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  #81 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-04-2012, 03:37 PM
SuperDecimal SuperDecimal is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Oh. Well if it's a case of deliberately claiming things contrary to the HH then that's something different.

I can only speak for myself in that many things are just too obscure at this time to be taken properly in terms of what's been translated and the interpretations of them.

In fact, in one thread (they all seem to blur together) someone and myself were debating something, then realised we were actually arguing the same thing, only through different, individual interpretations of the same text.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Window View Post
It is indeed wrong to claim that the Historia states that AST and LCT are non-canon, or "not included in the continuity" or something similar.

Still, the word "canon" seems to have no valid usage wihtin the Zelda community. If the theorizing community will treat the information from the Historia as "what is actually relevant and official", then it follows as a consequence that AST and LCT will be excluded from that definition, and thus from the timeline-related theorizing sections. Therefore they will, in practice, be non-canonical (even though they are not).

/Blue Window
At the end of the day, the players are well entitled to interpret, play around and present the games as they want. It's their right as the audience to be able to make of their beloved series what they will.

While nintendo have stated the official timeline, it does not in any way take away the right of the fans to enjoy the series in any way they want.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:54 PM
Blue Window Blue Window is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal

At the end of the day, the players are well entitled to interpret, play around and present the games as they want. It's their right as the audience to be able to make of their beloved series what they will.

While nintendo have stated the official timeline, it does not in any way take away the right of the fans to enjoy the series in any way they want.
Since this is more or less the premise upon which I constructed my earlier post, I will just add that, in the end, people can and will think whatever they want of the Historia, what is canon, and what canon is for that matter.

However, the "general theorizing canon", I daresay, will be created by the majority opinions in the theorizing community. Miyamoto and Aonuma can say anything the want about the timeline, if the fanbase does not accept it, it will not be included in the "general theorizing canon". Since, perhaps unfortuantely, it is this "canon" that new theorists are "indoctrinated" to adhere to, it is perhaps more influencial than what Nintendo actually says.

/Blue Window
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:23 PM
The Baton of the Wind The Baton of the Wind is a male United States The Baton of the Wind is online now
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Page 68:

Quote:
神の国ハイラルの年代記
Chronology of Hyrule: The Country of the Gods

トライフォースをめぐる輪廻の歴史
The History of Reincarnation Concerning the Triforce

…これはあなた方人間によって語る継がれた物語…
...This is a story you humans have passed down by word of mouth...

ここで紹介していくのは、数ある「ゼルダの伝説」シリーズを時代軸で紡いだハイラルの歴史。
Here, we introduce the fate of "The Legend of Zelda" series in which the history of Hyrule is spun by the axis of time.

何ゆえ「伝説」であり、「輪廻の歴史」であるのか。
So what is the "Legend", and what is the "History of Reincarnation?"

「スカイウォードソード」が「始まりの物語」と言われるゆえんを、後の年代まで追って記す。
We explain the reason "Skyward Sword" is the opening story, and we go through the late generations.

紡いでいるのは、あくまで歴史の流れであるため、実際の冒険については自分の手で触り、確かめてみてほしい 。
The only course of its history spins the adventure you hold in your hands.

【 歴史を読み解く前に 】
Before You Interperet the History

現時点での歴史を紡いでいる
Spinning the Present History

この年代記は、現時点で確認できる情報を紡いだにすぎず、不明瞭な部分も多くある。
This chronology that we spun is the only information that can be confirmed at this time, though it is very obscure.

そして、ハイラルの歴史は時世や語り継く者によって変化し、これからも紡がれていく。
And the history of Hyrule surely changes as its told throughout time, as we've spun its future.

大きく揺らぐことはないにしても、今後新たな伝説が生まれ、歴史が書きかえらていくかもしれな い。
Even without greatly undermining it, a new legend is born in the future, so we may rewrite history.
I am requesting some assistance on here. The word [紡い] and all of its variations are throwing me off!

Also, note the next paragraph is about the etymology of Link's name. They basically say that he's named Link because the player "links" to the character through playing the game. Or something to that effect. I saw it in a thread, once.

Quote:
I just have to say that I find it funny... The Hero's shade isn't Link. It's what remained in Hyrule when Link died: his regret. That's why the sentence specifies "It" and "Link" as two different entities.
Hmm, well he helped me on the translation of that paragraph. And here it is again, let's see... :

Quote:
リンクが初めてトワイライトに足を踏み入れた際、手の甲に勇気のトライフォースの紋章が輝いて 獣の姿になり 、人間に戻った際には勇者が着ていたという縁衣をまとっていた。リンクは、先祖である時の勇者 の亡霊から奥 義を教わる。彼は子ども時代に戻って以降、勇者として名残せかったことを無念に感じていた。そ れゆえリンク に「息子よ」と語りかけ、勇気の証と奥義継いだのだ。

When Link first set foot in the Twilight, the crest of the Triforce of Courage shined on the back of his hand; when he returned to human-form he wore the hero wore. Link is taught mysteries from the ghost of the hero of time. Since he returned to his childhood, he'd felt regret that he would leave his name as hero. Therefore, the "son" of Link speaks to it and inheirited mysteries and the proof of courage.
Hmm, yeah I'm perplexed. He told me the 'it' of the last sentence is the ghost...

Plus it clearly says he is taught by the ghost of the hero of time....
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---Hyrule Historia Translations -Revisited, Reviewed & Revised - Japanese Text Included---


Translations:

SS --- TWW

1...........1
2...........2
3...........3
4...........4
5...........5
Last Edited by The Baton of the Wind; 01-04-2012 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #84 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-04-2012, 05:11 PM
BalladOfGales BalladOfGales is a male United States BalladOfGales is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind View Post
Hmm, yeah I'm perplexed. He told me the 'it' of the last sentence is the ghost...

Plus it clearly says he is taught by the ghost of the hero of time....
A ghost is probably technically gender-neutral, so while the Hero's Shade is the ghost of a man, it can be referred to as "he" or "it."
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:17 PM
Crazyfreak Crazyfreak is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

I still believe that TP Link is OOT Link's decendant merely spirtual and not blood related. It's really mainly because of what Demise said.

I also believe now that Oot Link's regret made him probably a more lonely person.Nobody could really understand what he went through and what he felt. Maybe Oot Link really wanted to go back to the adult timeline and regretted his decision to become a child again.

I feel like Oot Link could only be at peace when he was teaching the hidden moves to TP Link, it seems Oot Link never passed away his legacy and his sword skills to another person.

=/ and yeah I really don't believe anymore that Oot Link lived a happy life.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:51 PM
Big One Big One is a male United States Big One is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyfreak View Post
I still believe that TP Link is OOT Link's decendant merely spirtual and not blood related. It's really mainly because of what Demise said.
It's probably a mixture of both, or more-so, they share a common ancestor (SS Link). The backstory of Link is actually more consistent than you would think, cause no matter what you ALWAYS Link his ancestry to the knights of Hyrule, always, no matter what. This also shared by other characters like Ashei, Gonzo, Tetra's crew, etc.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:54 PM
Commander GorMor Canada Commander GorMor is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

I don't like to think of it that way.

Link, or all Links, have always striked me as being a more humble person, not really caring at all if they were called a hero or not. Link just wanted to live his life as a child again, he was essentially still a child trapped inside a man's body.

It seems very uncharacteristic that Link wanted to always be portrayed as a hero. Maybe he felt more responsible to pass on his skills, which I like to believe that he picked up in Majora's Mask, as evil would always be afoot. But depressed over people not recognizing him? No.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:55 PM
Thanatos-Zero Thanatos-Zero is a male Germany Thanatos-Zero is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

^ Nice job breaking it, princess.

While I was reading the translations, is it up to 100% certain that the Hero's Shade is indeed OoT Link's Regret?
As you were discussing about the translation, I am no longer sure, if he is what I believe him to be, namely a incarnation of Link's Regret or rather that was left out of him when he reincarnated to TP Link.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:57 PM
TheLegendofZelda30 TheLegendofZelda30 is a female TheLegendofZelda30 is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind View Post
Hmm, yeah I'm perplexed. He told me the 'it' of the last sentence is the ghost...

Plus it clearly says he is taught by the ghost of the hero of time....
You're right then. If it says the ghost, then it is the HoT. Ricecake was wrong

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanatos-Zero View Post
^ Nice job breaking it, princess.

While I was reading the translations, is it up to 100% certain that the Hero's Shade is indeed OoT Link's Regret?
As you were discussing about the translation, I am no longer sure, if he is what I believe him to be, namely a incarnation of Link's Regret or rather that was left out of him when he reincarnated to TP Link.
Two people who also translate said it was truly the HoT, not his regret. It's him.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:16 PM
The Baton of the Wind The Baton of the Wind is a male United States The Baton of the Wind is online now
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Also, we have confirmation that--indeed--Ocarina of Time's Temple of Time is located right where the Sealed Temple was once located:

Quote:
時の神殿
The Temple of Time

聖地にある光の神殿へと続く唯一の入口。太古の時代、砂漠にあった神殿と同名であるが、ラウル に造られた神 殿の埸所は、封印の神殿があった埸所にあたると思われる。
The only enterance to the Temple of Light, which is in the Holy Land. In ancient times, there was a temple which had the same name; but the location in which Rauru built the temple was where the temple of the seal allegedly was.
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---Hyrule Historia Translations -Revisited, Reviewed & Revised - Japanese Text Included---


Translations:

SS --- TWW

1...........1
2...........2
3...........3
4...........4
5...........5
Last Edited by The Baton of the Wind; 01-04-2012 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:16 PM
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanatos-Zero View Post
^ Nice job breaking it, princess.
Am I supposed to be offended?
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:52 PM
Captain Ricequake Captain Ricequake is a male Antarctica Captain Ricequake is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baton of the Wind View Post
Hmm, well he helped me on the translation of that paragraph. And here it is again, let's see... :

Hmm, yeah I'm perplexed. He told me the 'it' of the last sentence is the ghost...

Plus it clearly says he is taught by the ghost of the hero of time....
Actually, it means much more than just ghost. It can also mean apparition, departed spirit, the dead, specter, shade, etc. The root means "Spirit of the Dead," but it doesn't always apply to actual souls.

Since the official translation is "Shade", I'm assuming that it is a mere shadow of the Hero of Time rather than the actual Hero. It simply makes sense to me, not to mention the "spirit of the hero" paradox that would occur if it were the actual Hero. Plus, the fact that "it" speaks to "Link's" descendant seems suspicious to me. I don't think that the wording is unintentional.
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Last Edited by Captain Ricequake; 01-04-2012 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:56 PM
RWB RWB is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ricecake View Post
Actually, it means much more than just ghost. It can also mean apparition, departed spirit, the dead, specter, shade, etc. The root means "Spirit of the Dead," but it doesn't always apply to actual souls.

Since the official translation is "Shade", I'm assuming that it is a mere shadow of the Hero of Time rather than the actual Hero. It simply makes sense to me, not to mention the "spirit of the hero" paradox that would occur if it were the actual Hero. Plus, the fact that "it" speaks to "Link's" descendant seems suspicious to me. I don't think that the wording is unintentional.
The Spirit of the Hero doesn't necessitate reincarnation, really, just a certain heroic spirit/resolve. Just saying. I don't see that being a problem with the hero shade.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:05 PM
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big One View Post
You mean the art parts of it? Yes. All it is, is a bunch of sketches of dungeon layouts. LA only takes up a single page which sucks and there's nothing really on it whatsoever
Well LA was made after-hours and was originally a port of Alttp for the gameboy. But during development the people making it starting doing things "just for fun" and it soon turned into the LA we all know and love. In fact one of the people on the team said it felt as if they were making a parody of a zelda game instead of a real one since no one was telling them what to do and they could just do whatever "since it was just a gameboy game" and they didn't really care.

So LA wasn't planned, it was a downgraded Alttp that the developers started screwing around with in their free time. Hence the significant lack of concept art and tossed-out ideas.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:26 PM
Spoon Link Spoon Link is a male United States Spoon Link is offline
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Hyrule Historia confirms that Vaati was not sealed in The Minish Cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitterBerri
Peace returned briefly to Hyrule as Vaati was presumed killed, until he one day reappeared to terrorize the land once more. Vaati kidnapped many beautiful maidens and brought them to the Wind Palace in the sky that he had taken.

At this moment, a hero wielding the legendary sword appeared. Using the sword, he split his body in four to defeat Vaati and seal him away inside the Four Sword in the Elemental Sanctuary.

•Wind Sorcerer Vaati

No longer remembering his days as a Picori, he goes on a rampage. Manipulating the wind, he names himself The Great Wind Sorcerer Vaati and lives in the Wind Palace.

•Hero of the Four Sword

Not much is known about this person. He appears to be a descendant of the Link who defeated Vaati.

Below, in section about Four Swords:


•The Kidnapping of Princess Zelda

This time, Wind Sorcerer Vaati kidnaps Zelda because he wants a bride to commemorate his return, not because of the Light Force.
This looks like the perfect place for a new Four Swords game. I could definitely see it being made for the Wii U if Nintendo could get four Wii U controllers to work with it. (Right now it's only confirmed that two controllers will work.)

Something must have happened to the Wind Tribe if Vaati hijacked their palace and made it his fortress. Maybe Vaati turned them into the Oocca?
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:39 PM
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Perhaps the Hero's Shade isn't a separate entity per se, but rather a sort of sub-routine within the Heroic spirit. Like how Aang is the Avatar and holds the Avatar Spirit, but at the same time can communicate with previous incarnations as if they were separate people.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:40 PM
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Deku Mask = Deku Butler's Son (Hyrule Historia confirmed)

GlitterBerri Pg. 112 Turmoil in Termina (Continued)

"Link also became the form of a Deku whose soul was lost in the forest connecting Termina and Hyrule."

This confirms that the Deku Mask is the soul of the Twisted Tree, which we know to be the Deku Butler's son as it was implied by the Deku Butler visiting it during the credits.

EDIT: To clarify, what was confirmed was that the Deku Mask was the Butler's son, we already knew that the tree from the beginning was the son.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:00 PM
Nensense Nensense is a male United States Nensense is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

I thought the ending of Majora's Mask confirmed it...
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:15 PM
RWB RWB is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoshi View Post
Perhaps the Hero's Shade isn't a separate entity per se, but rather a sort of sub-routine within the Heroic spirit. Like how Aang is the Avatar and holds the Avatar Spirit, but at the same time can communicate with previous incarnations as if they were separate people.
I kinda like the Avatar styled thing there:

1. Hero's shade being the Ghost of OoT Link works, because;
despite the Avatar dying he is reborn... but as a separate person with his own "immortal soul".

2. This also makes every Link his own, as even though the "heroic spirit" may reincarnate, the soul of the individual Link's are still their own and not part of the heroic spirit.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:26 PM
Big One Big One is a male United States Big One is offline
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Re: Hyrule Historia Thread: Part II (translations by ShiKage)

So apparently Rauru and Kaepora Gaebora are confirmed to be one and the same.

Also something interesting here:

Quote:
Putting Together the History with the Pieces Currently Available
These chronicles have been put together using information that can be currently confirmed, but there are many parts that still are obscure. The history of Hyrule changes depending on time and those passing down the story, and it will continue to develop. Even if it's not largely shaken, there will be new legends born and history may be rewritten.
Last Edited by Big One; 01-04-2012 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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