Skyward Sword Speculation/Theory Thread (SPOILERS EXPECTED)

This would be fine if there wasn't a specific backstory about the bow saying it was from a previous hero.

Just look at the hylian shield in OOT and MM, they are the same and have different desings, MM use OOT engine. They can change the desings of items, tunics characters, etc...

The Hero of Time wasn't a hero in the Child Timeline, however. So the hero's bloodline would be irrelevant for him, even if TP Link is indeed a direct descendant.

He was a hero, he saved termina and saved hyrule after talking to zelda about ganondorf's plans.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

Just look at the hylian shield in OOT and MM, they are the same and have different desings, MM use OOT engine. They can change the desings of items, tunics characters, etc...

That I completely disagree with.

Just because it's called the same thing doesn't mean it actually is.

Let me paraphrase that: There could easily be multiple designs on a single item, or multiple incarnations. The Hylian shield, arguably, has changed throughout the series. This doesn't mean it was "retconned" it just means it's a different shield, with a different design, called a Hylian Shield. The one in MM is also retro-fitted for Link's small size, as is all the other new items he gets that he can't use as an adult.

The bow in TP, however, has a specific backstory that says a previous hero used it. The bow design is being used for SS, which gives me the impression that it's the same bow from TP or at least the TP bow is based off it (similar to the Hylian Shields being based off the ones from OoT).

Originally Posted by smallville boy

He was a hero, he saved termina and saved hyrule after talking to zelda about ganondorf's plans.

However he wasn't the "Hero of Time" or necessarily a great hero. Hell in the custcene flashback in MM, Zelda herself says she barely knows Link but is thankful for the time she has spent together with him. To me, that doesn't scream a "hero" necessarily. Also he may've saved Termina but that has nothing to do with Hylian matters.

Originally Posted by Big One

No, it's way too dark to determine that at all.

It's a little dark, but you can see that that Link clearly has TP Link's gauntlets and what appears to be chainmail popping out from underneath his tunic. The side profile also looks just like TP Link's. There's also Epona, who looks exactly like TP's version of the horse, right down to the saddle design.

Originally Posted by Jarsh

*snip*

It's a little dark, but you can see that that Link clearly has TP Link's gauntlets and what appears to be chainmail popping out from underneath his tunic. The side profile also looks just like TP Link's. There's also Epona, who looks exactly like TP's version of the horse, right down to the saddle design.

Nice a good picture of this for once.

Regardless it probably doesn't mean much. It could easily be just TP Link on TP Epona without any meaning.

If they really wanted to change it they would've with OoT 3DS.

Originally Posted by Big One

Nice a good picture of this for once.

Regardless it probably doesn't mean much. It could easily be just TP Link on TP Epona without any meaning.

If they really wanted to change it they would've with OoT 3DS.

I would think it would be a little redundant if they meant that to be TP Link while showing Wolf Link as well.

@BigOne
It's Link and Epona from OOT Dude,see the enterie video. sorry you loose again.

Also The skull kid from MM doesn't looks like the skull kid from OOT. I have a long list dude it just about redesing somenthing, the bow from TP could be the bow from the HoT.


Link from the CT is considered a hero

In the land of Hyrule, there
echoes a legend. A legend held
dearly by the Royal Family that
tells of a boy...

A boy who,
after battling evil and saving
Hyrule, crept away from the land
that had made him a legend...

Done with the battles he once
waged across time, he embarked
on a journey. A secret and
personal journey...

A journey in search of a
beloved and invaluable friend...

A friend with whom he parted
ways when he finally fulfilled his
heroic destiny and took his place
among legends...

Originally Posted by Big One

Nice a good picture of this for once.

Regardless it probably doesn't mean much. It could easily be just TP Link on TP Epona without any meaning.

If they really wanted to change it they would've with OoT 3DS.

I just updated it with a slightly clearer picture (forgot to save the snapshot as a .png instead of a .jpg). But yeah, I agree it probably doesn't mean much in terms of developer intent.

Originally Posted by Big One

Umm no that's not what I'm saying at all. This is what OoT Link canonically looks like:

This is in no way, reflective of TP Link's design. OoT Link wears an adult version of the Kokiri tunic. That's where his tunic comes from, not from an ancient hero like TP Link.

And ZZ keeps telling you that it is an graphic style change! Just like the MS so too can the tunic be different.

The color of OoT Adult Link might be based on the Kokiri at the time, but that doesn't mean it didn't have chainmail like TP's tunic. Besides on the child timeline Link did not magically receive his tunic and would have to make or get several new ones while he grows up.(Also the ancient hero might not be OoT Link but a Link from between OoT and TP. which would make this whole thing moot.)

Originally Posted by smallville boy

@BigOne
It's Link and Epona from OOT Dude,see the enterie video. sorry you loose again.

Yes because I entirely denied it was OoT Link. yep

Originally Posted by smallville boy

Also The skull kid from MM doesn't looks like the skull kid from OOT.

Complete and utterly wrong. Skull Kid looks EXACTLY like he does in OoT, only with Majora's Mask (in the games at least). The official art depicts a new hat however, but that's it. That could mean anything. It doesn't have to mean it's a redesign.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

Link from the CT is considered a hero

*snip*

That specific series of quotes specifically reference stuff that only happens in the AT, so I don't think so.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

And ZZ keeps telling you that it is an graphic style change! Just like the MS so too can the tunic be different.

Yes it's a graphical change, but TP Link's tunic comes from an "ancient hero." No matter how you put it, in TP's setting OoT Link isn't "ancient" just a couple of hundred years old.

Originally Posted by Big One

That specific series of quotes specifically reference stuff that only happens in the AT, so I don't think so.

Erm... Not to get involved in an argument that I'm not part of, but that's clearly not true. It says quite clearly:

In the land of Hyrule, there
echoes a legend. A legend held
dearly by the Royal Family that
tells of a boy...

Firstly, from this we can deduce that Link's adventures in OoT are legendary; obviously. And since MM takes place in the CT, we can see that even though he didn't do anything legendary in this timeline, he's still important enough that his story is 'held dearly by the royal family'

A boy who,
after battling evil and saving
Hyrule, crept away from the land
that had made him a legend...

This section basically states the same as the last one; that Link is known as a 'Legend', even though we know all the fighting he did happened in a different timeline.

Done with the battles he once
waged across time, he embarked
on a journey. A secret and
personal journey...

A journey in search of a
beloved and invaluable friend...

A friend with whom he parted
ways when he finally fulfilled his
heroic destiny and took his place
among legends...

'Fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends'. There. Canonical proof that Link in the Child Timeline of OoT and MM WAS considered both a Hero and a Legend, thereby discrediting your belief that the Ancient Hero referred to in TP can't have been him. And the line about 'battles waged across time' or whatever indicates that his heroism isn't recognized in only one timeline.

Note: I'm not saying it is him; it could very well be Link from SS. But if you're going to argue something, don't deny truths that we all know to be fact.

Yes it's a graphical change, but TP Link's tunic comes from an "ancient hero." No matter how you put it, in TP's setting OoT Link isn't "ancient" just a couple of hundred years old.

This is, at least, debatable. Exactly how old something has to be to be considered 'Ancient' is subject to opinion. Besides, Zelda is a medieval game; I'm sure everything outside of living memory is ancient to these people

Originally Posted by smallville boy

It was split to hide it from ganondorf's hands tetra/zelda was the last link in the royal bloodline, Zelda from TP inheredit the ToW from the previous princess zelda.

1) Yes, it was split to hide it from Ganon and passed along the royal bloodline. As a physical object. Handed from parent to child. Worn around the neck on a string. That they were all related had nothing to do with it. They could just as well have given it to somebody else. Ergo, it's not evidence that simply being descended from a holder grants you ownership.

2) We don't know how the Triforces got to ANYBODY in Twilight Princess. We can speculate about how it was split and that's all. We don't know where the pieces were before they were with the characters who end up with them. Furthermore, we don't know when they were split. It's simply not addressed. None of it. Not even hinted at. Ever.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

TP Link inheredit from the ancient hero spoke in TP(aka the hero of time). They share the same bloodline

They sure do share a bloodline. Hylian Knights and all that. Proving Link is related to ancient heroes doesn't prove where his Triforce of Courage came from, however. Not at all.

Furthermore, the quote you provide as evidence that Link inherited the Triforce from the ancient hero has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Triforce. It has everything to do with skills that he is learning to use and absolutely nothing else. All it claims for him to have inherited is the capacity for Implausible Fencing Powers.

The ancient hero of Twilight Princess might be Skyward Sword Link, the sheeth of the mastersword indicated this.





Now check the sheeth of Ocarina of time Link, it's different.

Originally Posted by Zesty Crouton

Erm... Not to get involved in an argument that I'm not part of, but that's clearly not true. It says quite clearly:

In the land of Hyrule, there
echoes a legend. A legend held
dearly by the Royal Family that
tells of a boy...

Firstly, from this we can deduce that Link's adventures in OoT are legendary; obviously. And since MM takes place in the CT, we can see that even though he didn't do anything legendary in this timeline, he's still important enough that his story is 'held dearly by the royal family'

A boy who,
after battling evil and saving
Hyrule, crept away from the land
that had made him a legend...

This section basically states the same as the last one; that Link is known as a 'Legend', even though we know all the fighting he did happened in a different timeline.

Done with the battles he once
waged across time, he embarked
on a journey. A secret and
personal journey...

A journey in search of a
beloved and invaluable friend...

A friend with whom he parted
ways when he finally fulfilled his
heroic destiny and took his place
among legends...

'Fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends'. There. Canonical proof that Link in the Child Timeline of OoT and MM WAS considered both a Hero and a Legend, thereby discrediting your belief that the Ancient Hero referred to in TP can't have been him. And the line about 'battles waged across time' or whatever indicates that his heroism isn't recognized in only one timeline.

Note: I'm not saying it is him; it could very well be Link from SS. But if you're going to argue something, don't deny truths that we all know to be fact.

No not even close. It doesn't say any of that happened on the CT at all whatsoever. Matter of fact the entire quote refers to his adventure on the AT. It doesn't say people know about it on the CT, just that his adventures was known throughout the kingdom itself aka which is probably only in the AT. That's all it says and all we can deduce from that.

Originally Posted by Zesty Crouton

This is, at least, debatable. Exactly how old something has to be to be considered 'Ancient' is subject to opinion. Besides, Zelda is a medieval game; I'm sure everything outside of living memory is ancient to these people

This is ancient:



(ca. 1333–1323 BC)

This isn't ancient:



(c. 1503–1519)

Originally Posted by Big One

This is ancient:

(ca. 1333–1323 BC)

This isn't ancient:

(c. 1503–1519)

You can't just say what is ancient or not and expect everyone else to hold the same views as you. This has turn into a semantics debate, of which no-one is completely right or wrong. We have to use developer quotes or ingame evidence about this.

As such these are the current facts that we know:

Faron says that the power that sleeps within TP Link was also the ancient hero's power.

When OoT Link was sent to the past the Triforce was split for some reason or other.

OoT is the first game where the Triforce is split(In the adult timeline and child timeline... for now anyway, who knows in the future.).

End of facts(at least those that are the most relevant.).

From that we have to make assumptions, Either:

1. OoT Link is the ancient hero.

2. A Link between OoT and TP is the ancient hero.

3.The Triforce was split and eventually became whole before OoT and a Link during that time is the ancient hero.


If we take Occam's Razor into account then it would be in the same order that ZZ listed the assumptions.



Side note that is somewhat relevant: Can someone pin down that developer quote what said that the Zora king in TP(which is dead) is the same one as OoT Zora King?

Edit : Nevermind ZZ found it:

-There’s a reference to King Zora (the king of the Zora race in Ocarina of Time; his official name is Do Bon, the third), and there are some pictures of the man from the fishing pond (the owner of a fishing business near Lake Hylia in Ocarina of Time). You can get the feeling here and there that the events from Ocarina of Time happened some time ago.

Aonuma: Those things have a connection to Ocarina of Time, and we were not very sure of whether to include them or not, but the staff was having a good time, so those details just kept increasing.

So there is a decent chance that King Zora from is the dead king in TP, and that he made the Zora Armor for the chosen hero... Of course one can also say that he made the armor before OoT...

Why does most things in Zelda never have firm ground! v_v ... T_T

ZZ doesn't know what to think of this... What happen to Ruto then? Wouldn't she be the natural successor for the throne? And even if the King remarried, and Ruto no longer have the first rights for the throne(for whatever reason.), she would have been at least the the temp. ruler before Ralis could take the throne. >.>

There is only one way ZZ can think that might make this work... Ruto never got out of Jabu Jabu and was killed in there, forcing the king to remarry to produce an heir. *and the people who hate Ruto rejoice!*

Of course do to them being uncertain on whether to include them or not, might give them leeway to change their mind and say they are not the same, but then the Zora Armor that was made for the chosen hero would have only been made after OoT.

Originally Posted by Big One

Fair enough. Can we at least agree that TP Link is probably based on SS Link however? Most people thought it was the Hero of Time for the longest time now.

That is my theory as well

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Actually you forgot one important person. Faron.

When you collect his Light and give it back to him he tells you :

1. That when Link turn into a beast that it was a sign that the powers of the chosen one was within him and that they are awakening.

2. TP Link's garb is from an ancient hero that was chosen by the gods.

So, you think the previous tunic owner was the skeletal guy who teaches TP Link his sword moves?

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

You can't just say what is ancient or not and expect everyone else to hold the same views as you.

Complete and utterly wrong. I didn't decide certain things to be "ancient." Ancient by definition usually refers to thinks that are at least 1000 years old or around that range. Thinks that occurred 100+ years ago simply =/= being ancient whatsoever. It completely destroys the intent of what it means to be "ancient." Sure some people can sarcastically say ♥♥♥♥ like type-writers are "ancient" but this isn't the context Zelda uses the word "ancient" when it refers to the hero.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

As such these are the current facts that we know:

Faron says that the power that sleeps within TP Link was also the ancient hero's power.

When OoT Link was sent to the past the Triforce was split for some reason or other.

OoT is the first game where the Triforce is split(In the adult timeline and child timeline... for now anyway, who knows in the future.).

End of facts(at least those that are the most relevant.).

The bolded isn't a fact. We do not know if the Triforce was split when OoT Link was sent in the past. Nor do we know he took it back with him (a Triforce mark doesn't necessarily mean he has the Triforce of Courage).

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

From that we have to make assumptions, Either:

1. OoT Link is the ancient hero.

2. A Link between OoT and TP is the ancient hero.

3.The Triforce was split and eventually became whole before OoT and a Link during that time is the ancient hero.

If we take Occam's Razor into account then it would be in the same order that ZZ listed the assumptions.

All of those are terrible assumptions and have nothing to do with occam's razor. What you're doing is making up facts and passing them off as legitimate.

Now I am one of the school of thought that there are two different forms of Link: The spiritual Link and the physical Link. By this I mean that while OoT Link may be the ancestor of TP Link, in spirit he takes the form of SS Link instead (hence similar appearance). In the same vein, the Hero of Men and TMC Link are spiritually linked, but FS Link may be a physical descendant of TMC Link. ALttP Link may be spiritually linked to OoT Link, but is a physical ancestor of LoZ Link.

Because of this the nature of "Link" in the serious is very mysterious and could go a lot of ways. Now before SS it was valid to think the hero might've been referring to the Hero of Time, but even so it's still contradictory cause the Hero of Time's exploits weren't simply well known or emphasized in the Child Timeline than they were in the Adult Timeline.

Originally Posted by Big One

Thinks that occurred 100+ years ago simply =/= being ancient whatsoever.

You mustn't have taken Japanese, because all they said was century/centuries. Of which it can easily be close to 1000 years.

The bolded isn't a fact. We do not know if the Triforce was split when OoT Link was sent in the past. Nor do we know he took it back with him (a Triforce mark doesn't necessarily mean he has the Triforce of Courage).

What ZZ meant was that the Triforce split for some reason or other around to shortly after the time OoT Link was sent back. ZZ worded it incorrectly, and for that he apologize.

All of those are terrible assumptions and have nothing to do with occam's razor.

Yet those are only the basic assumptions that we can make when we try to figure out who the ancient hero is.

And while Occam's Razor does mainly deal with hypothesis, that doesn't mean we can't use it for other theories. Use it to tend towards simpler theories until we hit something that explains things more.

What you're doing is making up facts and passing them off as legitimate.

And when did ZZ ever do that? What facts is ZZ 'making up'?

The facts that ZZ listed are just that: facts.(except for the one that ZZ incorrectly worded out, but the meaning he was trying to achieve is.)

Originally Posted by Big One

No not even close. It doesn't say any of that happened on the CT at all whatsoever. Matter of fact the entire quote refers to his adventure on the AT. It doesn't say people know about it on the CT, just that his adventures was known throughout the kingdom itself aka which is probably only in the AT. That's all it says and all we can deduce from that.

What the french toast are you talking about? It doesn't have to say anywhere that it takes place in the CT, because MM is the first game (at least that we know of) that takes place solely on the CT, so OBVIOUSLY this is happening in the CT. Furthermore, this quote isn't talking about his adventures in the AT, but rather throughout the entirety of OoT, both AT and CT. And of course it says he's well known throughout the kingdom; what part of 'held dearly by the royal family' did you fail to comprehend? It doesn't say 'held dearly by the royal family in a different, parallel dimension', and we know that this legend the quote is referring to can't be OoT Link from the AT because it says that he 'crept away from the land that made him a legend' to search for Navi (presumably), which happens in the CT, not the AT. The Hyrulian Royal family in the AT would have no way of knowing Link flees Hyrule to search for his fairy in the CT. Now you're just being stubborn.

Also, you misused 'AKA'

This is ancient:



This isn't ancient:

On that point, I will concede to you. I won't get involved in what ZZ is saying about Japanese/English translation discrepancies; I only play the English versions

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

You mustn't have taken Japanese, because all they said was century/centuries. Of which it can easily be close to 1000 years.

There are no plural in Japanese, TP either takes place 100 years after OoT or a couple hundred years. It honestly doesn't matter, cause neither of those are considered to be ancient.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

What ZZ meant was that the Triforce split for some reason or other around to shortly after the time OoT Link was sent back. ZZ worded it incorrectly, and for that he apologize.

Yeah no, we don't know how the Triforce split on the CT at all whatsoever. We can't make assumptions about this.

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

Yet those are only the basic assumptions that we can make when we try to figure out who the ancient hero is.

Not really, now that we have SS to work with. There's so many contradictions with the Hero of Time being the "ancient hero" it hurts, including the "ancient" aspect of it. The Hero of Time is NOT ancient, unless "ancient" means something different in Hyrule than it does in the real world. He was ancient in Wind Waker, but in TP we have no way to determine if they're referring to the Hero of Time and signs point to them referring more to SS Link than the Hero of Time. Is this really so hard to understand for you? Tell me, what signs point to the "ancient hero" being the Hero of Time?

Originally Posted by ZeldaZealot

And when did ZZ ever do that? What facts is ZZ 'making up'?

OoT Link splitting the Triforce is, indeed, a made-up fact.

Originally Posted by Zesty Crouton

What the french toast are you talking about? It doesn't have to say anywhere that it takes place in the CT, because MM is the first game (at least that we know of) that takes place solely on the CT, so OBVIOUSLY this is happening in the CT. Furthermore, this quote isn't talking about his adventures in the AT, but rather throughout the entirety of OoT, both AT and CT.

Okay stop right there buddy. It seems you have a failed understanding what the CT is.

NONE of the events of OoT happened on the CT, the CT is only the child ending. Nothing that happens in the game happens in the CT. Ocarina of Time itself is exclusively on the AT.

Originally Posted by Zesty Crouton

And of course it says he's well known throughout the kingdom; what part of 'held dearly by the royal family' did you fail to comprehend? It doesn't say 'held dearly by the royal family in a different, parallel dimension', and we know that this legend the quote is referring to can't be OoT Link from the AT because it says that he 'crept away from the land that made him a legend' to search for Navi (presumably), which happens in the CT, not the AT. The Hyrulian Royal family in the AT would have no way of knowing Link flees Hyrule to search for his fairy in the CT. Now you're just being stubborn.

You're still not understanding anything. The events in those paragraphs refer to the events that occurred in Ocarina of Time, which didn't occur on the CT. It is, in no way, meant to be an indicator of something that happened in an exclusive timeline. Matter of fact it specifically says Link went back in time, which is something - if meant to be scribed by Hylian hands (it isn't) - that no one would know about. In other words all it is telling us what happened to Link before the events of Majora's Mask to the reader. It isn't really meant to be a real indicator of timeline hijinks. The way it's wrote treats Zelda like a story, and that's the intent. It's a writer telling his story to the reader.

Originally Posted by Big One

There are no plural in Japanese, TP either takes place 100 years after OoT or a couple hundred years. It honestly doesn't matter, cause neither of those are considered to be ancient.

Except that 'centuries' can be consider ancient because 'ancient' is a semantics sort of thing. We can look at an old person and think that they are ancient, yet they are less than 150 years old. It pretty much have the same problem as the definition of planets(If one is strict and uses the current definition then technically Jupiter is not considered a planet.).

Like planet, ancient is more of a concept rather than a define set of age.

Is this really so hard to understand for you?

Yes, because ZZ sees no contradictions. Where are you seeing them(besides the 'ancient' thing.)?

Tell me, what signs point to the "ancient hero" being the Hero of Time?

ZZ showed you. Faron telling TP Link that his powers(which turned him into a wolf) are the same as the ancient hero's.

And unless you believe that the Triforce split before OoT, or that which turn TP Link into a wolf is not the ToC, then it has to refer to OoT Link or a Link between OoT and TP.

Yeah no, we don't know how the Triforce split on the CT at all whatsoever. We can't make assumptions about this.

OoT Link splitting the Triforce is, indeed, a made-up fact.

-_-

You need to reread what ZZ said. ZZ never said that. He said that the Triforce split around or shortly after the time Link was sent back to the past, not that Link was the one that split it.