Calendar Awards Forum Leaders List Members List FAQ
Advertisement

Reply
$ LinkBack Thread Tools
 
  #121 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-22-2012, 08:29 AM
Devoid Devoid is a male United States Devoid is offline
Only during the darkest of times can one light shine the brightest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Between two worlds, seeking trut
View Posts: 343
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
No, because I find that conclusion ridiculous. The only reason it would even be necessary to maintain Light World physics over Twilight physics is because Light World creatures don't like Twilight physics. As such, the only reason for kami to be in the middle of nowhere is on the off chance that some Light World creature will find its way into a particular patch of ocean. The simpler explanation is that there are no be kami stuck in the middle of nowhere, because they don't need to be since Light World physics require no maintenance. Ergo, Twilight physics in TP was Zant's doing and not a natural phenomenon.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ANYONE MEETS THEM!!! Their purpose is to maintain the balance that the interlopers interrupted.

Plus, who says that the Light spirits aren't under the water? Being magical spirits, I'm sure they have no necessity to breathe.

Quote:
Ignoring that proto-Twili getting sealed = Twilight physics overwriting Light World physics is a massive leap in logic which you haven't justified at all, the implication is that the kami were blithering idiots and gave themselves more work to do. That's not very verisimilar, sorry.
No they didn't. The light spirits HAD to seal the Dark interlopers in the Mirror of twilight because they couldn't personally destroy them. And it makes better sense than your argument, or else the light spirits had no reason to exist before TP.

Quote:
The kami weren't responsible for Ganondorf, guy. That was all on the Sages. Who were also apparently blithering idiots, but that's neither here nor there.
Duh! I'm only comparing it to the Ganondorf fiasco, it's you who wants to automatically tie the light spirits to Ganondorf!

Quote:
Besides, Lanayru had absolutely no problem trying to blast Zant with its divine power, and did end up blasting Midna. If not for Zelda's intervention, Midna would have died. Why didn't they just do the same way back when? They had already defeated the shadow magic of the proto-Twili, or Midna wouldn't have said that her ancestors got chased around Hyrule before being banished.
Um. Zant had a different power, which Lanayru probably didn't know much about. Midna had just gotten three out of the four pieces of the Fused Shadow taken by Zant (why he didn't take the fourth one, I don't know...). Lanayru tried to, at least, injure Zant, but Zant used Midna as a human (twili) shield.

Quote:
If this is in regards to the Silent Realms, Fi says that they were specifically created to test the Hero, and the only way to even access them is with the Goddess/Master Sword. Since the Hero was the only one who could even draw the sword, how else is anyone going to get in? And the only animate objects we see in them are the phantoms presumably placed there by Hylia.
So called "Facts" spoken by characters have been proven wrong before. Look at the opening sequence to ALttp. It says that the six sages were human in race, though they obviously can't be per the story in OoT.

Quote:
Yes, and then they built houses there, because it was as good a place to build as any. First rule of survival is to not expend energy frivolously. If the area around the portal was relatively free of monsters, there's no reason to go anywhere else.
It is never proven that the inhabitants found the area THEN created buildings.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #122 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-22-2012, 01:11 PM
Rakshael Rakshael is a male United States Rakshael is online now
Hyper Light...
Send a message via AIM to Rakshael Send a message via Skype™ to Rakshael
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Yaevin
View Posts: 2,742
Re: Alternate realms

I thought the whole point of the Twilight Invasion was Zant using his power to change Hyrule into Twilight. I mean, that was pretty obvious in the game. If Twilight was the "natural state" of Hyrule, then why in the world isn't it that way in any other game where the light spirits aren't present? They don't exist in the Decline Timeline, period.

Your argument holds no water, because it uses illogical leaps in thought and makes an enormous amount of assumptions. Just because invisible, ethereal kami are not directly stated against in-game or in Hyrule Historia doesn't rule out common sense.

Lastly: the definition of invasion is the attacking of something of another's ownership by a foreign or alien entity. Twilight Invasion, by definition, directly implies that Hyrule is beseiged by foreign or alien (otherworldy) forces not naturally occurring in the area. I suppose if one desired to lawyer his way through shallow wording loopholes, he could come up with a very frail argument for naturally occurring Twilight, but it's obviously not what the creators were thinking when they made it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
1 person liked this post: SkullDude
  #123 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-23-2012, 12:35 AM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
made of star stuff
Send a message via AIM to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Yahoo to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Skype™ to Jedi Master Sagan
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Francsico
View Posts: 2,873
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ANYONE MEETS THEM!!! Their purpose is to maintain the balance that the interlopers interrupted.

Plus, who says that the Light spirits aren't under the water? Being magical spirits, I'm sure they have no necessity to breathe.
Prove it.

Quote:
No they didn't. The light spirits HAD to seal the Dark interlopers in the Mirror of twilight because they couldn't personally destroy them. And it makes better sense than your argument, or else the light spirits had no reason to exist before TP.
Prove it. The kami must have been able to overcome the proto-Twili, or else they never would have managed to strip them of their shadow magic and banish them to begin with. So why didn't they just kill the proto-Twili when they were at their mercy?

Plus, you still haven't explained how sealing the proto-Twili could possibly result in Twilight Realm overflowing into the Light World!

Quote:
Duh! I'm only comparing it to the Ganondorf fiasco, it's you who wants to automatically tie the light spirits to Ganondorf!
Because the context of the discussion is the kami! Bringing up the Sages is a red herring, because the Sages are vastly weaker than the kami, while at the same time Ganondorf claims to be more powerful than the Twili.

Quote:
Um. Zant had a different power, which Lanayru probably didn't know much about. Midna had just gotten three out of the four pieces of the Fused Shadow taken by Zant (why he didn't take the fourth one, I don't know...). Lanayru tried to, at least, injure Zant, but Zant used Midna as a human (twili) shield.
According to Ganondorf and Zant, the Triforce of Power was superior to the shadow magic of the Twili. The kami were able to tell at a glance that the chosen Hero had Courage. Since at that point Ganondorf was still fused with Zant, he would have Power as well. There is no reason the kami wouldn't be able to discern that Zant was also a Bearer. Are you seriously telling me that a group of kami couldn't handle the shadow magic of proto-Twili when at the same time a lone kami apparently thought it had decent odds of overcoming the much stronger Triforce of Power?

Quote:
So called "Facts" spoken by characters have been proven wrong before. Look at the opening sequence to ALttp. It says that the six sages were human in race, though they obviously can't be per the story in OoT.
Prove that Fi was mistaken. Unlike mortal characters, who speak of things that they never personally witnessed, Fi was created by Hylia for the sole purpose of aiding the Hero. Why would Hylia purposefully give her faulty information?

Also, OoT Six Sages != LttP Seven Sages.

Quote:
It is never proven that the inhabitants found the area THEN created buildings.
Prove that they didn't. People building houses is something that we know is possible. Houses forming from the aether is not.
__________________
Heretic
SS > MC > OoT|MM > LttP > ALBW > OoS|OoA|LA > TP > FS|FSA > LoZ|AoL > WW|PH > ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamtos View Post
I'd call you our resident science fairy but you have more of a tendency to bulldoze over theories and "science bulldozer" just doesn't have that nickname sparkle.
Reply With Quote
1 person liked this post: Rakshael
  #124 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-25-2012, 08:52 AM
Devoid Devoid is a male United States Devoid is offline
Only during the darkest of times can one light shine the brightest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Between two worlds, seeking trut
View Posts: 343
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Prove it.
YOU CAN'T!!! The information is not there! you have to remember that all we're taking about is the lineage of 16 different games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Prove it. The kami must have been able to overcome the proto-Twili, or else they never would have managed to strip them of their shadow magic and banish them to begin with. So why didn't they just kill the proto-Twili when they were at their mercy?
They couldn't defeat them personally. thus, they sealed them in the twilight, took the fused shadow and broke it into 4 pieces. Much like the case behind the mirror of twilight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Plus, you still haven't explained how sealing the proto-Twili could possibly result in Twilight Realm overflowing into the Light World!
THEY THREW OFF THE BALANCE! Their great power shifted the balance of light and dark. The kami, seeing this unbalancing, had to force back the twilight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Because the context of the discussion is the kami! Bringing up the Sages is a red herring, because the Sages are vastly weaker than the kami, while at the same time Ganondorf claims to be more powerful than the Twili.
Who says? Who says the sages are weaker than the light spirits? Who says that, given the chance, the light spirits could have killed Ganondorf? And, if so, why didn't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
According to Ganondorf and Zant, the Triforce of Power was superior to the shadow magic of the Twili. The kami were able to tell at a glance that the chosen Hero had Courage. Since at that point Ganondorf was still fused with Zant, he would have Power as well. There is no reason the kami wouldn't be able to discern that Zant was also a Bearer. Are you seriously telling me that a group of kami couldn't handle the shadow magic of proto-Twili when at the same time a lone kami apparently thought it had decent odds of overcoming the much stronger Triforce of Power?
I never really thought of them as "fused". Plus, I highly doubt Ganondorf would ever give up the Triforce of Power, certainly to such a weak twili as Zant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Prove that Fi was mistaken. Unlike mortal characters, who speak of things that they never personally witnessed, Fi was created by Hylia for the sole purpose of aiding the Hero. Why would Hylia purposefully give her faulty information?
That's what she was told. This "lie" had no negative effect on Link's journey. Thus, no harm, no foul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Also, OoT Six Sages != LttP Seven Sages.
Then explain to me why "the sage's descendants" are not of other races. There should be one goron, one kokiri(if not Saria herself), one shiekah, one zora(you see what they turned out to be), and one gerudo. Who come they are all human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Prove that they didn't. People building houses is something that we know is possible. Houses forming from the aether is not.
Dark World mirrors Hyrule. That much is confirmed. Silent Realms mirror Hyrule. Confirmed. In the silent realms, you see structures from Skyloft. In the Dark World, you see structures from Kakariko Village. Why is it too farfetched for you to believe that this structures are translated over from Hyrule?

Both of our theories are possible. You stick to yours, I'll stick to mine.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #125 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-25-2012, 12:58 PM
Rakshael Rakshael is a male United States Rakshael is online now
Hyper Light...
Send a message via AIM to Rakshael Send a message via Skype™ to Rakshael
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Yaevin
View Posts: 2,742
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
YOU CAN'T!!! The information is not there! you have to remember that all we're taking about is the lineage of 16 different games!

Then you have no proof- whatsoever.

THEY THREW OFF THE BALANCE! Their great power shifted the balance of light and dark. The kami, seeing this unbalancing, had to force back the twilight.

The Twilight was a creation of Zant, not a karma imbalance from centuries past.

Who says? Who says the sages are weaker than the light spirits? Who says that, given the chance, the light spirits could have killed Ganondorf? And, if so, why didn't they?

They were forced to remain and guard against the Twilight invasion Zant brought on. I disagree with Chozo, I don't think the kami had a chance of taking on Ganondorf, but I do agree that one might be able to hold its own against a shred of it loaned to Zant.

I never really thought of them as "fused". Plus, I highly doubt Ganondorf would ever give up the Triforce of Power, certainly to such a weak twili as Zant.

When you have literally unlimited Power, what stops Ganon from giving exorbitant amounts to Zant? It costs him nothing.

That's what she was told. This "lie" had no negative effect on Link's journey. Thus, no harm, no foul.

Unless she wasn't lied to by the Goddess who had dominion/oversaw Hyrule?

Both of our theories are possible. You stick to yours, I'll stick to mine.

Your's doesn't even make sense. Why would Nintendo make Hyrule's natural state be Twilight, based upon an interdimensional invasion in one game?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #126 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Devoid Devoid is a male United States Devoid is offline
Only during the darkest of times can one light shine the brightest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Between two worlds, seeking trut
View Posts: 343
Re: Alternate realms

So wait... You guys are saying that the Twilight Realm and the Silent realms just popped up out of nowhere? Yeah, makes sense.

Quote:
Then you have no proof- whatsoever.
My original argument wasn't even based on wind waker. It was based on Twilight Princess. Darth over here started that broohaha(if that's how you spell it).

Quote:
The Twilight was a creation of Zant, not a karma imbalance from centuries past.
I'll quote Darth for this one. PROVE IT.

Quote:
They were forced to remain and guard against the Twilight invasion Zant brought on. I disagree with Chozo, I don't think the kami had a chance of taking on Ganondorf, but I do agree that one might be able to hold its own against a shred of it loaned to Zant.
Okay. That's not really an argument, just a statement of facts.

Quote:
When you have literally unlimited Power, what stops Ganon from giving exorbitant amounts to Zant? It costs him nothing.
I wouldn't suspect that Ganondorf has unlimited power. It wouldn't make sense for the Goddesses to leave all of the powers inside the Triforce. If it were, why can't Zelda fly or bend space? Why can't Link create new life (outside of the natural reproduction, of course)?

Quote:
Unless she wasn't lied to by the Goddess who had dominion/oversaw Hyrule?
Who says she knew herself? I'll agree that Hylia was a divine being but nowhere near as godly as the three goddesses. I personally believe that Hylia was a mortal before being 'divinitized' by the three goddesses... I don't know, just an idea of mine.

Quote:
Your's doesn't even make sense. Why would Nintendo make Hyrule's natural state be Twilight, based upon an interdimensional invasion in one game?
IT'S NOT NATURAL!!!! The light world is natural, but the balance was shifted once something inhabited the twilight realm.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #127 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Rakshael Rakshael is a male United States Rakshael is online now
Hyper Light...
Send a message via AIM to Rakshael Send a message via Skype™ to Rakshael
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Yaevin
View Posts: 2,742
Re: Alternate realms

Ok, ummm... I'm confused as to what exactly you're arguing at this point. I believe I shall leave this thread.

Goodbye, thread.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #128 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
made of star stuff
Send a message via AIM to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Yahoo to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Skype™ to Jedi Master Sagan
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Francsico
View Posts: 2,873
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
YOU CAN'T!!! The information is not there! you have to remember that all we're taking about is the lineage of 16 different games!
Then you're just making stuff up and there is no reason to accept your claim over simpler explanations that do conform with the information we have.

Quote:
They couldn't defeat them personally. thus, they sealed them in the twilight, took the fused shadow and broke it into 4 pieces. Much like the case behind the mirror of twilight.
If they couldn't defeat them, how did they seal them away? By asking nicely?

Quote:
THEY THREW OFF THE BALANCE! Their great power shifted the balance of light and dark. The kami, seeing this unbalancing, had to force back the twilight.
How? Making your claim again in caps explains nothing.

Quote:
Who says? Who says the sages are weaker than the light spirits? Who says that, given the chance, the light spirits could have killed Ganondorf? And, if so, why didn't they?
Are you serious? You're actually suggesting that the Sages are more powerful than the kami? When their power allowed Zelda's Light Arrows to neutralize Ganondorf's defenses, and the most that Ganondorf could do to them on short notice was incapacitation?

The reason the kami didn't intervene before Ganondorf got banished was because they weren't directed to by the gods. When Lanayru tells of the Triforce wars, it specifically says that it only intervened after being ordered to by the gods.

Quote:
I never really thought of them as "fused". Plus, I highly doubt Ganondorf would ever give up the Triforce of Power, certainly to such a weak twili as Zant.
He doesn't have to give up Power. Watch the cutscene where Zant meets Ganondorf again. Ganondorf says that he will house his power in Zant, and take Zant's desires as his own. Until he regained his body, for all intents and purposes Ganondorf was Zant.

Quote:
That's what she was told. This "lie" had no negative effect on Link's journey. Thus, no harm, no foul.
Prove it. We have no reason to believe that Fi's information is incorrect, and you certainly have not provided a plausible reason to think so.

Quote:
Then explain to me why "the sage's descendants" are not of other races. There should be one goron, one kokiri(if not Saria herself), one shiekah, one zora(you see what they turned out to be), and one gerudo. Who come they are all human?
Because the Seven Sages of the Seal War were a different group entirely? Come on, that should be obvious.

Quote:
Dark World mirrors Hyrule. That much is confirmed. Silent Realms mirror Hyrule. Confirmed. In the silent realms, you see structures from Skyloft. In the Dark World, you see structures from Kakariko Village. Why is it too farfetched for you to believe that this structures are translated over from Hyrule?
Because it'd be the only structures to translate like that? There's no graveyard in the Dark World. There's no cathedral. There's a giant pyramid where Hyrule Castle would be. What makes Kakariko so special that over everything else, it is the only man-made structure reproduced to such an extent?

Quote:
Both of our theories are possible. You stick to yours, I'll stick to mine.
And it's also possible that the entirety of the Zelda series is the dying hallucinations of Neo after Agent Smith shot him full of holes. Unless you've got actual proof that what you're saying is the case, you have no ground to stand on.
__________________
Heretic
SS > MC > OoT|MM > LttP > ALBW > OoS|OoA|LA > TP > FS|FSA > LoZ|AoL > WW|PH > ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamtos View Post
I'd call you our resident science fairy but you have more of a tendency to bulldoze over theories and "science bulldozer" just doesn't have that nickname sparkle.
Reply With Quote
1 person liked this post: Ganty
  #129 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-26-2012, 07:07 AM
Devoid Devoid is a male United States Devoid is offline
Only during the darkest of times can one light shine the brightest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Between two worlds, seeking trut
View Posts: 343
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Then you're just making stuff up and there is no reason to accept your claim over simpler explanations that do conform with the information we have.
If the story of the seal of the interlopers is believed to be true, along with where many fans believe such occurs on the timeline, then it's natural that the light spirits exist in every game after Skyward Sword: Minish Cap, Four swords, Ocarina of Time, A Link to the Past, Majora's Mask, Oox games, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, Four Swords Adventures, Phantom Hourglass, Zelda I, Spirit Tracks, and Zelda II. Their purpose, at the very least, to protect the peices of the Fused Shadow.

I do have information, just not information based upon the single game because it is irrelevant to WW Link's adventure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
If they couldn't defeat them, how did they seal them away? By asking nicely?
Once again, I am forced to compare this event to the Ganondorf Fiasco. They could defeat the Proto-twili, thus they forced them in and took the Fused Shadow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
How? Making your claim again in caps explains nothing.
Nothing is supposed to be in the twilight realm. Their mere presence threw off the presence, forcing the kami to keep the balance in check. If they could have something inside, why didn't Hylia seal Demise inside? Then he would've never gotten out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Are you serious? You're actually suggesting that the Sages are more powerful than the kami? When their power allowed Zelda's Light Arrows to neutralize Ganondorf's defenses, and the most that Ganondorf could do to them on short notice was incapacitation?
It's possible that the kami and the sages are equaled in power, just that they have different abilities. Obviously, neither of them could defeat Ganondorf by themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
The reason the kami didn't intervene before Ganondorf got banished was because they weren't directed to by the gods. When Lanayru tells of the Triforce wars, it specifically says that it only intervened after being ordered to by the gods.
Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
He doesn't have to give up Power. Watch the cutscene where Zant meets Ganondorf again. Ganondorf says that he will house his power in Zant, and take Zant's desires as his own. Until he regained his body, for all intents and purposes Ganondorf was Zant.
I still don't think that Ganondorf would provide Zant with all of his power. I mean, do you realize what kind of crap Ganondorf had to go through to get it? If I went through that much trouble I would trust anyone with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Prove it. We have no reason to believe that Fi's information is incorrect, and you certainly have not provided a plausible reason to think so.
It's impossible!!! Given the limited perspective of Link, being led by Fi, we can't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Because the Seven Sages of the Seal War were a different group entirely? Come on, that should be obvious.
Um...no. How is that possible if Link was defeated during the final battle with beast ganon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Because it'd be the only structures to translate like that? There's no graveyard in the Dark World. There's no cathedral. There's a giant pyramid where Hyrule Castle would be. What makes Kakariko so special that over everything else, it is the only man-made structure reproduced to such an extent?
It's possible that the sanctuary isn't translated because it's a "holy place."

Ganon built the pyramid over Hyrule castle. That should be obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
And it's also possible that the entirety of the Zelda series is the dying hallucinations of Neo after Agent Smith shot him full of holes. Unless you've got actual proof that what you're saying is the case, you have no ground to stand on.
Um... again, no. First of all, two different companies, two different creators, un-crossable storylines...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #130 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-26-2012, 11:32 PM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
made of star stuff
Send a message via AIM to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Yahoo to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Skype™ to Jedi Master Sagan
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Francsico
View Posts: 2,873
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
If the story of the seal of the interlopers is believed to be true, along with where many fans believe such occurs on the timeline, then it's natural that the light spirits exist in every game after Skyward Sword: Minish Cap, Four swords, Ocarina of Time, A Link to the Past, Majora's Mask, Oox games, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, Four Swords Adventures, Phantom Hourglass, Zelda I, Spirit Tracks, and Zelda II. Their purpose, at the very least, to protect the peices of the Fused Shadow.

I do have information, just not information based upon the single game because it is irrelevant to WW Link's adventure.
No, actually, there aren't any kami in ST. They were explicitly said to have returned to the heavens and left the task of watching over the land to the Lokomo. The entirety of ST should have taken place under Twilight physics, according to you.

Quote:
Once again, I am forced to compare this event to the Ganondorf Fiasco. They could defeat the Proto-twili, thus they forced them in and took the Fused Shadow.
Let me get this straight. The kami were able to force the proto-Twili to flee from them, and then were able to take their shadow magic, but were somehow unable to defeat them? Why did the proto-Twili run in the first place, then?

Quote:
Nothing is supposed to be in the twilight realm. Their mere presence threw off the presence, forcing the kami to keep the balance in check. If they could have something inside, why didn't Hylia seal Demise inside? Then he would've never gotten out!
You still aren't explaining anything! How does "seal stuff in" lead to "physics get overwritten?" If anything, the presence of Light Worlders in Twilight Realm should have led to either Twilight being contaminated with Light World physics, or the Light Worlders getting contaminated and adapting to Twilight Realm. Oh wait, that's exactly what we saw happen.

Quote:
I still don't think that Ganondorf would provide Zant with all of his power. I mean, do you realize what kind of crap Ganondorf had to go through to get it? If I went through that much trouble I would trust anyone with it.
Yeah, actually, I do. He didn't do anything for his power. That's the whole point of the child branch.

Besides, at that point Ganondorf was incorporeal and greatly weakened, which was why it took a few centuries for the whole invasion to even start. And you're suggesting he further split his power? If Ganondorf were concerned, then he could simply turn Zant into a puppet bent to his will. Guess what, Zant did indeed consider himself to be merely an extension of Ganondorf's will.

Quote:
It's impossible!!! Given the limited perspective of Link, being led by Fi, we can't!
Where is your proof? What justification is there for lying to the Hero?

Quote:
Um...no. How is that possible if Link was defeated during the final battle with beast ganon?
What? Are you being deliberately obtuse? According to the Historia, the Six Sages seal Ganon into the Dark World, but not the Dark World itself in the alternate OoT. Some unspecified amount of time later, monsters begin pouring out from the Dark World, and that's when the Seven Sages seal off the Dark World. We're not given any timeframe between the two, except for a rather contradictory "many years later" and "short-lived peace."

Quote:
It's possible that the sanctuary isn't translated because it's a "holy place."

Ganon built the pyramid over Hyrule castle. That should be obvious.
Way to not address the point at all. There are other structures in the Light World that didn't translate either. Again, why is Kakariko so special?

Quote:
Um... again, no. First of all, two different companies, two different creators, un-crossable storylines...
It's called hyperbole, guy. Look it up.
__________________
Heretic
SS > MC > OoT|MM > LttP > ALBW > OoS|OoA|LA > TP > FS|FSA > LoZ|AoL > WW|PH > ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamtos View Post
I'd call you our resident science fairy but you have more of a tendency to bulldoze over theories and "science bulldozer" just doesn't have that nickname sparkle.
Reply With Quote
1 person liked this post: Ganty
  #131 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-27-2012, 02:13 PM
Devoid Devoid is a male United States Devoid is offline
Only during the darkest of times can one light shine the brightest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Between two worlds, seeking trut
View Posts: 343
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
No, actually, there aren't any kami in ST. They were explicitly said to have returned to the heavens and left the task of watching over the land to the Lokomo. The entirety of ST should have taken place under Twilight physics, according to you.
That's a completely different land, though(). With a completely different history. Since we don't have the bridge story between PH and ST, we don't have full proof that these beings are the Light Spirits of TP. If these indeed are, then my theory is incredibly possible, or even confirmed; the idea of Twilight still existing in WW. Then they could have either restored the balance of Light and Dark by removing, or destroying, the Twili. Or on another idea, They could have simply passed on the task of balancing the Dark and Light Worlds to the Lokomo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Let me get this straight. The kami were able to force the proto-Twili to flee from them, and then were able to take their shadow magic, but were somehow unable to defeat them? Why did the proto-Twili run in the first place, then?
No! Where getting this "flee" crap? Did Ganondorf flee? No! He was tricked, caught off guard, by the light sages. Same thing, most likely, with the light spirits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
You still aren't explaining anything! How does "seal stuff in" lead to "physics get overwritten?" If anything, the presence of Light Worlders in Twilight Realm should have led to either Twilight being contaminated with Light World physics, or the Light Worlders getting contaminated and adapting to Twilight Realm. Oh wait, that's exactly what we saw happen.
1: Who's to say that the Dark Interlopers where part of the natural light anyway? They were evil! They could've even been a part of Demise's army! I'll agree that their form was changed by the environment of the Twilight, but honestly, that could be just natural evolution under the twilight physics.

2: Think of the balance as a coin. A heads and a tails. The light Spirits are and have always been the silver lining between them. The second that the Dark interlopers were forced into the twilight, the light spirits were forced to keep the balance even better than before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Yeah, actually, I do. He didn't do anything for his power. That's the whole point of the child branch.
I still don't think son't think that he would be that willing to give it to Zant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Besides, at that point Ganondorf was incorporeal and greatly weakened, which was why it took a few centuries for the whole invasion to even start. And you're suggesting he further split his power? If Ganondorf were concerned, then he could simply turn Zant into a puppet bent to his will. Guess what, Zant did indeed consider himself to be merely an extension of Ganondorf's will.
Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Where is your proof? What justification is there for lying to the Hero?
To hide the fact that the silent realms are actually part of the Sacred Realm.

If you are one to automatically refute the idea of the Silent Realms being part of the Sacred realms, look at this:


The Triforce is found INSIDE the ****ing Silent Realm. And as I'm sure you remember, per the OoT creation story, the Goddesses left the Trifoce INSIDE the ****ing Sacred Realm! This is almost irrefutable evidence that the Sacred Realm and the Silent Realm are one in the same!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
What? Are you being deliberately obtuse? According to the Historia, the Six Sages seal Ganon into the Dark World, but not the Dark World itself in the alternate OoT. Some unspecified amount of time later, monsters begin pouring out from the Dark World, and that's when the Seven Sages seal off the Dark World. We're not given any timeframe between the two, except for a rather contradictory "many years later" and "short-lived peace."
It's still questionable how the Races of the Six Oot Sages turned into humans... One could argue that evolution could have taken effect and turned them into humanoids, but looking at the Zoras:





They're actually more humanoid in Oot. Of course if they evolved from this:



There's obviously some evolution going on in Zelda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Way to not address the point at all. There are other structures in the Light World that didn't translate either. Again, why is Kakariko so special?
Well, it the hometown of a lot of people inside the Dark world, the only town within the Light World... Seems rather specific to me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
It's called hyperbole, guy. Look it up.
I know what a Hyperbole is. Do not resort to insults.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #132 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-27-2012, 10:52 PM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
made of star stuff
Send a message via AIM to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Yahoo to Jedi Master Sagan Send a message via Skype™ to Jedi Master Sagan
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Francsico
View Posts: 2,873
Re: Alternate realms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
That's a completely different land, though(). With a completely different history. Since we don't have the bridge story between PH and ST, we don't have full proof that these beings are the Light Spirits of TP. If these indeed are, then my theory is incredibly possible, or even confirmed; the idea of Twilight still existing in WW. Then they could have either restored the balance of Light and Dark by removing, or destroying, the Twili. Or on another idea, They could have simply passed on the task of balancing the Dark and Light Worlds to the Lokomo.
Except for the fact that there were only four kami involved in banishing the proto-Twili, and their jurisdictions certainly did not extend to the New World. And then the Lokomo went and entered the reincarnation cycle at the end of ST, and the world still isn't Twlight. Seriously, the evidence doesn't support you at all.

EDIT: Wait. Are you seriously suggesting that the kami would go into Twilight Realm and kill the Twili? This, after your insistence that the Twili are in Twilight Realm to begin with because the kami couldn't beat them?

Quote:
No! Where getting this "flee" crap? Did Ganondorf flee? No! He was tricked, caught off guard, by the light sages. Same thing, most likely, with the light spirits.
Did you even play TP? Midna explicitly says that her ancestors were chased all across Hyrule before finally being banished! Why would that happen if the kami were unable to defeat them?

Quote:
1: Who's to say that the Dark Interlopers where part of the natural light anyway? They were evil! They could've even been a part of Demise's army! I'll agree that their form was changed by the environment of the Twilight, but honestly, that could be just natural evolution under the twilight physics.
Oh they're demons now? Does that mean that all the Hylians who ventured into the Dark World prior to the Seal War were demons as well? Not that it matters; Lanayru says that they were people, not demons.

Quote:
2: Think of the balance as a coin. A heads and a tails. The light Spirits are and have always been the silver lining between them. The second that the Dark interlopers were forced into the twilight, the light spirits were forced to keep the balance even better than before.
Still makes absolutely no sense. Why would that weight the balance away from the Light World?

Quote:
To hide the fact that the silent realms are actually part of the Sacred Realm.
So Hylia lied about the Silent Realms because they're the Sacred Realm, and they're the Sacred Realm because she lied about them. You... honestly don't see a problem with this logic?

Quote:
If you are one to automatically refute the idea of the Silent Realms being part of the Sacred realms, look at this:
http://www.zeldainformer.com/images/...e/triforce.jpg

The Triforce is found INSIDE the ****ing Silent Realm. And as I'm sure you remember, per the OoT creation story, the Goddesses left the Trifoce INSIDE the ****ing Sacred Realm! This is almost irrefutable evidence that the Sacred Realm and the Silent Realm are one in the same!
Except it wasn't the Three who left the Triforce in the Sacred Realm. It was the Hylians, considering that at the end of SS the Triforce was in the Light World. And prior to that it was Hylia who hid the Triforce in the Silent Realms. In three pieces, I might add. It's pretty obvious that there was drift in the lore between SS and OoT.

Quote:
*snip bunch of irrelevant stuff*
So what? The ancient Sages who built the Temple of Time were all apparently Hylian too, and they were succeeded by the affirmative action friendly Six Sages. Sagehood isn't racially dependent.

Quote:
Well, it the hometown of a lot of people inside the Dark world, the only town within the Light World... Seems rather specific to me!
So the Zora don't count as people now? The entirety of Zora's Domain is reduced to a pond. Why the difference?

Quote:
I know what a Hyperbole is. Do not resort to insults.
Then stop missing the point. The evidence doesn't agree with you, just like it doesn't agree with the idea that this is all in the Matrix. To continue to insist otherwise is foolishness.
__________________
Heretic
SS > MC > OoT|MM > LttP > ALBW > OoS|OoA|LA > TP > FS|FSA > LoZ|AoL > WW|PH > ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamtos View Post
I'd call you our resident science fairy but you have more of a tendency to bulldoze over theories and "science bulldozer" just doesn't have that nickname sparkle.
Last Edited by Jedi Master Sagan; 05-30-2012 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
1 person liked this post: Stormkalv
  #133 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-29-2012, 01:55 PM
oliverstorm oliverstorm is a male United States oliverstorm is offline
Deku Scrub
Join Date: May 2012
Location: stuck on the Windfish. help!
View Posts: 29
Re: Alternate realms

the dark relm was made because gannondorf got the triforce so it would no exist in the timeline wear link wins and stops gannon. also we know that this happens right after OOT supporting that. if you judge this by the moons face it may just be because the moon has been too far to see the face.
__________________
Oliverstorm
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertisement

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:31 AM.

Copyright © 2014 Zelda Universe - Privacy Statement -