Something all the Wise Men, and pretty much everyone else, needs to know about...

I don't know how many of you have seen Gametrailers.com's excellent miniseries, The Zelda Games Retrospective, so in case you haven't, I'll summarize it for you. It's a 6-part miniseries, and in parts 1-5, they take a couple Zelda games, summarize them, explain what they did for the series, and generally praise them. So far, it's gone like this...

Part 1-LoZ and AoL
Part 2-ALttP and LA
Part 3-OoT and MM
Part 4-OoS, OoA, and FSA, with a brief mention of FS.
Part 5-TWW and TMC

They don't talk much about TP, and I don't think they mention PH, but anyway, in the last minute or so of part 5, they say this, and this has a potentially HUGE impact on the timeline as we know it.

Join us next week for a complete tour through the lineage of the Legend of Zelda, and the conclusion to our 6-part Retrospective. In our final installment, we'll follow each game, chronologically, through the history of Hyrule...shedding light on the hidden connections between each title...and taking in one of the most successful videogame series of all time, from start...to finish.

I don't know what you guys think, but to me, this is actually very worrisome. First of all, I highly doubt that whatever theory they present will be as well thought out as the major ones from here and GameFAQs. My second concern is that they won't even mention the double timeline, which won't be a problem if TP proves the single timeline, but whatever. And my final concern is that no matter what they say about the timeline, everyone except theorists like us will take it as 100% confirmed fact. This won't be so worrisome if they present say, the UWM theory, which is very good, even if it's not fact. But It's my feeling that they'll probably do something stupid, like put TMC-FS-FSA at the very beginning or very end, or put ALttP after LoZ and AoL, or say that ALttP-Oracles-LA is fact. That wouldn't be good.

Thoughts?

Speaking seriously, yes, it's worrisome. But I'll watch it anyway for a good laugh. :XD

Meh, IMO all they'll give us is:

OoT-MM-TP-tWW-PH
OoT-AlttP-LA-LoZ-Aol
TMC-FS-FSA
and
OoS OoA.

And then talk about how further concrete connection isn't possible...

I'm not worried. they cannot interwine LoZ's like people do when they define the "ark" sytems of liitle timelines such as these:

OoT-(MM)-TP-WW-PH

TMC-FS-FSA

ALttP-LA-LoZ-AoL

OoA/OoS

I would be VERy surprised if they interwine arks as Nintendo has put them in these definable orders that have never changed, or in my opiinion, never have been influenced in any other order by a old or new game. What i mean to say is that you cant put TMC and FS before OoT and not FSA. You have to put the wole ark behind OoT. I think nintendo has definable rules when it comes to its timeline plan. Some people make it to complicated. If these guys make it complicated, well, so help us god that they son't break the timeline ark system.

I don't know. They seem like they're going to give us a straight-up timeline, from start to finish, like they said. Let's wait and see how this turns out. I'm expecting a train wreck, but that's just me.

First off, whoever these people are, cannot make a timeline theory on the verge of when new info may be presented to possibly discontinue there theory. So them making this timeline without PH, or TP no less even, being mentioned is foolish. I don't see what accuracy will come from this.

I am betting that the timeline they present will raise all hell when it is not the Wise Men's Timeline and then people will bash us all and then TP will come out and prove their theory wrong as well. I can see it now... Its just pure ironic that al this breaking timeline stuff is carrying on the way it is with TP's release on the verge.

See, I disagree that the arc system can't be broken. I think that's true that no games can break up Child OoT-MM-Adult OoT-TP-TWW-PH and ALttP-LA-LoZ-AoL, but there's an obvious unexplained gap of hundreds, maybe thousands of years between TMC and FS, so TMC could conceivably go before OoT, but that's not the point. Also, according to the Wise Man Theory, OoX can break the ALttP thru AoL arc, though I do think it fits better at the very end. So, suppose the single timeline theory is confirmed, these will be the theories I debate between, in no particular order.

Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

TMC-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

TMC-FS-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

TMC-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

TMC-FS-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

But that's just me.

I just read the last retrospective episode and I think it's very likely that gametrailers will place TMC at the beginning. How this reflects the rest of the timeline is up to them.

I never really paid attention to that "Chonology of the games," statement they made, I though they were talking about the whole series. Or use the old 1 Link theory, but, then again, the guy on there sounds pretty dumb about Zelda stuff(no offense if he happens to be reading this, it's just study Zelda, really, study Zelda before you make a retrospective).

Huh, I saw it when it was updated onto the Hylia. I wouldn't be worried. If anything they'll just talk about how the timeline stumps everyone.

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

See, I disagree that the arc system can't be broken. I think that's true that no games can break up Child OoT-MM-Adult OoT-TP-TWW-PH and ALttP-LA-LoZ-AoL, but there's an obvious unexplained gap of hundreds, maybe thousands of years between TMC and FS, so TMC could conceivably go before OoT, but that's not the point. Also, according to the Wise Man Theory, OoX can break the ALttP thru AoL arc, though I do think it fits better at the very end. So, suppose the single timeline theory is confirmed, these will be the theories I debate between, in no particular order.

Without the strict ark system the timeline will NEVER be definable. NEVER I think it is fullharty not to recognise the order in which Nintendo had created them to fall in there arks. It does not matter how much time passes between them, if the LoZ before or after does not give ANY impications to a LoZ that does not directly make itself visable that it will happen after it, it should not go therem either that or you are makig highly speculative inferences that are not so directly implied by the games that soley fall into their chronological orders in there arks alone.

Now lets take al ook at these to prove my point:

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

No comment.

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

TMC-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

Well, if you are going to put TMC before OoT you have to put it back with FS due to Anouma's first statement that said FS was the oldest LoZ. TMC got "grandfathered" into that statement when it was crreated after then. Interestingly enough, FSA's prologue actually gives a clear back refernce to FS happening not to long ago as what time is implied between TMC and FS. So ultimatly in contrast to what I said, the whole FS series ends up behind OoT - and that is countradictive to the fact that OoT is the first LoZ in the timeline. That has never been denounced or changed.

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

TMC-FS-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FSA-ALttP/LA-Oracles-LoZ/AoL

Already made some points on this on the timeline above this one.

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

TMC-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

Originally Posted by TripleEspresso9

TMC-FS-Child OoT/MM/Adult OoT-TP-TWW/PH-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-Oracles

I realy don't care about the OoS/OoA and where they go. Alls anybody needs to know is that they best fits somewhere after AlttP because the Royal Family owns the triforce as the Royal Family would have had it from some time after the defeat of Ganon in ALttP. The game has no timeline ark, but I see it best fiting to strenghthen the connection between ALttP and LoZ. I have no interest in debating it really.

Now the point I argue about TMC is that if you put it before OoT the Light Force can have NO relatenece to the Triforce whatsoever. OoT makes it perfectly clear that the relic has stayed undesturbed in the realm since the creation of the world. Another point I wil argue against TMC being before OoT is the social aspect of the society that is at hand in Hyrule. The Hylian civiliation never really was united as a city state or country (whichever you look at it) until after the first King of Hyrule came along and did so after the Fierce Wars. The Deku Tree in OoT kind of implies that Hyrule had been in chaos for some time and that it was not united. Another fact to lok at is that Hyrule has a social system in which people have postal services news articles, ect. Those things I know did not social come into affect until after OoT.

Since OoT is the first LoZ, it features the first Hero of Hyrule. Having TMC (or any other FS title) gives off the impression that Hyrule has had a couple of other heroes that have gone unnoticed and sonviently made no significance to existance come up to OoT, but appear in knowledgable existance centureis and centuries later in new Hyrule? Very unlikly. Now I know TP comes after OoT and supposable leads into WW still, and we see no historical refernce of him. But I can conclude that people in Hyrule may think that TP Link is the Hero of Time in spirit and that is why WW seems to ephasise alot on thikng that the Hero of Time would save them once again, and how the king is searching for his descendant and all up to WW. These things maych up some kind of significance to the Legend of the Hero of Time, whereas such a hsitorical hero of either FS LoZ that may come before OoT, should be noticed and mentioned. My main point is that TP's circimstances cannot be used as an exise in your case until the game comes out.

Edit:

Another interesting fact in TMC is that the description on the Gorons in that game (whether it is on one of those figurines or by word of mouth I can' remember) refer to them as being an uncommon site in Hyrule due to there numbered species. Of curse thi is also implied but but we know that is explained for if FSA takes place after WW. However, the gorons were not notably limmitied in numbers around OoT or maybe even before. Yes they were threatened of extinction, but they were not. I think this race should not be noted as endagered if TMC takes way back before OoT during a time in which they may have flousrished more in numbers than what they do in OoT.

I've been following their retrospective from the beginning and yes, it really worries me too. If we assume that the guys who made the previous episodes are not timeline experts we can expect them to build their theory on out-of-date quotes and theories. They are likely to use some well presented timeline like the Zelda Elements Timeline and leave out all the difficult stuff.

I think that they will most likely leave out the Four Sword games or mess with them really bad (like placing them last). They will probably say that the Oracles go between ALttP and LA or they might just say that the earlier games were not made to fit the timeline and just talk about the 3D titles.

I would be okay with the Zelda Elements timeline, it's quite good and with leaving FS saga out would be okay. I know I've been discussing this theory with my wife and she finds it quite intresting. She'd be upset though if they didn't include the TMC, she's a gameboy player...my wife is nasty...lol.

I just don't want to start hearing our Zelda Timeline is wrong when they release this last video. And you know that it will happen.

Newbies (I said newbies not n00bs) will most likely fall for it, but when they come here (or another forum) and see statements based on canon and facts they will most likely open their eyes and minds, and if they just come to bash with idiotic posts then those are the n00bs and should be ignored (I said ignored not flamed).

As long as we keep this forum from transforming into a flamezone everthing will be fine and the future comments won't affect our community's judge about the timeline =).

Fact of the matter is, there are other timeline theorists out there besides ZU and the alliance, other communities that we have no idea exsist.
Sitting around and claiming that "our timeline is unbreakable" only leads to annoying avarice, we must be willing to accept and discuss others theories.

I look forward to this next retrospective because I want to hear what others think.

Precisely my point (maybe I didn't explain myself well) the point is: We stand in our theory because we have proof for it, when this theory comes we can discuss with our theory and our evidence, its good to see what other people think ^^.

If these publicising self proclaimed timeline experts leave the FS saga out of there timeline, the the Wise Men timeline will fail. I really think that the broadcast is not very fair to the Nintendo company because Anouma has one under the making. Whatever they come up with will be speculative and may not be what Nintendo has in mind.

This whole issue is a scam to timeline theorist such as ourselves. There just using telivision to glamorise there points without probably backing them up as much as we have with our timeline theory. Its a shame really. Not only our work could go to shame becaus eof this over glamoured broadcast of timeline info, but other serious timeline theorist as well.

I guess the fact is, is that you can't beat TV advertisement when no one else is in business of timeline "broadcasting" info. So like others our saying about "others that don't know what there talking about" will agree with this crap once it is revealed, wil give us a hard time and use it as ofcial sorce. ONLY Nintendo is the official sorce and this new info may be countradictive to Nintendo's will in the long run.

That icon is so funny

Originally Posted by *Zelda*

That icon is so funny

Huh? Who are you talking too?

Originally Posted by Uncle Meat

Zelda Elements Timeline

I think that they will most likely leave out the Four Sword games or mess with them really bad (like placing them last). They will probably say that the Oracles go between ALttP and LA or they might just say that the earlier games were not made to fit the timeline and just talk about the 3D titles.

They cannot deny them out of the timeline just because people can't find them a logical place in the overall series. If Nintendo associated them in there retrorespective trailers in the past, I am sue Anouma is going to deliver the official timeline order as he promissed along with any games him of Miyomoto has had there hands in.

Originally Posted by Vaati 2705

Newbies (I said newbies not n00bs) will most likely fall for it, but when they come here (or another forum) and see statements based on canon and facts they will most likely open their eyes and minds, and if they just come to bash with idiotic posts then those are the n00bs and should be ignored (I said ignored not flamed).

As long as we keep this forum from transforming into a flamezone everthing will be fine and the future comments won't affect our community's judge about the timeline =).

Well, from what I saw the Elements timeline is very similar to the Wise men's one.