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Old 11-19-2006, 01:52 AM
LOZ Historian LOZ Historian is a male LOZ Historian is offline
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Exclamation Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

First off, the purpous of this thread is to prevent spaming through broad conclusive theories regarding the new timline info as it presents itself through people's discoveries, in general. Because of TP's recent launch there is going to be a great deal of dicoveries everyone is going to be making from TP. Many theorist that are not getting TP right away may be concerned about the new storyline progress while they get left behind in there own ignorance of what is happening. So to insure those that are concerned about this, this thread should serve as an update to what direction TP is guiding refernce to LoZ's coming after it or if it is going on a Split or Linear Timeline basis. Please post ANY Timeline refernce discoveries here in this thread and any other dicoveries that might point out something noteworthy or countradictive to the current United Wise Men's Timeline or any other timeline theories.

NOTE


IF TP presents new timeline info or any other chronological info in some way or form that is speculative (two sided counclusion with no one clear meaning), and NOT directly made FACT by the game itself in text, is still seen as uncountradictive to the United Wise Men's Timeline. Only the info that pesents itself as it is to a reasonable ONE sided, crystal clear, conclusion can it be considered NOT CANNON. Until further notice, and the game has been completed and analysed by those that HAVE beaten the game all the way through, should theories be made by those individuals to conclude countradictive or supporting info to the Wise Men's Timeline in this thread.

Please respect the fact that there are theorist that will not have TP yet and will be ignorant to TP stroyline references. Again, that is why to prevent SPOILERS from being revealed everywhere across this board, all new discoveries related to chronlogical references are to be posted repectfully here and not all over this timeline/theory forume.

Thankyou.

~ LOZ H ~
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You can have a timeline, or you can have canon, but not both . If one strictly follows the strictest form of canon, the timeline is ultimately destroyed. On the other hand, if one strives to create the most coherent timeline, the canon must be broken by corollary. It is the unfortunate world in which Nintendo has placed us, and now it is up to decide which road we shall follow: the road of truth where nothing can be created, or the road of imagination where nothing can be destroyed.
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Old 11-19-2006, 05:20 AM
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Just remember Wise Men / Knights, don't post little details that you stumble across here. PM them to me so I can compile them into a nice thread along with my little details finds (once I get TP). Don't worry, I will give credit to people who PM me little details once I post my thread (but don't go looking for little details).
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:56 AM
LOZ Historian LOZ Historian is a male LOZ Historian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeldaGamer21 View Post
Just remember Wise Men / Knights, don't post little details that you stumble across here. PM them to me so I can compile them into a nice thread along with my little details finds (once I get TP). Don't worry, I will give credit to people who PM me little details once I post my thread (but don't go looking for little details).
ZeldaGamer21, you are distracting the purpous of this thread. EVERYONE, not just you, needs to know these updates on new presented timeline info as it comes. Please let the people speak here if they come across anything major or significant to look at when concerning the timeline developement.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMissingLink
You can have a timeline, or you can have canon, but not both . If one strictly follows the strictest form of canon, the timeline is ultimately destroyed. On the other hand, if one strives to create the most coherent timeline, the canon must be broken by corollary. It is the unfortunate world in which Nintendo has placed us, and now it is up to decide which road we shall follow: the road of truth where nothing can be created, or the road of imagination where nothing can be destroyed.
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:50 AM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Backstory of Twilight Princess -- Ganondorf and the Twili ***SPOILERS***

Long ago, the goddesses created the world, as well as the Sacred Realm. "For ages," she says, "the people lived at ease, content in mind and body." But rumors of the Sacred Realm soon spread through Hyrule, and a great battle erupted in response to these rumors. A group of "interlopers who excelled at magic" attempted to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm with their mighty powers. The goddesses, however, ordered three light spirits to seal away this magic--the Fused Shadows--that these interlopers used to control the Realm.

These invaders were the greatest criminals that Hyrule had ever known, and the goddesses themselves, they say, soon tracked them down. Some of them were brought to Gerudo Desert and sentenced to death. But their sentence was much worse--they were sent directly to the underworld by a powerful cursed mirror. That place became known as the Twilight Realm by its inhabitants. The mirror was called the Mirror of Twilight, and it was guarded by the ancient sages.

The leader of the interlopers (referred to also as a "band of thieves") was a man named Ganondorf, reknowned as the demon thief. Fortunately, his treachery was brought to a halt, and he was brought to Hyrule to stand trial (presumably after Adult OoT). His death sentence was carried out by the sages themselves, but something none of them expected happened. Ganondorf's Triforce piece, the Triforce of Power, helped him to escape death, and he broke free of his bonds and attacked the sages, killing one of them.

In desperation, the other sages activated the Mirror of Twilight, banishing Ganondorf to the Twilight Realm, before he could finish them off.

EDIT: Edited for clarification. [See bolded.]
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:46 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Correction to LionHarted: The band of thieves that were led by Ganondorf were never once called or referred to as the interlopers who tried to dominate the Sacred Realm themselves. In fact, the description of the event involving the interlopers is so different that we can automatically presume that they were separate events entirely.

PS: I have seen TP's ending. The Twilight Mirror is not the Dark Mirror and the Twili are not the Dark Tribe.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:52 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raian View Post
Correction to LionHarted: The band of thieves that were led by Ganondorf were never once called or referred to as the interlopers. Their domination of the Sacred Realm was a separate event entirely.
Both the band of thieves led by Ganondorf and the interlopers are referred to as trying to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. Based on the similarities between Midna's human form and the Gerudo, and the obvious ties between Zant and the Gerudo, I'd wager to say that, yes, they are the same group. Ganondorf is simply banished separately; not by the Light Spirits, but by the sages. This in and of itself doesn't make the two automatically different--there are more similarities than anything else.

There really aren't any differences between the descriptions of the events involving the interlopers and Ganondorf's conquest, because there really aren't any details at all given about Ganondorf's conquest. This actually suggests congruence more than anything else, because we seem to be expected to make the connection ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raian
I have seen TP's ending. The Twilight Mirror is not the Dark Mirror and the Twili are not the Dark Tribe.
You don't know that, actually.

Since the Twilight Mirror has the same powers as the Dark Mirror--it acts as a portal, was used to seal a dark tribe, and reflects the evil in people's hearts--I'd wager to say that, yes, they are the same. Despite it breaking (again), the ending suggests that Link will see Midna again. "Well, the princess spoke truly: as long as that mirror's around, we could meet again... Link... I... See you later..." Midna then proceeds to break the mirror. If he could repair it once, and was determined enough to see Midna again (watch his reactions again), he could repair it (again).

Of course, without the reparation scene at my disposal, it's too soon to make a judgment call, but still...

I smell a sequel...
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:57 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by LexLionHart View Post
Both the band of thieves led by Ganondorf and the interlopers are referred to as trying to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. Based on the similarities between Midna's human form and the Gerudo, and the obvious ties between Zant and the Gerudo, I'd wager to say that, yes, they are the same group. Ganondorf is simply banished separately; not by the Light Spirits, but by the sages.
I've got nothing wrong with Ganondorf being descended from the interlopers based on the symbology. What I'm establishing is that the sealing of the Tribe and the sealing of Ganondorf were two separate events.

Quote:
Since the Twilight Mirror has the same powers as the Dark Mirror--it acts as a portal, was used to seal a dark tribe, and reflects the evil in people's hearts--I'd wager to say that, yes, they are the same. Despite it breaking (again), the ending suggests that Link will see Midna again. "Well, the princess spoke truly: as long as that mirror's around, we could meet again... Link... I... See you later..." Midna then proceeds to break the mirror. If he could repair it once, and was determined enough to see Midna again (watch his reactions again), he could repair it again.

I smell a sequel...
She said that they would meet again as long as the Mirror remains intact, which she then ultimately destroys as it was emphasised in earlier text. They are both alternate dimensions to Hyrule so in that respect, they are in meeting. But the passage between Hyrule and Twilight was completely broken by Midna's action.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:58 PM
Vaati 2705 Vaati 2705 is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Wow... Ganondorf did break the seal. and also proves the theory that sages are alive. ok nice findings =)
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:59 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Vaati 2705 View Post
Wow... Ganondorf did break the seal.
No, he didn't. He was brought to Hyrule to face a death sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raian
I've got nothing wrong with Ganondorf being descended from the interlopers based on the symbology. What I'm establishing is that the sealing of the Tribe and the sealing of Ganondorf were two separate events.
Ganondorf cannot be "descended from" the interlopers, since the Sacred Realm could not have been entered until OoT. I agree that the sealing of the tribe and the sealing of Ganondorf were two separate events; I believe that the attempts to take control of the Realm were connected, and possibly both came about during the seven year sleep during OoT, or perhaps shortly thereafter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raian
But the passage between Hyrule and Twilight was completely broken by Midna's action.
Since when has a seal between dimensions ever been permanent in the Zelda series? Either way, the mirror is fragmented again, albeit, more completely, in which case its shards still pose a threat. This time, there happen to be more of them. This lends itself wonderfully to a sequel.
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Old 11-20-2006, 03:04 PM
Vaati 2705 Vaati 2705 is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexLionHart
Ganondorf's Triforce piece, the Triforce of Power, helped him to escape death, and he broke free of his bonds and attacked the sages, killing one of them.
That sounds like he did =s
PS: I have not played the game yet, I'm based on your earlier post.

edit// Did you finish the game already?? O.O
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Old 11-20-2006, 04:32 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Vaati 2705 View Post
That sounds like he did =s
Those are chains, not the gateway to the realm.
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Old 11-20-2006, 04:56 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

After rewatching the ending, I can confirm that Midna utterly destroyed the Twilight Mirror because the shards that were made dissolved with little sparkles. Unless FSA comes before OoT-TP (highly unlikely), the Twilight Mirror and Dark Mirror cannot be the same.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:15 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Raian View Post
After rewatching the ending, I can confirm that Midna utterly destroyed the Twilight Mirror because the shards that were made dissolved with little sparkles.
I concede the point.
Quote:
Unless FSA comes before OoT-TP (highly unlikely), the Twilight Mirror and Dark Mirror cannot be the same.
Depends. We still have the Fused Shadows, don't we?
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:44 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by LexLionHart View Post
Depends. We still have the Fused Shadows, don't we?
We also see Ganondorf crushing one of the Fused Shadow pieces with his bare hands. This implies to me that the power of the Fused Shadow has been destroyed by Ganon's superior power, leaving only the stone fragments behind.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:47 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Raian View Post
This implies to me that the power of the Fused Shadow has been destroyed by Ganon's superior power, leaving only the stone fragments behind.
Remember, though, that dark relics still have dark power, fragmented or not. This is evident with the Mirror of Twilight; it can be presumed to be the case with the Fused Shadows as well, since they appear to be only that--fragmented--not destroyed.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:49 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by LexLionHart View Post
Remember, though, that dark relics still have dark power, fragmented or not. This is evident with the Mirror of Twilight; it can be presumed to be the case with the Fused Shadows as well, since they appear to be only that--fragmented--not destroyed.
That is true, but the emphasis on Ganon's hand crumbling the relic, not with dark magic but just his own fist, stongly implies to me that it has lost its power.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:55 PM
LOZ Historian LOZ Historian is a male LOZ Historian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Even if the Dark Mirror is NOT the Mirror of Twilight, we can stil confirm that there is SOME kind of Mirror in wich is distorting the land with evil shadow creatures (Shadow Link), and seeems to be presenting a connection between the light world and dark world again in FSA. I say that the Dark World in this reference is acting like the very Twilight Realm we see in TP, because of the mirror's power being used.

PLUS their is the fact that the Sacred Realm is purified again as it can be explianed now how it stay that way until before ALttP.

I think you are in denial Raian. The eveidence Lex is presenting is not as bold as you think he is decifering them. TP definatly makes a strong connection to FSA happening where we have it in our timeline, and it does not have to be before WW now because of the eveidence. Ganondorf stil has the Triforce of Power, which still is leaving room for other LoZ's to come before WW, if needed.
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You can have a timeline, or you can have canon, but not both . If one strictly follows the strictest form of canon, the timeline is ultimately destroyed. On the other hand, if one strives to create the most coherent timeline, the canon must be broken by corollary. It is the unfortunate world in which Nintendo has placed us, and now it is up to decide which road we shall follow: the road of truth where nothing can be created, or the road of imagination where nothing can be destroyed.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:00 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

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Originally Posted by LOZ Historian View Post
I think you are in denial Raian. The eveidence Lex is presenting is not as bold as you think he is decifering them. TP definatly makes a strong connection to FSA happening where we have it in our timeline, and it does not have to be before WW now because of the eveidence. Ganondorf stil has the Triforce of Power, which still is leaving room for other LoZ's to come before WW, if needed.
I'm not disagreeing with the connections, I'm trying to work around the fact that Nintendo made the games impossible to connect smoothly.

1) The Twilight Mirror was stated to be the one and only connection to the Twilight Realm and this was utterly destroyed at the end of TP. Unless a new connection can be re-established, this makes the Dark Tribe/Dark Mirror connection to TP impossible.

2) Does Ganon have the Triforce of Power after death? The symbol fades away before he dies. Likewise, LoZ's Ganon loses the Triforce of Power when he dies.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:00 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOZ Historian View Post
Even if the Dark Mirror is NOT the Mirror of Twilight, we can stil confirm that there is SOME kind of Mirror in wich is distorting the land with evil shadow creatures (Shadow Link), and seeems to be presenting a connection between the light world and dark world again in FSA. I say that the Dark World in this reference is acting like the very Twilight Realm we see in TP, because of the mirror's power being used.
Shadow Link, in all actuality, never really appears in this game.

The Dark World, in turn, doesn't necessarily appear as a result of the Mirror, but, rather, as a result of the Trident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOZ
PLUS their is the fact that the Sacred Realm is purified again as it can be explianed now how it stay that way until before ALttP.
This I agree with, although, frankly, I'm starting to be of the opinion that the 3D games are overwriting the 2D games timeline-wise rather than adding to them. Old canon (NES-SNES-GB continuity) vs. new canon (N64-GC-Wii-DS continuity). A bit anarchist, I know, but at the very least the continuities within these two categories can be clearly sorted out, albeit, especially now, not really reconciled. No, I'm not talking a split. I'm talking two entirely seperate, non-coexisting continuities.

But we'll have to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOZ
TP definatly makes a strong connection to FSA happening where we have it in our timeline, and it does not have to be before WW now because of the eveidence. Ganondorf stil has the Triforce of Power, which still is leaving room for other LoZ's to come before WW, if needed.
Yes, it does. It takes place before TWW (or, at least, not after it). I guarantee it.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:02 PM
Raian United Kingdom Raian is offline
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Re: Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

^Those last two quotes weren't made by me.
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