Doing the Robot

Finding that I was become increasingly stingy in my allowances for personilization in Timeline Thoery, I endevoured to see what would happen where I to drop induction all togeather. Using my idea of establlished canon as a broad base of axioms, and a very basic understanding of the Deductive Reasoning, I made this attempt to determine what exactly was provable in the Zelda Timeline.

First Attempt: Hylians

Q: Can we identify Hylains?

A: All Hylains are Humanoids
A: All Hylains have Big Ears
A: All Hylains are Telepathic
A: No other qualities are known to be "Hylian"

A: The concept of "Hylian" was created while developing AlttP
A: AoL and LoZ were developed before AlttP
G: The Concept of "Hylian" was developed after AoL and LoZ

A: The Concept of "Hylian" was developed after AoL and LoZ
A: It is impossible to apply non-existent cocepts to a creation
G: It is impossible that the concept of "Hylian" exist in AoL and LoZ

A: AlttP contains humanoids
A: AlttP does not contains Hylains
G: Some Non-Hylains are Humanoid

A: Hylains have died out in AlttP
A: Characters in AlttP are Telepathic:
G: Some Non-Hylians are telepathic

A: Humanoids in AoL have Big Ears
A: Hylians do not exist in AoL
G: Some Non-Hylians have big ears

A: All Hylains are Humanoids
A: Some Non-Hylians are Humanoid
G: Humanoid does not qualify Hylian

A: All Hylains have Big Ears
A: Some Non-Hylians have Big Ears
G: Big Ears do not qualify Hylian

A: All Hylains are Telepathic
A: Some Non-Hylians are Telepathic
G: Telepathy does not qualify Hylain

A: Humanoid does not qualify Hylian
A: Big Ears do not qualify Hylian
A: Telepathy does not qualify Hylain
A: No other qualities are known to be "Hylian"
G: We cannot logically identify Hylians

C: No!

Huh, well that was fun. It all came out pretty fast, but, looking back, it was a lot of work. Still, its an undisputable, deducted proof. In a perfect world, I'd have references for my axioms, but most of them are taken straight out of AlttP, and we're all familiar with them.

Try it out. Axioms (As) are statements of canon or facts of life, Arguments (g) are statements that state the combined implication of these statements.

Actually, not all Hylians are telepathic. All humanoids in OOT are Hylian.
ALTTP DOES have Hylians, and all telepathic humanoids in ALTTP are of Hylian decent. These being the maidens, Sahasrahla, and the royal family.

One can deduce that if someone has long ears and is telepathic, they are Hylian.

AltP Manual:
For that reason they were in possession of tall ears, excelled senses, and the use of magic/sorcery (Psychic powers in the NoA translation). It is said that they passed on [stories of] their magic and prophecies to their descendants, who rooted themselves in all parts of the world.

Clearly, Canonically, all Hylians are is posession of the powers of sorcery.
There is a clear distinction between the Hylians and their decendents (eg; Sahasrahla who posess long ears and Magical ability, but lives in a time where numerous quotes support that Hylains are absent)

Originally Posted by silver arrow

Actually, not all Hylians are telepathic.

Correct. In fact, most of the Hylians in OoT do not have telepathy. The myth about the long ears, however, suggests that all Hylians started off telepathic. Hylian traits are already beginning to diminish by OoT.

All humanoids in OOT are Hylian.

Gerudo, Kokiri, and Sheikah are not Hylian. They all are humanoids, and they all have long ears.

ALTTP DOES have Hylians

Proof? ALttP speaks of Hylians as if they've died out. "Long ago, a people called the Hylians inhabited this land."

and all telepathic humanoids in ALTTP are of Hylian decent.

Proof? The only "telepathic" humanoids in ALttP speak to you through magical tiles that are comparable to the Gossip Stone in TWW. This rule is broken twice, to my knowledge. However, the Hero pendants are remarkably similar to the Gossip Stones. Could they lend the bearers a connection to the Gossip Stones? There are, of course, at least three Gossip Stones in TWW (one used by Link, one used by Zelda/Tetra, one used by the King)--it would make sense that these would be passed on as important heirlooms.

One can deduce that if someone has long ears and is telepathic, they are Hylian.

Saria is Hylian?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Gerudo, Kokiri, and Sheikah are not Hylian. They all are humanoids, and they all have long ears.

Actually, Gerudo have rounded ears. Take a look:




They have rounded ears.

What? I see pointed ears.



OMG! Link's ears are ROUNDED!

1) Link's ears are short in TWW but they are definitely pointed.

2) Maybe I'm wrong but people seem to be getting confused between telepathy and "hearing voices of the Gods". For the Hylians to hear the voices of the Gods, the Gods first have to speak to the Hylians. One man in OoT says he has never heard them but the Gods told the Hylians to climb to the mountaintops before Hyrule was flooded. It's about necessity. As for telepathy, I don't think that it is related to the Hylians, but to the special families such as the Sages.

Originally Posted by jhurvid

1) Link's ears are short in TWW but they are definitely pointed.

Enlarge both of the Gerudo images and you'll see that their ears are pointed, as well. Of course, the only trait regarding the ears that is attributed to the Hylians in the ALttP manual is "long ears", not "pointed ears". I don't really see why people even bother. The ears of most people in TWW are obviously not long, as we see in OoT and TP. Only a few people--Tetra, Aryll, Link--have "long ears" but they are still considerably shorter than they used to be.

One man in OoT says he has never heard them but the Gods told the Hylians to climb to the mountaintops before Hyrule was flooded. It's about necessity.

In TWW, though, we see that the gods are not above coming down to earth to speak with people, so that may also be the cause for their being able to hear them.

As for telepathy, I don't think that it is related to the Hylians, but to the special families such as the Sages.

Mind-communicating powers are also available few incredibly random people and those with access to the network of Gossip Stones, and likely the Sheikah as well.

Originally Posted by Ghost Shop Owner

Heh heh he...don't be surprised. I can read people's minds.

Originally Posted by Happy Mask Salesman

This is the Mask of Truth. It is a mysterious mask passed down by the Sheikah. With this mask you can see into other people's minds...

Originally Posted by Gossip Stone

This statue's one-eyed gaze pierces into your mind...

When I look at Link's ears, they bend outwards to the point. When I look at the OoT Gerudo's ears, they have a very slight point but the ears don't bend outwards to make that point. If the Gerudo were meant to have pointy ears, it would have been more exaggerated. As it is, the points are hardly visible.

Again, jhurvid, the trait is long ears, not pointy ears. The longness of the ears is far more pronounced in-game. Also, while I can't upload a clear shot of it, I'm fairly certain that the stained-glass image of Nabooru in TWW depicts her with long ears, too.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Gerudo, Kokiri, and Sheikah are not Hylian. They all are humanoids, and they all have long ears.

I meant all humans...If you consider Hylian human....well you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Proof? ALttP speaks of Hylians as if they've died out.

Link is decended of the Hylian knights = Hylian
The maidens are decended of the Hylian sages = Hylian
Sahasrahla is also decended of the Hylian sages = Hylian
The royal family decends from the royal family of ancient times = Hylian

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Proof? The only "telepathic" humanoids in ALttP speak to you through magical tiles that are comparable to the Gossip Stone in TWW. This rule is broken twice, to my knowledge. However, the Hero pendants are remarkably similar to the Gossip Stones. Could they lend the bearers a connection to the Gossip Stones? There are, of course, at least three Gossip Stones in TWW (one used by Link, one used by Zelda/Tetra, one used by the King)--it would make sense that these would be passed on as important heirlooms.

I've never really thought of that. They could be using the pendants as gossip stones as you say though Zelda certainly wasn't and she certainly IS Hylian.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Saria is Hylian?

Again, by humanoid I meant human. Hylians being a breed of human.

okay the ears are long & pointy who cares there only ears!!!

Originally Posted by silver arrow

Link is decended of the Hylian knights = Hylian
The maidens are decended of the Hylian sages = Hylian
Sahasrahla is also decended of the Hylian sages = Hylian
The royal family decends from the royal family of ancient times = Hylian

The Hylian blood has thinned over time. People =/= Hylian.

They could be using the pendants as gossip stones as you say though Zelda certainly wasn't and she certainly IS Hylian.

You speak to Zelda through tiles too, not just Sahasrahla. Of course, Zelda has always had strange telepathic powers, Hylian or not, because she is a Sage, so this isn't really relevant. Sages don't have to be Hylian.

Again, by humanoid I meant human. Hylians being a breed of human.

You mean, by "Hylian", you meant "human." Which is what I'm saying. Ths traits you describe are not unique to Hylians.

wow good thread everyone keep it up, I enjoy thoroughly reading the whole thread over and over!!!

Originally Posted by LionHarted

The Hylian blood has thinned over time. People =/= Hylian.

But they still have hylian blood. Thinned though it may be it still exists.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

You speak to Zelda through tiles too, not just Sahasrahla. Of course, Zelda has always had strange telepathic powers, Hylian or not, because she is a Sage, so this isn't really relevant. Sages don't have to be Hylian.

I don't remember any tiles while link is in his bed at the beginnning of the game.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

You mean, by "Hylian", you meant "human." Which is what I'm saying. Ths traits you describe are not unique to Hylians.

No, I meant "by humanoid I meant human." Meaning I didn't mean Gerudo or Kokiri.
What I'm saying is, is that a human with long ears and telepathy is most likely Hylian. Not 100% definately Hylian though.