Hero of Men Theory

I think that these two quotations refer to the same event:

Originally Posted by ALttP (GBA)

legends told of an omnipotent
and omniscient Golden Power
that lay hidden.
It was hidden in a sacred
realm beyond the reach of men,
but one day...
...a doorway to that realm
was suddenly opened...
Hoping to claim the Golden
Power as their own, the people
began to quarrel and fight...

Originally Posted by TP

For ages, the people lived at ease,
content in mind and body...

But soon, word of the Sacred Realm
spread through Hyrule, and a great
battle ensued...

ALttP suggests that people were turned into monsters during this period:

Originally Posted by ALttP (GBA)

Many sought to enter the
hidden Golden Land...
But none returned, and instead
evil power began to issue
forth from the dark portal

Originally Posted by ALttP GBA Manual

MANY SOUGHT
TREASURE IN THIS PLACE, BUT NONE
RETURNED-ONLY BEINGS OF GREAT EVIL
EMERGED FROM THE GOLDEN LAND.

I think that the interloper's magic (the Fused Shadow) was responsible for this
transformation (the Fused Shadow turned Darbus and Yeta into evil beings in TP).

In short, when the interlopers attempted to establish dominion over the Sacred
Realm, they used the Fused Shadow against the other tribes.

It's a point of contention whether or not the interlopers were actually inside the
Sacred Realm, but they had an obvious edge over the other tribes, so if the other
tribes made it into the Sacred Realm (see above) the interlopers could too.

So we have the interlopers as the source of the monsters (the evil flowing out of
the Sacred Realm). These monsters led the Sages to seal the entrance to the
Sacred Realm; this is the first seal - the seal held shut by the Master Sword before
OoT Link meets Zelda (the second seal takes place when the OoT Sages seal
Ganon in the corrupted Sacred Realm).

The Light Spirits banish the interlopers into the Twilight Realm, but monsters
remain in the Sacred Realm. It should be noted that because the interlopers did
not obtain the Triforce, the Sacred Realm itself is not "corrupted".

Later on, a great ruler opens the seal to obtain the Triforce (this is a rare king
because he is pure/noble enough to use the Master Sword). When the king opens
the Sacred Realm, the monsters are able to exit. It is at this time that the Hero
of Men appears to seal away the monsters in the Bound Chest. The Sacred Realm
is now rid of the monsters, and has never been corrupted.

The great ruler is able to obtain the Triforce, and is balanced enough to rule
successfully with it. It is this usage which makes the Triforce the official crest
of Hyrule.

The first Zelda is born and the Triforce is returned to the Sacred Realm via wish
or physical means.

Next comes Ocarina of Time...

if the king could use the Master Sword, then why would the picori need to give the hero of men the Picori blade? (just a question, not attacking the over all theory, I kinda like it)

This makes sense. I want to point out that in the TP interloper scene, Link is shown to vapourize and then become an evil entity of himself. Could this be the formation of a monster?

sounds good, Though I've always thought that the king took the triforce after the defeat of the interlopers. Just going on your idea, I think the most likely reason for the triforce's return to the SR is because the sages put it there because it was too powerful to leave in the hands of men. it had already caused much death with the war, and the instance with the wizard and zelda sort of served as the last straw, and the sages put the triforce back int the SR and built the ToT to keep people out so history wouldn't repeat itself.

Originally Posted by Kael

if the king could use the Master Sword, then why would the picori need to give the hero of men the Picori blade? (just a question, not attacking the over all theory, I kinda like it)

Well, just because someone is pure/noble enough to use the Master Sword, that
doesn't make them a fighter... he could be old & fat as well as pure/noble lol

I also considered that perhaps the Hero of Men himself became the great
ruler, but it's kind of hard to fit that into the theory...

I think that the most likely theory is that the king did not find the Triforce
immediately when he entered the Sacred Realm. Perhaps it took some searching,
and the monsters would be a hindrance to this effort.

Originally Posted by MrBaconsock

This makes sense. I want to point out that in the TP interloper scene, Link is shown to vapourize and then become an evil entity of himself. Could this be the formation of a monster?

If you take that scene literally, then it would appear to me that the interloper absorbed "Link's"
soul to become more powerful (or something along those lines). If you don't take it literally, it
could mean many things...

Originally Posted by Tyras

sounds good, Though I've always thought that the king took the triforce after the defeat of the interlopers.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, in this theory the king does take the
Triforce after the Light Spirits banish the interlopers...

Just going on your idea, I think the most likely reason for the triforce's return to the SR is because the sages put it there because it was too powerful to leave in the hands of men. it had already caused much death with the war, and the instance with the wizard and zelda sort of served as the last straw, and the sages put the triforce back int the SR...

That could apply under the option "physical means" it makes sense (to me) that
after the sleeping Zelda fiasco, no one is balanced enough to use the Triforce for
a long time, so it's returned to the Sacred Realm before OoT.

and built the ToT to keep people out so history wouldn't repeat itself.

Good point. If a king entered the Sacred Realm before OoT, it's likely to be before the
ToT is built, since the keys to the Door of Time are scattered among the friendly tribes.

This seems very much one of those 'There's nothing to say it ISN'T the case, so I will believe it despite their being nothing really to say it IS.' which are all well and good, though the links are tenuous at best.

I think it much more sensible to assume it is the Dark World itself that transformed the people, in the same way we see it transform Link and the inhabitants of the Dark World in aLttP itself.

I see no reason to link the backstories of tMC or any other game, so I would not go so far as to agree (and I love nothing better than combining events into one- but there really is nothing indicating this, however vague the bound chest story is).

Also- Kael, your name is the same as the Blue Zora knight in my Pre-OoT fanfic- who'dathunkit!

Originally Posted by River Zora

This seems very much one of those 'There's nothing to say it ISN'T the case, so I will believe it despite their being nothing really to say it IS.' which are all well and good, though the links are tenuous at best.

I agree. We know next to nothing about the Hero of Men, so any theories involving
him tend to be a "shot-in-the-dark".

I think it much more sensible to assume it is the Dark World itself that transformed the people, in the same way we see it transform Link and the inhabitants of the Dark World in aLttP itself.

Can't agree here. The Dark World only transformed people as a result of Ganon's
Triforce wish.

Japanese never says "beings" came out.
Only that evil came out.

Can't agree here. The Dark World only transformed people as a result of Ganon's
Triforce wish.

But if there was a tainting of the sacred realm pre-Ganon's wish then it would surely have the same effect?

Ganon never wished 'I wish anyone who came in here transformed', it was merely a side effect of the Dark World's taint.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

The first Zelda is born and the Triforce is returned to the Sacred Realm via wish
or physical means.

Next comes Ocarina of Time...

This seems like a decent plot element for Zelda Wii. Maybe Link and two other people each have a piece of the Triforce and at the end, it is wished upon or something and returned to the Sacred Realm. The Temple of Time is then built. Also, the Master Sword is created to make sure that the Triforce stays in the Sacred Realm.

Overall, nice theory. I had a similar idea myself, although, mine was that the Hero of Men occurred during the Interloper conflict, but your theory has a nicer flow to it.

-----------------------------------------

Allow me to alter your theory to suit my needs and wants.

Interloper conflict: A group of people with dark magic attempt to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. They fail and are sealed in the Twilight Realm by the Light Spirits.

Bound Chest: The evil that the Interlopers created start to come forth from the Sacred Realm, so the Picori appear to grant the Hero of Men the Picori Blade and the Light Force.

Great Ruler: Once all is safe, the King of Hyrule takes the Triforce and uses it to properly govern Hyrule, leading it into an age of prosperity.

Zelda Wii (highly speculative): The Master Sword is made to protect the Triforce and after some ordeal, the Triforce is sent back to the Sacred Realm with the Master Sword protecting the entrance. The Temple of Time is then built around the Master Sword to protect the entrance to the Sacred Realm.

Ocarina of Time: Play it.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Japanese never says "beings" came out.
Only that evil came out.

Monsters are evil

The manual says that the evil coming out was Ganon's Dark Army (monsters).
I believe Ganon himself has been disconnected from the story, but I think the evil
is still monsters...

Originally Posted by River Zora

But if there was a tainting of the sacred realm pre-Ganon's wish then it would surely have the same effect?

I never claimed the Sacred Realm was tainted before OoT, just that there were
monsters in it. The interlopers made people into monsters, not the realm itself.
(In this theory)

Ganon never wished 'I wish anyone who came in here transformed', it was merely a side effect of the Dark World's taint.

This side effect did not come before Ganon's wish.

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

...I had a similar idea myself, although, mine was that the Hero of Men occurred during the Interloper conflict, but your theory has a nicer flow to it.

I have an alternate theory that is closer to what you suggested, I'll bring it up later

i agree the interloper conflict and the event mentioned in the Alttp BS are plausibly the same thing, but i don't think a HoM connection is relevant. Assuming the MC is first. I take it to be long long long before anything else, in a small new hyrule, and the HoM story is about the uniting of this small new kingdom. The interloper conflict could easily go after this

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

Interloper conflict: A group of people with dark magic attempt to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. They fail and are sealed in the Twilight Realm by the Light Spirits.

Bound Chest: The evil that the Interlopers created start to come forth from the Sacred Realm, so the Picori appear to grant the Hero of Men the Picori Blade and the Light Force.

Great Ruler: Once all is safe, the King of Hyrule takes the Triforce and uses it to properly govern Hyrule, leading it into an age of prosperity.

Zelda Wii (highly speculative): The Master Sword is made to protect the Triforce and after some ordeal, the Triforce is sent back to the Sacred Realm with the Master Sword protecting the entrance. The Temple of Time is then built around the Master Sword to protect the entrance to the Sacred Realm.

i like it a lot , it leads very nicely into OoT
but why would they need to make the master sword if they have the picori blade??

Originally Posted by Twilit Mask of Time

i agree the interloper conflict and the event mentioned in the Alttp BS are plausibly the same thing, but i don't think a HoM connection is relevant. Assuming the MC is first. I take it to be long long long before anything else, in a small new hyrule, and the HoM story is about the uniting of this small new kingdom. The interloper conflict could easily go after this

While I can't be too certain about the Hero of Men. I believe that the interloper
war is about the discovery of the Triforce. Since the Triforce is pictured frequently
in The Minish Cap, TMC must be after the discovery of the Triforce, i.e. after the
interloper war.

Originally Posted by mclennon_27

i like it a lot , it leads very nicely into OoT
but why would they need to make the master sword if they have the picori blade??

In my version the Master Sword exists before the Picori Blade.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

In my version the Master Sword exists before the Picori Blade.

that does make more sense, but if you think about it, why would either sword be needed if the other exists?

if the master sword is removed, couldnt the hero of men use that?

Edit: perhaps the picori blade was used because the master sword was holding the seal
maybe the hero of men was fighting a different evil?

Good question. I know that the Master Sword repels evil, but could it seal away the monsters in the
Bound Chest?

I do know that the only way to get the Triforce is to open the SR seal.
If you keep the SR shut, the monsters can't get out, but you can't get the Triforce...
If a second sword (the Picori Blade) is used the monsters can be sealed in the Bound Chest
allowing free exploration of the Sacred Realm...

Kinda fits if a king was destined to use the Triforce before OoT...

Originally Posted by Cukeman

Good question. I know that the Master Sword repels evil, but could it seal away the monsters in the
Bound Chest?

Both swords throughout the games have been used as seals of some sort or another. So, yes, it could also seal away monsters in a bound chest if it was needed to. But, if another perfectly sword is already there, then why trade it out for the Master Sword?

While the unseen Picori blade is off sealing away evil, the Master Sword is to be used. While the Master Sword is off sealing realms and portals and whatnot, then the Picori blade/Four Sword is going to be used.

Kinda fits if a king was destined to use the Triforce before OoT...

I'm sure the Triforce could easily have been taken out of the SR and screwed around with pre-OoT. Nothing in OoT's story suggests that it's been in the SR since the beginning, only that the SR is its original resting place. When not in use, why not put it back where it belongs? And while doing so, seal the realm itself with the MS to keep it from evil beings (like anyone trying to copy the actions of the Dark Interlopers).

While I can't be too certain about the Hero of Men. I believe that the interloper
war is about the discovery of the Triforce. Since the Triforce is pictured frequently
in The Minish Cap, TMC must be after the discovery of the Triforce, i.e. after the
interloper war.

but in the MC we don't see the same variety of groups to cause the conflict, we see hyrule castle town and the piccori as only established societies really, so why would there be a fight over the triforce?

assuming that MC is first, I'd have to say that the entire game predates the Interloper war otherwise there is no real reason for the piccori blade to appear by the minish. Why not just have the HoM use the master sword?

Originally Posted by Twilit Mask of Time

but in the MC we don't see the same variety of groups to cause the conflict, we see hyrule castle town and the piccori as only established societies really, so why would there be a fight over the triforce?

assuming that MC is first, I'd have to say that the entire game predates the Interloper war otherwise there is no real reason for the piccori blade to appear by the minish. Why not just have the HoM use the master sword?

I appreciate that, but I don't see people using the Triforce crest (in MC) before they
know that the Triforce exists...

Originally Posted by Sparty

I'm sure the Triforce could easily have been taken out of the SR and screwed around with pre-OoT. Nothing in OoT's story suggests that it's been in the SR since the beginning, only that the SR is its original resting place. When not in use, why not put it back where it belongs? And while doing so, seal the realm itself with the MS to keep it from evil beings (like anyone trying to copy the actions of the Dark Interlopers).

I agree. OoT is good indication that the SR has never been corrupted before, but
that doesn't mean no one visited it, or that the Triforce wasn't used for good
purposes. To build the Temple of Time and seal the SR with the Master Sword,
a history of interaction with the Sacred Realm is necessary.

I know people say the MS was created for the prophesied Hero (OoT Link), but
there still has to be a reason they sealed the Sacred Realm with it.

Perhaps ZWii will even show us the origins of the Temple of Time, why it was built to guard the Sacred Realm, and why the MS was used as the seal. Perhaps this will be the time of the Fierce War of OoT or even the history of the Dark Interlopers (or both combined ).