"The 'Flawless' Linear/Split timeline theory"

All ZU rules apply, no nooby posts, this topic is for serious discussion only.
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Ok, if there is a linear timeline, then sending Link back to the past erases absoulutely everything which happened in Hyrule in the future. You could say Zelda killed herself, but no, she didn't because shes a sage, so she would still exist in the sacred realm like all the other ages. This proves how Ganondorf kills one of the sages in TP. (Or thats what I heard he did). So the sages still exist and protecting Hyrule.
If Link is sent back, then everything is erased in the future, but that is only for the Link that was sent back.
Zelda and the sages on the otherhand, are in Hyrule at the time of Link being sent back. Yet Ganondorf still exists and is in the Evil Realm, so thats the only reason I can find why Zelda still meets up with Link when Link is sent back in time.

Now after this has happened. It all starts to make sense. Link goes back in time, not by the master sword, but by the Ocarina because by putting the master sword back, there is a link between young Link timeline and Adult Link timeline. But being sent back to a time where Ganondorf fails to exist and the triforce has been split into three pieces, even if Ganondorf did exist in Young Link's timeline and even if he did open the Door of Time, he would not be able to pull the Master Sword from the pedestal or claim the triforce.

Now if TP is 100 years after OoT, that lets Young-Link Ganondorf live and die trying to find a way to claim the triforce (which is not possible), it lets Link go on to his quest in MM (opening the perfect timing to escape Ganondorf) and lets TP perfectly open-up as we know it.

And the whole time this goes on, Adult-Link Ganondorf is sealed in the Evil Realm. Then through-out TP Ganondorf breaks free (however he does it, with the help of Zant perhaps).

So if TP comes after child-Link ending, then whether or not there is an exisiting universe in the future, it does not matter because it is explained in my theory how Ganondorf fails to become the King of Evil once more and also how he exists in the Sacred Realm and that (like I said) perfectly opens TP up.


I have no idea where TWW comes into this, but that does not matter know, more playing of TP and discussion of TP events is needed for that.

Ok, timeline-theorists discuss!

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

So if TP comes after child-Link ending, then whether or not there is an exisiting universe in the future, it does not matter because it is explained in my theory how Ganondorf fails to become the King of Evil once more and also how he exists in the Sacred Realm and that (like I said) perfectly opens TP up.

I have not played through the entire game but I can definatly put your evidence here to support the Split Timeline Theory to a stop. The TP Guidebook refers to Ganondorf as "The King of Evil",. This title could only be aquired in the future after Ganondorf recieved the ToP to be known as this.

Indeed. WW does state that Ganondorf broke away from the "seal of the gods". Nowhere doe WW talk about the Seal of the Sages. Since the Seal of the Sages has been known to shut off the entrance to the Sacred Realm, I have heard that in TP, Ganondorf was thrown out of the realm by the Spirits of Light because he was corrupting it. (Refference from Lex). There, Ganondorf was to be sentanced to death by the sages, however, ganondorf still had his ToP at the time to use against them. Ganondorf was sealed into the Twilight Realm instead.

Now, the WW prologue does not state that Ganondorf was revived, but their is a sceen that talks about Ganon coming up from the depths of the earth. The depths of the earth is the Undereworld that TP talks about where Hyrules greatest criminals were prisoned and trialed/sentenced. This of course, is the Twilight Realm. Ganondorf was banished to the wilight Realm when the sages could not contain him to death. Ganondorf was let back into the world of light by Zant and was destroyed by Link in TP. The cutscene does not show us where Ganondorf goes after his death, just standing there in Hyrule field, dead.

The King in WW points out that Ganondorf came back to hyrule in a fury of rage and covered the land in shadow. The problemn here is that he does not say wnaything about him coming from any kind of seal. The quote in the WW prologue sugest that he was infact, revived, after people thought he was sealed away long ago. Now I know that TP does not show Ganondorf being sealed away again, but think about how there is the fact that Ganondorf was sealed away in the Twilight Realm too, not just the Sacred Realm. As far as history records could tell, Ganondorf's whereabouts are unknown after TP based on the unconclusive cutscene after Link kills him. His spirit coud have went back to the Twilight Realm, or floating somewhere in Hyrule, awaiting to be revived. We just do not know. All we know is that WW impies that he was dead and then revied at some point.

And another thing... TP is stil cofirmed to hapen after OoT and before WW by Nintendo even before the game came out. How is it a fair assumption by YOU or anyone that the views have changed. For all we know, TP could have a sequal that will lead more into whats going on before the Great Flood. It is fullhearty for you or anyone to assume that TP is on some other timeline just because TP does not ake clean connections into the WW prologue. Your assumptions as of late are VERY irrational to some points that have not been ovewrited by Nintendo in any fashion whatsoever.

One other point to make. Even if we presume that TP takes place in the Child Timeline after the events of Adult OoT are erased, this doesn't disprove that TWW also comes in the Child Timeline after TP and before ALTTP.

Originally Posted by Raian

One other point to make. Even if we presume that TP takes place in the Child Timeline after the events of Adult OoT are erased, this doesn't disprove that TWW also comes in the Child Timeline after TP and before ALTTP.

Not really. You forgot that the Master Swords chamber in WW depicts Ganon in the Sacred Realm and the awakened sages from OoT (adult ending).

Would someone PLEASE tell me why TP is making the Split Timeline more stronger than ever because I hardly think people should be taking TSA's BS seriously, let alone that crappy timeline that Game Trailers made. This whole publicity is not good enough to enforce this theory unless ther is actual in-game FACTS proving that TP contradicts the oficial word of Nintendo saying that TP would come after OoT and before WW, but with unclear connections into the back story of WW. Have we al not seen an unclear connection to WW's backstroy from TP ending??? YES! GOD YES!!! That is why TP has that conclusion to it screaming prequal all over it! Good god! Some of you dont look pass your faces when things you say don't even make logical since.

LOZ Historian, if none of the games take place after Adult OoT, is it still a split timeline theory?

@_@ my head hurts O_o........

Originally Posted by Raian

LOZ Historian, if none of the games take place after Adult OoT, is it still a split timeline theory?

YES. Because OoT's mere existance makes the futue events, that is theorised to seperate off now, still hold a timeline.

Does that make all of MM's alternate 3-day cycles, those Link overwrites as he passes back through time, extra timelines?

if WW and TP where to be on the same timeline then they at the end of TP a flood would have to begin so that the whole story of WW can be true. IF not then they would have to be on a different timeline enterily. Who knows maybe Links timetravel in OoT change the world so that it created to timelines, the WW one and TP one that way both worlds can be but neither have to cross paths.

Originally Posted by mmmmm_PIE

Does that make all of MM's alternate 3-day cycles, those Link overwrites as he passes back through time, extra timelines?

Well... THAT is the insanity of the Multi and Split Timeline theory. I was only basing my conclusion here by what others theorist like these conclude when a linear timeline is cut off by some time traveling issue. There is simply no mechanics to back this up because no one knows how time works if traveled through.

To answer your question, yes, it does. But I obviously don't believe in such nonsence because there is no mathmatical proof to back such things up. But to a splitist or multi timeline theorist, yes, this creates multiple timeline tracks.

Originally Posted by lost_souls

if WW and TP where to be on the same timeline then they at the end of TP a flood would have to begin so that the whole story of WW can be true. IF not then they would have to be on a different timeline enterily. Who knows maybe Links timetravel in OoT change the world so that it created to timelines, the WW one and TP one that way both worlds can be but neither have to cross paths.

Holy sh:t people!!! TP was NEVER intended to flow into the WW backstory. EVER! Anouma even stated that TP would conect into WW in un expectd ways. have we seen that TP has an "unexpected" ending?? YES! Why the hell are people beliveing TP is on another timeline. Nintendo did not back out on there offical word about Tp coming before WW and after OoT did they??? NOOOOOOOOO! If TP was on another timeline, they would have specified on the ordeal like they did for MM, but not really, because Linear Timeline theorist belive that MM co exists on the same timeline.

This is assanine. Completly assanine. I can't wait until a textual resourse for TP quotes is released somewhere because I have no idea why the hell you guys feel so stongly that TP does not happen after the OoT adult ending.

Holy sh:t people!!! TP was NEVER intended to flow into the WW backstory. EVER! Anouma even stated that TP would conect into WW in un expectd ways. have we seen that TP has an "unexpected" ending?? YES! Why the hell are people beliveing TP is on another timeline. Nintendo did not back out on there offical word about Tp coming before WW and after OoT did they??? NOOOOOOOOO! If TP was on another timeline, they would have specified on the ordeal like they did for MM, but not really, because Linear Timeline theorist belive that MM co exists on the same timeline.

Unless TP has an ending the correspondes with the story of WW then their is no proof that they are on the same field of time, unless the programmers themselves say so! So unless you have a link to a interview where they said for sure that TP and WW are in the same field of time you have no evidence to back up your claim! and I said nothing about MM! I said that the timetravel in OoT! I'll even say it again OoT!! may have cause some odd side affects! If you pay attention to the Zelda seires you would know that time in not linear in those game! Their is no straight line that you can walk, Link go forward in time link go backwards link goes a whole no different universe in aLttP! So you can't even say that their is linear time in the LoZ!

He's right, of course. The ending of Star Wars I in NO WAY corresponds to the begining of Star Wars IV. Obviously, we cannot asume that they are in the same timeline either...

Originally Posted by lost_souls

Unless TP has an ending the correspondes with the story of WW then their is no proof that they are on the same field of time, unless the programmers themselves say so! So unless you have a link to a interview where they said for sure that TP and WW are in the same field of time you have no evidence to back up your claim! and I said nothing about MM! I said that the timetravel in OoT! I'll even say it again OoT!! may have cause some odd side affects! If you pay attention to the Zelda seires you would know that time in not linear in those game! Their is no straight line that you can walk, Link go forward in time link go backwards link goes a whole no different universe in aLttP! So you can't even say that their is linear time in the LoZ!

You know how rediculous this sounds. You can't claim that the seires is DEFINATLY on a Split Timeline basis. TP has NOT made that evedent and you have NOT given me any prof to why it it is on another timeline. Just because this game did not connect into WW right away does not mean that it is on another timeline. You are being irrational. You cant proclaim the mechanics of how time travel works once traveld through. We don't know if things get altered by time travel or if people get doubled or not whil traveling in the time zones or a universe. Your ramblings don't prove anything.

I know there is a link to a interview where Anouma says that TP will connect into WW in unexpected ways than we will expect. Until I can find it, I will post it.

Here is a excerpt from one of my threads showing how each timeline has its owns bounderies and how people decifer for which theroy they believe in.

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The Split Timeline’s Legacy:


Fact 1:


The Infamous Interview With Miyamoto that Started it All



Nintendo Interview Article Issue 2002 ( Q3 )

(GameSpot)

"Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.

Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?

Aonuma: From the end.

Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...

Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years* after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful."

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Here you can see that Split Timeline Theorist derives the point of OoT having two ending. To the theorist it implies two different separate timelines. However the fact here is doubled edged and can also be assumed by Linear Timeline Theorist that where the producers talk about the hundred years branching off of the adult timeline we see it only branching from that point in OoT’s position in one chronological state.

Fact 2:


The Confusion of In-Game References:


There are two main things derived by both theorist and both in-game references have been proven to have a double edge due to the main interview facts being double edged:

OoT (Ending) – Princess Zelda:

Thank you. Link... Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm! Thus, peace will once again reign in this world...for a time. All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time... However, by doing this, the road between time will be closed... Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.
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Here you can clearly see that Zelda says that the road between time travel shall be closed from this point on. Split Timeline Theorist believe that the word “closed” implies that time itself is closed off at this point along with its current and following events. Although it can be argued that the road has been closed right after Ganon's defeat and that is why Zelda has to use the OoT to send Link back. The Linear Timeline Theorist believe this and that time travel is simply being halted at this particular time frame in OoT's future whereas in the past time travel would still be open to travel through, just not to the point of when Hyrule has obtained true peace – as to why halting time travel would prevent evil ones from tempering with the outcome of Hyrules bright new future after Ganon’s defeat.

So both ways are debatable because the mechanics behind time travel are undefined/inconsistent by if things are altered or divided up because of changes such as these presented in the time traveling of OoT. There is not simply a one sided debate hear. EVER.

WW – King of Red Lions:

Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time? Once, long ago, he defeated Ganon and brought peace to the Kingdom of Hyrule... A piece of the Triforce was given to the Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as Zelda kept hers. That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land. Even I do not know where they rest, but this much I do know: they lie hidden somewhere in this Great Sea. The Triforce of Courage is the only key that will once again open the doorway to Hyrule. You must search for it.
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Here the King of Red Lions speaks of the Hero of Time partaking on a journey away from Hyrule. Split Timeline Theorist have made this functionally double-edged by saying that the journey implies a journey back through time away from the future Hyrule timeline. The Linear Timeline Theorist believe that this proves that MM co exists on the same timeline because it implies that the journey is the personal journey the Hero of Time was called on to find his friend after the OoT child ending. Unfortunately this fact is double edged too because of the infamous interview with Miyamoto.

Conclusion to the Split Timeline Theroy’s Stands Here:

Looking at the debates over the years since MM’s development up until now, the Split Timeline Theory and its theorist have had it made with their own little division amongst the timeline debating party. Neither theory can dilute one another or cancel each other out. That is why the mechanics/mathematics of how it happens for either timeline theory to work is resorted to continuous bickering over how the universe works once you have traveled through it by time.

It is a lost battle for both sides….



The Ignored Facts make People lean to the Linear Side:



Fact 1:


The Restated and Redefined Article


Nintendo Interview Article Issue 2002 December ( Q4 )

(Nintendo Power) http://www.nintendo.com/gamedev?gameid=m-Game-0000-823

Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?

Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exists in The Wind Waker.

There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.

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Nintedo Power Magazines took this interview some time after the one in 2002 Q3. Anouma redefined some things that were not accurately explained in the first interview as you can see from Miyamoto’s confusion over the matter. Anouma says here that OoT had two endings, yes, but he defined the ending as periods. Periods in A time. Period is defined as a sole interval point on a line, if I am not mistaken. I believe that if there was clearly a Spit timeline in the making it would be defined that MM took place in a different time DIVISION. But nonetheless it says PERIODS – Two plotted points on A single line. This is a major point made in this interview that CANNOT be defined from two different perspectives unless you don’t understand english. This is a true hard core FACT that is presented in a clearly one-way defined form.

This interview has been ignored by the Split Timeline Theorist and it is up for debate. It was claimed by a Nintendo source and therefore since it is an updated version for the latter one in 2002, discussions should be logically looked off of this one. Although it can be argued that the term "points" is not a term on mathmatical meaning.


Fact 2:


Links Memories and Zelda’s Prophesy



MM – Zelda’s Quote:


You are already leaving this land of Hyrule, aren't you? Even though it was only a short time, I feel like I've known you forever. I'll never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule... And I believe in my heart that a day will come when I shall meet you again... Until that day comes, please... Take this... I am praying... I am praying that your journey be a safe one. If something should happen to you, remember this song... The Goddess of Time is protecting you. If you play the Song of Time, she will aid you...


Here is a genuine in-game quote that no one have ever looked into with any depth. Here Zelda proclaims that she feels that she has known him forever. Since Zelda is a girl of prophesies it is no mere coincidence that she is experiencing disavow. But why would she experience this if the future of OoT has been disconnected and has its own timeline now? Also there is the point where Zelda feels that she will meet Link again. What a coincidence for here to predict that he comes back to Hyrule to give her back the OoT. So this all has to have a one sided view of things. This is a solid fact and I doubt anyone can assume that Zelda is having disavow for some other purpose.

This all needs to be explained by Split Timeline Theorist.

Conclusion Over the New Evidence:

Until further notice, the evidence seems promising enough that Nintendo is has not looked into going on a Split Timeline basis as there own. I have made a conclusion that this evidence stands on solid grounds and any other double-sided views to them is speculation nonetheless.

Note to Opponents and Viewers With Belief in both Timeline Theories:

I am making this thread to get a clean debate against those that still believe that the Split Timeline is a valid view in today’s timeline debates. I would hope that anyone should speak up if ANY of the new-presented discoveries are not valid in some way. As for now I see the Spit Timeline Theory very weak and not that confirmable to any degree at what the Linear Timeline Theory stands here at ZU and possibly other sites as well.

So… I am waiting for a contradiction my fellow adversaries. How can you make these two evidences be double edged like from the other latter outdated interview?

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This all can hopefully let you see why I feel Nintendo is wil not take the Split Timeline as there offical line for the series. I can open minddly see why you could belive in the Split Timeline theory, but your eveidence in TP making the Split visable is not as enforced as you proclaim it to be. You have not even told me why it is on another timeline based on in-game quotes. Just becasue the game shows a lack of OoT refernces, does not mean it is on another timeline. The Hero of Time is mentioned a couple of times in the game. The HoT cannot exist into knowledge in the other timeline becasue his legend is not made complete in a timeline where is future is obselete. So please tell me where your grounds are here, sir.

Historian, he's trolling dude.
"La is before OOt because it begins with Link sleeping"???
Should be you first hint to ignore...

Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years* after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

You are proving my point right their. that is evidence for my side not your. He is saying that their is more then one timeline right in that speach!

Thank you. Link... Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm! Thus, peace will once again reign in this world...for a time. All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time... However, by doing this, the road between time will be closed... Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.

again she says that the timeline must suffer, meaing that it as been broken and is no longer linear because of her mistakes. and the fact that she says that they are closed means nothing, that means the he can no longer enter the timeline, if their a tunnel with a boulder in it the tunnel is closed but both sides are still there.

Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time? Once, long ago, he defeated Ganon and brought peace to the Kingdom of Hyrule... A piece of the Triforce was given to the Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as Zelda kept hers. That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land. Even I do not know where they rest, but this much I do know: they lie hidden somewhere in this Great Sea. The Triforce of Courage is the only key that will once again open the doorway to Hyrule. You must search for it.

I'm I don't know what you got from this passage but their is nothing in this having to do with the timeline except for the fact that it takes about the hero of time getting the triforce but that proves nothing it just states that it follows the path the adult Link time fork where he went away with the triforce keeping it safe.

Looking at the debates over the years since MM’s development up until now, the Split Timeline Theory and its theorist have had it made with their own little division amongst the timeline debating party. Neither theory can dilute one another or cancel each other out. That is why the mechanics/mathematics of how it happens for either timeline theory to work is resorted to continuous bickering over how the universe works once you have traveled through it by time.

right! I'm not saying that my theory is written in stone it could go either way, this is just what I believe and I feel like voicing how I think it went neither of us can say that we are 100% correct.

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