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Old 04-23-2012, 01:17 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

It has occurred to me and my friends that New Hyrule is probably on one of the only lands left on the surface of the TLOZ planet.

How so?
Well, assuming that TLOZ is set on a spherical world (and most fantasy games/series these days are), the great flood would have affected everywhere at the same time, dooming even those who had never even HEARD of Hyrule, Link, or Ganondorf to a watery grave (unles they had a handy mountain). This would also mean that only the highest of mountainous region could support a kingdom after the flood. These regions would be comparatively rare (after all, of Death Mountain's chain only, presumably, the titular volcano itself remains to form Dragon Roost Island). This in turn would mean that there were few other, if ANY other kingdoms left.

What is the significance of this?
Firstly, it means that Malladus' victory would cause the deaths of almost every remaining sentient creature on the TLOZ planet, making the game suddenly seem much more significant (this is no longer about a kingdom, this is about your species ).
Secondly it tells us that either the goddesses are incredibly cruel, or that Ganon's victory would have basically destroyed the world, or that (Old) Hyrule was literally almost all of the world.

What do you think? Am I right? Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?
Last Edited by Blak; 04-26-2012 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Making the distinction between versions of Hyrule Reply With Quote
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:40 PM
OcarinaofKeith OcarinaofKeith is a male United States OcarinaofKeith is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

I think you are right which is why they stopped at spirit tracks...i doubt they'l return to that timeline.. that was my least favorite timeline cause i see that one as DEPRESSING as hell lol... I dont think youre barking up the wrong tree
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:23 PM
Temple of Time Guardian Temple of Time Guardian is a male Canada Temple of Time Guardian is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

There is one thing that bothers me. In Pre-flood days New Hyrule would have been a continent-sized mountain almost as tall as Everest. See the issue there? And really, where did all that water come from?

Personally, I think it was more likely that Hyrule was actually sunken. Instead of the water going up, Hyrule went down.

Although finding a new kingdom was wish a on the triforce... New Hyrule may have then magically been created...
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OcarinaofKeith View Post
I think you are right which is why they stopped at spirit tracks...i doubt they'l return to that timeline.. that was my least favorite timeline cause i see that one as DEPRESSING as hell lol... I dont think youre barking up the wrong tree
Thank you, OoK. Good to see I'm not totally wrong.

No more games in that timeline would be OK for me, all my fanfics revolve around it .

Edit: thought I'd address ToTG's point, seeing as we posted at the same time.

Good idea. I've never thought about it like that. However, then you have to face the fact that the great see is apparently much larger than Old Hyrule (it stretches out beyond view in every direction, AND presumably abuts the bottom of New Hyrule) and that, if that were true, it would be very easy to find a new land. Not saying you're wrong though.
Last Edited by Blak; 04-23-2012 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Jin Jin is a male United States Jin is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

There does not seem to be much of a mention of any floods in the history of the land in ST. It seems that region was mostly spared from the great flood. I might be possible that the only region that was flooded was the countryside of Hyrule and the immediate surrounding areas. Hyrule is generally not that large a place in most appearances and often exists in a valley between mountains. Sometimes it seems to be around a few miles wide at best. In other cases much larger but still not quite on the same level as most European nations. It only really contains a couple villages and a single small cave village for another tribe or so. Having the flood cover up much of the planet instead of just the country that contained Ganondorf is a bit drastic on part of the powers that be in that universe. It is very possible that there are many places all around the world that are almost totally untouched by the effects of the flood.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Yet another reply! In how long exactly? I'm not editing that post again...


Hmmmm... I seems that most of your point were addressed in the last post, Jin.
As for the fact that ST has no history of a flood, it was aways y belief that i was set on what used to be (as ToTG said just now), a formally incredibly tall mountain range.
And yes, the Goddese's actions may seem drastic, but as we know the Triforce has almost UNLIMITED POWER (put in caps 'cos it's a meme ), and perhaps that was better than letting Ganon take the world.
Last Edited by Blak; 04-23-2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:45 PM
Temple of Time Guardian Temple of Time Guardian is a male Canada Temple of Time Guardian is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

All of the world would be flooded if Hyrule was. If the ocean level rose thousands of feet in one part of the world, it would do the sane globally.

Maybe it is possible the troforce created the land. Only the spirits inhabited it pre-ST. And creating a continent is probably nothing for the triforce.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:57 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple of Time Guardian View Post
All of the world would be flooded if Hyrule was. If the ocean level rose thousands of feet in one part of the world, it would do the sane globally.

Maybe it is possible the troforce created the land. Only the spirits inhabited it pre-ST. And creating a continent is probably nothing for the triforce.
The problem there is that, AFAIK, Malladus was sealed by the spirits BEFORE the arrival of humans etc., along with all the ancient-ish structures (although these could have been created LOOKING ancient-ish).

If that is true, then we have one of two options:

1- the triforce created a whole history for the continent, bending the past to suit its/its wielder's will. This is likely beyond the powers of even the triforce, and, even if it is not, it would be unlikely to do above and beyond he strictures of the wish, otherwise (SS spoiler) Demise would have been eliminated in the past, too.

2- the events of Malladus' attack happened in the time between WW ad ST. The likelihood of this ranges from very, very implausible, to impossible if it is expressly said that the battle took more than a hundred years.


Please don't feel I'm dismissing your ideas, I just want to get to the bottom of this seemingly (intentionally?) dark, OOC period for Zelda in general, and Celda in particular.

(Actually, the WW team may just have been a bit of a dark one. I mean, we stabbed Ganon through the head, after all.)
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:38 PM
Samu Samu is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

There are actually two posible ways to flood an entire kingdom with sea waters.
1) The way you (Mister Blak) described.
2) Sinking the land of the knigdom below sea level while leaving the rest of the lands relatively intact. (atlantis style).
3) The land was already below sea level, but not flooded. Then sea water enters like in the Black Sea deluge hypothesis.

You already described the probable effects of the first method.
The second method would cause massive tsunamis around the world, devastating the coasts, but leaving large continents mostly intact.
The third option, would almost only affect hyrule and nobody else.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:40 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samu View Post
There are actually two posible ways to flood an entire kingdom with sea waters.
1) The way you (Mister Blak) described.
2) Sinking the land of the knigdom below sea level while leaving the rest of the lands relatively intact. (atlantis style).
3) The land was already below sea level, but not flooded. Then sea water enters like in the Black Sea deluge hypothesis.

You already described the probable effects of the first method.
The second method would cause massive tsunamis around the world, devastating the coasts, but leaving large continents mostly intact.
The third option, would almost only affect hyrule and nobody else.
The second option I think is unlikely at best, given my earlier point n the comparative sizes of the great sea and Hyrule.


The third is a nice option, not least because the people of Labrynna etc don't all die. Therefore, it is probably the closest to the developer's intention (if they thought about it this much).


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fanatic of Zelda
You were saying...
Care to elaborate at all here?
Last Edited by Blak; 04-23-2012 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:45 PM
Sliske Sliske is a male United States Sliske is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

I think even if the lands of Hlodrum and Labrynna were flooded, as long as the Maku Tree(s) were saved, they would start to rebuild the continents just like the Great Deku Tree does in TWW.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:45 PM
kymeric kymeric is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Assuming the extra weight pushing down on a continental plate dosent cause a bulging elsewhere. What goes down must come up?
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Plate tectonics. Two or more pieces of the crust smash together, creating an enormous (and towering!) mountain range. Instant landmass.*

*Yes, I am well aware that plate tectonics don't work that way in reality. But in reality, the amount of rain needed to completely flood the planet would release so much energy (both as heat from the condensation of water into rain and the kinetic energy of rain impacting the surface) that it would kill everything anyway.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kymeric View Post
Assuming the extra weight pushing down on a continental plate dosent cause a bulging elsewhere. What goes down must come up?
That's not how continents work, guy. It'd just force some of the plate deeper into the mantle and melt.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:27 PM
Fal'Cie Fal'Cie is a male United Kingdom Fal'Cie is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Samu's second theory is one I've been thinking of for a while now, makes a lot more sense than drowning the whole world. Glad to see I'm not alone!
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:36 PM
Labrynian Rebel Labrynian Rebel is a male United States Labrynian Rebel is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Reason why it's my favorite timeline, it's the only one where a world-changing event occurred that wasn't undone by Link winning. In fact I think a post-ST game has the most freedom and plot potential then any other possibility.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:15 AM
Temple of Time Guardian Temple of Time Guardian is a male Canada Temple of Time Guardian is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

DT has a lot of post-AoL potential. With the triforce recompleted, Hyrule probably rejoined and exceeded the size of AoL. Unless a new enemy rose.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:32 AM
ich Will Swedish Empire ich Will is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Blak View Post
What is the significance of this?
Firstly, it means that Malladus' victory would cause the deaths of almost every remaining sentient creature on the TLOZ planet, making the game suddenly seem much more significant (this is no longer about a kingdom, this is about your species ).
Secondly it tells us that either the goddesses are incredibly cruel, or that Ganon's victory would have basically destroyed the world, or that (Old) Hyrule was literally almost all of the world.

What do you think? Am I right? Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?
What's interesting about this is that Nintendo could have made us very well aware of it in the game, so that we truly DO feel that we are saving the world and not just some island with a kingdom of choo-choo trains. I wish they would emphasize this kind of stuff so you don't just feel that you've gotta beat this monster 'cause he's damn ugly and generally menacing, but actually because he is going to devour the planet.
Last Edited by ich Will; 04-26-2012 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillZ4E View Post
What's interesting about this is that Nintendo could have made us very well aware of it in the game, so that we truly DO feel that we are saving the world and not just some island with a kingdom of choo-choo trains. I wish they would emphasize this kind of stuff so you don't just feel that you've gotta beat this monster 'cause he's damn ugly and generally menacing, but actually because he is going to devour the planet.
I've had a long think about this, and I have to say that I don't think that the whole "killing the world" thing was intentional. It would have made the story so much darker than the art style would suggest, and make everything so much better through its significance, making too much of a change to just be left out in the telling.
It is my sound belief now that Nintendo has no idea what has happened to the world.

This of course mean that, no matter how much we try to theorise, we will never come up with the correct answer because there isn't one.

...
Unless somebody knows something that I don't on this subject...
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:18 PM
Sliske Sliske is a male United States Sliske is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Blak View Post
I've had a long think about this, and I have to say that I don't think that the whole "killing the world" thing was intentional. It would have made the story so much darker than the art style would suggest, and make everything so much better through its significance, making too much of a change to just be left out in the telling.
It is my sound belief now that Nintendo has no idea what has happened to the world.

This of course mean that, no matter how much we try to theorise, we will never come up with the correct answer because there isn't one.

...
Unless somebody knows something that I don't on this subject...


Once again, restating...

"If the lands of Hlodrum and Labrynna were flooded, as long as the Maku Tree(s) were saved, they would start to rebuild the continents just like the Great Deku Tree does in TWW."

This is the most logical answer. And if they used this theory to answer what happened to the lands of Holdrum and Labrynna, then they could easily remap the geography (since it would basically be reborn anyway).

It would be a perfect way to go further in the AT.

"The kingdom of New Hyrule has long been at peace, unlike it's neighbors in the Kingdoms of H and L. In H, there is an evil dictator that took over after the destruction of their original land. And in L, a new evil is rising."

Heck, it could even be the equivalent to Oracle of Ages and Seasons form the Decline Timeline. Meaning, there could be two games that have a joint ending? Apocalyptic Seasons and Ages of Armageddon?
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:15 PM
Blak Blak is a male North Korea Blak is offline
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Re: The world is not enough, because most of it's underwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFeelGood666 View Post
Apocalyptic Seasons and Ages of Armageddon?
GIVE ME THOSE GAMES NOW!!!
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