Poll: Are the Gerudo committing incest in OoT?

LionHarted believes that the Gerudo must only be giving birth to other Gerudo through Ganondorf because there are a couple of half-Gerudo Hylians in the game, such as Malon.

LionHarted will elaborate the theory in more detail in the next post because no doubt he will criticise my explanation of it.

The question is, do you think the Gerudo are committing incest or do you think like me that the half-Gerudo Hylians are simple exceptions to a general rule?

First of all, the thread title is an appeal to consequences of a belief, which is a logical fallacy. You're presenting my position in a negative light and expecting that to be justification for it being incorrect. "This line of 'reasoning' is fallacious because the consequences of a belief have no bearing on whether the belief is true or false."

Originally Posted by Raian

The question is, do you think the Gerudo are committing incest or do you think like me that the half-Gerudo Hylians are simple exceptions to a general rule?

Secondly, I would concede in a heartbeat if you could demonstrate the existence of this alleged "general rule." In other words, show me an example of a "Gerudo" child being born of a Gerudo mother and a Hylian father. Since you cannot do so, I will continue to interpret the Gerudo culture in the context I deem most likely, whether you object to it or not. Whether or not you find it to be desirable is irrelevant. Can we honestly expect all cultures in Zelda to adhere to what we today deem as socially acceptable?

In any case, simple math tells us that within three generations all "Gerudo" would be approximately one-eighth Gerudo, if they are primarily the product of Gerudo-Hylian unions, which means that, within three generations, the Hylian traits should be far more prevalent than the Gerudo traits. This is obviously not the case, as the Gerudo still exist with most of their definitive traits intact hundreds of years later in FSA.

The Gerudo are influenced both by the Arabian harems (mostly females, dominated by a single male) and the Amazons (warrior-based female culture).

Elements of Arabian [harem] culture in Gerudo culture:

• Male head, to whom all females are subordinate.
• Majority of those who dwell in the household of the head of the culture are females.
• Arabian garb/dwelling/symbology/worship/physical appearance.
• Arabian-style weaponry and fighting style.
• Warrior-based culture.
• Spirit Temple background music has a decidedly Eastern influence.
• No males permitted in their lands, save the kinsmen of the head of the culture.
• They live in a desert area.
• The only females to live there take on the roles of servants, attendants, slaves, or guards (NOTES: this is inevitable, since all of them are women except for the King; 'servants' would include, in this case, the guards).

Elements of Amazon culture in Gerudo culture:

• Primarily females.
• Warrior-based culture.
• They live on the edges of the known world, on the edge of Hyrule.
• No men permitted in their country.
• Gerudo Valley background music has a primarily Latin influence.
• They leave the country to find men.

1) Committing incest is committing incest. There is no way of protraying it in a positive light.

2) Half of those examples of Arabian culture I have shown to be speculation on your part in the other topic, especially your argument that the Arabs have a warrior culture when Arabian women don't even get trained to be warriors.

3) It's taken as a general presumption that the Gerudo would travel to find boyfriends in Hyrule for a reason. If they find men other than Ganondorf so deminutive, then it sounds like a matter of necessity than of pride to look for others.

Originally Posted by Raian

Committing incest is committing incest. There is no way of protraying it in a positive light.

Still the fallacy of appeal to consequences of a belief. Whether or not a belief is positive or negative has no bearing on whether or not it is true.

It's taken as a general presumption that the Gerudo would travel to find boyfriends in Hyrule for a reason.

Yeah. If I were a woman, I'd get a little restless if the one male in my society wasn't giving me the attention I wanted.

If they find men other than Ganondorf so deminutive, then it sounds like a matter of necessity than of pride to look for others.

But other men are, as they say, "useless".

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Yeah. If I were a woman, I'd get a little restless if the one male in my society wasn't giving me the attention I wanted.

Hang on, are the supoosed to be head-over-heel wives/slaves to Ganondorf or are they passive about his power? You're being inconsistent here.

But other men are, as they say, "useless".

Correct, so why bother when they are apparently so enamoured by the great Ganondorf?

Originally Posted by Raian

Hang on, are the supoosed to be head-over-heel wives/slaves to Ganondorf or are they passive about his power? You're being inconsistent here.

Would they be "head-over-heels", or would they be conditioned to be subordinate to him? Given Ganondorf's character, the answer to this question should be obvious. Either way, as a wife to the one male in the society, if he wasn't giving me the sexual attention I wanted, I'd seek some elsewhere. (hypothetical)

Correct, so why bother when they are apparently so enamoured by the great Ganondorf?

All men except for Ganondorf are useless. If men are necessary for the survival of their society, why the stigma against them? Also, if there is a stigma against all men except their leader (who is the only male who is not "useless"), what does that say about the male's position in the society?

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Would they be "head-over-heels", or would they be conditioned to be subordinate to him? Given Ganondorf's character, the answer to this question should be obvious. Either way, as a wife to the one male in the society, if he wasn't giving me the sexual attention I wanted, I'd seek some elsewhere. (hypothetical)

All men except for Ganondorf.

So now you're telling me that they worship Ganondorf (like a god according to the gossip stone) but they don't really worship him all that much? How inconsistent.

Originally Posted by Raian

So now you're telling me that they worship Ganondorf (like a god according to the gossip stone) but they don't really worship him all that much? How inconsistent.

This is not a logical rebuttal, since that's not what I'm saying at all.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

This is not a logical rebuttal, since that's not what I'm saying at all.

You're right. It's late at night for me and I'm trying to rebute speculation with speculation, which as you know can go anywhere without some form of evidence as a guideline.

What about the possibility that Ganondorf only has sex with one girl, like Nabooru. That would explain why she's second in command. That makes all girls their children, and no incest occurs. All the othe women go find boyfriends because they don't have sex with daddy G.

I watch Meerkat Manor, and That's what happens in Meerkat society. So that's an example of a species that has the dominant male and female having children, and raising families.

I doubt they are committing incest, because that leads to inbreeding and birth defects. I think maybe King Ganondof has his one woman, and they only do it with each other.

^^ Well, there is the problem that Nabooru hates Ganondorf because of his evil heart. I doubt that the Spirit of Sage would sleep with the potential King of Evil for any reason.

Considering that Nabooru was simply a name used for the sake of example, I think the point was that some female or "elite" group of females is more or less what Daphnes was going for.

And it's still complete speculation.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Considering that Nabooru was simply a name used for the sake of example, I think the point was that some female or "elite" group of females is more or less what Daphnes was going for.

Yes. Who knows what went on before Ganondorf found out about the Triforce's location. He might have been a more desireable person.

Even if it isn't Nabooru, my idea still stands.

Originally Posted by Raian

And it's still complete speculation.

No more than your idea about incest.

Perhaps the Gerudo genes are simply dominant over the Hylian genes.

Originally Posted by TheKyle

Perhaps the Gerudo genes are simply dominant over the Hylian genes.

I find that highly likely; supporting this is the fact that the Hylian bloodline has thinned, possibly suggesting that the Hylian genes are not... very dominant, if that makes sense.

Originally Posted by darthcucco

I find that highly likely; supporting this is the fact that the Hylian bloodline has thinned, possibly suggesting that the Hylian genes are not... very dominant, if that makes sense.

Recessive is the word you're looking for.

And I also don't believe the Gerudo must rely on Ganondorf for mating purposes, I don't think they'd be dancing after he got imprisoned if it meant thier way of life would end.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

Recessive is the word you're looking for.

And I also don't believe the Gerudo must rely on Ganondorf for mating purposes, I don't think they'd be dancing after he got imprisoned if it meant thier way of life would end.

Thank you.

Yes, there is that too.

Originally Posted by Magic-Tech

And I also don't believe the Gerudo must rely on Ganondorf for mating purposes, I don't think they'd be dancing after he got imprisoned if it meant thier way of life would end.

Excellent point. With Ganondorf sealed in the Sacred Realm, the Gerudo would have to wait about 70 years for a new male to be born and then another 12 or so until Ganondorf reaches the age where he can make love. The entire theory is nonsensical when you have to take points as these into account.

Originally Posted by Raian

Excellent point. With Ganondorf sealed in the Sacred Realm, the Gerudo would have to wait about 70 years for a new male to be born and then another 12 or so until Ganondorf reaches the age where he can make love. The entire theory is nonsensical when you have to take points as these into account.

And the fact that the game mentions the Gerudo and Hylian thing; surely something like this would be mentioned also?