Why I think LoZ / AoL are on the Adult Timeline.

Okay.

In Ocarina of Time, you awaken Sages in the Adult Timeline, and thus they are awakened.
And, then, in the child timeline, they aren't awakened, so, they don't become sages as it is implied that once Hyrule split, the Sacred Realm also split as well.

So, if they aren't awakened in the Child Timeline, then they most likely wouldn't have Townships named after them in AoL.
Now, I know Mido Town may discredit this a tad, but I think it still stands true for the most point.

Am I correct in assuming this, or what? D:

*trying to get own personal timeline to work out n_n*

Originally Posted by Ursula

So, if [the Sages] aren't awakened in the Child Timeline, then they most likely wouldn't have Townships named after them in AoL.

Or they would be easter eggs just like the fact that Talon and Malon were based on the design of Tarin and Marin from LA. While we're at it, would the fact that pictures of Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and Peach are displayed in OoT's Hyrule Castle mean that Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdom are neighboring countries?

Yes, the Mido Town does discredit the theory. I think the theory is about as dumb as trying to say that tMC happens after OoX because the Oracles appear in it. Well then, this Link must be the same as OoT Link because Malon and Talon are in it too. But wait! Anju is in it too? So that means she came from Termina and...hold the phone! Those kids from Outset Island...Maple the witch...Holy Mary Mother of Jesus, this game is a cluster**** of cameos!

Am I correct in assuming this, or what? D:

I don't think you're correct, but you might not be wrong. However, if you place LoZ and AoL on the AT, where would you place the Sleeping Zelda story? It would needs be after WW and after a New Hyrule comes about, right? If you say it happens before WW, then you'd have to account for the fact that the ToC doesn't stay hidden until the events of AoL, as the AoL BS implies it does. You 'd also have the problem of the North Tower being...erm...flooded...and under tons of water...and basically inaccesible in any semblence of a New Hyrule.

*trying to get own personal timeline to work out n_n*

My advice? Be a rebel like me and put tMC first, followed by the Interloper War, then followed by LoZ/AoL, and then have OoT split the timeline after that. If you don't want to put the 2D NES games prior to OoT, I can understand and respect that. However, I think it's a sound theory.

The way I see it, OoT's references to AoL's towns was a minor detail the design team thought would be cute, and worked fine with 1998's linear timeline. Since then, Aonuma saw fit to take advantage of OoT's dual ending to make two timelines (fixing some nearly irreconcilable plot holes between OoT and LttP's backstory). This obviously left a plot hole with the town names, but it's such a tiny detail that it barely matters.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Or they would be easter eggs

Both the script writer and Aonuma said they were designed to show that the towns had been named after the sages, not as an "easter egg" homage.

You 'd also have the problem of the North Tower being...erm...flooded...and under tons of water..

Because of course everything was covered by water in TWW... ::rollseyes::

If you say it happens before WW, then you'd have to account for the fact that the ToC doesn't stay hidden until the events of AoL, as the AoL BS implies it does.

If the ToC was hidden after tWW, why wouldn't it stay hidden until AoL?

Originally Posted by Ursula

Am I correct in assuming this, or what? D:

NP: What was the impetus for creating the game’s multiple races–Gorons, Zoras, the Gerudo, Kokiri, etc.–and what was the process like for creating them?

EA: In creating a unique cast of characters, we thought it would be effective to have nonhuman races, each of them invested with different lifestyles and mannerisms. Almost from the beginning we had decided on Kokiri to live in the forests, Gorons to live in the mountains, and Zoras to live in the water.

At first we imagined the Zoras as monsters sort of like mermen who would be antagonists to humans. The original concept was strong. However, after we had decided Princess Ruto was going to be one of the sages, that image didn’t seem to fit anymore, so we changed them to be a friendly more like humans.

Each of the races has a character fated to become one of the sages later on. We named them after towns in The Adventure of Link so it would appear that the towns had been named after them. (In the world of Zelda, the events of Ocarina of Time occur before the events of The Adventure of Link.)

Yes, Beem, but read later in that quote and you'll see that he compares naming the towns to making the characters of Malon and Talon.

As far as I'm concerned, if AoL happens after OoT (which is probably does), then the scroll writer of the AoL BS cannot be the King. So...then why couldn't the prince of the AoL BS find the ToC? Where, pray tell, did the King hide this precious relic?

Oh...and about the comment I made about the flood. I meant it. Dammit all, if Hyrule is ****ing flooded, then the North Tower is probably under water. And if it wasn't underwater, it would be atop a mountain on a tiny island. Yeah, I hate referencing geography to prove a theory, but I must in this case. If you hand't noticed, AoL's North Tower is not on a ****ing tiny island. The land mass is HUGE.

My conclusion? If the AoL BS happens before WW, and therefore before OoT, then it must by NECESSITY come on the CT for the North Tower to avoid being either

A) Buried Under Tons of Water

or

B) Floating all alone on a random island in the middle of the Great Sea over what used to be ancient Hyrule

Originally Posted by Sparty

Yes, Beem, but read later in that quote and you'll see that he compares naming the towns to making the characters of Malon and Talon.

So? Koholint is a dream world based on Link's experiences; Marin and Tarin would be based in part on Malon and Talon anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, if AoL happens after OoT (which is probably does), then the scroll writer of the AoL BS cannot be the King. So...then why couldn't the prince of the AoL BS find the ToC? Where, pray tell, did the King hide this precious relic?

It's in a bunch of pieces, scattered across Hyrule/the Great Sea.

Dammit all, if Hyrule is ****ing flooded, then the North Tower is probably under water.

The former homes of the Kokiri aren't. Arguably Kakariko's windmill is Windfall Island's windmill.

And if it wasn't underwater, it would be atop a mountain on a tiny island. Yeah, I hate referencing geography to prove a theory, but I must in this case. If you hand't noticed, AoL's North Tower is not on a ****ing tiny island. The land mass is HUGE.

The Great Deku Tree wants to turn the islands into a large island?

And it's on a tiny island besides.

If the AoL BS happens before WW, and therefore before OoT

Um, what? The AoL BS could easily be AFTER OoT and BEFORE TWW, as in that case we have a king dying and leaving only part of the Triforce for his descendants.

Is there any connection at all to the locations of the town sages to the locations of where the sages came from in OoT, such as the kokiri forest, Desert, and kakariko?

Sorry if that question is confusing

I mean, are the sage town locations relative to their respective OoT locations?

Originally Posted by MrBaconsock

Is there any connection at all to the locations of the town sages to the locations of where the sages came from in OoT, such as the kokiri forest, Desert, and kakariko?

Sorry if that question is confusing

I mean, are the sage town locations relative to their respective OoT locations?

No, sadly. All of the towns are north of Death Mountain, while the area we explore in OoT is south of Death Mountain.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

So? Koholint is a dream world based on Link's experiences; Marin and Tarin would be based in part on Malon and Talon anyway.

When I smoke pot, this will make sense.

It's in a bunch of pieces, scattered across Hyrule/the Great Sea.

Oh, because it's the King that put them there. Yes, I've heard the theory that Daphnes was the Prince. So his father ruled with the full Triforce, right? Who the **** was his father then? The King of Hyrule from OoT? The one that died when Ganondorf took over Hyrule Castle? The one that never ruled with the full Triforce since it was always in the SR? The one that never had time to hide the ToC before Link became its user?

This theory is bull**** and so half-assed that it makes me want to shoot myself.

The former homes of the Kokiri aren't. Arguably Kakariko's windmill is Windfall Island's windmill.

Hyrule is buried under water. Period. Those few places that survived are lucky, but they are no longer Hyrule. They are islands scattered across the Great Sea.

The Great Deku Tree wants to turn the islands into a large island?

Intent doesn't mean success. Besides, Link and Tetra sail away to find a new place to call home anyway. Let me guess...they sail back many years later to find a giant forested swampy landmass floating on top of miles of saltwater and say "Oh, I guess we'll settle for this." **** logic.

And it's on a tiny island besides.

Cute.

Um, what? The AoL BS could easily be AFTER OoT and BEFORE TWW, as in that case we have a king dying and leaving only part of the Triforce for his descendants.

This King ruled with the full Triforce? All pieces? Even Power? Power, if you recall, is the piece that Ganondorf has in his possession in the SR. So that means...oh...no this theory won't work after all, will it? Sorry to burst the bubble on this piece of **** theory. SZ does NOT take place in between OoT and WW. That's impossible due to Triforce complications. You're going to make me **** a brick.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Oh, because it's the King that put them there.

Didn't say that, actually.

The one that never ruled with the full Triforce since it was always in the SR?

You don't have to carry the Triforce to use its power. Link uses it in OoX, despite it resting in Hyrule Castle.

Besides, there's a reason the Triforce is the royal family's crest, and why the composer brothers are researching it in their studies of the royal family's powers.

Hyrule is buried under water. Period. Those few places that survived are lucky, but they are no longer Hyrule. They are islands scattered across the Great Sea.

There ain't much in AoL that resembles OoT.

Intent doesn't mean success.

The developers told us the Deku Tree would connect the islands, but don't intend for this to happen?

Fine, I won't believe anything you bring up as proof, because the developers didn't really mean it.

Besides, Link and Tetra sail away to find a new place to call home anyway.

Gotta start somewhere.

This King ruled with the full Triforce? All pieces? Even Power? Power, if you recall, is the piece that Ganondorf has in his possession in the SR. So that means...oh...no this theory won't work after all, will it?

Really? Because I was under the impression that after the king died he didn't leave all of the Triforce for his descendants. Could this be because it had split? (Moreover, isn't this what traditionalists say anyway, just OoT hadn't come out when AoL was made?)

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Didn't say that, actually.

Just freakin' say that SZ happens before OoT. It's easier that way instead of trying to play off Daphnes as somehow connected to the Sleeping Princess Story.

You don't have to carry the Triforce to use its power. Link uses it in OoX, despite it resting in Hyrule Castle.

So you think that Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda were using the Triforce pieces without actually holding them?

OoX Link's Triforce symbol works much the same way that AoL Link's did; those crests on their hands opened **** up. Perhaps a portion of the Triforce's powers were meted out to them, but I doubt they were accessing the Power of Gold itself from such a remote source.

Besides, there's a reason the Triforce is the royal family's crest, and why the composer brothers are researching it in their studies of the royal family's powers.

According to the Composer Bros. Link looks like Zelda, thereby signifying a relation between the two. ...I don't know where I'm going with this.

There ain't much in AoL that resembles OoT.

Didn't you mention that AoL takes place north of OoT's map? That was you, wasn't it?

The developers told us the Deku Tree would connect the islands, but don't intend for this to happen?

If this is the case, then why the **** do Link and Tetra sail off to find a new land if they're just going to come back to a swampy mess of tangled roots one day anyway?

Fine, I won't believe anything you bring up as proof, because the developers didn't really mean it.

My cock's bigger than yours.

Really? Because I was under the impression that after the king died he didn't leave all of the Triforce for his descendants. Could this be because it had split? (Moreover, isn't this what traditionalists say anyway, just OoT hadn't come out when AoL was made?)

The King...of the AoL Backstory...ruled Hyrule...with the FULL TRIFORCE.

Under the context of what we see in LoZ, there are two Triforces in the possession of the Royal Family: Wisdom and Power. AoL reveals that there is a third, Courage. AoL BS's King ruled with all three (he ruled with the full Triforce - Link's quest in AoL is to make the Triforce whole again by recovering the hidden ToC). God the implications aren't mind numbing or anything, for they're plain as day!

He didn't leave the full Triforce, for the ToC was hidden. The Prince only inherited Wisdom and Power, as we see in context of LoZ that the Hyrule Royal Family still had those two pieces.

Of course, I'm not a traditionalist (I like mixing things up a bit for fun and for experimentation), but there's nothing indicating a retcon of this Backstory...yet. So I'm going to take it for face value, just as you still take OoT's intent to be the SW at face value. I'm going to be logical and place LoZ/AoL in a place of least resistence, which would be pre-OoT

SPARTY:
AoL's North Tower is not on a ****ing tiny island

Originally Posted by River Zora

Damn straight.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Just freakin' say that SZ happens before OoT.

That would involve assuming that there was a princess named Zelda before OoT - which I can't do. I can assume that there was a male member of the royal family who after OoT inherited part of the Triforce, though - because TWW shows us one.

So you think that Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda were using the Triforce pieces without actually holding them?

Never said that. Just said that the Triforce can give its power to people without them actually physically carrying it. I think this is how the Royal Family uses the Triforce before OoT - which explains why the Composer Brothers study it as part of the family's power, even though it is resting safely in the Sacred Realm at the time.

According to the Composer Bros. Link looks like Zelda, thereby signifying a relation between the two.

They say he reminds them of Zelda. Not the same thing.

Didn't you mention that AoL takes place north of OoT's map?

Yeah. North of the "Hyrule" that was flooded.

If this is the case, then why the **** do Link and Tetra sail off to find a new land if they're just going to come back to a swampy mess of tangled roots one day anyway?

They want to fulfill Daphnes's wish NOW.

The King...of the AoL Backstory...ruled Hyrule...with the FULL TRIFORCE.

And the Royal Family of OoT also seems to have used the "full Triforce" - it's the emblem of their family after all.

there's nothing indicating a retcon of this Backstory...yet.

When the "first generation Zelda" existed, the Triforce was in the Sacred Realm, not Hyrule. So that by itself retcons the backstory.

According to the Composer Bros. Link looks like Zelda, thereby signifying a relation between the two.

Everyone with blonde hair and blue eyes is related?

Just freakin' say that SZ happens before OoT.

I will I love how Sparty, Artem and I agree with alternate things the other believes... ah how the mind is funny.

When the "first generation Zelda" existed, the Triforce was in the Sacred Realm, not Hyrule. So that by itself retcons the backstory.

I disagree. I believe there is a seal put on the SR before OoT with the MS and stones. We know that at some point in the 'Age of Great Kings' or what have you, the Sacred Realm was part of Hyrule and they ruled with the Triforce itself. This is the earliest point in history to me. Where the Sacred Realm was not sealed. Then, bollocks happens, evil, interlopers, sleeping Zelda, whatever have you, and then the MS seal which is existant in OoT.

Yeah. North of the "Hyrule" that was flooded.

The whole world was flooded unless the world's flat. Which is entirely possible in the symbolic world of Zelda, but I'd rather a round planet, an even flood of the WORLD of Hyrule, not just the country.

Originally Posted by River Zora

I disagree. I believe there is a seal put on the SR before OoT with the MS and stones. We know that at some point in the 'Age of Great Kings' or what have you, the Sacred Realm was part of Hyrule and they ruled with the Triforce itself. This is the earliest point in history to me. Where the Sacred Realm was not sealed. Then, bollocks happens, evil, interlopers, sleeping Zelda, whatever have you, and then the MS seal which is existant in OoT.

You misunderstand me; the first Zelda we actually see exists in a time when the Triforce is in the Sacred Realm. If the SZ happens before OoT, it's kind of hard to deduce this from OoT - the main problem being that we can't trace the Triforce after the king died so that "part" of the Triforce could have remained with a prince.

That's why I inevitably settled on the theory I have now - this particular element we can trace to TWW, but not before OoT.

I don't see it remaining with the Prince. Mine's way overthought, but it's the best way to make it make sense with current standards. I am certain it is perhaps not what was intended at the time of release for AoL, but given current conventions I would go so far as to say it is current intent.

The Prince (and Wizard) try to take the Triforce when the King dies, his heart is not in balance (because of Wizard or otherwise). It splits- he gets power, presumably, and wisdom goes to Zelda. Courage presumably goes to one of the knights, perhaps Link's daddy if you're into that sorta thing. The prince then sets out looking for the missing pieces as he was only able to inherit part. The rest of the world also fight for these pieces and this is the pre-OoT war. I reckon the Wizard was an interloper due to teal skin, red eyes and hiding in prince's shadow.

Eventually they track down Zelda to get wisdom (she knows something about the rest of the Triforce her dad told her) and it is her possession of wisdom which causes the Wizard's spell to 'backfire' and kill him. This is unexplained thus far in the manual, but if Zelda had a Triforce it would make sense why he couldn't kill her, and instead his magic turned on himself.

After the bloodshed and the prince coming to his senses the sages gather the Triforce (Zelda's all but dead, the prince in his right mind again, and the knights either dead or willing to give up the piece or both) and seal it away in the ToT. Hyrule is at piece for a decade or so as new Zelda is born.

The Scroll Writer has nothing to do with the story for a long time after God knows how much Triforce dickery. It's not the Prince in that the Prince did not get the Courage part and is generations prior.

Over interpreted and fanficcy to the seams, yes- but it makes sense and fits with current knowledge of games and backstories.

I suggest LoZ/AoL in old Hyrule on the AT (a future history that Zelda changed by
sending Link back in time)

Originally Posted by Cukeman

I suggest LoZ/AoL in old Hyrule on the AT (a future history that Zelda changed by
sending Link back in time)

Cukes, you're smarter than this. I'm not even going to get into how this won't work.

Don't get him started...