Skyward Sword Speculation/Theory Thread (SPOILERS EXPECTED)

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Except that 'centuries' can be consider ancient because 'ancient' is a semantics sort of thing. We can look at an old person and think that they are ancient, yet they are less than 150 years old. It pretty much have the same problem as the definition of planets(If one is strict and uses the current definition then technically Jupiter is not considered a planet.).

Like planet, ancient is more of a concept rather than a define set of age.

Again, completely wrong, and bad analogy too. True ancient is a concept, but I would never say..

"Oh I'm going to read my favorite piece of ancient literature."
"What may that be?"
"Hamlet by William Shakespeare."

That is, by all means, not a correct use of the term, even though Hamlet is a couple hundred years old. Being ancient usually refers to stuff that is "lost," like say the dinosaurs or the ancient culture of Egypt.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Yes, because ZZ sees no contradictions. Where are you seeing them(besides the 'ancient' thing.)?

The tunic is different, the bow is different, OoT Link wasn't even a real "legendary hero" in the CT. There's more than enough reasons to believe it isn't referring to the Hero of Time.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

ZZ showed you. Faron telling TP Link that his powers(which turned him into a wolf) are the same as the ancient hero's.

And unless you believe that the Triforce split before OoT, or that which turn TP Link into a wolf is not the ToC, then it has to refer to OoT Link or a Link between OoT and TP.

No Faron told TP Link that his tunic was similar.

No Faron told TP Link that his tunic was similar.

Originally Posted by Faron

It was a sign that the powers of the chosen one rest within you...and that they
are awakening.
Look at your awakened form...
The green tunic that is your garb once belonged to the ancient hero chosen by
the gods...
His power is yours. His is the true power that slept within you.

Nope, that's definitely the power he's referring to. The Triforce of Courage specifically, if the transformation scene is any indication.

Originally Posted by Big One

"Oh I'm going to read my favorite piece of ancient literature."
"What may that be?"
"Hamlet by William Shakespeare.".

Strange, because ZZ would have accepted you using ancient like that. Which brings it all back to the semantics thing again. There is no set age for ancient, and so ancient can mean how much time the reader or writer wants it to be.

The tunic is different, the bow is different,

So a graphic style change between two games totally mean that they can't be the same... right... Besides ZZ already said that Link would have to get a differnt tunic as he grows up since he won't magically get one, and he doubts that the Hero's Bow in MM would be used once he is an adult and can use a better bow for his size and strength.

ZZ sees nothing wrong here.

OoT Link wasn't even a real "legendary hero" in the CT.

Now look who is making up facts. We don't know anything about OoT Link after MM. He could have became a legendary hero on the child timeline, or Tingle could have captured him and torture him to death as his slave.

There's more than enough reasons to believe it isn't referring to the Hero of Time.

Really? Because ZZ still hasn't seen any.



Edit: This last part was ninja'ed by Lex.

No Faron told TP Link that his tunic was similar.

Then you need to watch the scene again...

It starts at the 7:40.

I went on here to see what was being speculated about Skyward Sword and all I find is talk about razors, french toast and Link being a slave to Tingle.

What has happened to this thread? I don't know what anyone is talking about anymore.

Got the LA retranslation of that if you want to take a look at it. It isn't much different from the english version

しかし、それは兆し・・・
But that was a sign…
That was a sign...

貴方の中に眠る、神に選ばれし者の力の 目覚めの兆しだったのです
It was a sign of the awakening of that which sleeps within you, the power of one who is chosen by the gods.
It was a sign that the powers of the chosen one rest within you...and that they are awakening.

見るのです　目覚めし　その姿を
Look upon the form that has awakened.
Look at your awakened form...

身にまといし　緑の衣は かつて神に選ばれし古の勇者のもの・・・
The green clothes you wear once belonged to the ancient hero who was chosen by the gods…
The green tunic that is your garb once belonged to the ancient hero chosen by the gods...

それが、貴方の持つ本当の力
That is the true power you possess.
His power is yours. His is the true power that slept within you.

Originally Posted by Big One

Okay stop right there buddy. It seems you have a failed understanding what the CT is.

NONE of the events of OoT happened on the CT, the CT is only the child ending. Nothing that happens in the game happens in the CT. Ocarina of Time itself is exclusively on the AT.

I had a feeling you were going to say that. However, this isn't true: The ending of the game takes place in the CT, meaning when Link goes to visit Zelda and together they inform the King of Hyrule about Ganondorf and his nefarious plot. So essentially, the beginning of the CT takes place right at the very end of OoT

You're still not understanding anything. The events in those paragraphs refer to the events that occurred in Ocarina of Time, which didn't occur on the CT. It is, in no way, meant to be an indicator of something that happened in an exclusive timeline. Matter of fact it specifically says Link went back in time, which is something - if meant to be scribed by Hylian hands (it isn't) - that no one would know about. In other words all it is telling us what happened to Link before the events of Majora's Mask to the reader. It isn't really meant to be a real indicator of timeline hijinks. The way it's wrote treats Zelda like a story, and that's the intent. It's a writer telling his story to the reader.

And I think YOU are the one who's still not understanding. The only point I'm trying to make here is that Link was known as a hero throughout Hyrule in the CT, which is clearly stated in that cleverly-worded intro to MM. Of course the intro isn't meant to give vital information for timeline junkies, and no duh it's only meant as a way to give players a brief backstory from the previous game. Stop pointing out random, blatantly obvious information for the sake of an argument that we don't need to be having; I'm not disagreeing with your theory that the 'ancient hero' from TP is the Link from SS, we actually agree on that, I'm just pointing out a factual error in your argument with everyone else

Just adding my thoughts on what's being discussed.

1) The tunic of OoT Link and TP Link are the same. Not too sure of how any other conclusion can be drawn. The limitations of a console doesn't = different clothes. As far as I'm concerned, they are the same.

Also, I was always under the impression that that all the links wore the green tunic because OoT Link (the first link? [until SS]) did. And Link wore the tunic 'cause he <thought he was> a Kokiri, in which case why does SS Link have a green tunic?

2) Am I correct in assuming that the Triforce splits when Ganondorf touches it (assuming it is a physical entity), which occurs when Link takes the master sword. It splits, and Link, too young to be the hero, gets locked away (with the triforce of courage) while Ganondorf terrorises Hyrule with his new found power. Therefore the Triforce splits when Link is a child.

3) In what possible way can a story be set in which Ganondorf comes along in OoT. Isn't he just a gerudo from the desert who gains the favour of the King, and then breaks in (sort of) to the Sacred Realm and takes over. A bit like Macbeth in a sense I suppose. What other circumstances need to be set?

^ I'm presuming Aonuma means that Ganondorf's appearance is going to be set up indirectly in that the things that lead him to Hyrule in OoT will come into being/be set in motion during SS.

If I had to guess, he means the Sacred Realm seal is created in SS to guard the Triforce.

Originally Posted by Tarkin

in which case why does SS Link have a green tunic?

It's the green version of the official bird riders of Skyloft tunic.

Originally Posted by Lex

Nope, that's definitely the power he's referring to. The Triforce of Courage specifically, if the transformation scene is any indication.

This is a joke right? Did you even read the quote you posted in full? Let me point out a line in it:

"The green tunic that is your garb once belonged to the ancient hero chosen by
the gods..."

Here Faron specifically says TP Link's tunic belongs to an ancient hero. This is what I'm talking about, nothing else.

The "power" is so ambiguous in nature in that use it could mean anything. Matter of fact I believe it's referring to the Triforce of Courage, since the Wolf transformation isn't necessarily a power you would inherit from someone since it's just an after-effect of Link going into the Twilight Realm.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Strange, because ZZ would have accepted you using ancient like that. Which brings it all back to the semantics thing again. There is no set age for ancient, and so ancient can mean how much time the reader or writer wants it to be.

Again, wrong. If you look up various definitions of ancient, while it can be used to refer to just simply old things, the most common use of the word refers to anything before the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 AD in the current use we have today. In context, ancient refers to things that are way beyond 1000 years in age. We know for fact that nothing from the OoT era is considered ancient, mainly cause that there's a picture of the FISHERMAN from OoT on the wall of the fishing area in TP, implying a direct family relation. To me, that gives me the indication that to the people of TP, none of the stuff in OoT should ever be considered ancient unless it's something like - say - the Temple of Time, Ocarina of Time, Master Sword, etc. objects.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

So a graphic style change between two games totally mean that they can't be the same... right... Besides ZZ already said that Link would have to get a differnt tunic as he grows up since he won't magically get one, and he doubts that the Hero's Bow in MM would be used once he is an adult and can use a better bow for his size and strength.

I have never, ever, considered graphical changes to be deciding factors in this whatsoever.

In TP, the Hylian shield barely changed despite the graphical change. Why wasn't it more realistic like some of the other stuff in the game?

If the item is meant to be the same, it'll look the same. In ST, the shield from PH is quite blatantly inherited directly from the previous Link himself.

Now I'm not saying that on a technical level, they may be the same. For example something like wood usually doesn't last very long, so it's highly possible the specific bow in TP was a remade bow based off the original one. Something like that is okay. I also feel the same way about the Hylian shield in TP in relation to OoT. It's based off the original Hylian shield, but isn't the same exact one.

What I'm saying is that you simply cannot deny this connection. Do you also deny that the shield ST Link got from Niko isn't the shield Link uses in PH? That's pretty much approximately what you're doing.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Now look who is making up facts. We don't know anything about OoT Link after MM. He could have became a legendary hero on the child timeline, or Tingle could have captured him and torture him to death as his slave.

But that's exactly what I'm saying. Because there is nothing to suggest he was a hero on the CT, it's best to assume that it is because it makes more sense that way. It's called using occam's razor.

You guys do realize that it's the Triforce of Courage that allows Link to become a wolf in the first place, right?

When Link first enters the Twilight Realm, the Triforce of Courage resonates, transforming him into his beastly form. I'd assume this was a means of protecting him. So "the power that sleeps within him" a.k.a. the ToC, was there protecting him, even though he wasn't aware he had such power.

It's a very similar situation as the Triforce of Power protecting Ganondorf from his execution. He knew nothing of it until that very moment, when the ToP--that was similarly sleeping within him--awakened and came to his aid.

Originally Posted by Big One

The "power" is so ambiguous in nature in that use it could mean anything. Matter of fact I believe it's referring to the Triforce of Courage, since the Wolf transformation isn't necessarily a power you would inherit from someone since it's just an after-effect of Link going into the Twilight Realm.

The 'power' is almost guaranteed to be the ToC. Not only that, but if you too believe that 'power is referring to the ToC then you have to believe either 1. The triforce was split before ToC and reassembled.. 2. OoT is the ancient hero. or 3. the ancient hero is a Link between OoT and TP.

And since you don't believe in 2 or 3, then you must believe 1.

Again, wrong.

Oh sure, so ancient is going to continually mean a bigger and bigger time zone? So in another thousand years from now ancient will only mean anything that is older than 2500 years or so? Oh and let's not forget that the Roman empire didn't exist within Hyrule.

*sigh* Fine, ZZ is just going to have to drop this since you seemed to want to stay strictly to the current definition of the word, and is not willing to move away from it.

I have never, ever, considered graphical changes to be deciding factors in this whatsoever.

And yet you complain about it the most often compare to the others.

In TP, the Hylian shield barely changed despite the graphical change. Why wasn't it more realistic like some of the other stuff in the game?

And what do you mean here? The design on then front? Or the fact that is has a wooden back, which is realistic...

If the item is meant to be the same, it'll look the same.

And Link's tunic looks the same to ZZ.

Ect. It's based off the original Hylian shield, but isn't the same exact one.

And yet you have this tunic in perfect condition in a world with magic. So the tunic can be the same, but not the bow?

What I'm saying is that you simply cannot deny this connection. Do you also deny that the shield ST Link got from Niko isn't the shield Link uses in PH? That's pretty much approximately what you're doing.

Strange, because this whole time ZZ thought that it was you who was denying that.

But that's exactly what I'm saying. Because there is nothing to suggest he was a hero on the CT, it's best to assume that it is because it makes more sense that way.

Then you have to believe that either the Triforce was split and reassembled sometime before OoT, something that makes less sense then OoT Link becoming a hero on the CT, or that the ancient hero was a Link between OoT and TP, which is apparently going against your concept of ancient.

Doesn't the Triforce split when Link is returned from the future at the end of OoT. This means that Link has the ToC in the CT as well as the AT.

Therefore all the spirits and the Royal Family would consider him a hero, so it could very well be OoT Link.

The bird symbol reprosents the protecting of the triforce...

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

lol lol

Okay. People.

SS Link and The Hero's Shade share nearly identical tunics. Hell, they even share very similar starter clothes.

SS Link already shares some sword skills that The Hero's Shade teaches to TP Link. So far, they share about 3-5 moves - the Ending Blow, the Shield Attack, the Great Spin and (from what I remember) either the Jump Strike or Mortal Draw.

TP doesn't mention the Hero of Time or a boy who traveled in time; it only mentions an "ancient hero" and "a messenger to the heavens." Impaz almost mistakens TP Link as the messenger due to his clothing, which further implies that this so-called messenger also wore the same garbs.

His armor and shield. The shield has a very unusual symbol on it, which closely resembles the symbols associated with the Oocca and the Twili/Interlopers. The chest plate is shaped like a bird's (or owl's) head. And today, I just discovered that even his helmet it supposed to resemble a bird. It's very hard to distinguish, so I'll post comparison pics later. As far as I know, OoT Link did not have a cultural association with birds (unless if you consider the Hylian Shield and Pegasus Boots to be evidence.) However, SS Link's society centers entirely around birds as a means of transportation. There are bird hieroglyphs everywhere and even their clothing has patterns or depictions of birds.

The new logo for Skyward. It's no longer gold, but decrepit stone with vines enveloping it. This is a throwback to the original Zelda logo, though it's possible that there could be more to this change. In TP, the Shade's corpse is covered in vines that look exactly like those associated with the new logo, still wearing his decrepit armor that looks as if it has aged and fallen apart over hundreds of years.


I don't know about you but it's looking more and more likely that the Hero's Shade was intended to be SS Link. If SS Link learns the Howling Stone songs with the use of Zelda's harp, then that pretty much sets it all in stone. It's the only solid piece of evidence left that could contradict this theory.

Originally Posted by Big One

Again, completely wrong, and bad analogy too. True ancient is a concept, but I would never say..

"Oh I'm going to read my favorite piece of ancient literature."
"What may that be?"
"Hamlet by William Shakespeare."

That is, by all means, not a correct use of the term, even though Hamlet is a couple hundred years old. Being ancient usually refers to stuff that is "lost," like say the dinosaurs or the ancient culture of Egypt.

The tunic is different, the bow is different, OoT Link wasn't even a real "legendary hero" in the CT. There's more than enough reasons to believe it isn't referring to the Hero of Time.

No Faron told TP Link that his tunic was similar.

i believe the hero stated is that of SS because he would exist on Both timelines. TP also has many references to the sky being the start of the hylians.

Originally Posted by Lex

Nope, that's definitely the power he's referring to. The Triforce of Courage specifically, if the transformation scene is any indication.

Yeah, it's clearly referring to SS Link.

I have a question:

If TP is in the child timeline, then wouldn't it make more sense if SS Link is the Hero's Shade? If OoT Link was sent back to his childhood before he obtained the 3 Spiritual Stones, then he didn't really do anything heroic outside of Termina (except warn about Ganondorf), as far as we know, right?

Originally Posted by Behind_the_Deku_Tree

I have a question:

If TP is in the child timeline, then wouldn't it make more sense if SS Link is the Hero's Shade? If OoT Link was sent back to his childhood before he obtained the 3 Spiritual Stones, then he didn't really do anything heroic outside of Termina (except warn about Ganondorf), as far as we know, right?

That's what An Hero of Time was talking about.

Of course, Link could've helped the Gorons again with their food crisis (and his Hero's Bow is left with the Gorons) and he could've helped the Zoras again.

I agree with the people that think SS Link could be the Hero's shade from Twilight Princess.

It sorta looks like Oot Link never became an ancient hero who saved Hyrule, like he did in Windwaker. In Windwaker he was mentioned all over the place while in Twilight Princess they speak of an ancient hero, being very vague. Eiji Aonuma even refers that Link only told Zelda the story and that they left Ganondorf alone. But Ganondorf did something outrages and he got excuted. It looks like Oot Link didn't do anything about it anyway.