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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-20-2012, 10:49 AM
Zyeriis Zyeriis is a male Zyeriis is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Even with the 'statement' that Termina is "a kind of parallel world that is similar and yet different from the land of Hyrule," I feel it's possible to still argue that the entire thing is just a dream conjured up by Link.

He does take a pretty nasty fall from his horse right at the start. The only inconsistency up to that point is that...he's riding a horse as a kid. We can't forget the "rabbit hole" part of the opening where Link falls down...a hole...seeing some strange things on the way down. A child-like fantasy of being 'Link in wonderland'.

Barring that, he can now wield a metal shield as though he was older. OoT he couldn't use the hyrule shield properly like he can in MM. Admittedly, this might be a weak point as the MM shield seems like a smaller version of it. Then there's the archery. Young link couldn't wield a bow in OoT. I know Links in other zelda games could, of course, but they could do a lot of things that other Links couldn't.

Then, of course, there's the characters. The mask salesman could very easily represent a type of "mad hatter" clearly being out of his mind. And, while yes, the re-using of characters is more than likely (most definitely) chalked up to cutting production time, there's no real reason why they couldn't have used this as a story aspect as well. Taking into consideration the dream theory, and the fall from Epona, I could (and am going to) argue that another aspect to the dream is that everything i jumbled up inside of Link's head. The gorons are frozen, instead of the zoras for example (it would also explain that horribly deformed Goron Chieftain). The twin witches boss from OoT are just npcs, etc. Some npcs are repurposed, while others are not, like the mailman. I don't really see how this is a counterpoint to the theory that it is in fact, a dream.

MM is also the only game that has aliens (as far as I can recall). No, we could not possibly relate that to simply being the inner workings of a child's fantasies. I mean, they're stealing cows...

Returning to the 'Link in Wonderland' thoughts, there's a few others aspects that hint toward this. For example, being able to become giant, putting the deku princess in a tiny bottle, the owl (cheshire cat?), the deku castle (queen's castle) plus deku patrols (card knights).

I could go on but, I should relent, to see if anyone has some counterpoints (or if anyone is going to bother responding at all, I know this thread is kind of old/not actively followed).
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:48 AM
Kamina Kamina is a male Austria Kamina is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

I believe even HH states it's another dimension.
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The HH states that the DT is the result if the Hero failed. In the event the Hero could fail, the DT is what would transpire. relegates it to a "what if" scenario which explicitly with that, being stated as such in the book itself. And due to the fact the hero does indeed win to open the CT and AT.
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  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-20-2012, 12:42 PM
gamer of time gamer of time is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Termina is a mirror land perhaps one of many and the Lost Woods is named the Lost Woods because of the hidden nature of these other worlds.....Termina being a mirror world is only in the twin nature of the characters being an exact replica of those in oot other than that we all experienced that these characters were not the same folk we interacted with back in Ocarina of Time...Now as for Tingle!!???? he appears in the child timeline and in the adult timeline(Link victorious)+adult timeline(Ganon victorious)
majoras mask,wind waker,oracle of ages.......
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Colin11 Colin11 is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

People just can't accept that Nintendo reused the characters models to cut time and spending so they could release another Zelda title for the n64 following the huge success that was OoT. It was a business decision to make money off a opportunity.

Then Nintendo told us it is a parallel universe to give a "justification" as to why the characters look the same. A way to cover their arse's so to speak.


Let me put it this way, if Majoras Mask was made today but the only difference is that Nintendo decided to make new character models for everyone. No one would say the worlds are parallel, even Nintendo themselves probably would not have stated that. The statement was made as "explaination" as to why the characters look the same. If the game had entirely new character models Nintendo would have likely stated something like, "Link traveled to the Lands of Termina in order to search for a long lost friend."
Last Edited by Colin11; 01-20-2012 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Yoshirama Australia Yoshirama is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

As much as mm could be a dream i don't want to believe it is, it is a kind of parallel universe ahead of time with technology but not with people.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:01 AM
GwJumpman GwJumpman is a male United States GwJumpman is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin11 View Post
People just can't accept that Nintendo reused the characters models to cut time and spending so they could release another Zelda title for the n64 following the huge success that was OoT. It was a business decision to make money off a opportunity.

Then Nintendo told us it is a parallel universe to give a "justification" as to why the characters look the same. A way to cover their arse's so to speak.


Let me put it this way, if Majoras Mask was made today but the only difference is that Nintendo decided to make new character models for everyone. No one would say the worlds are parallel, even Nintendo themselves probably would not have stated that. The statement was made as "explaination" as to why the characters look the same. If the game had entirely new character models Nintendo would have likely stated something like, "Link traveled to the Lands of Termina in order to search for a long lost friend."
None of that matters. You can't look at a game's story or lore and say, "Well, it's like this because they were lazy and made it this way. If it was made today, it'd be different."

That fact of the matter is that Termina is a mirror world. It doesn't matter if the reason they took that path was time restrictions; that's just how it is.
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  #27 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 12:12 AM
LuminaForce37 LuminaForce37 is a male United States LuminaForce37 is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin11 View Post
People just can't accept that Nintendo reused the characters models to cut time and spending so they could release another Zelda title for the n64 following the huge success that was OoT. It was a business decision to make money off a opportunity.

Then Nintendo told us it is a parallel universe to give a "justification" as to why the characters look the same. A way to cover their arse's so to speak.


Let me put it this way, if Majoras Mask was made today but the only difference is that Nintendo decided to make new character models for everyone. No one would say the worlds are parallel, even Nintendo themselves probably would not have stated that. The statement was made as "explaination" as to why the characters look the same. If the game had entirely new character models Nintendo would have likely stated something like, "Link traveled to the Lands of Termina in order to search for a long lost friend."
I'm almost positive that if Nintendo WERE to remake Majora's Mask, they would not completely overhaul the character designs. They would be new models, but they would be the same characters, and would look almost exactly the same.
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  #28 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 12:14 AM
bret_owen99 bret_owen99 is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

I loved the fact that it re-used characters we knew from OOT, but in this game we got to interact with them so much more. There is more character development in this game than in any Zelda game since (IMO). No other game gives us 3 days where characters change, grow, and interact with each other so much.

As far as it being a dream, next thing you know, you'll tell me that Christmas Land isn't real. But there were objects so peculiar they were not to be believed, all around things to tantalize my brain. It's a world unlike anything I've ever seen, and as hard as I try, I can't seem to describe, like a most improbable dream....
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  #29 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 12:19 AM
An Hero of Time An Hero of Time is a female United States An Hero of Time is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

^^^ Except Hyrule Historia has officially confirmed that Termina is a parallel dimension. Not a dream.

The dream theory sounds so much more interesting and in-depth, but whatever. Not canon.
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  #30 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Zyeriis Zyeriis is a male Zyeriis is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

No one wants to argue that "a kind of parallel dimension" could very well be a dream world? Remember, I can claim this just as easily as some one else can claim that meant "mirror world".

Has there been an official translation of HH? I wasn't aware there had been. Translation are hardly always perfect re-interpretations of what was actually said. And, to me, "another dimension" is far too vague to be a counter to the theory that it's a dream.

"A kind of parallel world".
Last Edited by Zyeriis; 01-21-2012 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 11:42 AM
Kamina Kamina is a male Austria Kamina is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis View Post
No one wants to argue that "a kind of parallel dimension" could very well be a dream world? Remember, I can claim this just as easily as some one else can claim that meant "mirror world".

Has there been an official translation of HH? I wasn't aware there had been. Translation are hardly always perfect re-interpretations of what was actually said. And, to me, "another dimension" is far too vague to be a counter to the theory that it's a dream.

"A kind of parallel world".
Official translation? So it's not enough when someone translates something?
HH States it is another Dimension, done.
A dream is not another dimension, or a parallel world but a series of mental images and emotions occurring while sleeping.
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Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
The HH states that the DT is the result if the Hero failed. In the event the Hero could fail, the DT is what would transpire. relegates it to a "what if" scenario which explicitly with that, being stated as such in the book itself. And due to the fact the hero does indeed win to open the CT and AT.
Last Edited by Kamina; 01-21-2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-21-2012, 12:07 PM
bret_owen99 bret_owen99 is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Ok, I'm going to get all "Philosophical" up in here. How do we know that dreams are not really parallel worlds? I mean, everytime we dream, we are just entering a different world that actually exists, or is willed into existence because of the dream. So arguing that it is a dream would be the same as arguing it is a parallel world, because they could be the same.

'I dreamt I was a butterfly.
I couldn't tell if I was dreaming, but when I woke
I was I and not a butterfly.
Was I dreaming that I was a butterfly?
Or was the butterfly dreaming that it was me?
Even if there's a difference between the butterfly and I
the distinction isn't absolute.
And there is no relationship of cause and effect.
-Soshi
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:27 PM
evelmiina evelmiina is a female Finland evelmiina is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by bret_owen99 View Post
Ok, I'm going to get all "Philosophical" up in here. How do we know that dreams are not really parallel worlds? I mean, everytime we dream, we are just entering a different world that actually exists, or is willed into existence because of the dream. So arguing that it is a dream would be the same as arguing it is a parallel world, because they could be the same.

'I dreamt I was a butterfly.
I couldn't tell if I was dreaming, but when I woke
I was I and not a butterfly.
Was I dreaming that I was a butterfly?
Or was the butterfly dreaming that it was me?
Even if there's a difference between the butterfly and I
the distinction isn't absolute.
And there is no relationship of cause and effect.
-Soshi
If you start thinking with this kind of existential philosophy, you could start speculating pretty much ANY game being a dream of another entity.

Personally I didn't feel MM suggested the events of the game being a dream in the end (thinking of the carving Skullkid made in treestump). It specifically aimed to make the player think "is it just a dream, or I wish it's just a dream because it's so obscure" but if the answer was yes, it would make it just Link's imagination. I at least would feel disappointed, the conclusion of "it was just a dream" just nullifies everything, I hardly ever find it satisfying ending. It feels too easy. But I suppose the player can draw whatever conclusion they like.

I support MM's events and realm not being a dream because I hope there is some hint of connection with Twili /shadow tribe in MM.
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  #34 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Zyeriis Zyeriis is a male Zyeriis is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
Official translation? So it's not enough when someone translates something?
HH States it is another Dimension, done.
A dream is not another dimension, or a parallel world but a series of mental images and emotions occurring while sleeping.
Official or not, translations aren't perfect, unofficial translations, just more likely to be less so. Never heard of the phrase "lost in translation"?

Also, you're arguing against a theory with another theory/opinion. If only saying something as though it were fact, made it a fact, then I'd be rich.

Anyway, it's clear you're completely adverse to even discussing this. Which is why I'm even here, to discuss it, not to prove it (or in your case, adamantly try to deny it as a theory). I forgot this was internet, apologies, there's no room on the internet for discussion, only pointless arguing and overly aggressive opinion-is-fact a-thons.

In the end, you're just denying possibility. The possibility that it, Majora's Mask as a whole, was in some way the inner workings of Link's subconscious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evelmiina View Post
If you start thinking with this kind of existential philosophy, you could start speculating pretty much ANY game being a dream of another entity.
While true, there's at least some more direct basis for this line of thought within the game in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evelmiina View Post
Personally I didn't feel MM suggested the events of the game being a dream in the end (thinking of the carving Skullkid made in treestump). It specifically aimed to make the player think "is it just a dream, or I wish it's just a dream because it's so obscure" but if the answer was yes, it would make it just Link's imagination. I at least would feel disappointed, the conclusion of "it was just a dream" just nullifies everything, I hardly ever find it satisfying ending. It feels too easy. But I suppose the player can draw whatever conclusion they like.

I support MM's events and realm not being a dream because I hope there is some hint of connection with Twili /shadow tribe in MM.
Hmm, I feel the opposite, I feel the game would make more sense if it was indeed a dream of some sort on Link's part. The imagination of an otherwise voiceless hero. If it was, as the theory suggests, a dream, it would make MM the only game where we actually have some clue as to what goes on within Link's head. And if the game would be any indication, Link had some "problems" after his fight against Ganon. The time traveling thing likely wouldn't have helped.
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  #35 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-22-2012, 08:54 PM
An Hero of Time An Hero of Time is a female United States An Hero of Time is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis View Post
Official or not, translations aren't perfect, unofficial translations, just more likely to be less so. Never heard of the phrase "lost in translation"?

Also, you're arguing against a theory with another theory/opinion. If only saying something as though it were fact, made it a fact, then I'd be rich.
... Except multiple translators have translated Hyrule Historia, and all of them are confirming that Termina is indeed a parallel dimension and nothing more. So unless if Nintendo decides to retcon this in the future, this is going to remain canon.

I'm Sorry; I really love the dream theory too. I think it makes a lot of sense and it would really add a whole other layer of depth to the game, as well as Link's character. ...But it isn't true. The games (and the timeline for that matter,) were never as deep as fans made them out to be.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:27 PM
Kamina Kamina is a male Austria Kamina is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis View Post
Official or not, translations aren't perfect, unofficial translations, just more likely to be less so. Never heard of the phrase "lost in translation"?
Look at 'An Hero of Time's' Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis View Post
Also, you're arguing against a theory with another theory/opinion. If only saying something as though it were fact, made it a fact, then I'd be rich.
This...
Quote:
A dream is not another dimension, or a parallel world but a series of mental images and emotions occurring while sleeping.
...is not an opinion, nor a theory it's called science. It's fact that when we dream or brain works off emotions and experiences that happened during the day.
For example, I watched the movie "The Time Travelers Wife" yesterday evening. This night it haunted my mind, especially because the movie was very emotional.
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Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
The HH states that the DT is the result if the Hero failed. In the event the Hero could fail, the DT is what would transpire. relegates it to a "what if" scenario which explicitly with that, being stated as such in the book itself. And due to the fact the hero does indeed win to open the CT and AT.
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  #37 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-23-2012, 03:28 AM
Zyeriis Zyeriis is a male Zyeriis is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
This...
...is not an opinion, nor a theory it's called science. It's fact that when we dream or brain works off emotions and experiences that happened during the day.
For example, I watched the movie "The Time Travelers Wife" yesterday evening. This night it haunted my mind, especially because the movie was very emotional.
Science is the forming and testing of theories. You cannot have science without theory. I have yet to see/hear of a scientific law created regarding dreams. Also, no one knows where dreams originate within the brain. So, theoretically, dreams could be windows into other dimensions. Which window opened, dependent upon the "emotion and experiences that happened during the day". While I'm not an oneirologist, I am fully aware of what has and has not been proven within the field. And definitive proof as to what dreams completely are, has not been found. It is still mostly theory. If it wasn't, then there would be no more need to study dreams.

Dreams contain the possibility of being windows to parallel dimensions, or themselves, parallel dimensions mustered up by the "emotions and experiences that happened during the day" by the subconscious. A world in one person's head that bends to their will and the forces that bend that will. The subconscious could possibly be a dimension that runs parallel to the dimension it is bridged with via said person.

Definition of dimension for clarification's sake.
Dimension | Define Dimension at Dictionary.com

I'm not going further than that, because deeply arguing, in a derailingly manner, scientific theory is not why I posted here, about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero of Time View Post
... Except multiple translators have translated Hyrule Historia, and all of them are confirming that Termina is indeed a parallel dimension and nothing more. So unless if Nintendo decides to retcon this in the future, this is going to remain canon.
Which translation claimed that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero of Time View Post
I'm Sorry; I really love the dream theory too. I think it makes a lot of sense and it would really add a whole other layer of depth to the game, as well as Link's character. ...But it isn't true. The games (and the timeline for that matter,) were never as deep as fans made them out to be.
Well no argument on the last line at least.
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  #38 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-23-2012, 05:56 AM
Kamina Kamina is a male Austria Kamina is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

I dont even know where to begin...
Your fiew is wrong in so many ways...


Fact is, HH states Termina is a parallel world, which in the classic sense means another dimension that you can or can not enter though a sort of portal.
Everything else, like if dreams are links to other dimensions, is just philosophical speculation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDecimal View Post
The HH states that the DT is the result if the Hero failed. In the event the Hero could fail, the DT is what would transpire. relegates it to a "what if" scenario which explicitly with that, being stated as such in the book itself. And due to the fact the hero does indeed win to open the CT and AT.
Last Edited by Kamina; 01-23-2012 at 05:57 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-23-2012, 06:51 AM
Xehanort Xehanort is a male Portugal Xehanort is offline
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Re: Majoras Mask Theories

I see everyone questioning if it's a parallel world or dream (the manual and HH say parallel world, so no dream), but let me make a simple question that I never understood...

How the hell did he got there anyway?

Sorry if I sounded like a complete nOOb, It's just something I never knew how xD
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:06 AM
Yoshirama Australia Yoshirama is offline
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majorias mask - yoshiramas theory

Okay I am not good at this and do not aim to be. This is my first go at creating a theory or what ever.

Anyway there has been a lot of theories lately about MM being link in a psychotic state or in some type of dream. I for one do not by this theory/theories.

I believe link stumbled upon this "parallel" universe through magic, Kind of like narnia(hyrule universe is very magical so hear me out). There is some connection between the two worlds and as link was looking for navi he just happened to stumble across it.

As stupid as it may sound that is what I believe and, many probably do as well.
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