Hero's Shade is NOT OoT/MM Link.

Originally Posted by TDA

Let's recap:

The hero's shade felt regret for not teaching his skills, and for not being a hero, SS Link is a hero in any timeline branch.

He knows the songs the hero of time learned (excluding the baton of gales, but it could've learned it somewhere, it seems to be an ancient song), one of them that could be only learned in Termina (song of healing), SS Link couldn't learn them, because they were composed after the various sanctuaries were built.

Also was left-handed! While SS Link is the only one who isn't.

Is this enough?

But I'm not saying it's SS Link. I'm going with tlozbj's theory that it's ALL of the past Heros. Which includes SS Link, MC Link, FS Link, and the HERO OF TIME!

There's evidence because HoT knew the songs/had feeling of regret. SS Link knew some of the moves. MC Link knew the moves SS Link didn't. FS Link...

Tell me how this doesn't make sense.

Here's another idea that I just had. Is is possible that HS could somehow be an amalgamtion of all the past heroes forming one spirit with the memories and skills of all predecessors? Not saying I believe this, but simply raising the question. I personally think that it's probably the HoT. The only evidence against that HS=HoT is that the moves he teaches you were not seen to be used by the HoT. SS Link would be a second choice.

That's what I was saying. I completely agree.

Originally Posted by tlozbj

What grave?

He saved Hyrule by advising the king what would happen and he had the mark of the triforce. He traveled to time to save Hyrule in the future. I wouldn't think that would be able to be forgotten so easily.

People could think, however, that he was lying, but Ganondorf was really a bad guy.
Also probably it is something that the royal family didn't want the people to know: it would have been king fault if in the future Ganon would've rised.

I checked Zelda wiki, but it seems that isn't sure if the grave is the HoT one, but I remember I've read something in-game, I'm replaying TP right now so if I discover that in Italian translation there was something that heavly implies it, I'll let you know

Originally Posted by The King of Red Lions

But I'm not saying it's SS Link. I'm going with tlozbj's theory that it's ALL of the past Heros. Which includes SS Link, MC Link, FS Link, and the HERO OF TIME!

There's evidence because HoT knew the songs/had feeling of regret. SS Link knew some of the moves. MC Link knew the moves SS Link didn't. FS Link...

Tell me how this doesn't make sense.

Well, that's kind of right: all the heroes share the same spirit so the question now is: have the hero's shade only his memories as the HoT, or also of the other heroes?

The problem is that if he knows his past lifes, he wouldn't have reasons to teach to "the hero chosen by the goddess" (Yep, I prefer using heroes titles instead of calling all them "Link") the skills, because he was recognised as a hero in his past incarnations.

Originally Posted by TDA

People could think, however, that he was lying, but Ganondorf was really a bad guy.
Also probably it is something that the royal family didn't want the people to know: it would have been king fault if in the future Ganon would've rised.

I checked Zelda wiki, but it seems that isn't sure if the grave is the HoT one, but I remember I've read something in-game, I'm replaying TP right now so if I discover that in Italian translation there was something that heavly implies it, I'll let you know



Well, that's kind of right: all the heroes share the same spirit so the question now is: have the hero's shade only his memories as the HoT, or also of the other heroes?

The problem is that if he knows his past lifes, he wouldn't have reasons to teach to "the hero chosen by the goddess" (Yep, I prefer using heroes titles instead of calling all them "Link") the skills, because he was recognised as a hero in his past incarnations.

Well maybe each Hero doesn't have memory of past lives. But after he dies his memories are added to the HS. Does that sound plausible?

Originally Posted by The King of Red Lions

Well maybe each Hero doesn't have memory of past lives. But after he dies his memories are added to the HS. Does that sound plausible?

Yes, Zelda seems to have a reincarnation mechanic similar to the oriental religions, more than the occidental metempsychosis, so more "Links", more "Zeldas" and more "Ganondorf" or anything that is (spoiler SS) an incarnat ion of Demise's hatred, can exist at the same time.

So, we don't know if a "ghost" in Zelda is the sprit himself, or one of his avatar that didn't find peace.

But my point is the same: if the hero's shade knows who he is, he wouldn't have regrets, because he would've remembered what he did and that he have been a hero more than one time, and people remembered him for his actions in past lives.

Yeah it is a tricky concept. But maybe since being the HoT was his last life he would be the most connected to the HoT?

If it were reincarnations of every past hero, the Hero's Shade would feel no regret because SS, MC, and FS Links (Including the hero between MC and FS) were very highly regarded as heroes in their times.

Plus, how do we know that the Hero of Time didn't learn these skills himself after the events of Majora's Mask. Yet another unknown aspect of the Zelda series. In-game he did not. But he lived a lot of life after Majora's Mask, as he was quite young in Majora's Mask.

Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind

If it were reincarnations of every past hero, the Hero's Shade would feel no regret because SS, MC, and FS Links (Including the hero between MC and FS) were very highly regarded as heroes in their times.

Plus, how do we know that the Hero of Time didn't learn these skills himself after the events of Majora's Mask. Yet another unknown aspect of the Zelda series. In-game he did not. But he lived a lot of life after Majora's Mask, as he was quite young in Majora's Mask.

Just because they're heroes, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't feel regret. They could feel as empty as a $100 bottle.

Originally Posted by tlozbj

1. There are many left handed people

2.The MM opening lines seem to disagree.

3. If I am not wrong a WW song also appaered. So that means he is the hero of the winds. If we use the songs as evidence.

1. True, but Hero's Shade was obviously a hero before. The only known left-handed hero in Hyrule is Link. It had to be OoT Link, seeing as how SS Link is right-handed and MC Link is... well I mean, there's not really anything suggesting that it's him, sooo...

2. That's to the player. You know, kinda like how when you're reading a book, and it's telling the story in third person. Meaning you know what each character is feeling and their backstory.

3. That's true that he knows a TWW song, as well as a song that's not from either OoT, MM, or TWW.

Who knows, maybe that TWW song he knew was known during his time period, seeing as how OoT is a prequel to TWW.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

Well, to play devil's advocate here, the only reason he appeared before TP Link was because TP Link found and used the Howling Stones. If TP Link hadn't found and used the Howling Stones, the Hero's Shade never would have showed up to help him (excluding that first move that he teaches you without the aid of the Howling Stones; maybe the fact that TP Link is able to transform into a wolf and therefore use the Howling Stones, he showed up to him for that first one).

Not necessarily. Since the Hero's Shade in his wolf form appeared to TP Link, with no forewarning and no Howling Stone, while you're on your way to the Forest Temple, then HS never showing up to help if TP Link never used a Howling Stone is not only false, but suggests that HS went out of his way to look for TP Link.

It's actually because of that scene that I assumed the Howling Stones were there if you needed additional training and wanted to know more about the HS, because that first scene is also the one where he teaches you the only required move: the Ending Blow. You can skip the rest. *thinks* ... Which means you can take the Howling Stones out completely and have the overall interaction/relation between HS and TP Link unchanged save for some missing dialogue.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

So if the Hero's Shade isn't OoT Link, maybe that hero only showed up to TP Link because TP Link is the only wolf-hero and the only hero to find and use the Howling Stones.

Which would mean the HS is a Hero as of yet unseen in a Zelda game (he couldn't be All Heroes because why would who he could talk to be affected by a singular hero or Magical Goddess Voodoo? that's silly and contrived) which is really unlikely. More unlikely than All Heroes or the Hero of Time.

...

Although I wouldn't mind a future installment featuring the Hero of Wolves. It's great headcanon material.

Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi

Or it could be that he felt there was no point in teaching someone if they weren't going to be a Hero and use his knowledge.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, considering MC, FS, and OoT/MM Link were not only all Heroes, but probably would have used that knowledge and used it well. I mean if the Hero's Shade knows what fate lies in store for TP Link, he should know the fate of all future-heroes. Again, unless HS is the HoT, because the only hero after him, that we know of, is TP Link.

Plus when we first meet him he thinks TP Link is a sack of ♥♥♥♥. XD So aside from the whole "it's faaaaaaaaate" excuse, he doesn't seem to think TP Link is going to be a Hero or be able to use his knowledge.

Originally Posted by Topaz Mutiny

Which would mean the HS is a Hero as of yet unseen in a Zelda game (he couldn't be All Heroes because why would who he could talk to be affected by a singular hero or Magical Goddess Voodoo? that's silly and contrived) which is really unlikely. More unlikely than All Heroes or the Hero of Time.

I understand thinking it's unlikely, but more unlikely than the All Heroes theory? FS and TMC have made it very clear that there's more than one unnamed hero throughout the series that haven't had their own game. (SS debatably makes this point as well.) And as already stated (I think in this thread; possibly in another thread on the first page), TP tells us about a few things that an unnamed hero did that doesn't fit any of the past heroes we've seen.

So either this unnamed hero is a past hero that we're familiar with who went and did these things after his game concluded (assuming he had a game), or this unnamed hero is a hero that we aren't familiar with. It seems more likely to me that the HS would fit this latter scenario than being an amalgam of all heroes.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

I understand thinking it's unlikely, but more unlikely than the All Heroes theory? FS and TMC have made it very clear that there's more than one unnamed hero throughout the series that haven't had their own game. (SS debatably makes this point as well.) And as already stated (I think in this thread; possibly in another thread on the first page), TP tells us about a few things that an unnamed hero did that doesn't fit any of the past heroes we've seen.

I was saying it was more unlikely than either of the other choices based upon the context given, which was you saying this Mystery Hero only showed up because of a huge coincidental shared affinity between the two heroes. That huge coincidence is what makes it unlikely. Like I said, it's great Alternate Universe material, but there's essentially nothing substantial supporting it.

If you remove that and just have "what if it was a hero we didn't know about," then the likelyhood of that does increase dramatically.

... I may have not played TP in a while, but I still don't recall hearing about events that none of the other Heroes could have done. Let alone stuff affiliated with the Hero's Shade (which is... nothing).

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

So either this unnamed hero is a past hero that we're familiar with who went and did these things after his game concluded (assuming he had a game),

Essentially, OoT/MM Link. Because we also know he grows up and has kids with someone (TP Link being a direct descendent of his) so there's a huge window of time for him to go do more stuff aside from having boned someone.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

or this unnamed hero is a hero that we aren't familiar with. It seems more likely to me that the HS would fit this latter scenario than being an amalgam of all heroes.

It just seems less likely for me because it's a more complicated answer.

I don't think it's that much more complicated. Either the Hero of Time went on to do some things that were somewhat uncharacteristic of himself that weren't recorded, or there was some other hero within the 100+ years between OoT and TP did that things that were characteristic of him.

Both of those are "complicated". But neither much more so than the other. Each assumes exactly one thing that is uncorroborated and different from what the other theory holds. I could see it going either way if we were discussing in-game evidence alone; only HH has me siding with the Hero of Time theory.

Originally Posted by Topaz Mutiny

... I may have not played TP in a while, but I still don't recall hearing about events that none of the other Heroes could have done. Let alone stuff affiliated with the Hero's Shade (which is... nothing).

Could have, or would? Because even playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't say that the Hero of Time couldn't have done the things associated with the unknown hero that are uncharacteristic of/could very easily not have been the Hero of Time.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

I don't think it's that much more complicated. Either the Hero of Time went on to do some things that were somewhat uncharacteristic of himself that weren't recorded, or there was some other hero within the 100+ years between OoT and TP did that things that were characteristic of him.

Both of those are "complicated". But neither much more so than the other. Each assumes exactly one thing that is uncorroborated and different from what the other theory holds. I could see it going either way if we were discussing in-game evidence alone; only HH has me siding with the Hero of Time theory.

OoT Link is inherently (a tiny bit) less complicated due to the fact that he simply already exists, but I see your point.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

Could have, or would? Because even playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't say that the Hero of Time couldn't have done the things associated with the unknown hero that are uncharacteristic of/could very easily not have been the Hero of Time.

... Wait, what? I wanted you to jog my memory, not putz about with semantics!

the heros shade is not even a stalfos..its his morbid decayed body

Originally Posted by Topaz Mutiny

... Wait, what? I wanted you to jog my memory, not putz about with semantics!

The way you were talking, I thought you already knew what I was talking about, especially since I've already mentioned one example in this thread. We are told in TP that a hero of old left the Hero's Bow in the Goron Mine. (It might also be worth noting that the Gorons also say that this Hero's Bow was once used to defeat "the most powerful evils this world has ever known", which suggests it participated in an event that was pretty significant but unrecorded since that doesn't really match any of the pre-TP games we've seen. Also, every time we get a reference to the hero who owned the bow, they always refer to him as "a" hero of old/from the past/whatever, rather than "the" ancient hero as we hear about in almost every other hero reference.)

There's also the hero that Rutela's husband created clothes for before he died, so unless the Hero of Time lived to be REALLY old, or OoT's King Zora lived to be REALLY old and married a much younger woman and had Prince Ralis with her just shortly before his death, then the Zora Armor must have been given to a hero other than the Hero of Time. Either way, whatever old hero once wore the Zora Armor did things to have the Zora pass down legends about him.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

There's also the hero that Rutela's husband created clothes for before he died, so unless the Hero of Time lived to be REALLY old, or OoT's King Zora lived to be REALLY old and married a much younger woman and had Prince Ralis with her just shortly before his death, then the Zora Armor must have been given to a hero other than the Hero of Time. Either way, whatever old hero once wore the Zora Armor did things to have the Zora pass down legends about him.

Couldn't King Zora having died while the HoT was still young, and the next king create the suit for him?

^I don't think so, because Rutela specifically said that it was her husband who had died that had created the suit for the hero, and Rutela was alive 100+ years after the events of OoT.

So that would mean that King Zora could have married Rutela and gotten her pregnant with Ralis (or fertilized her Ralis egg as may be the case with Zora reproduction) and then given the Hero of Time the suit, and then died, but that would still require Rutela and Ralis to be over 100 years old as of TP (and Rutela was alive at the beginning of TP) despite both of them looking rather young.

Originally Posted by Volvagia_slayer

The way you were talking, I thought you already knew what I was talking about, especially since I've already mentioned one example in this thread. We are told in TP that a hero of old left the Hero's Bow in the Goron Mine. (It might also be worth noting that the Gorons also say that this Hero's Bow was once used to defeat "the most powerful evils this world has ever known", which suggests it participated in an event that was pretty significant but unrecorded since that doesn't really match any of the pre-TP games we've seen. Also, every time we get a reference to the hero who owned the bow, they always refer to him as "a" hero of old/from the past/whatever, rather than "the" ancient hero as we hear about in almost every other hero reference.)

There's also the hero that Rutela's husband created clothes for before he died, so unless the Hero of Time lived to be REALLY old, or OoT's King Zora lived to be REALLY old and married a much younger woman and had Prince Ralis with her just shortly before his death, then the Zora Armor must have been given to a hero other than the Hero of Time. Either way, whatever old hero once wore the Zora Armor did things to have the Zora pass down legends about him.

Didn't child link save both the gorons and the zoras before going into the future. Both would reconize him as a hero but not on the scale of The Hero OF Time. Ruto could have told her tadpoles about some old hero and they would want to help.