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Old 06-03-2010, 02:45 PM
War Machine War Machine is a male Canada War Machine is offline
MrBaconsock, Totakeke
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OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

I was just wondering, could Link move from the future to the past whenever he wanted to, by simply putting the master sword back in its pedestal? Was the ability to time travel at will just a gameplay element that doesn't actually happen in the story?

I'm a bit confused, because if he could always do that, why did he have to be sent back to the past with the Ocarina of Time?
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Last Edited by War Machine; 06-03-2010 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Vaeringar Vaeringar is a male Sweden Vaeringar is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Everything that lead to the events of the Adult timeline to occur, i.e. Ganondorf getting into the Sacred Realm and taking over Hyrule, happend as a result of Link pulling the Master Sword.
Whenever Link puts the Master Sword back into the pedestal, he'll return to after he intially pulled the Master Sword.
This means during gameplay, you are timetraveling within a stable time loop.

However, at end of the game, Zelda sends Link back in time before he intially pulled the Master Sword. Because of this, the seal on the Sacred Realm remained intact. Because Link was sent back before he was sent foward in time by pulling the Master Sword, the stable time loop has been broken, and we have ourself a wonderfull little split.

In short.
Placing the Master Sword back will result in Link returning to after he pulled the Master Sword.
Zelda sending Link back resulted in him returning to before he ever pulled the Master Sword, actively preventing events on the AT from happening.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:24 PM
StinksAwakening United States StinksAwakening is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Yes, Time Travel is canon. According to the Wind Waker backstory, Link was well-known for his ability to travel across time.

Here's a quote from Wind Waker.

Quote:
But then, when all hope had died, and the
hour of doom seemed at hand...
...a young boy clothed in green appeared
as if from nowhere.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed
the dark one away and gave the land light.
This boy, who traveled through time to save
the land, was known as the Hero of Time.
Last Edited by StinksAwakening; 06-03-2010 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:35 PM
War Machine War Machine is a male Canada War Machine is offline
MrBaconsock, Totakeke
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

@Nerushi: So when Link puts the master sword back and becomes a kid again, Ganondorf has already entered the sacred realm and stolen the Triforce of Power?
Is there anything in the game or from developer quotes that support that explanation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Stink To The Past View Post
Yes, Time Travel is canon. According to the Wind Waker backstory, Link was well-known for his ability to travel across time.

Here's a quote from Wind Waker.
I always just thought that quote was referring to Link reappearing after 7 years.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:57 PM
Vaeringar Vaeringar is a male Sweden Vaeringar is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

MrBaconsock: Ganondorf probably didn't immediately enter the Sacred Realm. But, by pulling the Master Sword, Link opened the 'Door of Time'. Evidently, just putting the Master Sword back won't change this, as Link can still just pull the Master Sword again and be back where he was as adult.

Zelda says
All of the tragedy up to this point has been my fault… I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience… I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake. Lay the Master Sword to sleep… and close the “Door of Time”.
But… When you do, the road to travel in time will also close…

Link, Give the ocarina to me… Right now, I, as a sage, can return you to your original era with this Ocarina of Time.


By sending Link back to his original era with the Ocarina herself, they were separated as the road to time travel was shut. Pulling the Master Sword again from that point would most likely result in Link having to repeat the events of the AT again.
Last Edited by Vaeringar; 06-03-2010 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Impossible Impossible is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Nerushi is completely right. Link travels back and forth on a single timeline in OoT. The Song of Storms, while paradoxical, is a great example of this. In general, Link can alter the past, and it will affect the future. This is clearly canon.

What I do think has to be the case is that when Link goes back in time, it is already too late to stop Ganondorf. So he has probably already entered the Sacred Realm by then. At the end of the game, Link goes back to BEFORE drawing the Master Sword.

I've talked about (and seen others talk about) a couple of theories before regarding what differentiates the ending from the other instances of time travel that causes the timeline to split, but I don't remember them that well right now. You could basically see all those earlier events as being fated to occur, but what Link and Zelda did at the end clearly completely changed fate, not only for them, but for all of Hyrule. Something that huge had to cause a timeline split. In particular, there's also the fact that Link's future knowledge was required in order to stop Ganondorf, so it would be a huge paradox if those events never occurred. (See Lavos and the alternate future in Chrono Trigger.)
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LttP told us that the gods put the Triforce in the Sacred Realm at creation, and that when the realm was discovered in the Seal War, the Triforce was still there.
[....]
There's no reason why LttP's backstory, being apparently oral tradition, would have to be accurate at all.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Ganonslayer2000 Ganonslayer2000 is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerushi View Post
Zelda says
All of the tragedy up to this point has been my fault… I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience… I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake. Lay the Master Sword to sleep… and close the “Door of Time”.
But… When you do, the road to travel in time will also close…

Link, Give the ocarina to me… Right now, I, as a sage, can return you to your original era with this Ocarina of Time.

I'm sure when Zelda told Link to lay the MS to rest and close the DOT, she was telling him to do this in the Adult Timeline since he can't carry the MS to put it back in the pedestal as a little boy anyway. Then she tells Link that the roads between times would be closed and thus he would be stuck in the Adult Timeline as a forest child in an adult body. Then there is a noticeable awkward pause and it is only then that Zelda finally decides to make the polite suggestion to restore Link's lost childhood with the ocarina. Hence the split timeline.
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No! Link will be a pedophile in the child timeline mark ZeldaZealot words!!!
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the Hero of Time was, technically, truly retarded.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:47 AM
War Machine War Machine is a male Canada War Machine is offline
MrBaconsock, Totakeke
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganonslayer2000 View Post
I'm sure when Zelda told Link to lay the MS to rest and close the DOT, she was telling him to do this in the Adult Timeline since he can't carry the MS to put it back in the pedestal as a little boy anyway. Then she tells Link that the roads between times would be closed and thus he would be stuck in the Adult Timeline as a forest child in an adult body. Then there is a noticeable awkward pause and it is only then that Zelda finally decides to make the polite suggestion to restore Link's lost childhood with the ocarina. Hence the split timeline.
This is what I thought was meant as well. However, this can't be the case, because whenever Link puts the master sword back in the AT, he becomes young Link again.
It's another reason to question whether or not Link was actually able to time travel at will.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:53 AM
Ganonslayer2000 Ganonslayer2000 is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

True, but then again when Zelda returns Link back to his own time, the MS is already in its pedestal. So I truly doubt when Zelda told Link to lay the MS and close the DOT, she meant for him to do this in the Child Timeline. Not to mention she took the ocarina from Link before she restored his childhood anyway. So if he was originally intended to CLOSE THE DOT with the ocarina, he could have only did this in the Adult Timeline.

I still think Zelda saying "I will make up for my past mistake" could easily be interpreted as her just simply saying that she intends to rebuild Hyrule and become a more wise ruler in the Adult Timeline. I just have my doubts that it automatically meant that she had already made up her mind that she was going to restore Link's childhood.
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Last Edited by Ganonslayer2000; 06-04-2010 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Ojlink9 Ojlink9 is a male Ojlink9 is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

I think the intended question was whether or not the two instances of time travel in Ocarina of Time is Canon or not. Like how the OoT Manga has Link simply adventure in the AT and, at the end, being put back to his child self ONLY ONCE by Zelda. So, is the time travel via the MS AFTER the initial travel to the 7 year future Canon in OoT's Story?
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:36 PM
Kingslayer Kingslayer is a male United States Kingslayer is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Of course it is. That's how you get in the Spirit Temple, and get the Lens of Truth / Song of Storms paradox.

And, I think Zelda intended to send him back to his original time all along. She does say this:

Quote:
I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience… I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake.
That would be the only way she could correct such an error. ):

I think the Master Sword thing was more..metaphorical than literal anyway.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:05 PM
Ganonslayer2000 Ganonslayer2000 is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Destler View Post
I think the Master Sword thing was more..metaphorical than literal anyway.
It could have been metaphorical. But it still does not explain how Link could close the DOT if he did not have the ocarina in his possession in the first place. That is if you believe he returned to the time before he ever met Zelda. But if Link returned to when he had already opened the DOT with the ocarina, then maybe he still would have it in his possession when he returned to the split Child Timeline. If this is the case, then your point makes sense.

Since both the English and Japanese versions are specific in Zelda originally telling Link that he was the one with the direct responsibility to lay the MS to rest and close the DOT, I think that is more than enough reason for me to believe that she was telling him to do this in the AT instead of the CT.

Then after Zelda says the roads between times would be closed, Link has this awkward moment of being emotionally non responsive and unsure of himself. This made me believe that Zelda eventually decided that it was best for him that she suggest that she restore his lost childhood. And Link seemed to be coherent enough to consent to this out of his own freewill.

IMO if Zelda had already made up her mind to restore Links childhood when she says she wants to make up for her past mistakes, it would seem like she is treating Link like some simple minded moron who is too incompetent to decide whether or not he wants to stay in the Adult Timeline or have his childhood restored.
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No! Link will be a pedophile in the child timeline mark ZeldaZealot words!!!
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the Hero of Time was, technically, truly retarded.
Last Edited by Ganonslayer2000; 06-04-2010 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:43 PM
War Machine War Machine is a male Canada War Machine is offline
MrBaconsock, Totakeke
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Quote:
I think the intended question was whether or not the two instances of time travel in Ocarina of Time is Canon or not. Like how the OoT Manga has Link simply adventure in the AT and, at the end, being put back to his child self ONLY ONCE by Zelda. So, is the time travel via the MS AFTER the initial travel to the 7 year future Canon in OoT's Story?
My question exactly.

What I have considered, is that perhaps whenever link becomes a child again, whatever he does simply is added to what he did before he originally pulled the sword.
I don't know if that makes sense
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:48 PM
StinksAwakening United States StinksAwakening is offline
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Re: OoT: Is Time Travel Canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBaconsock View Post
My question exactly.

What I have considered, is that perhaps whenever link becomes a child again, whatever he does simply is added to what he did before he originally pulled the sword.
It is. Time Travel is a tool that could only be used by the hero of time to defeat evil. In a weird, "cheating" kind of way, the conventional, scientific rules(whatever they may be) to time travel were overruled specifically for the benefit of the hero of time.

Here's a quote from Rauru

Quote:
Your power to fight together with
the Sages makes you the
Hero of Time!
The Hero of Time, chosen by the
Master Sword!
I believe the developers made time travel specific to the hero of time because they knew that all of the possible time paradoxes could be overruled by saying "he's the hero, so he can do that".

It is known by the Sheikah (or at least, Sheik) and the sages that Link is able to travel back and forth through time:

Here's a quote from Sheik:

Quote:
Past, present, future...
The Master Sword is a ship with
which you can sail upstream and
downstream
through time's river...
The port for that ship is in the
Temple of Time...
To restore the Desert Colossus
and enter the Spirit Temple, you
must travel back through time's
flow...

Listen to this Requiem of Spirit...
This melody will lead a child back
to the desert.
Quote:
who need your help.
In order to awaken all the other
Sages, you must become even
more powerful.
You must travel over
mountains...
under water...
and even through time(probably referring to the spirit temple)...
So yes, Link's journeys back in time are canon. Time travel in OoT is just a tool used by Link to alter the things necessary for defeating Ganondorf.
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