The Seal War's timeline placement is... there???

Could be the SR.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Could be the SR.

HOW????? In OoT the SR is sealed by the MS and ToT!
They obviously know about the SR...

The SR is not discovered during the events of OoT. Period.

God dammit, the SR is not a parallel dimension. It's land within Hyrule itself. And you don't know that it was ever accessed before without portals. In fact, the basic idea that it had to be discovered in the first place places emphasis on it not being accessible just by walking x miles in y direction to get to z the sacred realm.

Ganondorf was one day riding around the forest with his band of theives when he decided to havea race with them. As they raced through the forest on their steeds they came upon an area of Hyrule never before seen, for it was a few miles more west than others had ever chanced to travel.

After this discovery, the sages of Hyrule Castle were irate and wanted the Royal Family to have the monopoly on this Sacred land. Thus, they cast a spell and enclosed it within a separate plane of existence, making it only accessible by secret portals known only to them. This stretch of land that was once the Sacred Realm became barren and is now known as the Haunted Wasteland.

Your theory is subject to a baseless foundation and therefore crumbles under the weight of scrutiny. What does make sense is that the Sacred Realm has always been hidden and had to be discovered. Since it's within Hyrule, there must have been a portal to it. Oh, wait, we learn in OoT, and ALttP, that there are indeed portals to it.

You're wrong.
The Seal War is not during the re-discovery. The Seal War is the first discovery.
It's said that after creation word spread, and people began searching for the Sacred Realm, but no one was succesfull until the Seal War.

It was the first opening of it.

Explain how it worked in 1991 then.

In 1991 Ganondorf and a band of theives invaded the SR and Ganondorf got the Triforce and became Ganon.

Then the game itself says that the theif Ganondorf rediscovered the SR.

Clearly the concept isn't new to developers.

And Erimgard... saying that for certain the SW is the first time the SR is entered is as ignorant and bias as some of the crap that ZD spews out... Don't be so biased lol

Also, if the OoT sages live in the SR, how could it not have been discovered before that?

Unless you're saying that the LttP manual should have said: "Ganondorf was the first person to discover the SR, then the sages who lived in the SR (clearly without ever discovering it) sealed him in the SR, the place that, you know, the sages lived in without ever discovering." to be more accurate

The ****? How is it ignorant or biased?

Originally Posted by aLttP SNES Japanese Manual

The people, seeking the Golden Power, began searching for the Sacred Realm.
Many reports began to surface; lying beneath the relics of the desert, inside the graves of the race of people in the high mountains, but no one ever found it.
Longing soon became greed, and it was not uncommon for blood to be spilt for certain information.
The more carefree people had to live days of disquiet.
That is, until one day, completely by chance, the entrance to the Sacred Realm was opened by by a certain group of thieves.

NO ONE EVER FOUND IT until the band of thieves found it, and their leader, Ganondorf, initiated the Seal War.

Oh so we're talking SNES manual?

Now that I think about it... why the hell was that "rediscovered" quote there in 1991? I'd forgotten how clear the SNES manual quote was.

But how did the LttP Ganon rediscover the SR in 1991?

Anyways, do you think that the SNES manual is canon? Your theory is ****ed further with SNES manual as canon lol.

I'm confused now, though, about how things went in 1991...

Ganon rediscovered the SR, but was also the person to discover the SR...

I'm confused lol

Originally Posted by Erimgard

The ****? How is it ignorant or biased?

NO ONE EVER FOUND IT until the band of thieves found it, and their leader, Ganondorf, initiated the Seal War.

Erim, there's a gaping hole in your theory.

You are right that it says "but no one ever found it", however you ignore the
part that comes RIGHT BEFORE:

Originally Posted by =aLttP SNES Japanese Manual

Many reports began to surface; lying beneath the relics of the desert, inside the graves of the race of people in the high mountains,

^ The rumors flying around are due to old Triforce legends.
The legends tell us that the people already know how the Triforce works:

"The golden power lies somewhere descended from the heavens.
He who claims it as his own shall have their desires granted by the gods."

Source - Japanese ALttP manual translation

Don't you see that these legends are inspiring people to search for the lost
entrance to the Sacred Realm???

Rumors abound that the Triforce is (or was) located in Hyrule (same source):

Many reports began to surface; lying beneath the relics of the desert, inside the graves of the race of people in the high mountains, but no one ever found it.

Why are there rumors that the Triforce is in Hyrule if it has never left the Sacred Realm?

They are spilling blood for information. How could anyone have information
if the Sacred Realm had never been discovered?

Longing soon became greed, and it was not uncommon for blood to be spilt for certain information.

After all of this happens Ganondorf gets his Triforce wish granted (unlike in OoT,
where it splits in his hands).

ALttP then says that:

Originally Posted by ALttP GBA

at some point that
knowledge was lost...
The one who rediscovered
the Golden Land was
an evil thief named Ganondorf.
Luckily, he couldn't figure out
how to return to the Light
World...

Clearly the search for the Sacred Realm in the ALttP BS occurred after knowledge
of the SR had been lost, and the group of thieves led by Ganon was responsible
for the rediscovery of the Sacred Realm. ALttP's backstory never mentions OoT
Ganondorf, it only mentions the Ganondorf who obtained the whole Triforce,
got his wish granted, and was sealed in the Imprisoning War.

You are reading too much into the backstory methinks...

People were searching for the fabled, lost entrance to the SR fueled by old Triforce
rumors... but since the time this renewed interest & search began no one had ever
been able to find it.

You assume that "no one ever found it" refers to the entire history of the Zelda
saga, when it could simply mean that "no one ever found it" since the time of
renewed interest.

Therein lies your error.

Please display that picture of a flaming man again, Cukeman. In the meantime, I'll go find my own.



There is something very satisfying about this theory of yours. It's fresh, it makes sense, and it seems to follow developer intent. I also have always thought that the ancient Hylians definitely had access to the SR before. I mean...OoT pretty much proves it, showing that there's even a Temple in it called the Temple of Light. Who do you thin built it? The Oocaa? Okay, maybe...but I'd rather think it was the Hylians, the keepers of the SR.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

The rumors flying around are due to old Triforce legends.

You sure? Because to me it sounds like they're just baseless rumors about places where people think the entrance to the Sacred Realm is. Since apparently only a select few know where it is and people are being tortured for information you can expect a lot of false information to spread.

Don't you see that these legends are inspiring people to search for the lost entrance to the Sacred Realm???

Obviously.

But realize that this same story was retold in TP. And if it's really the same story, we know "no one ever found it" until Ganondorf did, as we already saw in OoT.

Rumors abound that the Triforce is (or was) located in Hyrule (same source)

That the entrance to the Sacred Realm was located in Hyrule.

Yet, still:

Why are there rumors that the Triforce is in Hyrule if it has never left the Sacred Realm?

Good question:

Originally Posted by TWW intro, describing OoT

Long ago, there existed a kingdom where a golden power lay hidden.

Originally Posted by TP

This was once the land where the power of the gods was said to slumber.

Probably it's just because before "word of the Sacred Realm spread throughout Hyrule" people just thought the Triforce was somewhere in Hyrule.

They are spilling blood for information. How could anyone have information if the Sacred Realm had never been discovered?

Didn't ALttP say the information was known to a chosen few (the Royal Family and the Sages that we know of, according to OoT)? Those who wanted to find it would certainly interrogate anyone they found in an effort to uncover this knowledge.

After all of this happens Ganondorf gets his Triforce wish granted (unlike in OoT, where it splits in his hands).

No Seal War account ever says Ganondorf got his wish granted during the Seal War. If that was the way the story went in 1991 (which we can reasonably assume as these were the only elements of the story that existed at the time), it's not how it went in 1998 (as OoT depicted the story directly, and Ganon didn't get his wish granted). And if it's not how it went in 1998, we need solid proof to say that's how it went in 2002. We don't have that proof.

Clearly the search for the Sacred Realm in the ALttP BS occurred after knowledge of the SR had been lost, and the group of thieves led by Ganon was responsible for the rediscovery of the Sacred Realm. ALttP's backstory never mentions OoT Ganondorf, it only mentions the Ganondorf who obtained the whole Triforce, got his wish granted, and was sealed in the Imprisoning War.

1) Why did the developers introduce the quest for dominion over the Sacred Realm in pre-OoT history (before the location was lost) when they scripted TP, then? Since they'd already scripted OoT as the IW in 1998, it seems like too much of a coincidence that another element of the ALttP backstory would now be tied back to OoT's history.

2) ALttP also takes place hundreds of years after the Ganondorf from OoT died. Since Ganondorf isn't "revived" anywhere in the ALttP story, why would they mention him?

You assume that "no one ever found it" refers to the entire history of the Zelda saga, when it could simply mean that "no one ever found it" since the time of renewed interest.

"No one ever found it" (SNES version)
"where the Triforce was still hidden" (GBA version)

The intent seems pretty constant between the two versions on this point, and OoT's version of the story in 1998 is the only real way to corroborate these two details. This is why I will not accept any other version of the IW as the "true" story unless the developers themselves give it to us.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

You sure?

Hyrule, where many Hylian relics have been left, is an area very much tied to myth.

One such example is an old saying about the Triforce.

"The golden power lies somewhere descended from the heavens.
He who claims it as his own shall have their desires granted by the gods."

Pretty sure.

But realize that this same story was retold in TP.

Correction. A similar story was told in TP.
Just like in ALttP's BS there is a struggle over the entrance to the SR.

BUT.
The TP account is the initial discovery.
The ALttP account is the rediscovery.
TP does not say the entrance was sealed.
ALttP does.

How is it the same story retold, when TP's account is before OoT, with no
Ganon, no group of thieves, no rediscovery, and no SR seal?

Which do you claim to be the Seal War??? OoT or TP's (pre-OoT) interloper conflict???

Originally Posted by Artemicion

That the entrance to the Sacred Realm was located in Hyrule.

Who knew the entrance to the SR was in Hyrule before the entrance was
discovered?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Didn't ALttP say the information was known to a chosen few (the Royal Family and the Sages that we know of, according to OoT)?

Those 'chosen few' were the Royalty and Sages of OoT, who got that info passed
down from the builders of the Temple of Time (after the SR was discovered)
The special knowledge is that they guard the secret of the Triforce's location
(in the SR beyond the Door of Time). See OoT:

Originally Posted by OoT Zelda

OK then, Link...
I'm going to tell you the secret of
the Sacred Realm that has been
passed down by the Royal Family
of Hyrule.

...

That's right... The Temple of Time
is the entrance through which you
can enter the Sacred Realm from
our world.

Those who wanted to find it would certainly interrogate anyone they found in an effort to uncover this knowledge.

As said above, this knowledge is a result of the SR discovery + the Temple of Time.
This knowledge did not exist before the SR was discovered.

No Seal War account ever says Ganondorf got his wish granted during the Seal War.

C'mon! It may not be stated as plain as the nose on your face, but it's rather obvious.

Ganon is sealed in the Seal War, and tries to get out in ALttP.
The manual poses this question:

We do not know what Ganon wished for after gaining the Triforce's power.

...and the game answers:

Surprisingly, the Triforce
created this world to fulfill
Ganon's wish.
What is Ganon's wish,
you ask? It's to rule the
entire cosmos!

It looks crystal clear that his wish was granted...

1) Why did the developers introduce the quest for dominion over the Sacred Realm in pre-OoT history (before the location was lost) when they scripted TP, then? Since they'd already scripted OoT as the IW in 1998, it seems like too much of a coincidence that another element of the ALttP backstory would now be tied back to OoT's history.

TP tells of the initial discovery. ALttP tells of the rediscovery.
Similar, yet different.

Consider many of the themes in the Zelda franchise that are similar, yet different.
Ganon is almost always trying to collect the whole Triforce ending in a dramatic
reunion of the Triforce trio: Ganon, Link and Zelda. Don't tell me that all the
games with this theme are one and the same. Elements are re-used. Simple as that.

2) ALttP also takes place hundreds of years after the Ganondorf from OoT died. Since Ganondorf isn't "revived" anywhere in the ALttP story, why would they mention him?

ALttP Ganon/dorf is not the same fellow we saw in OoT. There are two Ganons (see FSA).
ALttP Ganon cannot be OoT Ganon. OoT Ganon died on the AT and the CT.
See TP and WW. That's a trick question if I ever saw one.

"No one ever found it" (SNES version)
"where the Triforce was still hidden" (GBA version)

No one ever found it since mankind hid it for safekeeping in the SR behind the
Door of Time. This is the special knowledge guarded by the Royalty and Sages
in OoT that was lost before the rediscovery of the Sacred Realm by a group of
thieves led by the second Ganondorf.

The intent seems pretty constant between the two versions on this point, and OoT's version of the story in 1998 is the only real way to corroborate these two details.

The only way? I'm afraid not. I came up with another explanation.

This is why I will not accept any other version of the IW as the "true" story unless the developers themselves give it to us.

You won't accept it because I can't think of an alternate explanation... which I just did. Okay...

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By special request:



(I won't post this image again, it seems a little spammy, self-absorbed and off-topic)

But man I love this theory, it just defends itself!

Originally Posted by Cukeman

The TP account is the initial discovery.

I'm not sure if this is actually the case, but it's pretty much the damn closest we'll get to a first discovery of the SR.

How is it the same story retold, when TP's account is before OoT, with no Ganon, no group of thieves, no rediscovery, and no SR seal?

Becuase people can't fathom that there are multiple legends about the land of Hyrule that cover similar yet different topics.

Who knew the entrance to the SR was in Hyrule before the entrance was discovered?

I'm going to guess Sages did. But if they died, then there would needs be a...gasp!...rediscovery!!!

...knowledge [of the Sacred Realm] did not exist before the SR was discovered.

Quite possibly it did, as the Sages appointed by the Goddesses would have known about it. But then they would have corroborated with the Royal Family and gone into it to build the Temple of Light to protect it, I would think. Otherwise, I think it would have been pretty damn easy for those Interlopers to get their hands on the Golden Power.

No one ever found it since mankind hid it for safekeeping in the SR behind the Door of Time. This is the special knowledge guarded by the Royalty and Sages in OoT that was lost before the rediscovery of the Sacred Realm by a group of thieves led by the second Ganondorf.

Or third or fourth...we lose track of them all, just like I'm sure we've pretty much lost track of how many Links and Zeldas there are to date.

You won't accept it because I can't think of an alternate explanation... which I just did. Okay...

Which is why I think many people won't accept my SZ - AoL - OoT theory either...stubborn pride.

But man I love this theory, it just defends itself!

Agreed. However, I'm sad that you won't post your image again.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

But man I love this theory, it just defends itself!

I agree. I'm not understanding it fully though.

Are you saying the the Seal War is after TP?

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

I agree. I'm not understanding it fully though.

Are you saying the the Seal War is after TP?

It's a pretty likely spot, and it's theorized that this is the direction the developers are beginning to take with it.

"where the Triforce was still hidden" (GBA version)

"the place that hid the gold" GBA NoJ

Originally Posted by Sparty

It's a pretty likely spot, and it's theorized that this is the direction the developers are beginning to take with it.

Once it becomes clearer to me, I'll change my timeline...*sigh*...AGAIN.

Originally Posted by Table

"the place that hid the gold" GBA NoJ

Sounds like some sort of drug reference.

Do you have a link? I need it.

Originally Posted by Table

"the place that hid the gold" GBA NoJ

THANK YOU!

@Beemnorv: LttP GBA manual translation: http://forums.legendsalliance.com/in...8&#entry397698

Hey Lex, what's the uber important and timeline relevant reason for the drastic shortening of the Agahnim story?

Originally Posted by Table

@Beemnorv: LttP GBA manual translation: http://forums.legendsalliance.com/in...8&#entry397698

Is the only difference between the SNES and GBA manuals the fact that Ganon is left out?

Nope.

The creation is shortened to one sentence (down from SNES versions long ass version: http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/te...ual_story.html), the SW is shortened to what the intro story says (although the maiden story effectively says the same things), and the Agahnim story is shortened drastically.

It became frustratingly vague.

^ Does it change anything though? If not, then we could still take the SNES as canon, but more detailed.