The Hero's Shade IS The Hero of Time.

Originally Posted by Cayenne Pepper

Oh, aaaand HoT Link knows how to get out of Lost Woods. He doesn't get lost.

I can't remember where I read this, but I think that the Kokiri kids didn't get lost because they had fairies to guide their way through the woods. Link didn't have Navi or Tatl to lead him back to Hyrule.

Except now that I think about it, how did he find his way to Termina in the first place without a fairy? -_-

- Oh, and the quote, "Go and do not falter, my child." doesn't prove at all that Link is a descendant from the guy. Renado called Link "my son" in one of the cutscenes, but that doesn't mean that he's his father!
- And one other thing I'd like to point out is that the way that the Hero's Shade's feet move when he "z-targets" TP Link. I actually think that they move similarly to OoT/MM Link's feet movements when he z-targets.
- Plus, I don't see any similarity with his sword and shield with MM Link's sword and shield. Whoever made that up must be seeing things, because there is absolutely no face on there. Period.
But I still think the Hero's Shade is MM Link. ^.^

TP Link is certainly a descendant of OOT Link unless it's retconned that the hero people kept talking about was some other Link.

So therefore, he got out of the forest and had children/a child.

I've given this a little more thought... And I'm starting to see a way the Shade could be Link without having to have been lost in the forest. So let's say Link finally does make it out of the woods, marries and has kids (possibly founding Ordon with Malon in the process), maybe continues fighting a bit, lives out his life and dies a peaceful death. Like The Janitor suggested, his kid(s) will obviously grow up hearing about how their dad was the chosen hero, the one who prevented Hyrule's Great Cataclysm by warning the Royal Family of Ganondorf's oncoming invasion and his own tales about traveling to Termina and his ensuing adventures there. Keep in mind, this is a time of peace. The Imprisoning War isn't happening on the Child Timeline, maybe a few monsters here and there or lingering followers of Ganondorf he'd have to take care of. Not exactly "the chosen hero" criteria for fighting. So Link wouldn't need to bother teaching his children the "serious" way of the sword, attacks that they would need when defending Hyrule and themselves when on the brink of war. But nobody ever saw Hyrule ever returning to a time of battle anytime soon, and so the child(ren) of the Hero of Time are not prepared for what may be coming when Ganondorf returns from the Twilight Realm. Link (HoT) sees this, and thus his spirit manifests into a ghost (Stalfos, whatever) of his former self, scarred with the wounds of fighting (The Shade is missing an eye) and not able to "cross over" as he knows his son (Link of TP) is not ready for what he'll have to face as the wielder of the Triforce of Courage. So, as the distressed spirit the Shade, he teaches Link his own ways of the sword for the battles that lie ahead, using the Gossip/Wind Stones that he used as the Hero of Time himself during his missions in future Hyrule and Termina.

Keep in mind I'm not just using the "go and do not falter my child" line as a basis for this. You also have to keep in mind that most of the Wind Stone songs are those from OoT and MM, the Golden Wolf possibly shows another connection between the Shade and Link, considering when Link is in the Twilight world, he takes the form of a dreary gray wolf (Like the Twilight.) When the Shade is in the World of Light, basically the entire mortal world, he takes the form of a golden wolf (Like light!) See how the different wolf forms of the different Links would correspond to which realm they're in? Why is it the Shade also takes the form of a wolf when he changes realms, just like Link does, but this only happens to the two of them?

Originally Posted by TrustMe101

I can't remember where I read this, but I think that the Kokiri kids didn't get lost because they had fairies to guide their way through the woods. Link didn't have Navi or Tatl to lead him back to Hyrule.

Except now that I think about it, how did he find his way to Termina in the first place without a fairy? -_-

Kokiri do not become monsters, or get lost because they are not human children. They are immortal Forest Spirits in humanoid forms. :]

Link found Termina purely because he literally followed the Skullkid there after the latter stole Epona.


It's not really disclosed if Link managed to get back to Hyrule or not, but given the end of the game - Skullkid telling Link he was the one Link played Saria's song with in the Lost woods, and that the final shot was of the stump similar (perhaps implied to be the same one) Link stood on in OoT with Skullkid's drawings on it, I reckon that implies he made it back to the Lost Woods at least.

Originally Posted by TrustMe101

Except now that I think about it, how did he find his way to Termina in the first place without a fairy? -_-

He didn't chose to go to Termina.
He was in The Lost Woods, he got knocked out by Skull Kid, he grabbed onto Epona, he fell into an abyss, he followed a pathway, he exited the tower, and was in Clock Town.

He never wanted to go there.

Where does it say that OoT Link and TP Link are related?

It doesn't specifically, but Zelda and Link both inherited their Triforce pieces from ancestors, so it's widely accepted they're closely related.

Originally Posted by Erik Destler

Oh, Ganondorf killed them? Where was that stated? :p

Fight one and talk to it's flame thing.

We would have been famous, if
that hateful Ganondorf had not
tried to steal our results.
We could never let him reap the
fruits of our research!
That's why we gave our lives to
protect the secret.

It may not have been by his own hand, necessarily, but he's who got 'em killed.

Originally Posted by LoneWolfTao

It doesn't specifically, but Zelda and Link both inherited their Triforce pieces from ancestors, so it's widely accepted they're closely related.

Actually, we don't know that.
The only time the story ever shows a Triforce being inherited from an ancestor is Zelda's hunk of the ToW in WW. And that was as a physical object, not just its power.

Plus, in MM, the Hero of Time didn't carry the Triforce of Courage and so could not have handed it down.

He didn't? I thought it was canon that the Triforce pieces carried over with the split timeline to what would have been their respective holders, but the ToC left Link when he entered Termina because it wasn't the land of the goddesses. (See also the Hylian Dan theory...)

Originally Posted by LoneWolfTao

He didn't? I thought it was canon that the Triforce pieces carried over with the split timeline to what would have been their respective holders, but the ToC left Link when he entered Termina because it wasn't the land of the goddesses. (See also the Hylian Dan theory...)

It left him before he entered Termina, else he'd have had it in the Lost Woods at the start of MM. But, as you can plainly see, nowhere in MM does he ever have a Triforce mark on the back of his hand.
But we know he had it before MM because he's got it at the end of OoT at the start of the CT.

MM mentions something about Link leaving behind the elements that made him a hero, so that probably means he lost the Triforce of Courage either because it's one of the elements or because the elements are what made it bind to him.

But what if it returned to him after returning to Hyrule?

I should add that the Triforce marking has only ever appeared on the back of the wielder's hand when they're in the presence of another bearer of a Triforce piece. That it was absent in MM may not have meant anything.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

I should add that the Triforce marking has only ever appeared on the back of the wielder's hand when they're in the presence of another bearer of a Triforce piece. That it was absent in MM may not have meant anything.

Not so - TP Link's resonated when he entered the Twilight with only Midna present, and on OoX (and other Zelda games) Link had the Triforce mark on his hands without actually having a triforce or coming into contact with it or other bearers, as he was a hero chosen by the triforce.

Also, according to WW's original, japanese prologue, after the HoT was sent back to his original timeline by Zelda, the instant she sent him back, his body was sent back in time, but his triforce remained, which would eventually be shattered and scattered for WW Link to find in the Adult Timeline.

THerefore, if you take the hints Nintendo give seriously, the Triforce mark on OoT Link's hand at the end of the game is simply the mark of the hero, rather than his actual ownership of it. As said, he doesn't have the triforce. It remained in the AT.

I don't believe there is one actually forged timeline and that Nintendo be trollin' y'all, but there you go.

OoT Link doesn't have the Triforce anymore after Zelda sends him back.

It seems more like the ToC mark, with one triangle glowing brighter, only appears when in use or close to another holder. The one in Oracles isn't really relevant to this discussion as it doesn't indicate possession of a particular piece.

I'd say Link can still have it in Termina and not have it flash up.

Fair point on the OoX argument. :]

However, how can he have it in Termina if for the events of WW to take place in the AT, the Triforce must stay in the AT itself?

It was confirmed that WW is in the AT and TP on the CT, and again, the WW prologue states that when Zelda sent Link back to his original time, the ToC stayed in the AT.

Link cannot have it in Termina then, as the ToC is held in another timeline.

I imagine the Triforce on the child line split and gave each holder their respective piece. The holders then pass it down their family lines for the next users.
As for why the Triforce on the CT split for no reason, that's still the territory of wild mass guessing.

Originally Posted by SuperDecimal

Fair point on the OoX argument. :]

However, how can he have it in Termina if for the events of WW to take place in the AT, the Triforce must stay in the AT itself?

It was confirmed that WW is in the AT and TP on the CT, and again, the WW prologue states that when Zelda sent Link back to his original time, the ToC stayed in the AT.

Link cannot have it in Termina then, as the ToC is held in another timeline.

In Majora's Mask, being sent back in time causes Link to lose his common possessions like rupees and ammunition but makes him keep special, unique items such as dungeon treasures, masks, his Bombers Notebook, and his Ocarina of Time. When you re-earn something from a person they recognize that you already have one, when you re-open a chest it just has some rupees inside; the object moves from it's place it belongs to go to Link when he goes to the clock tower leaving a mundane object in its place.
So when Link travels back in time (in MM) ownership travels back with him and stuff changes to accommodate that so unique items stay unique.
Since something else takes there place, it can be assumed that they switched when he shows spontaneously owning them. So instead of taking his possessions back with him, possessions recognize him as their owner and go to him.

And this isn't just a gameplay thing, either, it happens in-story: during cutscenes in which the skull kid carries the Ocarina of Time in the first cycle he instead carries a simple skull kids' flute.

This is not in any way how the time travel in Ocarina of Time worked. Actually, no aspect of MM's was the same as OoT's. And no aspect of OoA's was the same as either of them. This is because the three use different tools. OoT's ending has Zelda sending Link back using the Ocarina of Time, making it the same tool as MM, meaning it may follow the same rules.

In short, ownership of the Triforce of Courage traveled back with Link, as things do in MM. Since the actual object does not travel back the Triforce of Courage remained in the AT, since the object moves from its rightful place the Triforce of Courage from the Child Ending's point of time came to Link.

WIsh I had something more substantial to say other than; Yup, I like that.

Explains why TP Link has the protection and influence of the Triforce without actually physically possessing it, yet being able to channel it in certain situations, while in WW, the shattered Triforce lay in wait for WW Link to reassemble it, then ultimately resonate and reunite with Zelda and Ganondrf's.

I would just note that the fact Link retains key items and masks, etc, is just a convenient gaming choice and nothing deeper than that, seeing that MM's Time travel is just resetting, rather that going back and forth an otherwise linear timestream like in OoT, and that something that transcends spacetime like the Triforce is more plausible to remain with Link as it breaks through dimensional barriers.

I'd probably also say that the Triforce never 'came to Link' as much as that after it was re-united and whole in WW, it then departed to some other Realm exclusive of the timelines, like the Sacred Realm, and that's where afterwards, another Link, like from the CT, would find it.

I suppose if you embrace the reincarnation theory, then all Links and Zeldas, by divine right, being reincarnations from OoT, inherit ownership of the triforce, and if do not actually possess it, are able to channel it.

Originally Posted by SuperDecimal

Not so - TP Link's resonated when he entered the Twilight with only Midna present, and on OoX (and other Zelda games) Link had the Triforce mark on his hands without actually having a triforce or coming into contact with it or other bearers, as he was a hero chosen by the triforce.

Sorry, I forgot to add "in OoT" to that statement.

Also, according to WW's original, japanese prologue, after the HoT was sent back to his original timeline by Zelda, the instant she sent him back, his body was sent back in time, but his triforce remained, which would eventually be shattered and scattered for WW Link to find in the Adult Timeline.

THerefore, if you take the hints Nintendo give seriously, the Triforce mark on OoT Link's hand at the end of the game is simply the mark of the hero, rather than his actual ownership of it. As said, he doesn't have the triforce. It remained in the AT.

Naturally the Triforce of Courage had to remain on the Adult side, as it is featured quite prominently in WW.

Keep in mind, however, that the Triforce exists on both sides of the timeline, and by the time of TP it has been split between Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. The only hint TP gives us as to how it happened, is the "divine prank". The nature of said "prank" has been debated quite a bit, but the most common theory I've come across is that the Triforce split between the three chosen wielders on the child timeline when Link returned to his original time. No indication is given in TP that Ganondorf laid claim to the Triforce of Power (he doesn't even seem to know he has it before he is executed, and the Sages don't know about it either, which they should have if he had invaded the Sacred Realm and stolen it).

So pretty much what Mandrag has already said.

Keep in mind, however, that the Triforce exists on both sides of the timeline, and by the time of TP it has been split between Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. The only hint TP gives us as to how it happened, is the "divine prank". The nature of said "prank" has been debated quite a bit, but the most common theory I've come across is that the Triforce split between the three chosen wielders on the child timeline when Link returned to his original time. No indication is given in TP that Ganondorf laid claim to the Triforce of Power (he doesn't even seem to know he has it before he is executed, and the Sages don't know about it either, which they should have if he had invaded the Sacred Realm and stolen it).

Ah, that's where we differ, I guess. :]
I believe that the Triforce only exists physically in one timeline at a time. While the inheriting of its powers is shared between the two Link/Zelda entities, by effectively being reincarnations of the same route character, it itself can only be physically acquired and kept by one person at a time. I think we all agree that the TF can transcend space and time, which means it'd be nonsensical that the TF would split into two alternate version like the Link and Zelda and Ganondorfs do. It cannot be subjected to the limitations it effectively cuts through, so there can only be one set of three TF pieces at a time.

As for the divine prank, my personal interpretation - emphasis on personal - was simply that because there is indeed only one TF that can transcend time and space, and because Ganon was sealed in the AT in the sacred realm, although CT Ganondorf was executed, the fact that his other self, owned the TF and had acquired it, he also inherited its powers. TP Ganondorf never had the TF himself, as the Ganon entity he shared his essence with in the other Timeline had it - and as said, the Triforce is not split into two versions like the timeline itself - but he by divine right inherited some of its powers.

As for Link and Zelda, as with other games, they indeed had the mark of the TF on their hands, but I saw this more, like Ganondorf, that they inherited/were chosen by the TF, rather than actually owning it. Link's TF is never seen again (correct me if I'm wrong) after it shields him from the Twilight. And when the three unite in the Throne room, the three Triforce pieces to not present themselves and resonate, as Ganondorf says it does in WW, which it does, and also in OoT in Ganon's Tower.

So, I reckon that none of them have the TF, but inherited some of its powers as their other selves, sharing their same soul, physically possess it, and that energy is channeled across the timeline. Even if One of them had a piece, the others didn't because from what I remember, the thee pieces to not reveal themselves or resonate.