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View Poll Results: Do you believe that the DT is based off of a "what if" scenario?
Yes 13 39.39%
I have mixed feelings. 11 33.33%
No 9 27.27%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 08:17 AM
Nagumo Nagumo is a female Netherlands Nagumo is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Eh, I'm sure there is an explanation for it, or one will eventually be made. People who say it's just a what-if always come off to me as being just cynical about the timeline.
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Last Edited by Nagumo; 02-10-2012 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 08:39 AM
StinksAwakening United States StinksAwakening is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

I consider them all to be "what ifs". The battle between the Hero of Time and Ganondorf is a very pivotal moment, and the outcome of the battle results in two different legends being told.

The intro to ALttP and the intro to WW describe both events as "legends". ALttP doesn't actually mention the Hero of Time, but it does say that the events of that era were "obscured by the mists of time and became legend."

WW, likewise says that "this is but one of the legends that the people speak of", or something like that.

In Hyrule Historia, Eiji Aonuma goes on to say "The history of Hyrule changes depending on time and those passing down the story."

So basically, we have two different people(or groups of people) telling the story of the Hero of Time. One says that Link defeated Ganondorf. The other says he lost.
Last Edited by StinksAwakening; 02-10-2012 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 09:09 AM
Kasuto Kasuto is a male Kasuto is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
The fact it states the DT as being a scenario if Link would die seems clear in my eyes.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------





You've contradicted yourself.
I did no such thing. HH makes it abundantly clear that the AT is as much a what-if as the DT is - as did my first post. You, however, inferred that the DT alone is a what-if.
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 09:14 AM
The Baton of the Wind The Baton of the Wind is a male United States The Baton of the Wind is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

About this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal
"The HH states that the DT is the result if the Hero failed. In the event the Hero could fail, the DT is what would transpire. relegates it to a "what if" scenario which explicitly with that, being stated as such in the book itself. And due to the fact the hero does indeed win to open the CT and AT."
They're all implied as "ifs" -

Quote:
各作品を紡ぐハイラル史年表
Weaving each work of the chronology of Hyrule

天地創造と「トライフォース」から始まり、「時のオカリナ」のあとは3軸に分かれる。リンクが 勝利した場合 と敗北した場合、勝利した場合リンクがもといた子ども時代とリンクがいなくなった大人時代から 続いていく。
In the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, there was the Triforce, and after "Ocarina of Time" *it* [the chronology] splits into 3 axes. It is between if Link wins and if he's defeated; if Link wins he is sent to the child era and disappears from the adult era.
It is not either-or, they're both "what-ifs." Its like an alternate ending thing.
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Translations:

SS --- TWW

1...........1
2...........2
3...........3
4...........4
5...........5
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 09:20 AM
SuperDecimal SuperDecimal is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasuto View Post
I did no such thing. HH makes it abundantly clear that the AT is as much a what-if as the DT is - as did my first post. You, however, inferred that the DT alone is a what-if.
This is correct.
I put forward that the DT is more inherently a "what if" scenario due to the fact that Link does win in the end.

And also the fact that ALttP's backstory and the Link dying in the final battle with Ganon are completely irreconcilably different. They contradict one another completely.
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  #26 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 AM
The Baton of the Wind The Baton of the Wind is a male United States The Baton of the Wind is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

The CT and the AT are not what-ifs to each other. The DT is a what-if to both of them, and both the CT and the AT are what-ifs to the DT.
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Translations:

SS --- TWW

1...........1
2...........2
3...........3
4...........4
5...........5
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  #27 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 09:44 AM
SuperDecimal SuperDecimal is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind View Post
The CT and the AT are not what-ifs to each other. The DT is a what-if to both of them, and both the CT and the AT are what-ifs to the DT.
I don't think at any point I've said the AT and CT are "what ifs."
They've coexisted as the repercussions of OoT and the legacy of the HoT for years now.

I've only ever maintained since the HH that the DT is a "what if" scenario. The CT and AT transpire as usual.

And if one would take the ALttP route, then the AT and CT would not exist as. That follows.
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  #28 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 10:01 AM
Kenziex123 Kenziex123 is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Just because it clearly states if does not necessarily mean that it's going to be a "what if" scenario. Like some of you mentioned, it also says if for the defeating Ganon timelines.

The Hyrule Historia quote posted above ^:

"In the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, there was the Triforce, and after "Ocarina of Time" *it* [the chronology] splits into 3 axes. It is between if Link wins and if he's defeated; if Link wins he is sent to the child era and disappears from the adult era."

Notice that the CT and the AT are slightly explained in this quote and the DT hasn't been explained at all? You can immediately assume that it's just plain and simple, a "what if" scenario. However there is still a whole lot to add on to it. With the release of future games, the Hyrule Historia could be updated, which could clarify most things. Or maybe a new game could take place in the events before ALttP featuring a "secret legend". Who knows, but if I were to choose, I would go against this "what if" scenario, Nintendo is not that lazy/stupid.

The timeline is not completed, and is not going to be for a long time.
Last Edited by Kenziex123; 02-10-2012 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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  #29 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 10:38 AM
Mack Mack is a male Canada Mack is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Alright... so I'm just going to assume it can go both ways.
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  #30 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 10:42 AM
SuperDecimal SuperDecimal is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

At this point in time, I think it necessary to point out that the HH isn't 100% watertight and that Aonuma himself disclaims there are contradictions in the book and to be broad-minded about things.

People can interpret and make sense of the timeline in whatever way they wish and see it personally. To engage and interpret a series you enjoy is one of the most intrinsic things fans can do to enjoy the series.

People are all entitled to their own interpretations. No-one is necessarily wrong or right. The entire issue is still very much subjective in many regards.
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  #31 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 10:44 AM
An Hero of Time An Hero of Time is a female United States An Hero of Time is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McIntosh View Post
Nintendo Finally Releases the Official Zelda Timeline | Geekosystem

I'll just leave that here

Don't know if it's true or not though
Dude,

You are like,

2 months late.

Yes, it is official - and it's been known for a while now.
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  #32 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 12:32 PM
Kasuto Kasuto is a male Kasuto is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
I put forward that the DT is more inherently a "what if" scenario due to the fact that Link does win in the end.
He doesn't win in the scenario where he fails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
And also the fact that ALttP's backstory and the Link dying in the final battle with Ganon are completely irreconcilably different. They contradict one another completely.
The ALttP backstory, particularly the one in the manual, is outdated. HH contains new, more accurate information that overrides it.
That's my view, at least.
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Last Edited by Kasuto; 02-10-2012 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 12:53 PM
GrimmyV GrimmyV is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Oh, if only OoT had gotten the SW correct... but then what would we do if we didn't have such a contradictory timeline to discuss? But then I'm one of the few people who prefer most other Zelda games to OoT, others might view this game as the best and essential to the entire series, but I thought it was ugly and weird when it came out. The 3DS remake was a big improvement, though, moving OoT up a few notches in my book.

Too bad the HH didn't just state the DT happens if Ganon had entered the SR from someplace other than the ToT. Would that have been more believable?
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  #34 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 12:56 PM
The Hero Of Timelords The Hero Of Timelords is a male United States The Hero Of Timelords is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Where else would he have entered it? It's not like theres an entrance to it in everyone's back yard...
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  #35 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 02:10 PM
Jedi Master Sagan Jedi Master Sagan is a male United States Jedi Master Sagan is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Well, according to LttP, maybe not in the backyard specifically, but there are portals everywhere if you what to look for.
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  #36 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 02:13 PM
Kasuto Kasuto is a male Kasuto is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Yep. At least around the time of the SW
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  #37 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 08:01 PM
The Doctor The Doctor is a male United States The Doctor is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoman View Post
It's not a what if, Link died. It leads to those games in the timeline. Most people call it a what if because they believe that it is impossible for Link to die.
People call it a "what if" because we never saw the event occur in the game, not because people don't think Link can't die.
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  #38 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 08:37 PM
GrimmyV GrimmyV is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who? View Post
People call it a "what if" because we never saw the event occur in the game, not because people don't think Link can't die.
I dunno, I saw Link run out of hearts before. Ganon winning is a logical extension of the narrative in a 'game over' situation. The version that HH told, and the point of divergence, doesnt seem to fit the exact situation of the final boss battle in OoT, however. But HH is what we got, and I'm fine with that.
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Last Edited by GrimmyV; 02-10-2012 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-10-2012, 08:56 PM
Soeroah Australia Soeroah is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

Technically, the other two timelines are what-ifs from the perspective of any one timeline. The difference is, in playing Ocarina of Time, we explicitly saw the creation of two timelines. The fanbase since took on the assumption that timelines have to be created through the events of a game we play, not an 'if we fail' scenario, as the Downfall Timeline was.


Fact is, the Downfall Timeline happens in some alternate universe, the same way the Adult Timeline happens in an alternate universe from the Child Timeline. We just played and created the AT and the CT, so people call the Downfall Timeline a what-if scenario because we never create it, it just happens off-screen in another universe where Link failed.


Who knows, mabye in the future we'll get a DT game (unlikely) that tidies it up by saying the DT was the original timeline, and we use time travel to ensure the events of Ocarina of Time occur as they do in Ocarina of Time, thus creating the other two timelines from the third.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Her Grace Her Grace is a male United Kingdom Her Grace is offline
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Re: So this "what if" scenario has been confirmed?

It isn't a "what if" scenario, per say. I think it is more simply a case of, well, being an alternate timeline. As in, it's an alternate version of Ocarina of Time in which the Hero of Time is defeated. A different universe where that story ended differently. The developers could make more alternate universes for each and every scenario if they wanted, but thankfully it only applies to Ocarina of Time's game over screen leading into the events of all the original games in the series.
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