Timeline Update Thread for TP Discoveries

Originally Posted by Raian

Ganondorf in said to "rise from the depths of the earth" in TWW's intro and he was also said to have been revived after he was sealed in the Sacred Realm further along in TWW's script.

Actually, this is the standing alone quote from WW that gives hope to the Linear Timeline still. Ganondorf dieing at the end of TP pens the door that he will be revived and wil come back at some point to get revenge on Hyrule.

Before TP the wise men's timeline made perfect sence...But, somehow I can't see TP going where it does and the Wisemen's timeline holding up. Yet I did miss some text in the game, so I hope that I might get cleared up about the timeline!

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

Before TP the wise men's timeline made perfect sence...But, somehow I can't see TP going where it does and the Wisemen's timeline holding up. Yet I did miss some text in the game, so I hope that I might get cleared up about the timeline!

Just because Ganondorf dies at the end does not mess up the Wie Men's timeline. Please tell me why people are beliving that TP makes the Split Timeline theory have more support?! TP was already CONFIRMED to be after OoT and before WW.

Some of you are forgetting that in the WW prologue it says that Ganon/dorf is revived unexpectidly. Ganon/dorf must die, in order to be revied. Plus also note that WW makes no refference of the Seal of the Sages either - hinting that it plays no relevance anymore now that Ganon died in Hyrule somewhere and not within the Sacred Realm, where he was alive, not dead.

The problems I have with it, is there is barely any mention of the Hero of Time. Just 2, that I counted, I'm playing again to make sure! And these two refrences aren't that significant. Almost so insignificant that one could say they could be refering to anyone dressed in Green who fought evil...every Link that there's been! Really, there's nothing in the game that makes me think that it takes place before or after OoT and TWW. Except the geography is somewhat tied to OoT's, barely though.

I can truely see why Gamespot gave it 8.8, maybe more like a 9.5 or so, but, the game doesn't give me the feeling of .... that OoT feeling?

I think in order to please fans Nintendo must make refreance to The Hero of Time more. TWW did, but, the graphics were, childish, imagine TP with much more of continuty of OoT? That is what everyone was looking for, sadly, it's not what I got. I got a great game, one that is truely the APP for the Nintendo Wii. That and the game is no where near as long as Nintendo said...40 hours, they said 70?

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

The problems I have with it, is there is barely any mention of the Hero of Time. Just 2, that I counted, I'm playing again to make sure! And these two refrences aren't that significant. Almost so insignificant that one could say they could be refering to anyone dressed in Green who fought evil...every Link that there's been! Really, there's nothing in the game that makes me think that it takes place before or after OoT and TWW. Except the geography is somewhat tied to OoT's, barely though.

Hmmmm.... Only TWO. Well, that is barely enough to prove its place after OoT, along with Ganondorf still having the ToP too... How dissapointing though. I am still eager to play either way. I guess it really was not that hard of a game after all.

So far, I see nothing conclusive from TP as far as timeline goes. It neither does harm or good to the Linear or Split Timeline Theories. PERIOD. It does nothing towards the timeline. And who is to blame??? Miyamoto, no surprise. He had his hand in stroyline more than he allowed Anouma, so I have heard, So to me, TP is just "there", uneffecting anything in the overall timeline scheme.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

Hmmmm.... Only TWO. Well, that is barely enough to prove its place after OoT, along with Ganondorf still having the ToP too... How dissapointing though. I am still eager to play either way. I guess it really was not that hard of a game after all.

So far, I see nothing conclusive from TP as far as timeline goes. It neither does harm or good to the Linear or Split Timeline Theories. PERIOD. It does nothing towards the timeline. And who is to blame??? Miyamoto, no surprise. He had his hand in stroyline more than he allowed Anouma, so I have heard, So to me, TP is just "there", uneffecting anything in the overall timeline scheme.

O the game was hard. Harder than OoT. This is the first Zelda game since OoT that I got puzzled by the puzzles. Every puzzle was hard but, when you figure it out you think of how stupid you were for not seeing that, you know? The enemys were difficult but fun. The bosses had a "Shadow of Collolus" type thing going. This is in terms of temple puzzles and bosses the best Zelda game! But, storywise, I didn't have the same feeling that OoT gave you.

That's sad because this game could have givin the OoT feeling more by connecting to it more. You know like in the other post... Mentioning The Hero of Time, seeing more OoT characters.

OoT is the crutial turning point in Zelda, in order to give us that feeling of OoT again, they need to mention the characters from OoT. TWW did that, but the graphics weren't what people wanted in a Zelda game. Give TWW a chance and it's one of the best, if it had TP's graphics, it would be 2nd only to OoT. If you can't tell from my ramplings my only complant with TP is there isn't a OoT feeling that they should have included! Esspicially consitering that they said it came after OoT and before TWW.

This is great. I'm happy about this. I'm happy that you Dr_Bryan, were expecting to see OoT again. Just go play OoT again then. Or go and ask Nintendo to do a big Wii remake of OoT. Thats what you need isn't it?

I ddidn't even want this game to be a sequel to OoT. In fact, TWW is barely a sequel to OoT. MM seperates OoT from TP and TWW. I love this. Why do Nintendo bother saying theres a timeline, when really there isn't. Yes they are connected somehow, there is a timeline. But if Nintendo were stupid enough to build a perfect strengthened link between OoT/MM/Tp/TWW, I'd be really upset. Glad its not like that.

You do notice that OoT has a gap of 100 years to TP? And theres a gap of hundreds of years for TWW. Each of these games have a different graphics style. MM would be boring, but because it runs on OoT's engine they are quite similar. having different graphics styles for each of the three (ooT/TP and TWW) and each being so vastly different it does not make sence for them to be "pure" sequels. I can't imagine TP being a sequel to OoT in a 'true sequels' way. A few mentions of the Hero of Time was enough.

I love how Nintendo have kept Tp and OoT distant and I'm glad. I am starting to hate it when people like you Dr_Bryan, complain that this game isn't that good anymore, just because its not like OoT. Didn't you notice that it isn't OoT? So stop bringing TP down, your acting just like gamespot.

EDIT: And do any of you actually realise that Nintendo have only said "yes, there is a timeline", to not dissapoint you old guys that have been around since TLOZ and AOL? All they have said it that there is information that connects each of the games, not anything else.

Even you Dr_bryan, have said that you are beginning to think that TP Ganondorf is even OoT Ganondorf. This is supposed to be a new tale for new buyers and new people to have a go at. They don't want some sequel of some other game, they want a new and rich game. TP is good as it is.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

I ddidn't even want this game to be a sequel to OoT. In fact, TWW is barely a sequel to OoT. MM seperates OoT from TP and TWW. I love this. Why do Nintendo bother saying theres a timeline, when really there isn't. Yes they are connected somehow, there is a timeline. But if Nintendo were stupid enough to build a perfect strengthened link between OoT/MM/Tp/TWW, I'd be really upset. Glad its not like that.

You do notice that OoT has a gap of 100 years to TP? And theres a gap of hundreds of years for TWW. Each of these games have a different graphics style. MM would be boring, but because it runs on OoT's engine they are quite similar. having different graphics styles for each of the three (ooT/TP and TWW) and each being so vastly different it does not make sence for them to be "pure" sequels. I can't imagine TP being a sequel to OoT in a 'true sequels' way. A few mentions of the Hero of Time was enough.

Here you are, ranting up and down like Nintendo just blessed the Split Timeline theroy with TP. Whatever.

Obviously, you don't rember that the correction to WW's placement after OoT was hundreds of years, not a hundred. TP is exactly a hundred years from OoT, not hundreds. So your happy joy-joy frency dance can stop now. TP does no harm or good to the timeline discussion for either side. Its just there after OoT. Period.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

This is great. I'm happy about this. I'm happy that you Dr_Bryan, were expecting to see OoT again. Just go play OoT again then. Or go and ask Nintendo to do a big Wii remake of OoT. Thats what you need isn't it?

I wasn't expecting to see all of OoT, just more! OoT was my first 3-D exprieance, and I loved it. I want to visit that world. I replay OoT all the time. Hell, I replay every Zelda game over and over. OoT is the greatest videogame ever made, and it desirvers a sequel, one that truely makes you feel you are in Hyrule of Oot! That is what I wanted. And no, I didn't expect this game to be exactly the same as OoT, I just wanted OoT to be the core of the land is all.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

I ddidn't even want this game to be a sequel to OoT. In fact, TWW is barely a sequel to OoT. MM seperates OoT from TP and TWW. I love this. Why do Nintendo bother saying theres a timeline, when really there isn't. Yes they are connected somehow, there is a timeline. But if Nintendo were stupid enough to build a perfect strengthened link between OoT/MM/Tp/TWW, I'd be really upset. Glad its not like that.

Why would you be upset? And Nintendo has confirmed that there is a timeline! This game is a sequel to OoT, it just doesn't feel like I'm in a Hyrule a mere hundred years after OoT!

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

You do notice that OoT has a gap of 100 years to TP? And theres a gap of hundreds of years for TWW. Each of these games have a different graphics style. MM would be boring, but because it runs on OoT's engine they are quite similar. having different graphics styles for each of the three (ooT/TP and TWW) and each being so vastly different it does not make sence for them to be "pure" sequels. I can't imagine TP being a sequel to OoT in a 'true sequels' way. A few mentions of the Hero of Time was enough.

MM would be boring? How? The Graphic Styles in OoT and TP are very simialar.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

I love how Nintendo have kept Tp and OoT distant and I'm glad. I am starting to hate it when people like you Dr_Bryan, complain that this game isn't that good anymore, just because its not like OoT. Didn't you notice that it isn't OoT? So stop bringing TP down, your acting just like gamespot.

I never said the game wasn't good! In fact it's one of the best in terms of Gameplay, sound and...everything. The only problem is that TP didn't connect to OoT. And I have a bond with The Hero of Time! Besides this, TP is my favorite Zelda title...next to OoT! TP is the second and if TP had came before OoT, hell I'd probley like it more.

TP only mentioned The HoT 3 times! Once by a gaurdian and twice by the Warrior! And LOZ, I have something major for you on this!\

As far as Gamespot? I don't know nor care about what they said... If they gave it a 8.8 because of the OoT-TP connection they are retarded! But, never say that I'm being just like them, the game is high in my book.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

EDIT: And do any of you actually realise that Nintendo have only said "yes, there is a timeline", to not dissapoint you old guys that have been around since TLOZ and AOL? All they have said it that there is information that connects each of the games, not anything else.

I've been a fan of Zelda since TLOZ! Nintendo said that "they have a document that connects each game chronologicly!" I don't truely care if there is a timeline for LoZ-AoL. But, with ALttP we know that there is a timeline. Mymoto even said there was! Though he's done his damndest to destroy that motion.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Even you Dr_bryan, have said that you are beginning to think that TP Ganondorf is even OoT Ganondorf. This is supposed to be a new tale for new buyers and new people to have a go at. They don't want some sequel of some other game, they want a new and rich game. TP is good as it is.

Who do you think buys the Zelda games the most? Newbies or fans? People who know nothing or people who love it? I'll tell you who, the fans buy more copies than Newbies! And that is why they should have more of a sequel feel to it! Fans care about OoT's Link! They care more about the series than the Newbies who buy the game because they played it at a friends house and wants to get involved! If they want to get involved start with the first!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with the Ganondorf TP and even OoT's Ganondorf? Please explain?

On a side note to LOZ Historian:

I found the seventh hidden warrior and read the text and if you want to know what was said PM me...Otherwise I'll just say I think he confirms my beliefs on who he really is!

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

Here you are, ranting up and down like Nintendo just blessed the Split Timeline theroy with TP. Whatever.

Obviously, you don't rember that the correction to WW's placement after OoT was hundreds of years, not a hundred. TP is exactly a hundred years from OoT, not hundreds. So your happy joy-joy frency dance can stop now. TP does no harm or good to the timeline discussion for either side. Its just there after OoT. Period.

Thats what I said are you blind or something? I said theres a gap between OoT and TP of 100 years and for TWW to Tp theres a gap of hundreds of years. Thats what I clearly said so put on your glasses.


______


To Dr_bryan. Exactly, TP didn't connect to OoT. It was almost a completely new game. It wasn't directly related to OoT through a storyline. Only by a few minor links of information. Its a new story a new legend. I am sick of hearing people say "Nintendo confirmed this, they confirmed that". Why do they bother saying there is a timeline when it is so unclear and messed up. And I bet there will be people wasting their life on uncovering the timeline for the next 15 or 20 years until Nintendo actually tell us if there is a linear or split-timeline...

I'll say one thing, I like the debates that Zelda makes, but I also want to find a true timeline! And I can say, I'm not wasting my life! I have a wife, and daughter on the way! Zelda is just a part of something that gives fun in my life!
After my second play through the game I noticed some minor details I missed, and after finding 7th Warrior skill, I can say I'm now firmly in the Wise Mens Timeline! The only thing the game didn't do was show what actually happend to Ganondorf at the end! But, TP will have a sequel, so...

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Even you Dr_bryan, have said that you are beginning to think that TP Ganondorf is even OoT Ganondorf. This is supposed to be a new tale for new buyers and new people to have a go at. They don't want some sequel of some other game, they want a new and rich game. TP is good as it is.

You think that OoT Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf are not the same? Have you got proof of this? Here's proof that they are:

- At the end of OoT, Ganondorf still has the ToP. In TP, Ganondorf has the ToP, which he uses to avoid being executed by the Sages.
- In OoT, Ganondorf had no beard and wore armour. In TWW, Ganondorf had a beard and didn't wear armour. In TP, Ganondorf has a cross of these, beard and armour.

I doubt I need to provide more proof.

Originally Posted by ZeldaGamer21

You think that OoT Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf are not the same? Have you got proof of this? Here's proof that they are:

- At the end of OoT, Ganondorf still has the ToP. In TP, Ganondorf has the ToP, which he uses to avoid being executed by the Sages.
- In OoT, Ganondorf had no beard and wore armour. In TWW, Ganondorf had a beard and didn't wear armour. In TP, Ganondorf has a cross of these, beard and armour.

I doubt I need to provide more proof.

I think there are the same! But, this isn't enough evidence to say that they are! The only thing is the game mentions Ganondorf trying to enter the sacred Realm! And the fact that Ganondorf is the same from OoT is obvious in TWW!

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

I'll say one thing, I like the debates that Zelda makes, but I also want to find a true timeline! And I can say, I'm not wasting my life! I have a wife, and daughter on the way! Zelda is just a part of something that gives fun in my life!
After my second play through the game I noticed some minor details I missed, and after finding 7th Warrior skill, I can say I'm now firmly in the Wise Mens Timeline! The only thing the game didn't do was show what actually happend to Ganondorf at the end! But, TP will have a sequel, so...

I am glad that you feel this way. But you must tell what Ganondorf said at the end of TP before he died, in spoiler highlights. Please tell us that so we can really see that TP does not leave us hanging with no insight to the upcoming events of WW's backstory.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

I am glad that you feel this way. But you must tell what Ganondorf said at the end of TP before he died, in spoiler highlights. Please tell us that so we can really see that TP does not leave us hanging with no insight to the upcoming events of WW's backstory.

Ganondorf does say that events aren't over, but makes no reference to TWW at all (but then what did you expect? He was about to die!!).

Originally Posted by Raian

Ganondorf does say that events aren't over, but makes no reference to TWW at all (but then what did you expect? He was about to die!!).

Yes he does.

"The war will end in blood!"

He is claiming that he will be back to cover the land in shadow like he was planning to do in TP. This only proves that his dark designs will come bask to Hyrule and bring an evil onslaught upon Hyrule in the end. (Refenrce came from Dr._bryan)

What else does could this foreshadow in a whole different timeline? What?! Please tell me because I am rying to thihnk of some other sequal to TP that could lead into another LoZ besides WW!.ALttP? No TP even makes THAT impossible if OoT was the Seal War. I can;t think of any other LoZ it could lead into to defien its placement elsewhere.

Why is evryone ignoring the interview in which Anouma said that TP would not connect into WW like we expect it to??? I wish someone could help me find that link, because I really feel that TP definatly is making this point clear as we debate right now.

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

I'll say one thing, I like the debates that Zelda makes, but I also want to find a true timeline! And I can say, I'm not wasting my life! I have a wife, and daughter on the way! Zelda is just a part of something that gives fun in my life!
After my second play through the game I noticed some minor details I missed, and after finding 7th Warrior skill, I can say I'm now firmly in the Wise Mens Timeline! The only thing the game didn't do was show what actually happend to Ganondorf at the end! But, TP will have a sequel, so...

I am glad that you feel this way. But you must tell what Ganondorf said at the end of TP before he died, in spoiler highlights. Please tell us that so we can really see that TP does not leave us hanging with no insight to the upcoming events of WW's backstory.

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

I think there are the same! But, this isn't enough evidence to say that they are! The only thing is the game mentions Ganondorf trying to enter the sacred Realm! And the fact that Ganondorf is the same from OoT is obvious in TWW!

No! It says that he tried to conqure the Realm, and failed. Everyone know that he was put in there after OoT. The Sages at this scene brought Ganondorf out of the Realom because he was poisening it with his evil. Everyone knows that Ganondorf could not rule the world and the Sacred Realm, which a connection to Hyrule, that he had to have the True Force to govern all. TP makes it clear that he failed to do this, and that is why he was in the state he was in TP. It makes since why he has the ToP. OoT even said that witthout the True Froce, his deisres could not be fulfilled to truely govern ALL.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

TP didn't connect to OoT. It was almost a completely new game. It wasn't directly related to OoT through a storyline. Only by a few minor links of information. Its a new story a new legend. I am sick of hearing people say "Nintendo confirmed this, they confirmed that". Why do they bother saying there is a timeline when it is so unclear and messed up. And I bet there will be people wasting their life on uncovering the timeline for the next 15 or 20 years until Nintendo actually tell us if there is a linear or split-timeline...

True. But because it did not make that clean cut connection into WW does not give you the right to assume that it automatically got changed offically on anther timeline. Yes, it is a broad conclusion to claim that Nintendo chronology notes are valid, but it was alsi said before the game came out that TP would not connect into WW in ways we would expect. That part has come true, obvously. When it comes to Miyamoto, he does not know what the hell he is doing when involved in stroyline making. Anouma knows wha the is doing because he angles to fix it. However that did not happen this time with TP as we all hoped because Miyamoto butted in during the production of the stroyline. So, yes, the timleine is unclear, but you have yet to explain more reasonings to why TP does countradicts its place after OoT (adult). So I feel that your points are inconclusive as of now.

The timeline can be discovered for either theories so long as peple do not make irrational conclusions like you have. You should expect this sort of arguement from ANY Linear Timeline Theorist because you are ultimatly making a choice for Nintendo that they have coutradicted themselves and have proclaimed a Split Timeline off the basis of OoT's chid ending. If ther was MORE storyline evidece to prove it so, as you feel it does not for either timeline theroy, you would have pointed out such in game reference. All you have done is twisted obvious facts that can drawn from the OoT adult ending, onto another timeline. I have yet to here any true kind of refernce from the game that concludes that this is a new Ganondorf or a actual bais off of OoT shild ending.

To put one more fact to you bluntly, OoT does not exist on the child timeline. The conclusive events of one ending have been scewed over in another universe, as most Splitist conclude to make there points about this theory being valid. What you have not realised is that the OoT child ending is nothing compared to reference of a hero existeing amd carrying out his duties if those duties do not get carried out in one timeline from the other. Only MM makes the OoT legend prevalent by word of mouth of how a boy saved Hyrule through his time traveling deeds. If he had saved Hryule from the King of Evil, as TP gives refernce to in the game and in my guidebook, it would have been an event that actaull happened in the child timeline. But it did not happen, did it? No. The legend of the hero, given refernce in TP, if on another timeline, cannot lead up from a LoZ that has no conclusive eveidence of that Hero in the child timeline, also defateing the King of Evil. It simly does not work that way in a Split Timeline if events are seperateda altogether. Even if there was a secound Ganodorf in the child timeline, he would have had to be delt with by the Link in the OoT child ending, to end up in his state as he is captive in the Sages presence in TP.

Actually, Ganondorf says "The war between light and shadow will be written in blood."

If you play TP (or read the spoilers), you will know that the power of Shadow is not inherently evil and is totally different from Ganondorf's own power of Darkness. Likewise...

Midna not only makes peace between Light and Shadow but she also destroys the only connection between the worlds of Light and Shadow (the Twilight Mirror), preventing any form of contact between them ever again.

Originally Posted by Raian

Actually, Ganondorf says "The war between light and shadow will be written in blood."

If you play TP (or read the spoilers), you will know that the power of Shadow is not inherently evil and is totally different from Ganondorf's own power of Darkness. Likewise...

Midna not only makes peace between Light and Shadow but she also destroys the only connection between the worlds of Light and Shadow (the Twilight Mirror), preventing any form of contact between them ever again.

Hmmm... I know that in WW it says that he "attempted" to cover the land in shadows. You couod draw a double sided conclusion to that this refernce only points to the OoT days, but the King of Red Lions speaks blunty abot Ganon to Link when they first meet in the game.

Though this point about shadow being not evil is correct. It can, however, be manipulated to be evil, as we have seen it in that use more than once throughout the Zelda series. Another point you could draw from this is in how the way Ganondorf says that the "war' will be written in blood. What war though? Yes, Hyrule is at war with the Twili and how it wishes to dominate the world of Hyrule by merging the worlds together, but by implying it will be written in blood makes it seem that this is not the end. Because there is not much blood spilled in the "war" concerning Hylians welfare. To me TP only makes make a strong sequal impression by this comment, as well as us not knowing Ganondorfs whereabouts after he is defeated.

I agree with Raian about the mirrors destruction- oh, and just to rub it in:

I was telling you that Ganon was resurrected as opposed to Ganon escaping in the TWW prologue all along

Originally Posted by darthcucco

I agree with Raian about the mirrors destruction- oh, and just to rub it in:

I was telling you that Ganon was resurrected as opposed to Ganon escaping in the TWW prologue all along

Oh? And to rub it in your face (lol):

TP leaves little hope for ALttP to come before WW.

Go ahead and make a theroy to disprove THAT inconsistancy why don't ya!