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Old 06-11-2012, 03:59 PM
Blak Blak is a male United States Blak is offline
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Of Demon Kings.

Okay, in the Zelda series we have two 'Demon Kings', Demise and Malladus. Both are addressed as 'Demon King', both have a somewhat unusual sidekick (a camp* elf and a ginger leprechaun), and neither mention or even allude to the other on any level.

So my question is this; what is the relationship between the two? Are they the same demon? Brothers? What? And how does Majora fit into this?

My personal theory, the one I write with, is that the two are brothers, both children (well, spawn) of a greater, even more powerful demon. I call him Kao, because I can. The reason neither king mentions the other s because they hate each other dearly. Majora is a demon prince- the spawn of the both of them.

*Ghirahim is camp. He may not be gay, but he is certainly camp. Not all camp people are homosexual, and vice-versa, but all camp people are camp. I'd appreciate it if we didn't argue this subject.

Also, I will personally kill anyone who turns this into a Spirit Tracks/ Skyward Sword flaming thread.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:11 PM
GoldenNocturne GoldenNocturne is a female GoldenNocturne is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Er, is there any foundation for all this speculation?

I think the most I can agree to is that maybe Malladus is another incarnation of Demise's curse, now that Ganondorf is gone in that timeline. Spirit Tracks is one of the few Zelda games I haven't played, so I can't really say much on it. But I think that most of the stuff suggested in this thread is crackpot and kinda unlikely. Or at the very least, connecting Majora to it is very unlikely. Malladus and Demise may have some sort of connection, but brothers? Ehh, I dunno.

Also, if this is what you meant as a reasoning behind why you think Snowpeak is related to New Hyrule, I don't really see how this makes any connection there either.
Last Edited by GoldenNocturne; 06-11-2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:12 PM
FoxHound FoxHound is a male Flanders FoxHound is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

My view on this is that Malladus is probably an incarnation of Demise:

warning:Skyward Sword spoiler
Spoiler:  

When Demise is killed at the end of SS, he curses the lineages of Link and Zelda to be opposed by his own lineage. We can all assume that Gannon(dorf) was one of Demises incarnations.


When Gannondorf was killed at the end ow the Wind Waker, Demise could take a new form and I think Malladus is this new form.

A lot of time passes between TWW and Spirit Tracks, giving Demise enough time to reincarnate, do some mischief and be banned again before ST starts.

Majora, as far as we know, only existed in the parallel dimension of Termina and is therefore not included in this story.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Blak Blak is a male United States Blak is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenNocturne View Post
Er, is there any foundation for all this speculation?

I think the most I can agree to is that maybe Malladus is another incarnation of Demise's curse, now that Ganondorf is gone in that timeline. Spirit Tracks is one of the few Zelda games I haven't played, so I can't really say much on it. But I think that most of the stuff suggested in this thread is crackpot and kinda unlikely.

Also, if this is what you meant as a reasoning behind why you think Snowpeak is related to New Hyrule, I don't really see how this makes any connection there either.
I agree it's mostly unfounded. That's why I was asking for better theories than my own, not to debate mine.

Also, this has nothing to do with the location of New Hyrule. That's just basic geography.
Last Edited by Blak; 06-11-2012 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:15 PM
GoldenNocturne GoldenNocturne is a female GoldenNocturne is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Blak View Post
I agree it's mostly unfounded. at's why I was asking for better theories than my own, not to debate mine.

Also, this has nothing to do with the location of New Hyrule. That's just basic geography.
Well I did give my theory, that Malladus is related to Demise's curse. I'm not really trying to debate your theory, since it's obviously just your personal idea, but I was wondering if you used anything to come to that conclusion aside from them both being demon kings.

And I thought this might be related to what you just said in that other thread, that's all.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:16 PM
tlozbj tlozbj is a male Puerto Rico tlozbj is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Malladus was just another incarnation of demise. He is known as the demon king because he was the most powerful demon of the time thats how demons decide their royalty by power and Cole is just a chancelor for the demonic royal family. Been one of Demise reincarnations it was picked as the new demon king.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Claus Claus is a male Claus is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Wait... Majora, the spawn of both of them?

o.o


But uh, this is a very good question. Considering that they seemed to take special precaution in designing Malladus in a way that, at the time of ST's release (2009), alluded back to Ganon (beastly, two horns, red flowing hair/beard), who now after Skyward Sword alludes back to Demise, I think we can say they are connected.

But then Malladus was involved on some big war with the light spirits and sealed on a land totally different from the one Demise/Ganon frolic upon. So, I dunno.

Maybe sometime after SS he broke free from... whatever, and flew off to New Hyrule, and did his business, got sealed, and, uh... reincarnated as Ganondorf while his demon form was sealed in New Hyrule?

Yeah, as much as I'd like it to, Demise = Malladus doesn't really work. But I'd be willing to bet that the developers want us to think that Demise = Malladus. It's probably just one of the many things about the different backstories in the series that don't quite match up, given its "legend" nature and development process.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Blak Blak is a male United States Blak is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJFoxHound16 View Post
My view on this is that Malladus is probably an incarnation of Demise:

warning:Skyward Sword spoiler
Spoiler:  

When Demise is killed at the end of SS, he curses the lineages of Link and Zelda to be opposed by his own lineage. We can all assume that Gannon(dorf) was one of Demises incarnations.


When Gannondorf was killed at the end ow the Wind Waker, Demise could take a new form and I think Malladus is this new form.

A lot of time passes between TWW and Spirit Tracks, giving Demise enough time to reincarnate, do some mischief and be banned again before ST starts.

Majora, as far as we know, only existed in the parallel dimension of Termina and is therefore not included in this story.
Is Demise's curse a physical thing, like a reincarnation? Or is it just a concept, basically meaning that whenever everything's going fine, SOMETHING will step up to be douchebag of the week?

Also, just to clarify on the New Hyrule geography- before OOT and all throughout the CT and AT, the New Hyrule area is a plateau in a large mountain range a good distance to the north.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:25 PM
Fal'Cie Fal'Cie is a male United Kingdom Fal'Cie is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Demise-'This eternal being has conquered time itself. It is the source of all monsters.' according to Fi. I think we can take this to mean that it is responsible for all the evil in the world and is more akin to a force of nature.
As Malladus is not given this sort of magnitude of importance I think Malladus is merely another of its spawn. Albeit one that was recognized as a king because of his power. The best successor to Demise that could be found among demons.

As for Majora I can't be sure. Termina was apparently the result an accidental leak of the Goddesses power. Perhaps in the same way Demise leaked part of his power into another world which became harnessed as a cursing artifact.
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:29 PM
FoxHound FoxHound is a male Flanders FoxHound is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Blak View Post
Is Demise's curse a physical thing, like a reincarnation? Or is it just a concept, basically meaning that whenever everything's going fine, SOMETHING will step up to be douchebag of the week?

Also, just to clarify on the New Hyrule geography- before OOT and all throughout the CT and AT, the New Hyrule area is a plateau in a large mountain range a good distance to the north.
He litterally sais:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demise
My hate..never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end!

I will rise again!
...

An incarnation of my hatred shal ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea for all time!.
So we can assume that he, or at least his hatefull spirit gets reincarnated
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Last Edited by FoxHound; 06-11-2012 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 06-11-2012, 04:32 PM
Blak Blak is a male United States Blak is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJFoxHound16 View Post
He litterally sais:


So we can assume that he, or at least his hatefull spirit gets reincarnated.
So it's literally a physical incarnation... Hmm.

Anyway, whilst my idea may be hairbrained, is there anything actively wrong with it?
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:04 PM
GoldenNocturne GoldenNocturne is a female GoldenNocturne is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Tech View Post
Termina was apparently the result an accidental leak of the Goddesses power. Perhaps in the same way Demise leaked part of his power into another world which became harnessed as a cursing artifact.
Is there a source for this to be taken as fact? I've not heard any canon explanation for Termina's existence before.



As for Demise's curse, I took it to mean that his hatred becomes incarnated itself into a person/demon, not that it's literally Demise reincarnated. Him saying "I will rise again" doesn't necessarily mean that his curse is himself reincarnating. After all, he was sealed in the Master Sword, not killed. And while they do say that he will eventually dissipate within the sword... well, I certainly doubt we've seen the last of Demise in a physical sense as well. His curse follows Link and Zelda and incarnates his hatred towards them, so I don't think it's dependent on his death/reincarnation.
Last Edited by GoldenNocturne; 06-11-2012 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:00 PM
StinksAwakening United States StinksAwakening is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

This is just solely my opinion, but I consider the true enemy in the Zelda series to be a literal personification of evil itself, that for the sake of this post will call "Mr. Evil" (don't make fun of the name!). Mr. Evil has a hatred that manifests itself in the form of a Demon King. This Demon King has the power to create other demons(in other words monsters) that exist for no other reason to spread their malice and to terrorize and inflict pain upon the people of the land.

Demise was only the first manifestation of Mr. Evil's hatred. He is not the origin of evil, but a product of evil. Judging by the way Demise speaks of his hatred, I'd say that he is not even in control of it. It just... exists. It's always been there, and always will. It always reincarnates in a never ending cycle because of it's nature, not because of Demise's curse.

In regards to Malladus, he is simply another manifestation of Mr. Evil's hatred. He exists because Mr. Evil hates the appropriately-named Spirits of Good. He was a Demon King that was birthed for no other purpose than to terrorize the people of New Hyrule.

With a name like "Mr. Evil", it seems like something straight out of a crappy fanfic, but I assure you that it's just a name; albeit a silly one. The real enemy is evil itself, which the Master Sword was created specifically for--it's the blade of Evil's Bane, after all.
Last Edited by StinksAwakening; 06-11-2012 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:06 PM
TheCheshireCat TheCheshireCat is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

I don't think Malladus and Demise have anything to do with each other, partly because of how totally different they look physically, but mainly because the title Demon King is something they could have given to themselves; nothing in the series besides a self-proclaimed title or two gives any hints to demons having their own government. And seeing as most demons are very self-centered and vain, it seems fitting that they would call themselves King or Lord.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:11 PM
GoldenNocturne GoldenNocturne is a female GoldenNocturne is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

It's true that there is nothing solid to connect the two, and the simple title of Demon Lord is something anyone can take on. However it's also worth mentioning that Demise is implied to appear differently depending on who is looking at him. It's also possible that Malladus isn't Demise himself, but simply born of the same curse that gave rise to Ganondorf. It's worth thinking about at least.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:02 AM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
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Re: Of Demon Kings.

I always felt that Malladus was an eldritch invader like Bellum, who conquered his own reality and decided to invade the Light World. Whether or not that means he has a connection to Demise depends on whether you believe that beings like him and Hylia have jurisdiction, so to speak, in multiple realities.
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