Post-HH Geography

I'd never though of Death Mountain possibly being a range of mountains. Interesting.

I must say, you've peaked my interest again in putting Hyrule all together. I've actually been playing around with the map on MS paint the passed couple days.

Concerning the issue of multiple Death Mountains: The possibility of an earthquake or volcanic eruption between games is not only very possible but likely. Either of these could potentially create a new mountain or destroy an old one, respectively. Seeing as Eldin Volcano was very active indeed, it may be that it blew up (reason for disappearing mogmas?), and another earthquake created Death Mountain. Just a thought.

It's entirely possible, but I'm not sure it's necessary. You can completely reconcile the location of the mountains in the games without creation or destruction. Keep in mind that while it's possible through tectonic shift or erosion, mountains are the most difficult feature to change, and take the most time.
I don't discount the idea of Eldin Volcano erupting at some point and expelling/killing the Mogma. My pet theory is that Volvagia appeared and the Mogma left because they clearly don't like monsters!

Wow. That's the most believable and accurate Hyrule map I've ever seen. Nice job! The overall geography of the series seems a mite easier to understand now. *applause*

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------

I was just looking over the map again, and I had an idea. Could Eldin Volcano (SS) become Zora's Domain (TP)? Zora's Domain in TP is elevated, and seems a bit mountain-ish. Maybe the reason the Mogmas left was because it flooded, or maybe erupted then flooded. Something along those lines. Any opinions on this theory? (This is officially my theory)

---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind

But what I was getting at about Lake Floria was that not only does it show where the lake ends on the start map but it also is surrounded by land when you're there.



And Minish Cap's Lake Hylia certainly has land surrounding it on all sides:



Although, I remember there being an opening; probably the mouth of a river that travels east of Lake Hylia.

Now what makes you think FSA Hyrule is on a whole different island?

Also because a lake is generally a large, but closed body of water. An open lake is usually called a bay.

Originally Posted by ZeldaHistorian

It's entirely possible, but I'm not sure it's necessary. You can completely reconcile the location of the mountains in the games without creation or destruction. Keep in mind that while it's possible through tectonic shift or erosion, mountains are the most difficult feature to change, and take the most time.
I don't discount the idea of Eldin Volcano erupting at some point and expelling/killing the Mogma. My pet theory is that Volvagia appeared and the Mogma left because they clearly don't like monsters!

I like that theory. But why should they leave? Volvagia is one of the Guardians of Hyrule in the Hero of Time era, and was only evil because Ganondorf cursed him.

Originally Posted by Rakshael

Concerning the issue of multiple Death Mountains: The possibility of an earthquake or volcanic eruption between games is not only very possible but likely. Either of these could potentially create a new mountain or destroy an old one, respectively. Seeing as Eldin Volcano was very active indeed, it may be that it blew up (reason for disappearing mogmas?), and another earthquake created Death Mountain. Just a thought.

Quiet a few races disappear or appear out of nowhere already, such as the Gerudo disappearing between Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures and the Zuna popping out of nowhere in the latter said game. The Kikwi also disappear... but then again, Faron Woods has only appeared in two games so far. In the entire Zelda series, the Kokiwi/Koroks have only appeared twice. Bearing the Adult Timeline, they just disappear from the other two. Then again, we don't see Kokiri Forest, so they're probably just hiding there. The Gerudo appear out of nowhere after Skyward Sword, but I'm willing to bet they came from a foreign land and settled in the desert. The River Zoras appear out no nowhere and then become recurring chronologically. The Gorons and Zoras are the only truly consent races in the series. Their absence from Hyrule in the Decline Timeline explains their presence in Holodrum and Labrynna - they moved.

Eldin Volcano already interrupted during Skyward Sword in the latter part of the game and the Mogma was perfectly fine even during the eruption. They probably just moved because there wasn't any treasure left in the area. Even the Mogma elder admits he is sick of Eldin Volcano and wants to move.

It's a very well made map, though there are a few things that I disagree with.

I do believe that Death Mountain is part of a range of mountains. That's generally how mountains work, but Death Mountain refers to a specific mountain in the range. It is most likely the tallest, most prominent mountain there.

I don't believe there are three Kakariko Villages. The Hidden village in TP is supposed to be the OOT Kakariko.

I don't believe that Holodrum or Labrynna are part of Hyrule. There are some similar land marks, but I see no reason to believe they are the same area.

Also, where do you think the area from the original Four Swords is?

The Hidden village in TP is supposed to be the OOT Kakariko.

I'm going to have to take you up on that. How so? Especially since, in OoT, Kakariko village is due east from the Master Sword and the hidden village (Old Kakariko) is pretty well north-east of it.

Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind

I'm going to have to take you up on that. How so? Especially since, in OoT, Kakariko village is due east from the Master Sword and the hidden village (Old Kakariko) is pretty well north-east of it.

That's assuming the MS didn't move. Matching up landmarks between the two maps has the hidden village essentially right where Kakariko was, with the Castle in TP being south of where it was in OOT.

I find it more likely that the MS was moved rather than there are multiple Lake Hylias and the such. Especially since the Temple of Time in TP is much larger than its OOT counterpart. It might even be the now overgrown ruins of the SS Temple of Time. It is south of the desert area of TP after all.

Just a few quick comments:

The Great Sea labeled in the OT map should be called the Southern Sea, if ALttP/OoX/LA is canon, because Link was supposedly returning to Hyrule by sailing on the Southern Sea according the original manual.

LoZ featured a DM with Spectacle Rock. ALttP Lso featured a DM with Spectacle Rock. Even if the games depict different peaks that are in the same mountain range they also include the same landmark. Does not compute.

Originally Posted by silver arrow

That's assuming the MS didn't move. Matching up landmarks between the two maps has the hidden village essentially right where Kakariko was, with the Castle in TP being south of where it was in OOT.

I find it more likely that the MS was moved rather than there are multiple Lake Hylias and the such. Especially since the Temple of Time in TP is much larger than its OOT counterpart. It might even be the now overgrown ruins of the SS Temple of Time. It is south of the desert area of TP after all.

Actually, the Historia says that the OoT Temple of Time was built over where the old Sealed Temple was thought to be. Unfortunately, Glitterberri's site is down, so you'll have to make do with Google translate, edited for grammar.

Originally Posted by Hyrule Historia, p77

ハイラル王国の建国
女神ハイリアの生もれ変わであるゼルダの血を引く者が、ハイラル王国を建国。時の神殿があるハイラルの中心 地に城を構え、聖地とトライフォースを密かに守る。
Founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule
Those who inherited the blood of Zelda and the essence of the goddess Hylia, founded the kingdom of Hyrule. They built a castle in the center of Hyrule near the Temple of Time, to secretly protect the Holy Land and the Triforce.

時の神殿
聖地にある光の神殿へと続く唯一の入口。太古の時代、砂漠にあった神殿と同名であるが、ラウルに造られた神 殿の場所は、封印の神殿があった場所にあたると思われる。
The Temple of Time
The only entrance leading to the Temple of Light in the Holy Land. In ancient times, there was a temple with the same name in the desert, but the temple built by Rauru is allegedly where the Sealed Temple was located.

The page also has a picture of the Castle Town Temple of Time. And well, the Sealed Temple was in Faron Woods...

Originally Posted by silver arrow

Especially since the Temple of Time in TP is much larger than its OOT counterpart.

Everything in TP is larger than usual.

Originally Posted by silver arrow

I don't believe there are three Kakariko Villages. The Hidden village in TP is supposed to be the OOT Kakariko.

This is very contradictory, however. Let's make comparisons:

Kakarik0 Village (Ocarina of Time)
At the foot of Death Mountain
Graveyard
Well
Public, not hidden

Kakariko Village (Twilight Princess)
At the foot of Death Mountain
Graveyard
Well
Public, not hidden

Hidden Village/Old Kakariko (Twilight Princess)
Not at the foot of Death Mountain
No graveyard
No well
Hidden, not public

Now, not only is the main Kakariko Village in Twilight Princess at the foot of Death Mountain, ect., but the Kakariko in Ocarina of Time wasn't hidden. It was open to the public, to anyone who wanted to live there. The Hidden Village was implied to be a secreted Sheikah-only village. It was well-hidden as well. The theory that they're the same requires one to say someone decided to magically remove Kakariko Village from the mountain area, dump it somewhere in the north and then surround it by rocks so that it's hidden and no one can find it.

The mere fact that the Hidden Village is, well, hidden, implies to me that it's hidden during Ocarina of Time. It explains where all the Sheikah are. In fact, I believe the village was intended as an explanation for why we hear about the Sheikah but never see them: they're in a hidden village, which is hidden for that specific reasons.

Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi

Actually, the Historia says that the OoT Temple of Time was built over where the old Sealed Temple was thought to be. Unfortunately, Glitterberri's site is down, so you'll have to make do with Google translate, edited for grammar.

The page also has a picture of the Castle Town Temple of Time. And well, the Sealed Temple was in Faron Woods...

Exactly this. Hyrule Historia never says anything about there being three temples called the Temple of Time, but only two: the ancient one in the desert and the newer one built by Rauru over the Sealed Temple. If the temples in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were supposed to be different, Hyrule Historia would have said so. As Darth Yoshi pointed out, it uses an image of the Temple of Time in Ocarina of Time and mentions building over the Sealed Temple, which exactly where the Temple of Time in Twilight Princess is: directly to the west of Faron Woods.

Originally Posted by Her Grace

The mere fact that the Hidden Village is, well, hidden, implies to me that it's hidden during Ocarina of Time. It explains where all the Sheikah are. In fact, I believe the village was intended as an explanation for why we hear about the Sheikah but never see them: they're in a hidden village, which is hidden for that specific reasons.

I agree. I like to think that's where Zelda and Impa escaped to when Ganondorf was chasing them.

If it is the same temple as in OOT, then that also means that the old castle and castle town should be there in the forest too. It also means that most of OOT's geography, which greatly resembles TP's is south of the TP map. This means a second lake Hylia, and a second Death Mountain. You can try to get out of the Death Mountain one by BSing that they meant the Death Mountain Range. There is no excuse for Lake Hylia though. Naming of major land marks doesn't work that way. Nobody would give two major lakes, that close together, the same name.

The Hidden village used to be the home of the Sheikah. It doesn't have a path to Death Mountain in game in TP, but it is surrounded by rocky cliffs that could easily house a path up the mountain.

Kakariko in OOT IS the home of the Sheikah. Impa grew up there with other Sheikah.

It's much more likely that the sword was moved.

Originally Posted by silver arrow

If it is the same temple as in OOT, then that also means that the old castle and castle town should be there in the forest too. It also means that most of OOT's geography, which greatly resembles TP's is south of the TP map. This means a second lake Hylia, and a second Death Mountain. You can try to get out of the Death Mountain one by BSing that they meant the Death Mountain Range. There is no excuse for Lake Hylia though. Naming of major land marks doesn't work that way. Nobody would give two major lakes, that close together, the same name.

I assume he is going by what Hyrule Historia said in regards to this Temple of Time issue: many years after the events of Skyward Sword but shortly before Hyrule was established, Rauru built the Temple of Time over the remains of the Sealed Temple, which is... well, pretty much part of the Faron Woods, but to the west. This perfectly fits with the temple's location in Twilight Princess. So then we assumed the temple's non-Faron Woods location in Ocarina of Time was a retcon. That is, until, after saying the temple was built over the Sealed Temple, in the Faron Woods, Hyrule Castle was built right near by it and the Sealed Grounds became the center/capital of Hyrule with the castle nearby. The capital of Hyrule... in Faron Woods. However, this makes a LOT of sense because the Lanayru Province is a desert during that time. The capital of Hyrule as we see it in Twilight Princess is uninhabitable and in ruin years before that. The Faron Province at the time is the only habitable place, so it makes sense that Hyrule Historia says the capital of Hyrule, which the castle and town are, was first established in the Faron Province. By the time of Twilight Princess, the Lanayru Province has mostly become habitable again, explaining why they move.

The Hidden village used to be the home of the Sheikah. It doesn't have a path to Death Mountain in game in TP, but it is surrounded by rocky cliffs that could easily house a path up the mountain.

Kakariko in OOT IS the home of the Sheikah. Impa grew up there with other Sheikah.

It's much more likely that the sword was moved.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi

you'll have to make do with Google translate, edited for grammar.

I have the translation of that part floating around on this forum:

ハイラル王国の建国
Founding of the Hyrule Kingdom

女神ハイリアの生まれ変わりであるゼルダの血を引く者が、ハイラル王国を建国。時の神殿がある ハイラルの中 心地に城を構え、聖地とトライフォースを密はい守る。
Those who had come down the bloodline of Zelda, the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia, founded Hyrule. The Temple of Time was held in the center of Hyrule with a castle near so the Holy Land and the Triforce were protected.

時の神殿
The Temple of Time

聖地にある光の神殿へと続く唯一の入口。太古の時代、砂漠にあった神殿と同名であるが、ラウル に造られた神 殿の埸所は、封印の神殿があった埸所にあたると思われる。
The only enterance to the Temple of Light, which is in the Holy Land. In ancient times, there was a temple which had the same name; but the location in which Rauru built the temple was where the temple of the seal was thought to be.

And I never used Google translate.

Originally Posted by silver arrow

If it is the same temple as in OOT, then that also means that the old castle and castle town should be there in the forest too.

Castle Town? Yes. Forest? Yes and no. People cut down trees to build, which is probably why the ToT, Hyrule Castle, and the Market are not in a forest. By the time of TP, people abandoned the old Hyrule Castle and built a new one, making the ToT overgrown with trees and all that jazz.

This means a second lake Hylia, and a second Death Mountain.

A second Lake Hylia is possible, seeing as how LH in OoT is south of the ToT and in TP it's north of the ToT.

As for a second Death Mountain, that doesn't really make sense. Why would there need to be another Death Mountain?

The second-Death Mountain thing is actually one thing I disagree with here. Although, as a range of mountains; Death Mountain could be in both places but in separate places between different games.

Either there are two Lake Hylias and two Death Mountains, or the Temples in TP and OOT are not the same temple. It's as simple as that. People don't give different major land marks the same name. They just don't. I don't see why they would even in the fictional land of Hyrule. Buildings often are given the same name though when one is a replacement of the other.

Either that or the geography is inconsistent and shouldn't be worried about.