the TR a long time after this incident.
they were described as being powerful sorcerers and not much else.
There is no connection to the Gerudo, if the Gerudo even existed back then.

Dark Mirror, Magic Mirror, Twilight Mirror each one is a seperate object they are not the same.
just because they are mirrors does not mean they are the same.
They all have different functions.
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  #60 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-31-2007, 09:24 PM
cupac82 United_States cupac82 is offline
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Re: Gerudo mark on Zant's clothes

It doesnt look exactly the same to me, i see some little differences. I don't believe the Twili are the Gerudo but there are many clues that lead up to that.

Another one is that the mirror of twilight is in Gerudo desert so the two worlds are close together. (if someone already said this im sorry i didnt read anybody elses replies.)
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