MM - Did Link Really save the world?

I was reading a recent article and it just intrigued me.In this article, which is located here: Why Zelda: Majora's Mask is such a great game, the author tells the audience the reason why Majora's Mask is better than Ocarina of Time in some aspects. But the most interesting thing is his reasoning.

The characters are much more developed, he says. The main antagonist is more screwed up than Ganandorf can ever be, and the themes are much more mature than the E rating gives it.

But this particular paragraph is the reason why I'm writing this post. Take a look here:

And even if you do finish everything in Majora's Mask, there is still the issue of the other parallel universes. Let me explain.

When Link reaches that last five minutes of the third day, he can either face the Skull Kid or go back in time. When Link plays the Song of Time, he goes back to the first day. However, it is only him and Tael that go back. He leaves behind all the unsaved rupees, items, and whatever else he collected during that time interval in the "Old World".

In a full game, Link goes back in time perhaps thirty or so times, and only one of them is considered successful. If I go by this example, in all of the thirty times Link plays the Song of Time, twenty-nine of those universes have been destroyed. The Ocarina of Time doesn't revert the entirety of time back to its original state - it only brings Link back, thus opening and placing him in another parallel fabric of the universe. In exchange, he leaves his previous world to its doom. Kafei, Anju, the poor Postman, and all the world is destroyed by the moon twenty-nine times. When finally Link reaches that fabric of time he is successful, he doesn't go back in time any longer.

So, in summary, Link has failed twenty-nine times, and succeeds on the thirtieth try. The world was destroyed twenty-nine times, and saved once. Can you really say that you have reached a happy ending with this logic of time and space in mind?

So what do you all think? Is this true? And here is another snippet:

I won't delve too much into this, but notice the fates between the two fields of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. In Ocarina of Time, Hyrule was destined to be saved by link.

Termina was destined to be destroyed, and only after so many tries does Link find the one universe that can be saved. Thus, the field was named Termina - a world destined to be Terminated.

Do any of you agree with this theory? I personally have never examined Zelda to such an extent, but this person does bring up excellent points. Leave your comment below; i'd love to hear what you have to say!

Scientifically yes, but I don't think Nintendo was thinking of it that way, and it doesn't really matter anyways.

I don't think Nintendo intended a lot of things people are theorizing here lol. But it's nice to speculate.

I always thought Link rewinded time when playing the Song of Time, not going through it.

I though it was common sence, heck (for a lack of a better word) I was thinking about that same thing of the people of Termina being killed multiple times and only saved once; therefore the skull kid and Majora's Mask really did destroy the world, even more times than they imagined they could and the only one's that get saved are Link and his fairy and the thing still to be disscused is why does Link does not have multiple copies of himself and meets them when he goes back in time.

I do not trust the source which you have provided; the author assumes that his theory, not proven fact, holds water - that playing the Song of Time does not rewind time, but instead places you in a new dimension. The dimension of time is a very tricky subject, and, if one wishes to travel through time, a wormhole would be a logical place to start.

Now, what does this have to do with the Zelda universe? I believe the Song of Time acts as a wormhole, allowing the Hero of Time to enter into one part of time and reappear in a previous part of time. Doing this and fooling around wih the past is known as the Butterfly Effect: messing with one aspect of time, such as defeating a monster, only to have the area which the monster was living in to decay away. Using this logic, the Hero of Time is able to do one thing in the present(which was, prior to playing the Song of Time, the past) and impact the future(at the time of playing the Song of Time, thd present). This is why Link is able to defeat Majora's Mask without dooming other 'dimensions' of Termina. If Majora's Mask and the destruction of the world is halted in the past, new paths are constructed; all paths that previously led to the end of Termina have been redirected. Thus, regardless of how many times the Hero of Time goes back in time, the end will always be a reflection of the most previous journey through time.

The key word is time, not space. The Hero of Time uses the Song of Time to travel through time, back to a previous date, not space, to a different dimension.

Originally Posted by Linksoer

I always thought Link rewinded time when playing the Song of Time, not going through it.

I believe you are on to something.

If Link travelled through time, there would be no reason for him to be losing his rupees/items he has collected. If he rewinded time however, this would mean that he never collected those items.

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisis

I believe you are on to something.

If Link travelled through time, there would be no reason for him to be losing his rupees/items he has collected. If he rewinded time however, this would mean that he never collected those items.

I agree with this, And the only reason link has the amount of rupees in the bank when rewinding time is because the amount is stamped on his hand which doesnt change because it travels with him. So in essence, link is defrauding the bank by not really having that amount in the bank.

^Exactly.

Throughout MM we only see the Ocarina of Time do three things in a time-related sense: speed up time, fast-forward through time, and then the debatable bit where Link goes back in time. Since Link is manipulating the flow of time with the first two, doesn't it make sense that he's still manipulating the flow of time with the third effect? And if Link is altering the flow of time rather than specifically teleporting himself through time, that would lend credence to the idea of Link merely reversing the flow of time when he plays the Song of Time rather than being pulled out of it and into another parallel universe (and it is the goddess of time or the four giants who keep the Owl Statues and Boss Remains intact despite time being rewound).

You know, the author is probably wrong. In fact, I'm 99.9999% sure he's wrong. But, there are 4 sequels to OoT. Only two of them are reconciliable. The other two directly contradict each other. WW and ALttP cannot exist simultaneously unless OoT is no longer the IW if there is only two split timelines. And depending on how you interpret certain things, tKoRL either directly references MM or he refers to Link going back in time to relive his child.

Also, his theory may have merit because if we're simply rewinding time, then why don't we see multiple Links running around Termina?

Again, I'm 99.999999999% sure that he's wrong, but a tiny little part of me would like to believe it..

Maybe we don't see multiple Links running around because as the Hero Of Time and being that he alone possesses the ability to travel through the stream of time, he is not bound by those kind of physics (THAT WAS MY LAZY ANSWER)

Or perhaps Link is brought to the exact time where he first emerges from the Clock Tower after meeting the Happy Mask Salesman, AGAIN AND AGAIN. His physical form is replacing the original at the exact same moment. This seems also very implausable, but this is honestly the most convenient method to explain his time travel without relying on alternate dimensions. If he could somehow figure out exactly where and when that moment he is rewinding to took place, his could somehow "merge" into that stream of time from his own.

CONFUSING STUFF

Originally Posted by Fireheart

. The Hero of Time uses the Song of Time to travel through time, back to a previous date, not space, to a different dimension.

Well, let me point something out on why what the OP is suggesting is actually theoretically more accurate. You see, many people have the notion that time is a different entity than space. You see really time is space because when we move through time we are really just transitioning from one space to another, each one being different in a chronological way. In this way the OP is making a good point.

You see when Link goes back in time in MM he is simply returning to the beginning a specific timeline. Then, by changing the choices he made on that timeline he returned from, he creates a tangent timeline that is different. By constantly returning to that original point in time we see Link contantly creating new tangent timelines that all end in the end of Termina. On one timeline he does save the land though. The reason we don't see multiple Links running around is because there is only one Link who is in existance in each of these timelines for a short while.

Ultimatly however, the timetravel used in the Zelda games is not based in anything I know exists or could exist in our world. It's timetravel is based in magic and divine intervention and thus, as they say, "With the Goddesses, anthing is possible!"

I always pictured Link rewinding time, not transporting to a point in the past, creating an alternate timeline a la Ocarina of Time.

To make it simplistic, I imagine multiple Links running around the current region they are trying to exorcise. For example, after Link depollutes the Southern Swamp, it is the night of the third day, and Link then travels to Snowhead. Link then rewinds time. It is now dawn of the first day, and while there is one Link in Deku form in his very first cycle, one Link travelling to Southern Swamp, there is now one Link in Snowhead, aiming to bring spring back again.

Also, at the same time, there is a Link rescuing Lulu's eggs and going through the water temple, as well as a Link exorcising the haunted Ikana, (it is this Link that will go on to face Majora immediatly after). These Links, though, are ones that the Snowhead Link is not aware of, as he didn't live through those points yet. He did, however, already defeat Odolwa, so he knows that there is another Link running around the swamps while he runs around the mountains.

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisis

I believe you are on to something.

If Link travelled through time, there would be no reason for him to be losing his rupees/items he has collected. If he rewinded time however, this would mean that he never collected those items.

True, in MM, it seems the Ocarina of Time can only rewind time. Not travel through it..

But then how come when Zelda sent Link back in time in OoT using the Ocarina of Time, it didn't just "rewind"? THAT created a parallel universe. What made MM different?

Originally Posted by EMaN21354

True, in MM, it seems the Ocarina of Time can only rewind time. Not travel through it..

But then how come when Zelda sent Link back in time in OoT using the Ocarina of Time, it didn't just "rewind"? THAT created a parallel universe. What made MM different?

Exactly what I was thinking. Why wasn't the whole world rewound when Zelda sent Link back in time? This should mean that Link, everytime he uses the Song of Time, makes a new dimension or reality for example. Two counter arguements to this I can think of is one, Zelda is the one that sends Link back and may not have has much control over time has Link (the Hero of Time), two Zelda uses, correct me if I am wrong, Zeldas Lullaby to send Link back.

Originally Posted by EMaN21354

True, in MM, it seems the Ocarina of Time can only rewind time. Not travel through it..

But then how come when Zelda sent Link back in time in OoT using the Ocarina of Time, it didn't just "rewind"? THAT created a parallel universe. What made MM different?

Zelda was the leader of the seven Sages and may have possibly been aligned with time. She also played Zelda's Lullaby when sending Link back rather than the Song of Time, which may have had something to do with it.

Anyway, it's far more likely that Link is simply rewinding time in MM, especially since he is shown falling through a void filled with numerous clocks spinning counterclockwise.

I like to imagine that Termina has been shattered countless times. MM is supposed to be dark, so it fits the theme. About losing the rupees and other expendables, it could also be in order to conserve the energy of the universe (energy cannot be created or destroyed (energy = matter). And in the case of Zelda... cannot be taken from one Universe to another).

In the end it's for the player to interpret, and this is how I personally see it... whether or not it's a new universe or the same universe each time doesn't impact the overall story in the end, so we can think exactly what we want about it...

I don't think it's so much the ocarina itself that influenced time. I think that in MM, the Goddess of Time responded to the Ocarina of Time and rewound time. However, in OoT, Zelda says

As a sage, I can return you to your original time with it (the ocarina)

So, rather than the goddess of time, in this case it's Zelda's sage powers that sent Link back in Time.

So, I'm guessing Zelda only managed to teleport Link to his own time (creating another dimension), whereas the Goddess of Time, being more powerful, literally changed the flow of time itself and rewound the entire time stream.

I've always though Link rewinded through time, prevented Termina's destruction or "Termination." Link definitely did save Termina and defeat the Skull Kid AND never failed to do so.

If multiple universe/realities/timelines were created that would just wreak chaos on all the people trying put together the overall Zelda timeline.