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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 06:52 PM
Jarsh Jarsh is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

If he meant for ALttP to be after LoZ, he would've said it much like if Aonuma meant for TWW to be after... LA, he would've said it.

But that's not what happened.
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

He actually said LoZ comes after ALttP.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 08:12 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

I agree that without a mention of LoZ or AoL in that interview, it's hardly conclusive. It's not quite like the TWW/TP thing in that they were said to be 'hundred(s)' of years after OoT, whereas here we just have an order without context consideration. On the other hand, maybe LoZ just isn't in the same timeline?
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Er from your own translation Lex:

Quote:
"The order is Ocarina of Time (abbreviated "時オカ"), Triforce of the Gods (abbreviated "神トラ"), then comes the first, and The Adventure of Link."
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 09:09 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
Er from your own translation Lex:
I didn't know at the time that 'first' was compounded with another word to form 'creator' as ZI's translator pointed out

also-
Quote:
Note on the Miyamoto quote: I actually couldn't translate EVERY word there (just started taking Japanese a couple months ago)
...yeah
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  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-08-2010, 09:12 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Request from Jarsh

Where is this text from? Some sort of magazine, but was discovered at some sort of Japanese wiki.

Why does it need to be translated? It would seem it says LoZ/AoL's timeline placement in accordance to OoT and ALttP.

Text

宮本氏: (時オカ→神トラ)それから初代ときてリンクの冒険という順番になる。
(電撃64、1999年1月号)

Translation

Mr. Miyamoto: (Ocarina of Time -> A Link to the Past) are the order of Link's adventures, according to the creator.
(Dengeki64, January 1999 Issue)

Notes: Miyamoto is saying that AS OF 1999, in the whole order of things Ocarina of Time comes first, then comes A Link to the Past.
(meaning LoZ/AoL occurs after both of these)
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:24 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

But Miyamoto didn't say anything about LoZ or AoL in that interview. Not to mention we have NO context for this quote. The translators' "notes" are just guesses, and not [necessarily] actual facts. Doesn't mean that that can't be what he meant (and I agree that it is what he meant), just that we can't tell 100% from this extremely narrow quote.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:49 PM
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex
But Miyamoto didn't say anything about LoZ or AoL in that interview.
Dude, seeing as how Miyamoto stated "OoT comes first, then ALttP second," it's blatantly obvious that LoZ and AoL wouldn't come between them.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:57 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

I believe MJJ translated that wrong, and I'll explain why.

Quote:
Mr. Miyamoto: (Ocarina of Time -> A Link to the Past) are the order of Link's adventures, according to the creator.
(Dengeki64, January 1999 Issue)
Why would Miyamoto say that?

Therefor I believe my translation is slightly more correct:

Quote:
Miyamoto: Oca(rina of time) is first then leads to Triforce of (the) Gods. Then comes the first and Adventure of Link.
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-09-2010, 06:11 PM
Jarsh Jarsh is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Every time I run the quote through Google translator (yeah, I know) it always mentions "Adventure of Link" rather than "Link's adventures" and mentions nothing about "according to the creator". Pinecove may be right on this and I think we should ask MJJ to clarify this.

Pinecove, how did you translate that arrow to mean "then leads to", or is that just you explaining what it means?
Last Edited by Jarsh; 04-09-2010 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-09-2010, 06:14 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

I BELIEVE (don't source me on this) that the arrow in Japanese instantly means "leads to."

So if you were to put "Go up this street (arrow) Steve's house" it would mean "Go up this street and you'll get to Steve's house."

Otherwise, it's just common sense.
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-09-2010, 06:15 PM
Jarsh Jarsh is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Alright, I figured it was just something like that. Even if it didn't mean that, it's obvious what the arrow is supposed to mean. So, this quote possibly does mention LoZ/AoL which would put this minor problem to rest.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:31 PM
Vaeringar Vaeringar is a male Sweden Vaeringar is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

宮本氏: (時オカ→神トラ)それから初代ときてリンクの冒険という順番になる。
(電撃64、1999年1月号)

Doesn't it translate into ( OoT > ALTTP, then first generation ( LOZ ) then AoL ) ?

Seem weird that they would refer to author ( meaning Miyamoto and other developers ) as 初代 (shodai) ( first generation / founder ), particulary when this is supposed to be a quote by Miyamoto >.<
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:37 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

As I said:

Quote:
Miyamoto: Oca(rina of time) is first then leads to Triforce of (the) Gods. Then comes the first and Adventure of Link.
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  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-09-2010, 07:44 PM
Vaeringar Vaeringar is a male Sweden Vaeringar is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Precisely

No more questioning about LoZ/AoL not being mentioned in this quote.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:50 PM
Beemnorv Beemnorv is a male Canada Beemnorv is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

I am so glad this is cleared up now. The timeline just got that much easier (even more so when you combine this with the ALttP/OoX quote).
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  #57 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-10-2010, 10:48 AM
KJ Contrarian KJ Contrarian is a male United States KJ Contrarian is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerushi View Post
Precisely
No more questioning about LoZ/AoL not being mentioned in this quote.
Thank you Pinecove, Nerushi, and Jarsh for helping to clarify the point.

I accept that the quote yields OoT-Alttp-LoZ-AoL, but objectively speaking (Just playing devil's advocate again here), I'm not certain which source is more believable.

On the one hand, we have the original quote from Nintendo Power (OoT-LoZ/AoL-Alttp), which may have been widely circulated but for which we have no original japanese text available to make our own inquiries.

On the other hand, we have the new source, which (Correct me if I am wrong) is an unknown individual on a Wiki quoting an issue of Dengeki64. Unless someone has scans of the issue, and the interview, how are we to know the sourcing is accurate? It would not be unprecented for an individual to take liberties, especially on a wiki, with a sourcing.

I am not a person who is particularly tied emotionally to the OoT-LoZ/AoL-Alttp sequence. Not at all. In fact, historically I have had LoZ and Alttp on separate branches. So I don't object to falling into line behind the new quote if it is truth.

However, I have to urge caution here - In the absence of the Dengeki64 issue, someone will have to explain to me why the new information should be considered more reliable than the original, especially in light of the fact that OoT-Alttp-LoZ-AoL doesn't exactly stack up well in terms of its explanation of the state of the Triforce and Ganon.
Last Edited by KJ Contrarian; 04-10-2010 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-10-2010, 11:48 AM
Vaeringar Vaeringar is a male Sweden Vaeringar is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ Contrarian View Post
It would not be unprecented for an individual to take liberties, especially on a wiki, with a sourcing.
It would, for the Japanese anyway. They have some quite severe copyleft restrictions, meaning no unwarranted images or quotes are allowed.
However, they do say in which exact issue it was mentioned in, which is sourcing as far as I am concerned. Also, I have seen quite a few people mention this quote, just not one individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ Contrarian View Post
However, I have to urge caution here - In the absence of the Dengeki64 issue, someone will have to explain to me why the new information should be considered more reliable than the original, especially in light of the fact that OoT-Alttp-LoZ-AoL doesn't exactly stack up well in terms of its explanation of the state of the Triforce and Ganon.
There is no absence of the Dengeki64. Even if someone presented it to you in full Japanese, with scans and all, how could you know it had not been faked? We would have no way of confirming its the real deal anyway.
The fact that this Miyamoto quote is widely spread around the Japanese 'Zelda historians' is enough for me to consider it reliable. We're talking about an game that originated in Japan after all, which is funny cause this 'original' you're talking about seem largly unknown to them. It doesn't seem like LoZ/AoL-ALTTP is a message Miyamoto has been trying to spread. Our only source for that are American ones, which has been doubted by numbers of people for being contradicting for least a decade.

Also, as for your theorizing part, I would say you're slightly misinformed. OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALTTP doesn't explain Ganon or the Triforce any better than OoT-ALTTP-LoZ/AoL.
Ganon has the ToP in both OoT and LoZ, yes. But those games cannot transistion into each other, with Ganon still having the ToP, without greatly contradicting the AoL BS.
LoZ/AoL also sees the end of Death Mountain revolving Hyrule, with the old Hyrule, the one ALTTP is based on being in ruins and left behind. This is not an geographical arguement. Its directly story-related one.
Stand alone ALTTP-LoZ/AoL makes at least a 100 time more sense, considering the Triforce location in the SR. And even in the light of OoT, that continuity shouldn't be broken, causes it solves no more problem than it creates, such as contradictions in the AoL BS, and the fact ALTTP is the time when Hyrule is still one country, while LoZ/AoL is not. Triforce and Ganon inconsistencies will exist regardless of how you do it, which is largly reflected in the later games which seem strive away from the contradicting elements introduced in OoT.
Last Edited by Vaeringar; 04-10-2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #59 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 04-10-2010, 01:03 PM
KJ Contrarian KJ Contrarian is a male United States KJ Contrarian is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerushi View Post
There is no absence of the Dengeki64. Even if someone presented it to you in full Japanese, with scans and all, how could you know it had not been faked? We would have no way of confirming its the real deal anyway.The fact that this Miyamoto quote is widely spread around the Japanese 'Zelda historians' is enough for me to consider it reliable. We're talking about an game that originated in Japan after all, which is funny cause this 'original' you're talking about seem largly unknown to them.
Fair enough – I’m not very privy myself to the reaction of the Japanese community on this, so if that is true I suppose it does add a little more sense of security to it.

As to the contents of the issue, well, I really am not trying to sound too picky here. To me if the article/interview were available that would be enough – At least then it would be subject to inquiry and we would not be forced to just take the word of a single Wiki person on the reference. That’s all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerushi View Post
Ganon has the ToP in both OoT and LoZ, yes. But those games cannot transistion into each other, with Ganon still having the ToP, without greatly contradicting the AoL BS.
In regards to the AoL BS, I do agree that the facts become more difficult to explain with OoT-LoZ, and that the AoL BS does work better with Alttp-LoZ (Especially with the “One Country” talk on the Alttp box). Really, the major issues I have with OoT-Alttp-LoZ-AoL are these:

--- In OoT-Alttp, we would have Ganondorf sealed with the ToP at the end of OoT, but then possessing the full Triforce in the SR at the beginning of Alttp. How? Through the events of S&D?
--- Alttp ends on a very triumphant note. Ganon is killed in the DW. How does he return for LoZ, what exactly would his “makai” be in LoZ if the DW is purified, and what justification would there have been for the populace abandoning the Death Mountain area if Alttp ends triumphantly?
--- If OoT-LoZ were not intended, several game connections seem an awful big coincidence. The prologue for LoZ, which notes Ganon’s acquisition of the ToP, is a near exact paraphrasing of the events of OoT. Plus, Hyrule’s wrecked status due to Ganondorf’s rule during OoT’s adult events could provide at least some justification for why the populace moves to the North as AoL requires.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:09 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Apparantly the "miyamoto timeline" isn't accurate

Quote:
--- In OoT-Alttp, we would have Ganondorf sealed with the ToP at the end of OoT, but then possessing the full Triforce in the SR at the beginning of Alttp. How? Through the events of S&D?
Could be. But personally I believe retcon was the only option at the time.

Quote:
--- Alttp ends on a very triumphant note. Ganon is killed in the DW. How does he return for LoZ, what exactly would his “makai” be in LoZ if the DW is purified, and what justification would there have been for the populace abandoning the Death Mountain area if Alttp ends triumphantly?
The underworld.
You have one unexplained Ganon whatever timeline you do soo....

Quote:
--- If OoT-LoZ were not intended, several game connections seem an awful big coincidence. The prologue for LoZ, which notes Ganon’s acquisition of the ToP, is a near exact paraphrasing of the events of OoT. Plus, Hyrule’s wrecked status due to Ganondorf’s rule during OoT’s adult events could provide at least some justification for why the populace moves to the North as AoL requires.
Prologue of LoZ occurs after ALttP when Ganondorf steals the Triforce from HYRULE CASTLE!
People moved north because Ganondorf completely destroyed the land.

Really, why are we debating this, the order is OoT-ALttP-LoZ lets just drop it.
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