A new look at the Dark World: Is it really a world at all?

This is an attempt to develop a consistent explanation for the Dark World in light of the problem that FSA has caused by creating a separate Dark World to the Sacred Realm. Although TP might show something to contradict this explanation, I will work with this in the meantime.

The basis of this explanation is one point that has been particularly emphasised in FSA. Ganon (in his pig form) represents the source of all darkness in Hyrule. The first time we see him in FSA, he was in the form of a raw patch of darkness. When Ganon was sealed away within the Four Sword, Zelda again referred to him as the darkness.

Originally Posted by FSA

Place the sword that sealed away the darkness on the pedestal.

Ganon does get his powers of darkness from external sources but it is important to understand that the darkness becomes literally his when he receives such power. Despite getting strength from the Triforce of Power, the powers of darkness were still attributed to Ganon.

Originally Posted by OoT

He obtained the Triforce from the Temple of Light, and with its power, he became the King of Evil... His evil power radiated from the temples of Hyrule, and in seven short years, it transformed Hyrule into a world of monsters.

Ancient Creators of Hyrule! Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!

With this in mind, we also see Ganon create portals to the Dark World with the Trident at the end of FSA. However, is it only the portals that Ganon creates in FSA? The Dark World is short for the definition "World of Darkness" as used in ALTTP. As a world made from darkness, it could also have been "made" when Ganon came to power in FSA. We know that the World of Darkness disappeared soon after Ganon died in ALTTP, so it suggests that this is the case.

Originally Posted by ALTTP

Ganon's wish was to claim the world. That evil wish changed the sacred land into the World of Darkness. Once he had stored up power there, Ganon intended come out into the World of Light in order to fulfill his wish. However, now that Ganon, who touched the Triforce, has fallen, the World of Darkness shall disappear as well.

However, the definiton of "World of Darkness" might not be what we assume and see in FSA. In ALTTP, the Dark World was not a separate world but the Sacred Realm that had been covered by Ganon's powers of darkness.

Originally Posted by ALTTP

The place where you are now standing is the world that was originally called the sacred land... However, now, the demons run rampant. It is, so to speak, a world of darkness.

But isn't this almost exactly the same state of affairs that are beginning to occur in Hyrule in FSA? Demons run rampant, Vaati is siphoning energy from Hyrule, darkness is covering the land... As this continues, could the Dark World be covering Hyrule as it did with the Sacred Realm? If events had been left to continue as they were, would Hyrule literally have become the Dark World in FSA?

Originally Posted by FSA

We...grant you...power to...ruin...the world. The power of...darkness.

His goal must be to use Vaati to remake Hyrule into a land of darkness.

He who plunged Hyrule into darkness draws near!

My theory is that the Dark World is not a world in it’s own right that was simply always there even before Ganon took the Trident. The Dark World is a physical representative of Ganon’s power spreading within the land that he physically exists in. In FSA, Ganon’s power was spreading to Hyrule. In ALTTP, Ganon’s power had completely covered the Sacred Realm. When the portals to the Sacred Realm were opened in ALTTP, Ganon could then have covered Hyrule in darkness in the same way that he had done with the Sacred Realm.

Originally Posted by SW

However, the situation was urgent, and Ganon's malice was enclosing on the royal palace.

Now, OoT contradicts this concept because Ganondorf is physically in the world of Hyrule (Ganon’s Tower to be exact) and yet the Dark World has not completely covered Hyrule over those seven years. My explanation for this is that despite his title, Ganondorf in OoT did not have enough strength to become the true King of Darkness and actually spread the Dark World. The pig form can act as a representation of Ganon’s strength. In OoT’s ending, Ganondorf tries to become the pig form Ganon but is forced back into his original form when defeated by Link. Although Ganondorf cannot spread the Dark World in OoT, the power that he gains from the transformation of the Sacred Realm into the Evil Realm is enough to spread evil to Hyrule.

Originally Posted by OoT

The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart... the heart of one who enters it... If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will become a paradise.

There are similarities between the Evil Realm and the Dark World so perhaps OoT represents what Ganon’s true power would have been if Ganondorf had enough strength to complete the transformation into the complete incarnation of darkness. This might even be reflected in TP’s Twilight Realm as it follows the same principles as the Dark World.

This leaves LoZ to contend with as Ganon was also physically in Hyrule but there was no speak of a Dark World in that game. However, there may be a good explanation for this, other than that the spreading Dark World is represented by the demons wreaking havoc around Hyrule.

Originally Posted by FSA

It's a sacred sword able to smite the darkness. And that's not all. It also grants you the power to see the shadowy Dark World.

Incredible! You can sense the Moon Gates? ...Then perhaps you can save our village!

FSA implies that the Dark World (or at least the portals to the Dark World) is mostly invisible to those who don’t have the ability to sense the Dark World. Link in FSA held the Four Sword so he can see the Dark World, but Link in LoZ didn’t hold the Four Sword so the Dark World would have been invisible to him. I guess it’s a picky explanation but it does the job.

Could it be that FSA is overwriting the function of the Moon Pearl in ALttP, and giving it the power to open portals to the Dark World? It seems that the Four Sword, with its power to pierce darkness, is also connected to the Dark World. Since you don't exactly "use" the Moon Pearl in ALttP until after you get the Master Sword, it would be easy for Nintendo to overwrite the function of the Moon Pearl to allow it to be more connected to portals, and grant the darkness-smiting swords the power to protect the bearers from the Dark World's transformation power.

This would explain why Link doesn't transform in the Dark World in FSA (because he has the Four Sword), and it may be used as a gameplay element in TP to allow Link to wander areas of the Twilight without transforming.

But isn't this almost exactly the same state of affairs that are beginning to occur in Hyrule in FSA? Demons run rampant, Vaati is siphoning energy from Hyrule, darkness is covering the land... As this continues, could the Dark World be covering Hyrule as it did with the Sacred Realm? If events had been left to continue as they were, would Hyrule literally have become the Dark World in FSA?

*looks at FSA World 5* "Dark World". *sees what is essentially Skull Woods*

Yes. Hyrule would literally have become the Dark World in FSA.

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Could it be that FSA is overwriting the function of the Moon Pearl in ALttP, and giving it the power to open portals to the Dark World? It seems that the Four Sword, with its power to pierce darkness, is also connected to the Dark World. Since you don't exactly "use" the Moon Pearl in ALttP until after you get the Master Sword, it would be easy for Nintendo to overwrite the function of the Moon Pearl to allow it to be more connected to portals, and grant the darkness-smiting swords the power to protect the bearers from the Dark World's transformation power.

This would explain why Link doesn't transform in the Dark World in FSA (because he has the Four Sword), and it may be used as a gameplay element in TP to allow Link to wander areas of the Twilight without transforming.

ALTTP's Moon Pearl actually implied a connection with the "Legendary Hero" like the Magic Mirror. I would be willing to speculate that they are not the same items, even though they have the same names. That said, the exact form in which the Dark World spreads and it's ability to transform people has varied enormously between different games and I can't see any real logic to what causes this variation, other than gameplay of course.

Blargh, I've never liked the suggestion that two items of the same name are not atleast deeply connected, if not exactly the same. There are alot of words out there, and we all know Nintendo has an imagination.

Any soup, (!!!!!!!)
Makes almost perfect sence to me, jhurvid, very well done.
Its so easy to picture; Ganon at the center of some invisible plauge, true darkness, spreading unknowably beneath the light, staining the world above with choas and despair. Only true to its demon denizens and the Hero that gaurds us from them.

The proof is there, I can think of no arguments: Theory Accepted.

*Wishes he had more to say...*
*Runs laughing madly into the night*

Originally Posted by mmmmm_PIE

The proof is there, I can think of no arguments: Theory Accepted.

*Wishes he had more to say...*
*Runs laughing madly into the night*

Thankyou very much!

Pretty interesting. I'm just glad that this isn't another "7 year future is the dark world" theory that's been going around sites.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

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TP's Master Sword demonstrates that the Master Sword can, indeed, repel the effects of "dark worlds".

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Originally Posted by LionHarted

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

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TP's Master Sword demonstrates that the Master Sword can, indeed, repel the effects of "dark worlds".

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It's the power to repel evil so I wouldn't be at all surprised at that. Do you think there might be a correlation between the Dark World's ability to transform people into their reflective selves and the power from which the Dark World is made (i.e. the Triforce/Triforce of Power in contrast to the power of darkness, the Trident)?

EDIT: New TP Trailer in the follow trailer.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics...tation/12.html

Why do I get the impression that the Twilight Realm is going to be so much different from what we already know about the Dark World?

Originally Posted by jhurvid

It's the power to repel evil so I wouldn't be at all surprised at that. Do you think there might be a correlation between the Dark World's ability to transform people into their reflective selves and the power from which the Dark World is made (i.e. the Triforce/Triforce of Power in contrast to the power of darkness, the Trident)?

My theory is as it has always been--it is the Dark World that transforms people (as it transforms the land, perhaps?), not the Sacred Realm. The fact that the Triforce is behind it in OoT and ALttP [and TP], and that ALttP [and TP] are the only games in which we see transformation seems to support this.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

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I'm pretty sure that's the Temple of Time. Notice that it's mostly destroyed.

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Originally Posted by LionHarted

My theory is as it has always been--it is the Dark World that transforms people (as it transforms the land, perhaps?), not the Sacred Realm. The fact that the Triforce is behind it in OoT and ALttP [and TP], and that ALttP [and TP] are the only games in which we see transformation seems to support this.

ALTTP's Dark World was made with the Triforce. There was transformation there.
FSA's Dark World was made with the Trident. There was no transformation there.

I guess it's too early to speculate about the Twilight Realm...

Originally Posted by jhurvid

ALTTP's Dark World was made with the Triforce. There was transformation there.

Until you got the Moon Pearl, although you could just as easily say that the Master Sword was responsible, because you need not return to the Dark World until after you get both. <_<

FSA's Dark World was made with the Trident. There was no transformation there.

Again, if evil-smiting swords repel the effects of "dark worlds", there would be no transformation (talking about the "Dark World" stage--the Lost Woods).

Originally Posted by LionHarted

Until you got the Moon Pearl, although you could just as easily say that the Master Sword was responsible, because you need not return to the Dark World until after you get both.

I don't understand this. Link took the Moon Pearl and was able to maintain his form in the Dark World. It is possible to enter the Dark World between taking the Moon Pearl and the Master Sword and I think you'll find this to be the case.

Again, if evil-smiting swords repel the effects of "dark worlds", there would be no transformation (talking about the "Dark World" stage--the Lost Woods).

Question. Why was the Four Sword unable to smite Ganon but the Master Sword was in ALTTP? Although it has the power to repel evil, I would be willing to place my bets that the Four Sword isn't as powerful in that respect.

Also, I am interested to know where this "Master Sword repels the Dark World" thesis came from. I've seen the new TP trailer but it never really hinted at this prospect.

Originally Posted by jhurvid

It is possible to enter the Dark World between taking the Moon Pearl and the Master Sword and I think you'll find this to be the case.

It is possible to get to the Spirit Temple as a child without getting the Master Sword and to the Shadow Temple without learning the Nocturne of Shadow. It is possible to get the Tempered Sword without ever getting the Master Sword. I think you'll find that a number of things are possible that would not have happened in the true progression of events.

It is not required to return to the Dark World until Agahnim sends you there. Therefore, it is not canonical that you would return to the Dark World until Agahnim sends you there.

Why was the Four Sword unable to smite Ganon but the Master Sword was in ALTTP?

The Silver Arrows smote Ganon in ALttP.

Also, I am interested to know where this "Master Sword repels the Dark World" thesis came from. I've seen the new TP trailer but it never really hinted at this prospect.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

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You didn't see the haze dissipating? You didn't see Midna beside him, outside the Twilight?

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Originally Posted by LionHarted

It is possible to get to the Spirit Temple as a child without getting the Master Sword and to the Shadow Temple without learning the Nocturne of Shadow. It is possible to get the Tempered Sword without ever getting the Master Sword. I think you'll find that a number of things are possible that would not have happened in the true progression of events.

1) Glitches do not count in storyline progression. Would you like to argue that the Triforce is actually within Hyrule Castle in ALTTP because someone is able to glitch his way into the chamber from there?

2) The Tempered Sword is a gameplay device. The Master Sword is back in it's original form in ALTTP's ending.

It is not required to return to the Dark World until Agahnim sends you there. Therefore, it is not canonical that you would return to the Dark World until Agahnim sends you there.

I disagree. The developers made it so that keeping the Moon Pearl would maintain Link's original form. Even if it is not required to return to the Dark World again, the developers would not make it so that the Moon Pearl keeps Link's form (and they certainly wouldn't write it into the script) if they didn't mean it to be.

The Silver Arrows smote Ganon in ALttP.

But the Silver Arrows couldn't smite Ganon in FSA. Ganon was stunned with the Four Sword and it took a ball of light for the Silver Arrows to seal him away. In ALTTP, Ganon was stunned by the Master Sword and the Silver Arrows were able to defeat him properly. In my opinion, the Sword has a definite effect on the way in which Ganon is made vulnerable to the Silver Arrows. This would suggest that the Four Sword is less powerful than the Master Sword.

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

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You didn't see the haze dissipating? You didn't see Midna beside him, outside the Twilight?

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Alright, that makes sense. Although for the record, we don't actually know if the Twilight Realm is the Dark World in the same sense.