Late-Placed TWW

Firstly, I'd like to make myself clear; no flaming. I don't give a damn whether you think my theory is 'worthless and wrong', if you think so, please try and contradict me with canon evidence as opposed to flaming me, which has happened in various other topics.

Okay, so now, the timeline:

The Late-Placed TWW Timeline (Linear)

OoT-MM---TP---ALttP-LA---TWW-PH---LoZ-AoL

Now, let me explain this madness. I put ALttP before TWW because I believe OoT is the seal war (the only seal war) and that ALttP and OoT should both be before TWW, as ALttP is clearly a sequel to OoT. I'll provide facts supporting this later.

The placement of LA is due to evidence that suggests that it is the same Link as the one from ALttP- this could possibly be the voyage in which the hero leaves Hyrule and the triforce is scattered.

TWW-PH is... rather obvious.

Now, the interesting bit. In LoZ, the entire overworld is only part of the overworld in AoL- yet the overworld in ALttP has various similarities to it. I suspect that the land in AoL that is not featured in LoZ or any other Zelda game is the "new land" that Link and Zelda found after TWW. The area where LoZ takes place is old Hyrule, risen due to the deku tree's ambitions- this explains the large forest, the absence of Hyrule castle and the dead deku tree. And, well, as for Ganon, is it not possible that Ganon's tower is eroded down to a rocky summit- named death mountain after the mountain in old Hyrule.

And of course, this fits perfectly with something (I forget what) in AoL mentioning the ancestors of the current Hyruleans being sailers who explored and conquered a lot of land.

This is a work in progress. I have not added much of the information I have supporting this timeline. Please ask questions and comment on this theory.

1) Why does ALttP have to follow immediately after OoT (even assuming that OoT=SW)?

2) If the land north of Death Mountain, featured in AoL, is the 'new land', why do we still see 'Hyrule' in LoZ? Doesn't that undermine the very purpose of the 'new land', if the 'old land' is still there? Isn't one of your trademark premises that Hyrule doesn't exist after TWW?

3) LA cannot be the "journey" in which the Triforce is split, since the one who went on the journey is the Hero of Time, and he possessed only the Triforce of Courage, not the whole Triforce as we see in ALttP. Also, the Hylian text in the beginning of TWW reveals that the Hero's journey involving him venturing "into the flows of time", which in OoT is revealed to mean "traveling through time."

4) How does Ganon get the Triforce of Power prior to TWW? How does Zelda get the Triforce of Wisdom prior to TWW? The game fairly clearly implies that the Triforce of Power has been kept by Ganon since OoT, and outright states that the Triforce of Wisdom was passed down through the Royal Family.

5) TWW outright states that the Flood comes into play after Ganon returns after being sealed by the Hero of Time in OoT ("What became of that kingdom? None remain who know", followed by a description of the post-Flood Great Sea). How do you account for this in your TWW placement?

One thing, I'm not going to bring up the rest, but this one thing will destroy your timeline...3 other games...The Minsh Cap, Four Swords and Four Swords adventures... Where do they do, and why aren't they included in this timeline? Provide those, then I will show you the error in your timeline.

I promise not to insult you in anyway. I've noticed that it can get bad with flaming and stuff.

Originally Posted by Dr_bryan

The Minsh Cap, Four Swords and Four Swords adventures... Where do they do, and why aren't they included in this timeline?

Originally Posted by darthcucco

This is a work in progress. I have not added much of the information I have supporting this timeline.

As an aside to dartcucco: if you want to stick with this theory, I would recommend a post-TWW/PH or even post LoZ/AoL placement of the Four Sword saga, as well as a post-LoZ/AoL placement of the Oracle saga.

I'll add my own questions.

1) OoT says that the Royal Family passed down the location of the Sacred Realm over generations, right up to the moment that Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. However, ALTTP says that the passing down of the location was lost long before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. How can this be if the two statements represent the same Seal War?

2) Assuming TP is the size that it is and that there is no sea surrounding it, how do you explain the water that surrounds Hyrule in TMC, FSA and LoZ-AoL?

3) We know that the Triforce is split into it's three parts in OoT and AoL's backstory. We know that the Triforce is reunited from it's split pieces in TWW and LoZ-AoL. However, if we speculate that the Triforce is reunited between OoT and ALTTP, that means we have one other event where the Triforce is split and two events where it is reunited from a split. So how do we speculate this third split of the Triforce?

Originally Posted by Raian

Assuming TP is the size that it is and that there is no sea surrounding it, how do you explain the water that surrounds Hyrule in TMC, FSA and LoZ-AoL?

The idea that Hyrule didn't have water surrounding it before TWW is an assumption, if you do recall. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Raian

So how do we speculate this third split of the Triforce?

And how, in turn, do we speculate how the Triforce came to be whole and in Ganondorf's possession between OoT and ALttP (assuming they are the same Ganondorf)?

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

1) Why does ALttP have to follow immediately after OoT (even assuming that OoT=SW)?

2) If the land north of Death Mountain, featured in AoL, is the 'new land', why do we still see 'Hyrule' in LoZ? Doesn't that undermine the very purpose of the 'new land', if the 'old land' is still there? Isn't one of your trademark premises that Hyrule doesn't exist after TWW?

3) LA cannot be the "journey" in which the Triforce is split, since the one who went on the journey is the Hero of Time, and he possessed only the Triforce of Courage, not the whole Triforce as we see in ALttP. Also, the Hylian text in the beginning of TWW reveals that the Hero's journey involving him venturing "into the flows of time", which in OoT is revealed to mean "traveling through time."

4) How does Ganon get the Triforce of Power prior to TWW? How does Zelda get the Triforce of Wisdom prior to TWW? The game fairly clearly implies that the Triforce of Power has been kept by Ganon since OoT, and outright states that the Triforce of Wisdom was passed down through the Royal Family.

5) TWW outright states that the Flood comes into play after Ganon returns after being sealed by the Hero of Time in OoT ("What became of that kingdom? None remain who know", followed by a description of the post-Flood Great Sea). How do you account for this in your TWW placement?

1) It isn't immediately after; a pretty large period of time falls in-between the two games. And TP comes in between- I find the ruind of the temple of time, situated in a wood, to be very interesting.

2) Heh, things have changed. I took your arguments into account and decided that the only thing I really feel strongly about with this timeline is ALttP thing- you're right, the Deku Tree's ambition is probably not a meaningless bit of trivia.

3) The phrase "hero of time" is very vague in TWW- in fact, does the KoRL even say "hero of time" in reference to this journey? As far as I remember he says "the hero". I could be wrong, though.

4) I had a reason for this, but I'm not entirely certain whether it would work- it depends on the position of the triforce after ALttP- could you remind me? I forget, and the text dumps to NOT help.

5) It doesn't say that. It just says that the hero defeated the evil and the evil came back one day- it doesn't account for any of the things that may have happened in-between.

As to the FS trilogy, if OoT is the seal war, then FSA can not go before ALttP. See my dilemna? I can't put it there, but there is nowhere else it will fit.

Originally Posted by Raian

I'll add my own questions.

1) OoT says that the Royal Family passed down the location of the Sacred Realm over generations, right up to the moment that Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. However, ALTTP says that the passing down of the location was lost long before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. How can this be if the two statements represent the same Seal War?

2) Assuming TP is the size that it is and that there is no sea surrounding it, how do you explain the water that surrounds Hyrule in TMC, FSA and LoZ-AoL?

3) We know that the Triforce is split into it's three parts in OoT and AoL's backstory. We know that the Triforce is reunited from it's split pieces in TWW and LoZ-AoL. However, if we speculate that the Triforce is reunited between OoT and ALTTP, that means we have one other event where the Triforce is split and two events where it is reunited from a split. So how do we speculate this third split of the Triforce?

1) Well, it was lost to most people. And isn't the quote "it was lost by those who guard it" or something to that effect? That could be interpreted as meaning the sages forgot about it.

2) LoZ-AoL are post flood. the FS trilogy does not have a placement yet.

3) Still working on that one...

Two points.

1) The King of Red Lions definitely refers to the Hero of Time.

2) FSA has to go before ALTTP because FSA tells us that the Desert Temple was built to prevent access to the Pyramid. Since we see this Temple in ALTTP, we know that it was built for the purpose that was defeated in FSA, which then leads to it's new purpose in ALTTP for protecting a pendant.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

1) It isn't immediately after; a pretty large period of time falls in-between the two games. And TP comes in between- I find the ruind of the temple of time, situated in a wood, to be very interesting.

Given that the Temple of Time exists in a very different location in OoT than the Lost Woods pedestal does in ALttP, I don't see why you find it so interesting.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

3) The phrase "hero of time" is very vague in TWW- in fact, does the KoRL even say "hero of time" in reference to this journey?

Yes. The tale of the journey is the "legend of the Hero of Time."

Originally Posted by darthcucco

4) I had a reason for this, but I'm not entirely certain whether it would work- it depends on the position of the triforce after ALttP- could you remind me?

After ALttP, the Triforce is whole, and in the possession of the Hero. Ganon is dead, and the Triforce of Power is, as a consequence, obviously not in his possession. How does he come by it in TWW?

Originally Posted by darthcucco

5) It doesn't say that. It just says that the hero defeated the evil and the evil came back one day- it doesn't account for any of the things that may have happened in-between.

Originally Posted by TWW intro

The great evil that all thought had been forever sealed away by the hero... once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.

The evil came back after having been sealed, not after having been killed.

Originally Posted by Raian

FSA has to go before ALTTP because FSA tells us that the Desert Temple was built to prevent access to the Pyramid. Since we see this Temple in ALTTP, we know that it was built for the purpose that was defeated in FSA, which then leads to it's new purpose in ALTTP for protecting a pendant.

Nice one.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Given that the Temple of Time exists in a very different location in OoT than the Lost Woods pedestal does in ALttP, I don't see why you find it so interesting.

Yes. The tale of the journey is the "legend of the Hero of Time."

After ALttP, the Triforce is whole, and in the possession of the Hero. Ganon is dead, and the Triforce of Power is, as a consequence, obviously not in his possession. How does he come by it in TWW?


The evil came back after having been sealed, not after having been killed.

Nice one.

Well, Hyrule castle town is in the north, like the Lost woods, and if some woods grow around it, then why can they not be the ones in ALttP.

I'm not talking about that. The prologue story does not mention the journey. the KoRL does, later on.

And what if Link gives the triforce (minus the triforce of courage, which he keeps until he leaves hyrule) to the royal family, and Ganon steals the triforce of power at a later date?

And?

But that doesn't prove anything.

If the Desert Temple was made to keep people out of the Pyramid and the Temple does not serve this purpose in ALTTP, then it means that the purpose had ended before ALTTP. Since it happened in FSA, this proves FSA comes before ALTTP.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

The prologue story does not mention the journey. the KoRL does, later on.

The KoRL's story is a supplement to the prologue story. The same can be said for his explanation of Ganon's return and second attack on Hyrule. Remember that the journey in MM was one "held dearly by the Royal Family", so the general population wouldn't know anything of it, most likely.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

And what if Link gives the triforce (minus the triforce of courage, which he keeps until he leaves hyrule) to the royal family, and Ganon steals the triforce of power at a later date?

When? How? And how does it come back into the hands of the Royal Family after TWW?

Originally Posted by darthcucco

But that doesn't prove anything.

FSA has to come before ALttP if the desert temple was built to serve the purpose it serves in FSA.

Ah, but should FSA be regarded as canon? The FS trilogy added a load of rubbish into the series which complicates things- and remember, they were not made by Nintendo.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

Ah, but should FSA be regarded as canon? The FS trilogy added a load of rubbish into the series which complicates things- and remember, they were not made by Nintendo.

Yes. FSA should be regarded as canon, because the developers say that it is.