Introspection

I beleive in the Double Timeline because Aonuma confirmed it in Summer 2002 Gamepro Article.
Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult.

>Do you honestly beleive developer quotes to be canonical?

Of course not. This quote, however, shows that Nintendo fully intended to differentiate between an MM "ending" and a tWW "ending" to OOT: two sperate futures sprining from the same past.

>I thought we were against abusing literal interpretation for our personal gain. "Ending" could simply refer to the nature of events in which the game concludes. MM follows the events concerned with young Link, while tWW follows the evnts concerning the greater plight of Hyrule in general.

Meh, there's no proof either way. We don't exactly speak Japanese. The Double Timeline is still at least a possiblity, and you have no proof against it.

>tWW discusses and pictures the Hero of Time leaving the land of Hyrule on his second quest. This is part of Majora's Mask's storyline, and, in a Double timeline, it would not be memorable in tWW.

Perhaps it meant Link "left" Hyrule when Zelda sent him through time, his "second quest" is the instructions gievn to him by Zelda while they say there goodbyes in the sky. Its possible!

>He's on a horse!

Artwork, please remember, is not canon.

>Uh-huh... and waht about the Legend of The Fairy. Tingle certainly wasn't in OOT.

TLOF was added (A) as a unique "prize" for peripheral users and (B) as an amusing reference for Nostalgic fans. This addition was made without any regard what so ever to the story, with no intent to influence the story. It is an Easter Egg.

>Bill Trinen said the Legend was imprtant...

Important to what? The bloody Tingle RPG? I'm telling you its irrelevant.

>Riiiiiight. Anyway, none of this is important. The Double Timeline is the theory, not the fact. The burden of proof is on you. Timelining is about building knowledge, not dissing fanfic.

Well that's true...

>Get on with it then.

Its simple, really. The single timeline requires the existence of two Ocarina and Two Eponas, it is chalk full of small inconcistencies that make it completely unaccaptable. The double timeline, being the second simplest explanation, can then be accepted as standard.

>What? That's crazy. Aonuma has told us time and time again that he's creating a game, not a novel. If an element of gameplay comes into conflict with an element of the story, its the story that ends up taking one for the team. Every time. These little inconcistencies are unintentional and, in the grand scheme of things, mean very very little. Certainly less than the Legend of the Fairy!

But you can't just ignore the logic! If something can't possibly happen then, regardless of intent, it does not happen. that's simple.

>Think outside the box a little. Malon's comments on Epona are certainly not concrete, perhaps she was just a bit carless with her syntax, perhaps she a duncy farm girl who is unable to fully comprehend the situation. There are thousands of reasons she could have been mistaken when she remarked "nobody else could ever tame that horse".

And the Ocarina inconsitency? If Link is physically sent back at the end of OOT, then he should not take the Ocarina of Time with him. It is not on his person at the time!

>Come on man! Some strange magic is capable of retunring him to a childhood state, of giving him back his Deku sheild and Kokirir sword. Should not this process also return his Ocarina.

But your modifying OOT's time travel mechanics for your personal gain!

>So are you...

What do you mean?

>All evidence points to OOT having an immutable timeline. Allowing Link to change the past under special cicumstances at the end of OOTR is inane. You're a hypocrite.

Well tell me then, oh wise one, how does OOT time travel behave?

>It doesn't! There is no physics formula to the situation. OOT timetravel was created for the purpose of enriching one of the greatest games ever created. It was never meant for physical analysis. The entire process is logically flawed.
All your arguments, your logic based onb this illogic, are useless. The Single Timeline stands.

*Sigh*

>I'll just give you a moment to collect your thoughts...

What about the feel of OOT's ending? We're supposed to be rewarded with a time of peace. Link is supposed to get his life back. Ganon is supposed to be defeated. I just can't beleive Nintendo would create a situation where Hyrule is ravaged and enslaved all over again...

>Good will still prevail in the end.

But its not the same. I'm emotionally invested in this thing. I want an ending to be an ending. I want closure. I want victory.

>And Termina?

What about it?

>Well, a Double timeline may create a peaceful Hyrule seven years earliar, but it also results in Armagedon for the Mask World. Who can save it in the adult branch?

Sure but...

>And didn't you feeel you had saved Termina at the conclusion of MM, in the same manner you fealt you had saved Hyrule at the end of OOT.

I suppose, still...

>And aren't you more "invsted" in MM's world than OOt's. Are its characters not truer, its stories not more worthy of your empathy?

They really are, and...

>So what have you got. Developer quotes, Canon, Intent, emotion, its all for naught. Your expected to prove the Double Timeline, and there is nothing in your favour. No, I don not have some grand system of proof, but it is unnesasary. I am not suggesting this grand world splitting scheme. I'm not suggesting anything. Single Time is the status quo, do you still see any reason to break it?

No...

>So does that mean?

Yeah.. I guess it does...

Normally, talking to yourself as two different people is a sign of insanity...

But I can understand what's going on

In short, a split timeline is either impossible or highly improbable for the following reasons:

1) There is no logic in Zelda time travel, i.e., any attempt to explain the time travel in the ending of OoT using logic is futile. The split timeline relies on so-called "logical inconsistencies" between OoT and MM to justify its existence, ergo, all evidence towards a split timeline is inconsequential (i.e., it cannot stand alone to justify the conclusion);

2) If there is a split timeline, no games featuring Link can appear after the Adult timeline, since Link disappears from that timeline, and therefore cannot have any descendants. Since TP and TWW occur at intervals after Adult Link defeats Ganon in OoT, a split timeline is impossible. Logic is admissible as evidence in this case, since the logic employed here is unrelated to time travel--if someone does not exist, that someone cannot sire children. Common sense;

3) Since when do game developers put that much thought into storyline? A linear storyline is much easier to work with, and, without any evidence outside of the inconsequential to support it, a split timeline is not the most probable answer to the OoT-MM "problem".

>Think outside the box a little. Malon's comments on Epona are certainly not concrete, perhaps she was just a bit carless with her syntax, perhaps she a duncy farm girl who is unable to fully comprehend the situation. There are thousands of reasons she could have been mistaken when she remarked "nobody else could ever tame that horse".

I don't understand the inconsistency here. Is it just that Romani was sort of able to tame Epone? That isn't illogical since she was Malon's Terminian twin and somehow knew Epona's Song.

What about the feel of OOT's ending? We're supposed to be rewarded with a time of peace. Link is supposed to get his life back. Ganon is supposed to be defeated. I just can't beleive Nintendo would create a situation where Hyrule is ravaged and enslaved all over again...

Nothing in OoT implied that all those events would have to be relived. Ganondorf was in the Evil Realm at the end of OoT when Link was a kid again, but this time the Door of Time. It's unclear whether time was altered in the Evil Realm as well as in Hyrule, but either way Ganondorf was trapped.

There is no use in bringing that blasted theory up again.

How about you provide us an interview quote of Anouma direclty saying that there is a Split Timeline Theory, huh.

There is still no proof that can entirely dismiss the theory either, since our logic of time travel is limited.

I do believe in the Split Timeline Thoery, and hope to once again bring it back to life after its extinction nears. I work alone on this theory, but once I have the evidence to back myself, I'll explain how it could make certain sense in comparison to the Linear Timeline.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

[b]
2) If there is a split timeline, no games featuring Link can appear after the Adult timeline, since Link disappears from that timeline, and therefore cannot have any descendants. Since TP and TWW occur at intervals after Adult Link defeats Ganon in OoT, a split timeline is impossible. Logic is admissible as evidence in this case, since the logic employed here is unrelated to time travel--if someone does not exist, that someone cannot sire children. Common sense;

Since when does every Link need to be a descendant of the other? There is no proof at all that the Links are all biologically connected. Reincarnation was brought up in WW, but it depends on the religious beliefs of others whether this is true or not. I'm not religious, but I still believe reincarnation plays a role with new Links being born.

TWW says that Link is the Hero of Time reborn. But how can this be if the Hero of Time dies in another timeline?

Originally Posted by jhurvid

TWW says that Link is the Hero of Time reborn. But how can this be if the Hero of Time dies in another timeline?

Ganondorf stated this if I'm correct. It's his belief of reincarnation, but can we be "truly" certain that he's the Hero of time reborn? Or simply a boy with a destiny?

I would assume the Godesses (especially Nayru) have access to how time works. Reincarnation may somehow work between the 2 dimensions, but it really is a matter of belief. Nobody knows where you go after death. Heaven or a New Life, but what remains is that there are still 2 different time periods that are taking place and moving forward.

Whoa, I didn't even notice this thread was being bumped...

LoZ Historian, Hylian Dan, I think you mistook my intent. Two weeks ago, this thread was created here so I could Link to it from GameFAQs (where the post limit annoys me), and to offer the same bit of perspecrtive here. It is my own personal arugments for and against the Double Timeline, in a very simplified forum. It was my intent for the "single" voice to win most of the arguments...

Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel

Ganondorf stated this if I'm correct. It's his belief of reincarnation, but can we be "truly" certain that he's the Hero of time reborn? Or simply a boy with a destiny?

Let's look at the countless quotes made by TWW characters supporting that Link is, indeed, the Hero of Time, reborn. Then let's look at the prevailing concept of inheritance throughout the series. The King of the Gerudo, the Sages, the Knights, and the Hero in ALttP all gain their roles through inheritance. Why should we defy this trend?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Let's look at the countless quotes made by TWW characters supporting that Link is, indeed, the Hero of Time, reborn. Then let's look at the prevailing concept of inheritance throughout the series. The King of the Gerudo, the Sages, the Knights, and the Hero in ALttP all gain their roles through inheritance. Why should we defy this trend?

The quotes leads to nothing claiming that he's the Hero of Time reborn. It seems noticable he is mistaken for the hero, due to the green clothing, and the sudden rise of evil across the ocean. However, unlike in OOT, there was no prophecy claiming that a hero would rise to save the great ocean and stop Gaondorf, so I could be wrong here.

Link's inheritance comes from the blood line of the royal knights in ALTTP correct? That is one sign of inheritance in the series yes, but how does this reflect on connecting OOT and WW? I'm still trying to assemble the pieces of the puzzle that makes the Split Theory seem possible. Though while a tough task it seems so far, I intend to make things right.

However, unlike in OOT, there was no prophecy claiming that a hero would rise to save the great ocean and stop Gaondorf, so I could be wrong here.

There is a prophecy. =/

Originally Posted by Deku Tree

When the worst of all possible events
comes to pass, and Ganon is revived
once again...

One shall seek the hero who is destined
to defeat the great evil...

That is the destiny the goddesses have
placed upon the King of Red Lions.

Since that day, he has been sailing the
Great Sea in search of a young hero not
unlike yourself.

Where do you find these quotes??

And where was that stated in WW?

Either way, as I said previosly, WW Link could simply be a boy, chosen by destiny, to save the Great Ocean. He's only sometimes referred to as the Hero of Time because of the uncanny resemblance, and the familiar courage that the child possesses.
Otherwise, all Links would have to be reincarnations from the Hero of Time and afterwards.

After your first visit to the Deku Tree, talk to him and you'll be able to ask him some questions: "About the Koroks", "About the King of Red Lions", etc.

I find all my quotes from ZeldaLegends.com's quote FAQs.

He's only sometimes referred to as the Hero of Time because of the uncanny resemblance, and the familiar courage that the child possesses.

The King of Red Lions was supposed to find not only a hero, but the Hero of Time.

Originally Posted by Jabun

If you have sought me out...it must mean
you have found the Hero of Time,
does it not?

Originally Posted by LionHarted

After your first visit to the Deku Tree, talk to him and you'll be able to ask him some questions: "About the Koroks", "About the King of Red Lions", etc.

I find all my quotes from ZeldaLegends.com's quote FAQs.

The King of Red Lions was supposed to find not only a hero, but the Hero of Time.

It's a simple misconception. How do you expect to find a being who has been long dead for centures? (or in the case of a split timeline, find someone who ceases to exist in your dimension). It's not like they're psychic and can tell just by looking at him "OMG, he's the HERO OF TIME! WE'RE SAVED!" its'n to how it works

Originally Posted by The Great Deku Tree

"That garb you wear... Could you be the legendary hero? Has the king at long last found the Hero of Time?"

You see? Ancient spirits such as the Deku Tree even believe that this young Link himself is the Hero of Time due to his clothing and general image. Why do you think he spoke to him in the Hylian tongue? Link didn't understand him, only then did he notice he couldn't be the hero.