A couple of points about Oracles (small points)

I actually completed a linked Oracles game for the very first time today. Reading the text, I realised something that prompted me to check the OoA and OoS scripts on zeldalegends and they supported what I had read. Unless I am severely mistaken, there is no quote in Oracles that says Ganon was revived from the Dark Realm. There are quotes referring to Onox and Veran being summoned from the Dark Realm (or the darkness), but not Ganon being resurrected from it. Could this be a mistake on our part? I'm sure the quote was mentioned somewhere, and yet I can't see the quote on zeldalegends or in the linked game either.


My other point is that Twinrova refers to Ganon as "the Gerudo King" and "the dark rites of the Gerudo" in Oracles, which contradicts the "noble" character of the Gerudo in FSA. The question I want to ask LOZHistorian and LionHarted is, could the Gerudo develop an evil nature over the course of the timeline (like the SW refers to them as "the race of evil thieves"), or is Oracles simply spewing rubbish to contradict what we already know of the Gerudo.

Originally Posted by jhurvid

My other point is that Twinrova refers to Ganon as "the Gerudo King" and "the dark rites of the Gerudo" in Oracles, which contradicts the "noble" character of the Gerudo in FSA.

Simply because the Gerudo develop a "noble" character does not mean that their heritage of "dark rites" cannot still exist, especially when we're dealing with Twinrova and Ganon, both of whom have evil characters, and both of whom return after death to threaten Hyrule over and over again.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Simply because the Gerudo develop a "noble" character does not mean that their heritage of "dark rites" cannot still exist, especially when we're dealing with Twinrova and Ganon, both of whom have evil characters, and both of whom return after death to threaten Hyrule over and over again.

Very good answer. Please tell me if you can find the quote that says Ganon was about to be resurrected from the Dark Realm because we will have wasted a lot of time if that quote turned out not to exist.

The quote is actually that he would be "guided" to the lights of the three beacons. It doesn't say he's coming from the Dark Realm--only that Veran and Onox come from it. I don't know why we ever assumed it. This would be a case of me consenting to someone else's idea without developing it myself. =/

Originally Posted by OoA

By extending the
reach of the
Dark Realm,
Veran has spread
sorrow across
the land.

So, actually, "Dark Realm" simply is another name for the "Dark World" of FSA, I'm guessing--a world where monsters roam, and a world of darkness that can be spread across the land. Also looking at this quote--Ganon doesn't have to be the one to spread it.

That's just what I thought. I think I'm coming to see your way of thinking about what the Dark World actually is. Imagine how easy this discussion would have been if we established this fact earlier. Do you think it's necessary to tell the other Wise Men about this or shall we leave them to their own works?

So, based on what you seem to realize now about my way of thinking regarding the Dark World, could you try to summarize my idea so I can see if we're on the same page?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

So, based on what you seem to realize now about my way of thinking regarding the Dark World, could you try to summarize my idea so I can see if we're on the same page?

My original interpretation was:

"The Dark World is non-existent unless Ganon is alive and has the power to spread darkness. As the darkness spreads, it begins to consume Hyrule, turning it into a "World of Darkness". FSA's Dark World represents the darkness in the process of consuming Hyrule. ALTTP'S Dark World represents the Sacred Realm that had been completely consumed by the darkness."

I can take some of these representatives across to your interpretation:

"The Dark World is made from the power of darkness that exists as a world in it's own right. As the power of darkness spreads to consume Hyrule (from Ganon as the source), the Dark World merges with Hyrule as part of that consumption. When Hyrule or the Sacred Realm is completely consumed by the darkness, the world becomes completely covered by the power of darkness, the Dark World."

I use a lot of representatives in this explanation because I think the whole concept of the Dark World is mostly metaphorical. Do you agree with this standpoint?

I think it is imperative that the Dark World be considered an actual "world"--the hell to the Sacred Realm's heaven, as the translation of the "realm of evil/world of spirits" implies--because evil beings are very often said to enter the world from the Dark World. The reason why I would say the Dark World spreads while the Sacred Realm does not is because the Dark World, by its very nature, consumes and corrupts. The Sacred Realm does not have this trait. The Dark World, I would say, spreads due to the power of darkness commonly associated with Ganon, but exists and can spread independently of him (as we see in OoS/OoA and AoL).

Lion Harted. I believe in jhurvids interpretation of the Dark World when Ganon is not alive controling it in some way. I do however believe that your interpretation of the Dark World comes into play when Ganon uses the Dark World to take over other worlds on a maive scale like that of the Sacred Realm or Underworld.

If the Dark World can exist while Ganon is dead, why is it such a far stretch to believe that it exists when he is not yet alive?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

If the Dark World can exist while Ganon is dead, why is it such a far stretch to believe that it exists when he is not yet alive?

It does exist when he is not alive. When he is destroyed, that world looses its grip over other worlds and only exists as labled areas around points to enter in Hyrule, like jhurvid explains this case in FSA.

One thing that is important to remember, LionHarted, is that the Sacred Realm is by no means "heaven". The Triforce cannot judge good or evil and the Sacred Realm can spawn evil just as easily as the Dark World when Ganon takes control (i.e. OoT's Evil Realm).

The point of my original interpretation was that the power of darkness spawns darkness in it's many forms. The Dark World is a form of darkness but as made from darkness, it can spawn monsters formed from darkness. As something made from darkness, the only way of proving that the Dark World exists outside of Ganon's spreading darkness act is to show that it exists when Ganon is dead, which Oracles does if it can be taken seriously.

So I'm going to go with the popular vote in this case. The Dark World exists separately from other worlds until Ganon spreads darkness within a world, at which point the Dark World moves to consume that world and transform it into darkness.

Originally Posted by OoT

The three great goddesses, their labors completed, departed for the heavens. And golden sacred triangles remained at the point where the goddesses left the world. Since then, the sacred triangles have become the basis of our world's providence.And, the resting place of the triangles has become the Sacred Realm.

Goddesses depart for heavens, sacred triangles left at the point where they left the world. The sacred triangles become the basis of providence (i.e., literally, the "resting place of the divine powers"). That's enough to demonstrate that the Realm is a heaven, my friend. The status of the Sacred Realm as a "heaven" has nothing to do with it being good or evil. It has to do with it being an abode of the divine. Conversely, the status of the Dark World as a "hell" has nothing to do with it being good or evil, but, rather, with its being an abode for demons. Ironic, isn't it, that the word "hell" matches all your definitions of the Dark World:

Originally Posted by Hell

1. the place or state of punishment of the wicked after death; the abode of evil and condemned spirits; Gehenna or Tartarus.
2. any place or state of torment or misery: They made their father's life a hell on earth.
3. something that causes torment or misery: Having that cut stitched without anesthesia was hell.
4. the powers of evil.
5. the abode of the dead; Sheol or Hades.

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this analysis. The goddesses departed for the heavens but the Triforce was left behind in the Sacred Realm to govern the land of Hyrule.

Just as you pointed out that the Dark World can represent Hell as a world of evil, the Sacred Realm should reflect the power of good if it is meant to be heaven. But the Sacred Realm does not reflect the power of good, only the heart of the one who touches the Triforce. I can see what you're trying to achieve but the principle of heaven does not match the principle of the Sacred Realm.

Tell me--what is the "power of good"?

Furthermore, what is the "principle of heaven"?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Tell me--what is the "power of good"?

Furthermore, what is the "principle of heaven"?

As you know, the powers of light and darkness are ultimate opponents, with one power smiting the other depending on which is stronger. The Dark World is so called because it is made from the power of darkness. If the Dark World represents Hell then for the Sacred Realm to represent Heaven, it must be made of the opponent to darkness, the power of light. The Sacred Realm has never been associated with the power of light, however, and it actually reflects evil if such a wicked man enters the Realm.

The principle that heaven is represents the power of light does not match with the Sacred Realm's principle to reflect the heart.

There is no prin