ATTN All Theorists! A summary of timeline discoveries on ZU.

Since the board has become much more concentrated in it's discussion, I think it is worth providing (almost) all the main timeline discoveries that have been made over the last few months here on ZU. Since most of them were made from debates between myself and LionHarted, I do not know how much you all have read, so please DON'T post to say you already know some of these discoveries. Either provide elaboration on particular points or argument against particular points. Again, you do not need to reply to every single point.


- Ganondorf in OoT sent Link the letter-in-a-bottle in order to give Link the incentive to ask for the Spiritual Stone from Ruto. Although some have contested this, it is the popular conclusion.

- It was discovered by MoALTTP that the Hylian text in TMC referred to the "Triumph Forks", which were what the Triforce pieces were called in TWW. Whether this is a timeline detail or an easter egg is still debated; a lot of the art designs (i.e. sprites and items) from TWW were also used heavily in TMC.

- Judging from the context of the inscription beside the Trident's resting place in FSA, we can assess that whoever had made the Trident had prophecised Ganondorf's rebirth and set up the Trident for him to claim and become the King of Darkness Ganon. It also further proves his reincarnation from OoT.

- Reading the OoA/OoS script again, nowhere does it say that Ganon was revived from the Dark World, only that Onox and Veran were summoned from it.

- The mechanics of the Dark World here: A new look at the Dark World: Is it really a world at all?
with a few major changes since then (this explains how the Dark World spreads to other worlds):

1) The Dark World exists as a separate dimension aside from Hyrule and the Sacred Realm even when Ganon is dead.
2) The power of darkness that Ganon spreads around Hyrule/Sacred Realm acts as a magnet for the Dark World; as the power of darkness gets stronger, the Dark World begins to consume that world. However, when the source of the darkness (Ganon) dies, the remaining power of the Dark World lingers for many years afterwards.
3)When Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm, his evil heart reflects as darkness and the Dark World consumes it, turning it into the Evil Realm. To consume Hyrule with the Dark World, Ganon needs to cover Hyrule in the power of darkness as well. Ganondorf has the power of darkness in OoT, but not enough for the Dark World to consume Hyrule, which is why he seeks the Triforce.

- One consistent metaphorical reference to the Evil Realm is that it exists "below", like an abyss. We see this in OoT's reference to it as a "void" and TWW refers to Ganon as the evil that "once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs."

- Looking at the mechanics of the Dark World , we can infer that AoL's World of Spirits is the Dark World (it is also possibly the Evil Realm). NOTE: The Underworld in LoZ is NOT the Dark World, but literally underground.

-It can be argued that Ganon's complete transformation from Gerudo into the Pig represents a large increase in the power of darkness that he possesses. In the Pig form, Ganon is much more able to spread darkness and hence consume Hyrule with the Dark World (LionHarted disagrees with me on this though).


Important Questions: Discussions where a conclusion couldn't be reached (PLEASE DON'T REPLY WITHOUT SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO ADD).

- Were the Zuna tribe's ancestors good or evil?
- Did the Zoras evolve into Ritos or were they transformed by the Gods?
- Is the Trident (combined with the stolen Hyrulean's power) enough for Ganon to consume Hyrule with the Dark World?
- The bloodline of the Sages (MASS CONFUSION).
- The fading of the Hylian bloodline (to a degree).

While this thread was formed with good intentions, I would like to remind you that, as fans, all "discoveries" are still false until confirmed by miyamoto/aonuma. Please, please keep that in mind.
Yes, some of these discoveries make so much sense that it would be foolish for miyamoto to deny them, but don't start making certain absolutes about zelda when you and I are still in fact, just fans and not creators.

Originally Posted by vacumgod

While this thread was formed with good intentions, I would like to remind you that, as fans, all "discoveries" are still false until confirmed by miyamoto/aonuma. Please, please keep that in mind.
Yes, some of these discoveries make so much sense that it would be foolish for miyamoto to deny them, but don't start making certain absolutes about zelda when you and I are still in fact, just fans and not creators.

Not unless you have substantial evidence to prove so other wise. Unless Miyamoto wants to contradict in game evidence and cannons, then some of these theories should be well off.

These all sound about right, considering discussion.

Something that might be noted; even with the full power of the Triforce, Ganon in the alleged pre-ALttP Seal War still lacks sufficient power to consume Hyrule in darkness, else he would have gone uncontested in the Seal War, given that there was no evil-expelling sword apparently involved in the pre-ALttP version of the Seal War myth.

Originally Posted by vacumgod

While this thread was formed with good intentions, I would like to remind you that, as fans, all "discoveries" are still false until confirmed by miyamoto/aonuma. Please, please keep that in mind.
Yes, some of these discoveries make so much sense that it would be foolish for miyamoto to deny them, but don't start making certain absolutes about zelda when you and I are still in fact, just fans and not creators.

Thats NOT going to fly by me or any of the other people that take these matters to hart. Have you no appreciation vacumgod what we have done? I am sure that there IS a reason why we Wise Men are discovering these things. Miyamoto likes to intrigue there fans with the Zelda series. I find it no mere coincidence, or one big assumption in your eyes, that we have uncovered these things that no one else has EVER taken a team effort to do so.

Please vacumgod, do not denounce everything we do in such a simple response that you gave. I take it to heart and I find it deminishing to our goals and work ethics as a team.

I can't imagine how acknowledging consistencies and drawing obvious and neutral conclusions within the series could possibly be in any way "false". Really the only assumption here is that Ganondorf planted the letter-in-a-bottle, and that one is quite up for interpretation anyway.

Another thing to add: I don't disagree that Ganon has a greater ability to spread darkness while in the pig form; I disagree that the pig form is necessary to spread darkness when one wields a piece of the Triforce. We see the pig form in FSA and ALttP because Ganondorf wields the Trident (and the "spirit of magic trident" that comes with it); I believe that Ganondorf in OoT could have taken this form if he had chosen to do so.

This thing about Ganondorf sending the letter in the bottle makes no sense. Ruto isn't in Jabu Jabu's belly because she CAN"T get out. She's in there because she WON"T get out without the saffire. I'm sure she just threw the bottle down Jabu's mouth or the other end of his digestive tract to get it out.

Where did this "Ganondorf sent the letter" stuff come from?

Given what you've just said, the context of the letter doesn't really make sense, does it?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Given what you've just said, the context of the letter doesn't really make sense, does it?

What did the letter say again? "Help me out, but don't tell my father."???

Can I get a quote before I say Lionhearted was right?

Originally Posted by Letter-in-a-bottle

"Help me.
I'm waiting for you inside
Lord Jabu-Jabu's belly.
--Ruto
PS: Don't tell my father!"

The "don't tell my father" bit almost make it authentic, and it is written in Ruto's handwriting, but Ganondorf is a master thief, and thieves are masters of deception of this kind. He could have easily imitated Ruto's handwriting and colloquialisms. Ruto clearly wants help, according to the letter, though she seems to ardently oppose help when it arrives. Could be typical pre-pubescent girl behavior, but... maybe not...

Originally Posted by LionHarted

The "don't tell my father" bit almost make it authentic, and it is written in Ruto's handwriting, but Ganondorf is a master thief, and thieves are masters of deception of this kind. He could have easily imitated Ruto's handwriting and colloquialisms. Ruto clearly wants help, according to the letter, though she seems to ardently oppose help when it arrives. Could be typical pre-pubescent girl behavior, but... maybe not...

Ooh...I'm undecided. I'd rather believe she was having a moment of good judgement (or weakness), so she wrote the letter. Or maybe she was just put off that a big strong Zora didn't come. Instead she gets a Kokir kid.

There's also the matter of how in the world a fish-girl has a pen and paper and a bottle to put them in while inside of a giant fish...

Originally Posted by LionHarted

There's also the matter of how in the world a fish-girl has a pen and paper and a bottle to put them in while inside of a giant fish...

Jabu Jabu will obviously eat just about anything in front of him. I don't know. The thought of Ganondorf o one of his minions sending the letter doesn't seem so far fetched afterall.

Ahh...I never read that quote from the letter-in-a-bottle, just what King Zora said. I will admit then that the point is up for interpretation.

I do have one new theory to add to the list. If the Evil Realm is referred to as an abyss or the depths of the Earth, could it also be referred to as the Underworld? Could LoZ's Underworld actually be the Evil Realm?

Do you enter LoZ's Underworld by way of portals? Is LoZ's Underworld a "world of spirits"? Is LoZ's Underworld a "monsters' world?"

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Do you enter LoZ's Underworld by way of portals? Is LoZ's Underworld a "world of spirits"? Is LoZ's Underworld a "monsters' world?"

It's not in the manual story, so I don't know. It was just a thought.