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View Poll Results: Which of these apply to you?
I believe in a split timeline 176 85.02%
I believe in a linear timeline 22 10.63%
I believe in a timeline with more than one split or merge 46 22.22%
I believe The Minish Cap is the first game in the timeline, sans SS 57 27.54%
I believe Ocarina of Time is the first game in the timeline, sans SS 79 38.16%
I believe another game is first in the timeline 16 7.73%
I place most games on the Adult Timeline, after ST 34 16.43%
I place most games on the Child Timeline, after TP 68 32.85%
I believe Ocarina of Time is the Seal War 54 26.09%
I believe the Seal War is a separate event not taking place in any game 93 44.93%
I only believe the main series Zelda games are canon 89 43.00%
I believe some games such as Ancient Stone Tablets and Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland are canon 32 15.46%
I believe every Zelda product made or licensed by Nintendo is canon, including mangas 19 9.18%
I consider myself a new theorist 101 48.79%
I consider myself an old theorist 70 33.82%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2011, 03:45 PM
Captain Ricequake Captain Ricequake is a male Antarctica Captain Ricequake is offline
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Timeline Compilation 2.0 Alpha

Version 1.0 can be found HERE.

This thread is to make a compilation of people's timelines (all of them). In other words, post all the theories you've had for the timeline, followed by a brief explanation (if possible). Here's my example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Example
Timeline A
SS-TMC-FS/FSA-OoT-TWW/PH-ST-LoZ/AoL
_______________\MM-TP-ALttP/LA-OoX

You know how Ganon used Agahnim as a medium? What if OoT Ganondorf was FSA Ganon's medium? If that was true, then LoZ Ganon must be in the AT because of the mostly flooded map. ALttP takes place in OoT Hyrule, so CT. OoX is a matter of opinion.

Timeline B
SS-OoT-TWW/PH-ST
____\MM-TP-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL

Standard Theorist Timeline. No explanation needed.

Timeline C- Developer Timeline
_______________/OoT-TWW/PH-ST
SS-TMC-FS/FSA-OoT-ALttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL
_______________\OoT-MM-TP

My version of the Developer's Timeline. Not much explanation needed here, though it is really weird.
Please, NO questions or debates in this thread. Save them for other threads.

Happy posting!
__________________
"Maana Mungu aliupenda ulimwengu hivi hata akamtoa Mwana wake wa pekee, ili kila amwaminiye asipotee, bali awe na uzima wa milele." ~Yohana 3:16
Last Edited by Captain Ricequake; 12-05-2011 at 08:58 AM. Reason:
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:32 PM
Beemnorv Beemnorv is a male Canada Beemnorv is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Alright, if you want a list of all my timelines, you've got it!

When I first started theorising in 2006(-ish), a friend of mine and I built this timeline:

OoT/MM/OoX/LA/LoZ/AoL/ALttP/TMC/FS/FSATPTWW/PH

Here's how my friend explained it all:
Quote:
1.) OoT – It’s the first time Ganondorf is ever mentioned. This is when the sages are actually appointed to their positions. First time Hyrule is attacked. No other Hero(es) are mentioned/exist yet. Wind Waker also refers to the Hero of Time as the first and that he appeared when Ganon first attacked Hyrule.
2.) MM – It’s the direct sequel to OoT.
3.) OoS – Link is returning from his journey (MM’s direct sequel).
4.) OoA – After saving Holodorum, the Goddesses/Triforce transport Link to the land protected by Nayru. Is interchangeable with Seasons. Ganon is revived by Twinrova (Koume & Kotake). It’s the same Zelda from OoT (as seen in the video/ending). Link has gained After, Link leaves Hyrule by boat, because the Goddesses/Triforce guided him; the Triforces turned into birds and led the way.
5.) LA – It opens with Link on a boat in the middle of a nasty storm; the boat is struck by lightning and Link is knocked unconscious. At the end, Link awakens the Wind Fish, to find he is alive and tied to a piece of the mast. He eventually ends up on the shores of Hyrule, alive.
6.) LoZ – It says that the Hero rose up, from the people to save Hyrule and Princess Zelda. This means that Link returned lived in Hyrule for however long and then, after Ganon snatched Zelda for his diabolical plan, Link rose up to combat the Darkness, being the Hero. Link has been expecting this, since he did it 7 years ago in OoT.
7.) AoL – Ganon, before he is destroyed, casts a spell on Zelda, putting her into a never-ending slumber. Link goes on an adventure to find a way to revive Zelda.
8.) ALttP – (It could come before LoZ; probably not) After saving Zelda from the spell Link goes to live with his uncle/grandfather for a while, and all is peaceful. Ends with the Palace of the Four Sword, which Link uses to lock a chest that contains all the evils of the world inside it.
9.) TMC – Vaati goes bad, breaks the Four Sword (Pikiri Blade) releasing all of the evil back into the world. Vaati is sealed within the Four Sword.
10.) FS – Vaati breaks free. Link seals him, once again, into the Four Sword.
11.) FSA – Vaati breaks free, because Link pulled out the Four Sword to defeat Shadow/Dark Link. Link destroys Vaati and Ganon.
12.) TP – New Link, 100’s of years after FSA. Link kills Ganondorf (supposedly).
13.) TWW – Ganondorf has returned and a new Link must stop him. Link kills Ganondorf (turned to stone), Hyrule is forever destroyed and Tetra (Zelda) and Link set out to find a ‘new Hyrule.’
14.) PH – Tetra is captured by the Ghost Ship and Link wakes up on some unknown island. Link destroys Bellum and returns the Ocean King (Wind Fish) to normal and rescues Zelda/Tetra.
Yeah, the split timeline theory was completely unheard of to us and it never crossed our minds until I brought up the theory after a while of finding out that there were actually other people that had timeline theories via YouTube. I payed close attention to Trueedge2097 for his linearist ideas and to Lancun for his interesting splitist ideas. However, when I told my friend about the split theory and how much more sense it made, he flatly denied it, saying it was ridiculous. Yes, this is when I was very much a noob. Eventually, I decided that we should stop theorising, so we did. Then I moved away to a new place.

In mid-2009, I got extremely bored, so I got curious and began looking around the Internet for the latest advancements in timeline theorising. I soon realised how terrible YouTube theorists were, so I moved on and briefly lurked at whatever forums showed up on my Google searches. That's when I came across ZU and built this timeline as soon as I got here:

Heavy-CT Timeline
TMC - OoT - TWW/PH
............\MM - TPFS/FSAALttP/LALoZ/AoLOoX

SS wasn't announced yet and neither was ST. TMC was first because it made sense with all its origin stories and the like. FS/FSA was after TP because I thought FSA "revived" Ganondorf after his death in TP, and it seemed to take place in Old Hyrule. FSA led into ALttP because FSA seemed like it was a new Seal War. OoX was after LoZ/AoL because of the completed Triforce being in Hyrule Castle and the Triforce mark thing. All the 2D games were after TP because I did not believe that there was any evidence whatsoever of a "New Hyrule" being founded after TWW/PH.

Then I got pretty influenced by the theorist, River Zora, and sort of copied his timeline, but with a few tweaks of my own. I noticed parallels between certain games that can potentially be on the AT and certain games that could potentially be in the CT.

Parallel Split Timeline
OoT - TWW/PH - ST - FS/FSA - LoZ/AoL
..\MM - TP ------ OoX ---------- ALttP/LA

I was uncertain about TMC's placement, but TWW seemed to parallel TP, ST seemed to parallel OoX, FSA seemed to parallel the Seal War (which I placed between OoX and ALttP), and LoZ seemed to parallel ALttP. OoX and ALttP went on the CT because of the Master Sword, and the AT parallels went where they were because of the lack of the Master Sword.

Then after a while, I read some of Lex's articles on ZI and was convinced to believe his timeline theory:

Traditional Heavy-AT Timeline
OoT - TWW/PH - ST - TMC - LoZ/AoL - OoX - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA
..\MMTP/LCT

The only adjustment I made was to move TMC to between ST and LoZ and to believe LCT to be canon to the timeline. The basis of this timeline was the 1998 Miyamoto Order (before the 1999 quote was dug up). TWW then came in between OoT and LoZ to solve the inconsistencies... sort of. ST and TMC further solved the plot holes by introducing a New Hyrule and setting up for some of the elements present in LoZ (origins in TMC). OoX was placed between AoL and FSA because of the "Ganon's spirit is brought back to Hyrule by Twinrova and is now free to find a new body" theory, setting up for FSA Ganondorf. FSA then leads into ALttP and Ganon is killed for good at the end.

Then, once the "1999 Miyamoto Order" and "ALttP/OoX/LA" quotes were found, I attempted to create a timeline based purely on developer quotes:

Developer Quote Timeline
TMCFS/FSAOoTTWW/PHSTALttP/OoX/LALoZ/AoL
................................\MMTP/LCT

The placements are self-explanatory: it's what (I thought) the developers said. The 2D games were placed after ST because they didn't make sense between OoT and TWW, but the developers did pretty much say that they were on the AT in some way.

This timeline was short-lived though. FSA being before OoT just doesn't make a whole lot of sense and is difficult to support. My solution was to move the FSS to after ST.

New Heavy-AT Timeline
SS - OoT - TWW/PH - ST - SW - TMC - FS/FSA - ALttP/OoX/BSLoZ/LA/AST - LoZ/AoL
..........\MM - TP/LCT

The Seal War is between ST and TMC because I thought it fit the gap between ST and TMC. The War of the Bound Chest also fit as a nice "aftermath" of the Seal War. The reason I did this was that FSA set up for LoZ better than it did for ALttP, yet FSA makes more sense chronologically before ALttP (not after). So I had two Ganons existing at the same time: one sealed in the Sacred Realm from the Seal War to ALttP, and one sealed in the Four Sword from FSA to LoZ. I also just began to consider BS LoZ and AST as canon.

However, I didn't like how certain points in history repeated themselves on the timeline to such a ridiculous extent (OoT and the Seal War and FSA, etc.), so I began to experiment with new possibilities to create new theories that allow for a timeline to follow developer intent more closely.

Alternate Reality Timelines
3D Timeline:
SS - OoT - TWW/PH - ST
..........\MM - TP/LCT

2D Timeline:
SW - TMC - FS/FSA - ALttP/OoX/BSLoZ/LA/AST - LoZ/AoL

Here I had split the timeline into two: the split timeline of the 3D games, and the linear timeline of the 2D games. It made sense, and even still had my "SW - TMC" theory. But having two separate timelines just didn't seem right to me. That's when I noticed some of the parallels I could draw between the games (again).

Predetermined Future Timeline
................./TWW/PHSTTMCFS/FSALoZ/AoL
SSOoT ALttP/OoX/BSLoZ/LA/AST
..........\MMTP/LCT

ALttP was the predetermined future before Zelda sent Link back in time at the end of OoT and caused ALttP to turn into the events leading up to the Great Flood. The FSS followed after ST and LoZ/AoL followed after that for reasons previously stated. It still didn't seem right though, so I thought hard and found more parallels.

Predestined Future Timeline
................./TWW/NT/PHSTTMCFS/FSA
SSOoT ALttP/OoX/BSLoZ/LA/AST – LoZ/AoL
..........\MMTP/LCT

Ah, the good old Predestined Future Theory. While its name is synonymous with the previous theory, I gave it what I thought to be a better name once a made a few adjustments to it. I found the parallels between ALttP and the events leading up to the Great Flood, and the parallels between LoZ/AoL and TWW. I fixed my Predetermined Future Theory to include LoZ/AoL as part of the predetermined/predestined future or "what was supposed to happen had the land not flooded after ALttP." I also considered Navi Trackers as canon.

Then I noticed the parallels between the FSS and the beginning of the timeline and what we know of SS so far, so I concluded the FSS to fall on their own version of the timeline.

Predestined Future - Alternate Reality Timelines Hybrid Theory
................./TWW/NT/PHST
SSOoT ALttP/OoX/BSLoZ/LA/AST – LoZ/AoL
..........\MMTP/LCT
TMCFS/FSA

Noticing the unlikelihood of having both a Predestined Future and an Alternate Reality and questioning why I shouldn't just revert back to the Alternate Reality Timelines Theory with this logic, I took the next most logical approach, which was similar to Lex's legends theory, as I wanted to maintain the game parallels and take advantage of how easy it is to support.

Legendary Era: SS - OoT | Alternate Legends: TMC - FS/FSA
Predestined Legends: ALttP/OoX/LA/AST - LoZ/AoL
Adult Timeline: TWW/NT/PH - ST | Child Timeline: MM- TP/LCT

The Legendary Era and the Alternate Legends are story parallels of each other. The Predestined Legends, the Adult Timeline, and the Child Timeline are also all story parallels of each other. This theory follows everything that is confirmed and has pretty much no contradictions to known developer intent, so everything is placed where it is because that's what the developers have said. I also took BS LoZ off the timeline because it really has nothing to do with Hyrule's legends as it does not take place in Hyrule nor does it have any important characters from there. It's still canon though.

Then I took this theory to the next level by categorizing the eras of Hyrule's history to be a bit more clear as to where every legend comes from on the timeline. The timeline is this:

Progressive Legends Theory
Prolonged Wars - Great Cataclysm - Reconstruction

This timeline is naturally pretty linear, rather than literally split, and basically suggests that the games are a series of legends and stories that follow one single timeline of events. The Prolonged Wars legends consist of all the wars since Creation having to do with gaining power and taking over Hyrule, from the Interlopers to the Seal War, and includes:

TMC - FS/FSA

SS - OoT

SS - MM/Ganon's Execution

The Great Cataclysm legends consist of the stories of Ganon breaking out of his seal from the Prolonged Wars legends and proceeding to terrorize Hyrule with the Triforce of Power. This includes:

ALttP/LA/AST - LoZ backstory

Events leading up to the Great Flood

TP/LCT

Lastly, the Reconstruction legends deal with all stories having to do with the reconstruction of the Kingdom of Hyrule after the Great Cataclysm. This includes:

LoZ/AoL - OoX/LA

Great Flood - TWW/NT/PH - ST

(At the beginning of the LoZ parallel, the Great Flood, Ganon is sealed again inside a frozen Hyrule, so the remainder of the LoZ parallel is essentially postponed until TWW. ST and OoX are parallel because they both focus on two villains trying to resurrect an ancient Demon King into Zelda's body. LA can also go after OoX just as much as it is able to go after ALttP.)

In a more conventional timeline format, the Progressive Legends Theory looks more like this:

OoT - ALttP/LA/AST - LoZ/AoL - OoX/LA
SS - OoT - TWW/NT/PH - ST
..........\MM - TP
TMC - FS/FSA

Most stories of the Prolonged Wars can lead to most stories of the Great Cataclysm and most stories of the Great Cataclysm can lead to most stories of Reconstruction. Some stories can even connect in a more complicated manner than that, like skipping stories or even taking out single pieces of certain arcs.

And that's the timeline theory I currently believe.

There's my list of timeline theories, and a little theorist biography as well, since it seemed relevant. Apologies for the length.
__________________
The Legend of Zelda
......................................../ ---- GS ------ GF - TWW/WotS --- ST
SS - TMC - FS - [OoT] - ALttP/OoX - GR --- LoZ/AoL
...............................\ ---------- TP ------ FSA
Last Edited by Beemnorv; 08-21-2011 at 10:10 AM. Reason:
2 people liked this post: spktb11, xRallinkx
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:46 AM
GrimmyV GrimmyV is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

I probably shouldn't publish an account of how my views on the timeline had changed, especially since it goes back to the days when the number of Zelda games could be counted on a shop teachers good hand. Oh those were the days, when Link and Zelda still appeared in cartoon form from time to time, and Nintendo games were making the leap into 16 bits.

It was during this time that something was bothering me. There seemed to be a few inconsistencies in the Zelda Trilogy (as it would have logically been called). It was bad enough that when I reread the manuals to figure out what was going on that there were different Zeldas running around, but the naming tradition seemed to be a pretty logical reason for more than one Zelda to exist. However the occurance of ALttP featured what must have been a precursor to LoZ Link (or who I considered to be the Real Link, excuse me princess and all). This rubbed me the wrong way because multiple Links was something of a blasphamy; when you play Mario, you expect it to be the same guy in every game. I (and I would wager most everyone playing Zelda at that time) wanted Link to be the same as well, but it was all too obvious that ALttP was indeed a 'new Link'. What's worse is that Ganon is totally destroyed in ALttP, yet LoZ shows Ganon alive and well untill that Link kills him there too. And ALttP was surely chronologically before LoZ because everyone just knew that it did. Or did it?

Anyway, in the early 90's (BI, before internets) I came to an uneasy view that LoZ/AoL and ALttP weren't quite in the same continuity. LA appeared and didn't impact anything as far as I was concerned, and after a awhile I didn't care too much about Nintendo games because TIE Fighter and other computer games were so much cooler. And of course I totally missed the CDi games, but that was appearantly a blessing.

It wasn't untill 97-98 when I discovered Zelda Headquarters that I started to seriously consider what the Zelda Timeline really was. At that time theorists tried to fit everything in one continuity, including the cartoons, comics and even the CDi 'masterpieces'. It was at this time that I first became aware of the true oddities of the original game manuals, including some downright lies and inaccuracies. And of course there was a game called OoT released at this time. And things have never been the same.

Single Link people were still trying to make it work untill TWW. Some folks (including I) realized that OoT didn't quite match up with ALttP's backstory for the Imprisoning War and questioned the prevailing conventional wisdom. I dropped in and out of the Theorizing scene for years and ended up on the Hylia for a while torn between the increasingly popular Split Timeline theory and Linearism until I came around to the concensus. Since then there's been about a new Zelda game a year, and the timeline has never been more confusing, with even the developers admitting that they sometimes don't know what's going on.

And now I'm haunting this place, and after all that time I've come to the conclusion that theorists have to admit to themselvs 'what is it that you want?'. Are you looking for the one true logical order? (which doesn't exist, at least not literally) Are you hoping to emulate the Devoper's Master Timeline Document? (a worthy goal, but unconfirmable until it's published) Or are you simply hoping to find something to believe in so you can sleep at night? (probably the real goal of all of us)

I'm leaning to something resembling Beemnorv's timeline, except that it would include a rather large document that shows all the connections between all games with no concern to literal chronology. For instance AoL contains towns that are named for the OoT sages. AoL also connects directly with LoZ as a sequel. PH also has a Maze Island that may be the same as in AoL. The Sleeping Zelda story implies that this was the very first Zelda predating all Zeldas in all other games. Impa's family has existed for generations, as seen in OoT and OoX. The Triforce was held by the Royal Family, so any game that satisfies this prerequisite can occur before the backstory, despite the SZ story.

So as you can see, this would be less of a timeline theory and more of a collection of listings of the various ways the games connect reguardless of any logical inconsistencies. This is because there is no logical way a literally interpreted and totally consistent timeline can constructed. Is this 'giving up'? Probably, but then I've been at this for way too long, and without Nintendo releasing games that specifically address all these problems (most likely through massive retcons) or releasing the actual Master Timeline, I will not bang my head against a wall trying to fit 15 square pegs into 2 or 3 round holes.

So as far as I'm concerned, the timeline is:
SS-OoT-TWW/PH-ST

OoT/MM-TP

LoZ/AoL

OoT-ALttP/OoX/LA

TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP

with a whole bunch of noncanon stuff thrown in as well. Then to fully document the connection I would have to show lines connectiing it all throughout the smaller continuities. Cayenne Pepper's timeline diagram actually looks like that if I'm not mistaken.

This topic is provoking alot of really long posts. Wow.
  #4 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-23-2011, 09:18 AM
Elwood Elwood is a male United States Elwood is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Well, I haven't been in the timeline charades nearly as long as the guys who've posted above me, but I've had my share of theories.

My First Theory
--------------------/WW/PH-ST-LoZ/AoL
MC-FS/FSA-OoT
--------------------\MM-TP-ALttP/OoX/LA

This was back before Skyward Sword was even announced, sometime in 2009 I think. I thought that MC was first because it showed the country of Hyrule at its smallest, and featured areas that were never seen again. I also believed that geographically, ST and LoZ matched up well enough to have some connection on the timeline.

Even Theory
-----/WW/PH-ST-MC-FS/FSA
OoT
-----\MM-TP-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-OoX

This theory tried to even out the timelines, so that each had an equal history. Not much to say about this one.

Washed Abroad Theory
---------/WW-PH-(LA)-ST
--------/ALttP/LA/
SS-OoT
--------\MM-TP-LoZ/AoL-OoX

One of my more interesting theories. In this AT, WW and ALttP occur as parallel events. When LA occurs, Link wakes up not in the ocean he shipwrecked in, but its location in the Great Sea, on the other AT. He then finds New Hyrule. This one is a bit fan-ficcy.

Another Weird Theory
-------WW/PH-ST
-------/-MC-FS/FSA-ALttP/OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL
SS-OoT
-------\
------MM-TP

This is basically the Predestined Future Theory. Only difference being there's a sort of "what-if" split on the AT, which depends on whether or not a hero rises to stop Ganon when he returns after OoT.

My Current Theory
----------------------/WW/PH-ST
(MC)-SS-(MC)-OoT
----------------------\MM-TP-(MC)-FS/FSA-ALttP/OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL

Your standard Child Heavy Timeline. I see possibility for MC to go before OoT still, so that's why its placement isn't decided on yet.

And these are my timelines.
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:15 AM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Theorists of ZU 2.0




Inventor of the Double ALttP Theory:

......tWW-PH---tMC-FS-FSA---ALttP-LA
..../
OoT
.....\
.......MM---TP---LoZ-AoL---OoX---ALttP
__________________
Last Edited by Hombre de Mundo; 04-23-2011 at 10:28 AM. Reason:
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:07 AM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

First timeline (before TMC came out)-
Child: OoT-MM/FS/FSA*-LttP/OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL
Adult: OoT-TWW

*At the time, I thought FSA was the story of Ganondorf on the Child Timeline. Obviously TP eventually came along to tell this story.

Wise Men linear timeline (before TP came out)-
OoT/MM-TP*-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL

*At the time, it was believed that TP would fall between OoT and TWW, based on an earlier interview.

Miyamoto timeline (later learned to be mistranslated*)-
Child: OoT/MM-TP
Adult: OoT-TWW/PH-ST-LoZ/AoL-OoX-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/LA

*The original "Miyamoto Order" known in Western circles went OoT-LoZ/AoL-LttP. This timeline was an attempt to embrace that order and reject the idea that Miyamoto is a crackpot old fool who doesn't care about the timeline.

Miyamoto timeline (based on correct translation*)-
Child: OoT/MM-TP
Adult: OoT-TWW/PH-ST-TMC-FS/FSA-LttP/OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL

*As it turns out, Miyamoto's timeline was correct after all, just mistranslated.

Legends timeline-
Classic Stories: LttP/OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL
Ancient Stories: SS-OoT*
Child Stories: MM-TP
Adult Stories: TWW/PH-ST
Four Sword Stories: TMC-FS/FSA**

*Originally began to tell the lore of LttP in more detail, but later spawned a number of other branching tales. Forms the foundation for most series lore.
**Seems to bear ties to a number of stories, but its relationship to the overall lore is unknown (as reported even by the creators of the stories).


Zelda Game Completion History

LoZ- 100% 1st & 2nd quests
AoL- Got as far as the Maze Palace and then got busy
LttP- 100% items + Palace of the Four Sword; haven't done the riddle quest
LA- 100% items + Color Dungeon; haven't done the full camera quest
OoT- 100% items + Hylian Loach
MM- 100% items
OoX- Never 100%ed either one; definitely not going to try with the Ring quest
FS- Cleared it once!
TWW- 100% items; never completed Nintendo Gallery or done Tingle Tuner quest fully
FSA- Beaten
TMC- Beaten, didn't complete figurine quest so I never got one of the Heart Pieces
TP- 100% items; never really played with the Fishing Pond much
PH- 100% items
ST- Missed a Heart Container somewhere I think, otherwise 100% items
__________________
Last Edited by LegendofLex; 04-23-2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason:
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:27 PM
Fitoleon Fitoleon is a male Antarctica Fitoleon is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

You know what, I'm lazy. Just gonna copypasta some of the stuff from my old Theorizing Profile.

Last Updated 1/1/12
(Officially Retired)

▲▲
Spoiler: Personal Zelda History  
My first ever Zelda game was A Link to the Past/Four Swords for GBA. A few years after that, I borrowed The Minish Cap from a friend... He never asked for it back. After years of hiatus, one day I thought to myself, "I wonder what new Zelda game is coming out?" and happened to stumble upon the "Chronology" section of The Legend of Zelda (series) article on Wikipedia. After reading it, I thought "Pft! I could do that!" and I've been theorizing ever since. Kinda. Unfortunately, I've recently taken a step back from theorizing, due to general disinterest. Hopefully, when SS comes out, I can get back in the game.

▲▲
NOTE: I'm not going to explain any of my timelines. They're all pretty straightforward and you should see the logic (or, perhaps, lack thereof) in pretty much all of them yourself.
Spoiler: Timeline History  
Spoiler: Timeline v.1  
As said above, I initially read the little section on Wikipedia about the Zelda timeline and got hooked to the idea of making my own. After days of research, I came up with something like this:

------------------------TWW/PH-------LoZ/AoL
-----------------------/----------------------------\
TMC--FS/FSA--OoT-----------------------------OoX
-----------------------\----------------------------/
------------------------MM--TP/LCT---ALttP/LA
Spoiler: Timeline v.2  
Even after creating my initial timeline, I still wanted to do more research. I ended up going finding timeline videos on YouTube and watching some of those. Being a n00b theorist, I was easily persuaded by Ocarinahero10's timeline, which I adopted as well:

OoT--ALttP/OoX--TWW/PH/LA
--\MM--TP--TMC--FS/FSA--LoZ/AoL
Spoiler: Timeline v.3  
But even after a few days, I knew that Ocarinahero10's timeline didn't follow, so I went back to my old one.

It was a few weeks after that I somehow came along ZU, and, after lurking for a while, a finally decided to join with a timeline very close to what I have now:

OoT--TWW/PH--TMC--FS/FSA--LoZ/AoL
--\MM-TP/LCT--------------------ALttP/LA--OoX
Spoiler: Timeline v.4-5  
While I was active in the theorizing forums on ZU, I was often changing around my placement of OoX and the FSS. Timelines that followed included:

OoT--TWW/PH--ST--(TMC--FS/FSA)--LoZ/AoL
--\MM--TP/LCT------(TMC--FS/FSA)--ALttP/LA--OoX

OoT--TWW/PH--ST--(TMC--FS/FSA)--LoZ/AoL
--\MM--TP/LCT------(TMC--FS/FSA)--ALttP/OoX/LA

Also of note is the inclusion of ST, which was released during this time.
Spoiler: Timeline v.6  
Eventually, I settled with the timeline I have now, with the inclusion of SS, with the news of it's timeline placement:

SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST--TMC--FS/FSA--LoZ/AoL
------\MM-TP/LCT--------------------------ALttP/OoX/LA
Spoiler: Timeline v.7 (Final Timeline)  
The official Zelda timeline, found with the release of the artbook Zelda Historia:

---------------------/TWW/PH--ST
SS--TMC/FS--OoT--ALttP/OoX/LA--LoZ/AoL
---------------------\MM--TP(/LCT)--FSA


▲▲
Spoiler: View Points of Controversy  
-Infinitely in hiatus-

▲▲
Spoiler: Awards  
-None.

▲▲
Spoiler: Zelda Games Played  
The Legend of Zelda: 1st Quest- 100%
....................................2nd Quest- Haven't Started Yet
The Adventure of Link: Gotta Restart Again...
A Link to the Past: 100%
Link's Awakening: 100%
Ocarina of Time: 100%
Majora's Mask: 100%
Oracle of Ages: 100%
Oracle of Seasons: In Progress, On Poison Moth's Lair
Four Swords: 100%
The Wind Waker: 100%
Four Swords Adventures: 100%
The Minish Cap: 100%
Twilight Princess: 100%
Phantom Hourglass: 100%
Spirit Tracks: 100%
Skyward Sword: Beaten, Going for Hero Mode 100%
Last Edited by Fitoleon; 01-01-2012 at 03:14 PM. Reason:
  #8 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-26-2011, 10:20 AM
Captain Ricequake Captain Ricequake is a male Antarctica Captain Ricequake is offline
"In the battle between wisdom and feeling, wisdom never wins." -Merlin
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Okay, so here's my timelines.

Prior to the release of TWW, I didn't have a timeline. However, going on the info I had at the time, my timeline would look like this:

OoT/MM/LoZ/AoL

As I hadn't played ALttP, LA, or the Oracles games yet. After TWW was released, I got ALttP/FS for the GBA. My timeline would have looked something like this:

OoT/MM-TWW-ALttP/FS-LoZ/AoL

Then, FSA and TMC came out. After playing both and reading up on the timelines a bit, I constructed my "first" timeline:

OoT/MM-TWW-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL

After TP, PH, and ST, my timeline got better. I still didn't know whether the Zoras and boat in OoX were relevant or not, as I hadn't played them yet:

OoT-TWW/PH-ST-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/(LA)-LoZ/AoL
__\MM-TP-[ZWii, later announced as SS]-OoX/(LA)

I finally Composed a better timeline, but I've gotten bored in the "long wait" for the next game and made several variations of the timeline. The finalized version was on my first timeline thread:

SS-OoT-WW/PH-ST-MC-FS/FSA
____\MM-TP-ALttP-OoX/LA-LoZ/AoL

Second thread (finalized). "SH" stands for an unreleased game that I "predicted" would be released. The basic gist of it is that OoA timetravel causes another split branch:

-----------WW/PH-ST
SS-OoT<-MC-FS/FSA-OoX-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
-----------MM-TP-"SH"-OoS/OoA

Third thread, my finalized "timeloop" timeline. GW means "great war". The basic idea is that Hyrule is stuck in a timeloop because they keep not learning from past mistakes and do it over and over again.:

CT: ...SS-GW-Ganon Reborn-OoT/MM-TP-TMC-FS/FSA-IW-ALttP/(OoX)/LA-(OoX)-SZS-Ganon Returns-LoZ/AoL...

AT: ...SS-GW-Ganon Reborn-OoT-WW/PH-ST-Hyrule Unfloods-TMC-FS/FSA-IW-ALttP/(OoX)/LA-(OoX)-SZS-Ganon Returns-LoZ/AoL...

My current timeline is as follows, and is not due to change very soon:

SS-OoT-WW/PH-ST
____\MM-TP-MC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoX-LoZ/AoL

However, if I leave out the Capcom games, I think it's less messy and more compact:

SS-OoT-WW/PH-ST
____\MM-TP-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL

As I'm new to theorizing, I only have these few. Timeline theorizing is getting boring now that they're just "handing" placements over to us, so I don't expect many non-radical timeline theories for a long time.
__________________
"Maana Mungu aliupenda ulimwengu hivi hata akamtoa Mwana wake wa pekee, ili kila amwaminiye asipotee, bali awe na uzima wa milele." ~Yohana 3:16
  #9 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-27-2011, 07:27 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Location: Hyrule Field
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

An explanation of my timeline can be found in the previous version of this thread,
by clicking on my sig. However, I would like to take this opportunity to go into
some of my thoughts about timeline issues I didn't bring up in the previous thread.
(Assuming this is allowed, of course)

Re: Poll

A) I believe The Minish Cap is currently the first game in the timeline,
and that it might even come before Skyward Sword, who knows?
B) I believe Nintendo might make a game that takes place before The Minish Cap.
C) I believe THE Seal War (ALttP's Imprisoning War) happens after FSA and before ALttP.
D) I believe that anytime a Zelda villain is sealed away it counts as a "Seal War".

Re: Other Thoughts

1) FSA's Dark Mirror =/= TP's Mirror of Twilight
2) The NES games can't truly be placed yet. (As of April 2011)
3) Musically, TP connects OoT to LoZ and ALttP
4) I think that after the Gerudo 'kicked out' Ganondorf in FSA,
that he formed his own band of non-Gerudo thieves, such as the
thieves found in FSA's KakarikoVillage, and ALttP's Lost Woods
& Village Of Outcasts, and that it was these thieves who entered
the Golden Land with him, not the Gerudo tribe.

I also think that the Gerudo Tribe became nomadic after Ocarina of Time,
when the passage to the Gerudo Valley became impassable:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TP Auru
Now that prison is condemned,
and even the road leading to the
desert is impassable.
The entire Gerudo Tribe has become nomadic by the time of FSA, as evidenced
by the yurts they dwell in:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary
yurt |yoŏrt; yərt|
noun
a circular tent of felt or skins on a collapsible framework, used by nomads in Mongolia, Siberia, and Turkey.
5) I think the pyramidal seal in FSA references the ALttP artwork which shows Ganon sealed
in a triangular shape:





6) I believe that at the end of OoT, Ganon was sealed in a "realm of the dead", not the Sacred Realm.
7) I think that in OoT, Ganondorf sent Phantom Ganon to the Twilight Realm, based on Phantom
Ganon's physical appearance in The Wind Waker, and perhaps the Twilight Realm is where the OoT
Sages sealed Ganondorf.

Here are my latest thoughts on Geography.

(More content may be edited into this post at a later time...)
__________________
Last Edited by Cukeman; 07-04-2011 at 05:47 PM. Reason:
  #10 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-27-2011, 07:56 PM
Sólsetur Sólsetur is a male Iceland Sólsetur is offline
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Location: Louisiana
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

I'll post my timeline and previous timelines, but instead of brief explanation I'll just link... I don't feel like writing an explanation right now.

First Timeline (Made around two years ago, give or take a month or two.)
AT OoT MC FS ALTTP FSA LA OoA
CAT OoX................
CT OoT MM TP WW PH LoZ AoL OoS

I believed that the Oracles, when linked merged to create a new timeline, the CAT. Thus my idea for the CAT was born, and expanded upon. As you'll see in more recent timelines, it is much better than the original CAT.

My First Timeline

AT:OoT-WW-PH-ALTTP-MC-FS-FSA-LA-LoZ-AoL
CAT:Fierce War/ TRR's backstory < TRR- OoT split/End of CAT
CT:OoT-MM-TP-OoX-LCT

This time, the CAT is before the split, it contains the FW and TRR's backstory... I mainly added TRR just for something on Tingle.

Second Timeline

AT: OoT(A)/ALttP/LoZ-AoL-LA/WW-PH/ST/
CAT: SS(/-)OoT(C)
CT: MM/TP-LCT/OoX

Yeah, this one's really recent so I won't be posting another explanation...

Newest/Current Timeline

Yeah, my first was... wow... xD
__________________

[11:32:44 PM] jordan: AM I THE WHY OF THE THINGS OR AM THE THINGS THE WHY OF I


  #11 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-28-2011, 03:36 PM
AnderFunk AnderFunk is a male AnderFunk is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Here is my timeline and I will try to briefly explain why I put games where I did.

First, a quote from Aonuma taken from the Sept. 2010 issue of Nintendo Power:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aonuma
I think we've talked with the Media about this before, about Ocarina of Time being the oldest story in the Zelda timeline
So I am placing OoT first in my timeline and leaving the possibility open of new games coming before it. I am not yet placing SS before OoT because many times in the past a game's place in the timeline has changed before it was released. I have a policy of waiting until games are released before placing them on my timeline (no matter how certain it may seem before they are released).

Timeline so far:
? -OoT

I like to include question marks in my timeline to indicate the possiblity of a game fitting in at that point.

OoT's ending has a split into two seperate timelines. One ending ends with Adult Link removed from that timeline (Adult Timeline). This timeline will be the split that goes up. The other ending ends with Link as a Child before Ganon entered in the SR and obtained the Triforce (Child Ending). Since this ending involves sending Link to the past, I like to indicate that graphically by having the CT Ending more to the left than the AT ending.

Timeline so far:

---------
--------/
? - OoT
------/
----

MM is a direct sequel to the CT Ending of OoT. Since it uses the same Link without much time passing, I am ruling out the possibility of a game coming in between OoT and MM.

WW is a sequel to the AT Ending of OoT. Since some time has passed between OoT and WW, I leave the possibility open for a game to come in between the two.

Timeline so far:

---------? - WW
--------/
? - OoT
------/
----MM

PH is a direct sequel to WW. Since it uses the same Link without much time passing, I am ruling out the possibility of a game coming in between WW and PH.

ST is a sequel to PH. Since it does not use the same Link and a bit of time has passed, I leave the possibility open for a game to come in between the two (even though it is unlikely). It is also possible for any game that does not take place in OoT's Hyrule and does not contain the Master Sword (both were destroyed by the KoRL's wish at the end of WW) to come after ST.

Timeline so far:

---------? - WW - PH - ? - ST - ?
--------/
? - OoT
------/
----MM

TP is a sequel to the CT Ending of OoT. The backstory including the Sages attempted execution of Ganon confirms this. TP takes place some time after OoT so it also takes place after its direct sequel, MM. There is a possibility that a game comes in between MM and TP (since they are different Links and some time passes between the two) so I include a question mark between them.

Timeline so far:

---------? - WW - PH - ? - ST - ?
--------/
? - OoT
------/
----MM - ? - TP

Next comes the most difficult and controversial placement yet, ALttP. The explanation of my placement for this game is actually quite simple.

It can't come before OoT since OoT is currently the oldest game on the timeline.

It can't go between OoT and WW because WW contains the Master Sword and accoring to ALttP's ending no game after ALttP can contain the Master Sword (there are also too many differences between ALttP's backstory and OoT for me to realistically consider them to be the same, but that is not a definitive reason for my placement).

It can't come after WW since ALttP contains the Master Sword which was destroyed by the KoRL's wish at the end of WW. That rules out ALttP being on the AT entirely.

It can't go between OoT and TP because TP contains the Master Sword (same reason it can't go between OoT and WW).

The confirmation of a master timeline document from Miyamoto and Aonuma confirms that every game does in fact have a proper place on the timeline and they all fit together, so ALttP must go somewhere. And we have never been told anything about a third timeline or a pre-destined future timeline, so it must go on one of the two timelines.

By the process of elimination we can easily see that the only place ALttP can go without any plot holes is after TP on the CT. There are no glaring problems with placing the game here and everyone else you place it there are problems. Again, I leave the possibility of a game coming between TP and ALttP (including one for ALttP's backstory, although that scenario is unlikely). Also, any game that does not contain the Master Sword can come after ALttP.

My final timeline:

---------? - WW - PH - ? - ST - ?
--------/
? - OoT
------/
----MM - ? - TP - ? - ALttP - ?

You'll notice I do have some games missing. This is because I am not convinced about their placement. I do not believe in slapping a game somewhere on my timeline just because it fits in one place better than another. I need to be convinced about a game's placement before putting it on my timeline. So beneath my timeline I usually list the games (or sets of games) that I have not yet found a placement for:

LoZ-AoL
LA
OoX
MC - ? - FS - FSA

As for where these games might go, as long as they don't contradict any of the outlines I mentioned above they could pretty much go anywhere. Most of them could go anywhere between MM and TP, between TP and ALttP, after ALttP, between OoT and WW, between PH and ST (unlikely) or after ST.
__________________
-----------------------MM-?-TP-?-FSA-?
------------------------\--?-WW-PH-?-ST-?
-------------------------\/
-------------------------/
?-SS-?-MC-?-FS-?-OoT
-------------------------\
--------------------------?-ALttP-OoX-LA-?-LoZ-AoL-?
Last Edited by AnderFunk; 04-28-2011 at 03:43 PM. Reason:
  #12 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-29-2011, 12:42 AM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

aww man i don't have the first post in the thread anymore

uhm so i was pretty into the theorizing thing for a while, used Erimgard's timeline but debated heavily for OoX-LA which no one before me seemed to debate lol

so then i got all influenced by the LA theorists and Impossible when he invaded this place, and became very heavily CT based.

at some point i started thinking (i think this thought change was influenced very strongly by SOMEONE but i can't remember who... might've been nerushi) that TMC-FS/FSA-OoT worked really well, and i was really content with that timeline. i felt that it solved most of the plot holes, went with original intent, set up the other games well, and then when SS was confirmed to be pre-OoT and was supposed to be the first game, i went "**** theorizing i'm done" so i haven't theorized much since.

i'm a timeline agnostic i suppose. i don't really think knowing what the timeline is right now is really possible. we can make guesses about what it was in hindsight based on previous quotes and overall progression of quotes, but we don't really have any way of knowing what it is now, since even having a timeline where everything works perfectly doesn't mean **** to the developers. it's impossible to tell whether any connections are just reading too far into it, or whether they're actually intended. and it's impossible to tell whether errors with a theory are due to the theory not being true, or it just being a plot hole, and the developers just wanted to keep it relatively simple.

so i suppose i believe in:
----TWW/PH-ST
OoT
----MM-TP

LttP seems more likely to me to go on the CT, and LA seems more likely to be after OoX (or it seems likely to be intended by capcom to be post-OoX. the boat really is obvious evidence), and OoX may potentially be a sequel to LttP (if only because OoX might be attached to LA, but OoX Link obviously being a young kid seems like relatively simple evidence against this, so idk).

TMC is a perfect starter for a timeline but with the whole SS thing it's tough to tell, so the four swords saga is pretty unplaceable atm imo. although i think it could fit really nicely after spirit tracks, since that would still let TMC be an origin story of sorts, and there's all the focus on force gems and such.

LoZ/AoL are pretty ****in' hopeless. the AoL BS likely isn't intended to mean anything at all anymore based on how it's been retconned so much, and how they really honestly could've made the GBA manual have the same story but they clearly changed it when they had a chance.

but i suppose the AoL BS opinions are relatively subjective, but it seems to me like assuming that it matters is just reading too far into it at this point.

i think i got everything.

oh right the SW is pretty controversial.

the SW is probably the only thing i feel strongly about in that i think it is no longer any other game and is likely just LttPs backstory.
Last Edited by theunabletable; 04-29-2011 at 12:53 AM. Reason:
  #13 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-18-2011, 01:35 AM
Ginkasa Ginkasa is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Note: You can skip the preamble and jump to the actual theories by looking for the "***."


The Zelda timeline was always something that interested me even before I played my first Zelda game, OoT. I've always had a tendency to need to play/watch/read/whatever the "first" parts of a series before I could move on to the next part. So, I always watched Star Wars before Empire and I never even considered the possibility that The Last Crusade could be watched without having to force myself through Temple of Doom.

Anyway, I was pretty nervous going into OoT that I wouldn't understand the game since I hadn't played the previous Zeldas. I was very excited when I found out that OoT was the first in the series chronologically. As I then started to explore the other Zelda games I wanted to make sure I played them in the "correct" order (the thought that release dates dictated a correct "playthrough" order never crossed my mind).

As time passed, though, things got more complicated. While at one point there seemed to be a few widely held beliefs (with a few minor conflicts like single Link vs. multiple Link, etc.) everything started to quickly get more complicated and I started to get tired of following the theories and arguments over petty details. People seemed to be creating theories to hear their own voice rather than figure out the "true" timeline.

So, I came up with a couple of theories of my own to allow myself to play the games and keep some continuity without having to worry about the different translations of some minor character's line in Japanese.


****

First is my "multiple universes" theory. Rather than a split timeline theory where things branch off from OoT, this assumes that some games actually have no connection to certain other games. There are contained universes within various games. They are:

"Original universe:" LoZ - AoL - OoX

LoZ and AoL never seem to fit with many of the other games; they always feel like an afterthought to the more story driven installments, so I felt they worked better separate. The Oracle games, though, seem to share a common tone with the original games, LoZ in particular. I imagine this is due to the initial plan for the Oracle games to be remakes of the NES classics (and the reused assets like certain bosses). Twinrova resurrecting Ganon in OoX flows well from the NES games as well.

"Four Swords universe:" TMC - FS - FSA

Quite honestly, the Four Swords games just don't work for me in conjunction with the other games. They have a nice continuous flow on their own, but don't really intersect too much with the others.

"Modern universe:" OoT (child) - MM - TP
OoT (adult) - TWW - PH - ST - ALttP - LA

You'll notice there's still a split timeline in this universe. Not much to say here except that its a lot easier to swallow this without having to shoehorn in the NES, Oracle, or Four Swords games in here somewhere.

Still, though, I have a hard time reconciling the "post-OoT" games (ALttP, TWW, TP) together at all, even with a split timeline. Ganon dies in all three of those, so none of them can really take place after the other without some sort of fanfictiony theory that brings him back to life (or that he didn't "really" die). Maybe there is some line hidden somewhere that can justify it, but it doesn't work for me. So, I relatively recently adopted a different theory regarding all the games that makes it a lot easier to enjoy their stories:

Each game can be connected to any other game, but that connection does not prevent or infer any connections with any additional games.

So, what this means is that ALttP, TWW, and TP all take place after OoT, but they don't necessarily take place together. They are independent stories that happen to function as sequels to the same game, but they don't have any relation to each other. There's a theory I've heard that states LA now takes place after OoX instead of ALttP. It does! But it also takes place after ALttP, too, but the Oracle games have no relation to ALttP. And so on.

Is it a cop out? Kind of, but I can enjoy the various connections and references from one game to another without having to reconcile all the various plot holes and whatnot.
  #14 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 05-18-2011, 02:57 PM
riomhaire riomhaire is a male Ireland riomhaire is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Myself
How I theorize
So I'll start off with how I look at theorising. Miyamoto and Aonuma may have a timeline planned out in the Nintendo HQ but I am not attempting to figure out what they have. I am not going to second guess what was the intent behind things in a game.

I just go by the game content itself and try to piece things together from that. I take what is in the games and I try to stitch them together in ways that leave the fewest holes. I take in-game events and quotes and manual backstory as evidence and I don't particularly care about trying to decipher developer intent.


Game's I've finished
  • A Link to the Past
  • Ancient Stone Tablets
  • Link's Awakening
  • Ocarina of Time
  • Majora's Mask
  • The Wind Waker
  • Oracle of Ages
  • Oracle of Seasons
  • The Minish Cap
  • Twilight Princess
  • Phantom Hourglass
  • Spirit Tracks

I've never 100% completed or three-hearted any game. I own but have not yet finished the original two NES games. I intend to finish them as well as acquire all the other games I lack. I also have finished Oracle of Ages and Seasons individually but haven't played a linked game. (I previously owned Ages but lost it and have since acquired Seasons, perhaps I'll get them both on the 3DS virtual console when I pick one up).


What I consider canon
I prefer to be inclusive in what I consider canon rather than exclusive. If it appears to take place in the same universe as the others and it's an official Nintendo product (or on rare occasions Capcom) then why not include it in my timeline? As such I choose to include the obscure games such as the Broadcast Satelaview games and Game & Watches or Link's Crossbow Training. That said, I don't include things like the US comics or TV show, the Philips games, games like Soul Calibur or Smash Bros. or the mangas. Is this hypocritical? I'm not sure at all.


I also take the latest version to be canon. GBA ALttP > SNES ALttP, Shard of Agony > Stone of Agony and Japanese versions over all translations. So for me the Japanese 3DS release of Ocarina of Time is the highest canon.


Things to take into account
In terms of what I consider to be important when building my timeline I take multiple things into account. The first is of course the stories of the games themselves. Overall plot points should be consistent and Ganondorf shouldn't be running around when he's dead and the Triforce should not suddenly be in Hyrule when it should have been in the Sacred Realm or visa versa. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to arrange everything like this without some inconsistencies because Zelda has never been a series concerned overly with continuity.

Other things I take into account are the backstories. I refuse to disregard things like the Seal War (though details could be confused) and the Sleeping Zelda backstory. They are part of the Zelda fiction as much as the events of each game and I think they should be explicitly taken into account in any full timeline.

I also take the details of the world of each game into account. I'm not saying geography but that is a component. Things like which landmarks are important and which races are present. I think two games that feature Hylians, Gorons and Zora are prominent races in Hyrule are more likely to be close in the timeline to games that only feature Hylian/human characters. Not as important as story details but its something I still think should be taken into account.



Timelines *WIP*
The definite part of my timeline:
tMC--OoT--tWW/PH--ST
..............\MM--TP/LCT--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA/AST

The debate is where to put the NES games early on (pre-OoT) or late (post-ALttP) in the timeline and whether to put OoX at the very end separate from ALttP or with the same Link as ALttP. In either case I would not put either on the AT. I keep that free of Ganon and the Triforce for reasons I will explain when I get around to it.


Detailed Analysis *WIP*
Ocarina of Time
It's the central part of most timelines and placement of other games is often relative to it so it seems like a good place to start.

The Split
I believe in the split timeline. I think without a split the timeline is just a complete mess and for reasons I will explain in the Wind Waker section I don't like to put most of the games after Wind Waker. I think that at the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda sends Link back in time to before they met.

The Door of Time being open does present a problem with this theory but I think it's a more acceptable inconsistency than Zelda being suddenly back in the courtyard acting the same way as before you met her. I think sending Link back in time also somehow caused the Triforce to split and be sent to Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. Ganondorf doesn't realise he has the Triforce of Power and either Link and Zelda don't either or no one believes them about it. After Ganondorf attacks Hyrule Castle (possibly destorys the Temple of Time too?) he is apprehended and the botched execution seen in Twilight Princess takes place.

The Temples
There is some sort of connection between the temples and the Sacred Realm. Possibly some were built for other purposes (like the Forest Temple being a manor house) and only became temples once this connection was discovered in the buildings. The connection is evident from how the evil affecting each area is said to be pouring forth from the temples. I think this evil is coming through the temples from Ganondorf's corrupted sacred realm.

I think this is also how the sages travel to Sacred Realm after they are awakened. I don't think these connections are as strong as the one in the Temple of Time. I don't think it's possible to physically walk into the Sacred Realm from them like it is in the Temple of Time, but I think the sages can travel to their using magic from their temples.
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Last Edited by riomhaire; 07-09-2011 at 10:34 AM. Reason:
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:33 AM
Link from the Void Link from the Void is a male Link from the Void is offline
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The Real Timeline

This is the time line I believe in:

--------------WW---PH---ST
--------------/
SS--------OoT
--------------\
--------------MM---TP

Then there is not enough evidence to see in which timeline the other games belong, therefore they are on a separate timeline, but it is clear that they are on the future, I am not sure where though.


ALttP---LA---TLoZ---TAoL


In, addition it is also clear that the following titles are even further into the future than the rest of the games, but again not sure if on the TP timeline or the ST one.


TMC---FS---FSA

I'm not pretty sure where the OoS or the OoA go.

Finally it is clear that all of the timelines came after ST or TP.
Last Edited by Link from the Void; 05-25-2011 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Saved changes unintetionally. Still learning how to post in Forums
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Jarmihi United States Jarmihi is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

My timeline will forever be in my signature, so you can find it there.

Canon: see the games listed in my timeline. That's it. Those constitute canon. Originals > remakes. Japanese > other translations.

On the Seal War: I believe it takes place during that seven years in which Link is imprisoned. Ganon destroyed the armies but still lost the war when Link was sent back in time and alerted the king of his plot. So, Ganondorf lost the Seal War before it ever happened. (Don't forget that I'll argue a linear timeline to my death.)

Old theorist? Certainly. I've had timeline theories for at least eight years now. At one time, I believed in a multiple timeline theory, but a touch of logic brought me to assert that a linear timeline is most correct.
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Jarmihi
My timeline fiction: SS|OoT|MM|TP|OoX|LoZ|(LA*)|AoL|ALttP|MC|FS|FSA|WW| PH|ST

*Link's Awakening is a dream...therefore it never really happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leroiducouscous
I didn't build what I think the "official" timeline should be (actually, I think it shouldn't be any ever, that's what makes all the charms of the serie, at least at its beginning), I built what is for me the most pleasant story. I don't force anybody to believe in it!
"Not only will it hurt enemies, but you can burn things with it, too!" -- Great Fairy, entrusting Din's Fire to Link
Last Edited by Jarmihi; 06-03-2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason:
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:39 AM
Elmi Elmi is a male Elmi is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

This is my timeline, with some things and whatnot (a couple of holes :<)

SS -------> OoT --------------------------------------------->WW -> PH -> ST -> LoZ -> AoL (AT)
......................\........................... .................................................. ...........| (Parallel in each timeline)
........................MM -> TP/LCT -----> ALttP -> TMC -> FS/FSA----LA (CT)
.................................................. ................\----------> OoX ----------->/

Adult Timelime

First it starts with SS (the game hasn't come out yet) but Nintendo seems to say it does so whatever. OoT happens and then Link travel to the future and awakens the Sages and they seal Ganon. After Link gets sent back in time to relive his youth.

After is WW and tHoW has to deal with Ganon, and reawaken the MS and kills Ganon with the help of Zelda. After is PH which happens directly after WW, Tetra and Link enter the Ghost Ship and enter the World of the Ocean King. They later wake up and continue to make the new Hyrule. The ST backstory happens in the beginning of the New Hyrule then the events of ST happen.

The reason why I put LoZ/AoL because the names of the town are the Sages from OoT, but Ganon was killed in TWW, but I had thought he was put to stone, or did they just kill the Human Form (one of the holes in my Timelime).

Child Timeline

Link is sent back to the past and then he goes searching for Navi and MM occurs. A few centuries later, TP happens and the Hero Chosen by the Gods and Midna must stop Zant, but they find out Ganon was behind it and how he survived his excution . After LCT he uses his Crossbow to kill all the monsters and such.

A bunch of centuries later A Link to the Past happens (don't know much about the game) then the Master Sword slumbers forever and the Trifoce in whole intact. After the OoX happen the ALttP Link goes to the Hond-something and Lynd-something and that happens over a long time because of the present and past overworlds. While that is happening the TMC happens and how Princess Zelda get's put to stone by Vaati. Explains the origin of the Four Sword, and Vaati. FS and FSA happens after. Eventually the ALttP Link goes on a ship from OoX and LA happens. Since the event of the FSA happened, they subconcisously enter the Wind Fish dream and that's why the Four Sword secret ending happens and stuff.

Other Information

I think the time between WW and OoT must have been long for the evoultion of the Zora, how the people populated the Ocean. Somethings kinda don't make sense like the 7 Wise Men. I believe it is the gap of century and how the word of mouth eventual changes stories. I think they said Men because Link was a male, but that just my opinion. I think that PH and LA are parallel because how the 'divine prank' happened in TP, because of the events of the AT, that the dream worlds must have been a 'divine concidence'.
Last Edited by Elmi; 07-01-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason:
  #18 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-01-2011, 09:52 AM
Fyreball Fyreball is a male United States Fyreball is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

My Timline is VERY COMPLICATED SO instead of posting ALL my THEORIES I shall Simply post
My Time Line.

WW-PH-TMC-FS-FSA-ST

/
SS-OOT
/
MM-OOS-OOA------TP-Alttp-LA-LOZ--AOL

Did I miss Something?? Please Tell my if I did.
I must say. I have a Weird Timeline. NOT AS WEIRD AS THE DOUBLE ATTP one though! My Greatest Con Flict with My OWN Theory is the FSS (Four Sword Saga) is In another Timeline.....Alas Most of my Child Timeline Ties in with FSS BUT I feel that my Current Timeline is my best so far. NOTE: I have never played FS Or FSA BUT I Know the Storyline EXTREMLY Well. With that Said I Have posted my simplified Timeline!
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Oktaku/Blackbelt/Hacker/Student/Gamer/Human. Nuff said.

So....want some boredom? You can change lives with me and experience one life of boredom for free!

Unashamed Christian....ok?
  #19 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-01-2011, 12:56 PM
Big One Big One is a male United States Big One is offline
is THE ONE.
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0



Now let me explain, while there are multiple "branches" I do not believe in multiple timeline splits. The only timeline split is the one from OoT, the others are just game connections.
  • Legend of Zelda - First game in the series, has been said multiple times to be a sequel to A Link to the Past.
  • Adventure of Link - Features the same Link from the original, only older. While I'll wait for Skyward Sword to make a confirmation, I still am a supporter of Sleeping Zelda. I feel like while SS Zelda might be her precursor, that Sleeping Zelda is possibly still the first Zelda born in the Royal Family. I also feel like there isn't any sufficient proof that the King of Hyrule wrote the scrolls that were shown to Link; by that I mean the King of Hyrule from the backstory not that the King of Hyrule didn't write the scrolls. I believe this because the scrolls reference the fact that Sleeping Zelda exists, and it's up to Link to save her. The King of Hyrule in the backstory died before those events happened, so he wouldn't know about it. So I believe it takes place in a later time, the actual building of the temples and the relocation of the Triforce of Courage.
  • Zelda Game & Watch - Made by Gunpei Yokoi himself, you can't get more official than that. Probably features the same Link and Zelda cause at the time it wasn't really concepted of that there were multiple Link and Zelda (ignoring Sleeping Zelda of course).
  • A Link to the Past - Prequel to the original Legend of Zelda, and sequel to Ocarina of Time. I put it on the Child Timeline for multiple reasons, a lot doing with the fact that Old Hyrule still exists plus the fact I believe the Seal War didn't happen in Ocarina of Time, puts it on the Child Timeline for me. There are a ton of reasons I could make a thread for.
  • Sound & Drama - Direct prequel radio drama to A Link to the Past, is the official soundtrack of the game.
  • Link's Awakening - Direct sequel to A Link to the Past featuring the same Link. A lot of people believe OoX Link is also the same as LA Link, but with all due respect to the script writing master Yoshiaki Koizumi, I'm going to have to say no.
  • BS-X The Legend of Zelda - Takes place in a simulation world, features the same hero from it's sequel: BS-X Ancient Stone Tablets.
  • BS-X Ancient Stone Tablets - Takes place 6 years after A Link to the Past, and takes place at the same time as Link's Awakening. The hero from the first game gets directly sent to Hyrule after his/her adventures in the virtual world of Hyrule.
  • Ocarina of Time - Prequel to the entire series, origin of the split timeline. I believe only one part of A Link to the Past's backstory happened in the game: The origin of Ganon and how he corrupts the Sacred Realm. I believe due to the inconsistencies it has with the Seal War, like the fact that the original intent of the Seal War was to have a conflict that didn't involve Link - hence the last resort was to seal Ganon - and the fact that we only have two real sources that suggest this and one of these are comments from an interview with the character designer and script director, and the fact that the Japanese Virtual Console description says it's the Seal War. I also think it's highly probable that the Japanese have a different look at the Seal War than most Americans do.
  • Majora's Mask - Direct sequel, takes place on the Child Timeline in an alternate universe (that's why I shifted it to the side).
  • Oracle of Ages/Seasons - While the topic of these games are highly debated, I believe these games take place in a time after the original games. In Oracle of Ages/Seasons it makes a direct reference that suggests OoX Link's Triforce mark is the same one we see in Adventure of Link. In Adventure of Link, it suggests the writer of the scroll cast a spell on Hyrule just so Link can get it, which is a different origin story than usual for the Triforce mark. The same wording used to describe both is a "mystery" in context. However, it cannot take place before Adventure of Link because the Triforce itself is already collected by the Royal Family itself.
  • Four Swords - Complete and utterly unknown where this goes, other than it takes place before Four Swords Adventure.
  • The Wind Waker - Direct sequel to Ocarina of Time, takes place on the Adult Timeline.
  • Four Swords Adventure - Direct sequel to Four Swords, this game probably takes place before A Link to the Past for the fact that it tells an origin story for classic Ganon in aesthetic, and the origin of the trident. Four Swords Adventure also easily has the most matchable map with the speculated game it's connected to in the entire series.
  • The Minish Cap - Prequel to the original Four Swords, I have no idea where it goes. I believe, however, it takes place somewhere on the Child Timeline, which I've explained in this thread here: The Minish Cap dilemma - Force gems and why it can't go on the Adult Timeline
  • Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland - I believe this game takes place in a revived version of The Wind Waker's Great Sea. While I don't have support for that belief, what is definitely true is the connections it has to The Wind Waker. At one point in the game, the Legend of Tingle is mentioned by one of the Salona, which I discussed here: If you had any doubts about Rosy Rupeeland sometime after Wind Waker.
  • Twilight Princess - Direct sequel to Ocarina of Time, takes place on the Child Timeline.
  • Tingle's Balloon Fight - There isn't story here, but it probably takes place after The Wind Waker or sometime related to it. Features the same island that houses the home of Tingle in the game and seems to be set in the Great Sea.
  • Phantom Hourglass - Direct sequel to The Wind Waker.
  • Link's Crossbow Training - Direct sequel to Twilight Princess. Did you know this game actually was intended to have more story at one point? Miyamoto himself wanted to make a Terminator style plot in which Link would go to the future, hence the futuristic looking crossbow. Instead we just got a plotless sequel to Twilight Princess. Whatever the case is, development points to this game being a side-story similar to Majora's Mask.
  • Color Changing Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love - Takes place after Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, this game features a different Tingle than usual. A remnant piece of Uncle Rupee, however, is featured in the game, which implies it's a sequel.
  • Spirit Tracks - Direct sequel to Phantom Hourglass.
  • Skyward Sword - Direct prequel to Ocarina of Time.
Red = ambiguous canon. Doesn't really matter to the bigger picture.

This is the timeline I follow for the most part, though a lot of these games could go anywhere. Miyamoto said once that they leave canon fluid enough to change in the future, so I'm interested to see how Zelda continuity is built upon in the future.
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Last Edited by Big One; 07-01-2011 at 05:48 PM. Reason:
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:33 AM
Pretendo Pretendo is a male United States Pretendo is offline
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Re: Theorists of ZU 2.0

Let's do this. Take note these were all after July 2010.

Timeline A - The Most Stupid N00bish Timeline Ever

------------MM-TP-MC-FS-FSA-LOZ-AOL
SS---OOT
------------ALTTP-OOX-WW-PH-LA-ST

Wow...I was stupid back then. *Bonks head*


Timeline B - The Logical Timeline

----------MM-TP-ALTTP-OOX-LA
SS-OOT
----------WW-PH-ST-MC-FS-FSA-LOZ-AOL

This is what I consider the most logical Zelda timeline.


Timeline C - The Alternative Logical

----------MM-TP-ALTTP-OOX-LA-LOZ-AOL-MC-FS-FSA
SS---OOT
----------WW-PH-ST

Yeah, no. This was when I took the MC Figurines seriously.


To this day, I believe in Timeline B. I'll explain. Except Timeline A, there is no point explaining. I was a naive kid that believed everything I heard and/or saw on Youtube.

Timeline B:

SS is before OOT. OOT brings the Split. On the CT, MM happens, then TP. Then I think ALTTP comes next due to the similarites of the MS location and the Ancient Sages. Then at the end of ALTTP, OOX begins, then LA. On the AT, Hyrule is flooded and WW happens. The MS, Ganondorf, and Old Hyrule is destroyed. PH takes place, and then ST in a new era, in New Hyrule. Then MC happens, because of the geographical similarites to New Hyrule and Force Gems and an unkown power in Zelda. Then the other FS games, where Ganon is most likely sealed in the FS. Then he escapes where you have to kill him in LOZ, and then AOL.

Timeline C:

SS is before OOT. OOT brings the Split. On the CT, MM happens, then TP. Then I think ALTTP comes next due to the similarites of the MS location and the Ancient Sages. Then at the end of ALTTP, OOX begins, then LA. Then the originals, LOZ and AOL take place in Hyrule. I then put the FSS on the CT because of the Oracles' figurines from MC. And of course on the AT, is the WW Saga.
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