Dark World / Imprisoning War questions

So, the timeline would be:

OoT - LoZ/AoL - FS/FSA - ALttP

That makes perfect sense seeing as FSA can fill in the gap quite nicely, but then WW comes along and kills Ganon and reunites the Triforce again, leaving us an unexplainable gap between WW and LoZ (unless ST fills it in by reviving Ganon and breaking the Triforce).

Well If the original intent was OoT-LoZ-AlttP that would mean that OoT never directly connected to ALttP (if it connected at all) so TWW doesn't actually screw that much up.

What I meant was that at the end of WW, Ganon is dead and the Triforce is united, but in LoZ, Ganon is alive and the Triforce is broken.

LoZ can work with the Ganon spirit thing as in TWW only Ganondorf dies, not Ganon the spirit.

Triforce I'm a bit iffy with...it might have been part of daphnese wish.

^ Like in Lex's article of how Daphnes wished for the Triforce of Courage to be hidden or something?

Yeah something like that.

The only difference is that I'm not sure on the AoL BS like Lex is.

Actually, could OoX fill in that gap as it shows Ganon being revived and the Triforce united in Hyrule?

Also, would TMC fit better before LoZ or after?

Yes OoX fills it in even better, but I'm talking about when it was only OoT ALttP and LoZ/AoL.

would TMC fit better before LoZ or after?

If you place games on the AT, I'd say LoZ works MUCH better before TMC. However if you place LoZ on the CT then TMC has to come last and TMC first.

Originally Posted by Sparty

So then, Miyamoto's timeline of LoZ/AoL - ALttP makes sense if the SW comes between the gap in these games. After AoL, you're implying that the Triforce was placed in the Sacred Realm (or placed back in it, as it would be) and then Ganondorf stumbled upon this realm by accident.

The question would be...is this the same Ganondorf as the one from OoT or a completely new individual?

Interesting proposition you have here with the game placement and SW placement, Pinecove. (If I'm understanding you correctly, that is.)

But, Miyamoto's time line was OoT--->LoZ/AoL--->ALttP

And when that was, OoT was the seal war.

Anyway, nice idea pinecove. I like it.

I'm a current believer in a single Ganon, but it sways back and forth.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

If you place games on the AT, I'd say LoZ works MUCH better before TMC. However if you place LoZ on the CT then TMC has to come last and TMC first.

Could you explain why LoZ - TMC works better please? I'm learning.

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

Could you explain why LoZ - TMC works better please? I'm learning.

I'm questioning that as well. MC fits much better in a (if it exists) New Hyrule, then magically old one un floods, then we have 2 Hyrules for LoZ/AoL.

Watties, no. There won't be an "unflood". One Hyrule at a time please.

I agree that the Hyrule under the Great Sea will never deflood. WW's whole theme was about moving on and letting go of the past. If there's a land called Hyrule after tWW it's going to be this theoretical "New Hyrule".

Or.

The Great Deku Tree's plan to grow forests that will eventually connect all the islands will work and then we'll have a New Hyrule many thousands of leagues above the old one...and this one will still have Old Hylian architecture and artifacts. No true proof that this is the case either though.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

OoT-Ganon has the ToP
LoZ-Ganon has the ToP

OoT is LoZ's backstory for Ganon getting the ToP. Easy enough.

We knoe for a fact Hyrule regained the entire triforce in AoL...Yeah that sounds about right. Makes sense really if you look at the context of AlttP in what way Ganon entered the SR.

But doesn't that interrupt the backstory of LoZ? It's told as if it all happens without some other major event happening between then. If I'm interpreting this correctly, then this happens.

A very long time ago, the world was still in an age of confusion.

In a little kingdom, located in the Hyrule region, generations had told about the golden triangular Triforce, which hold mysterious powers.

One day, the Great Demon King Ganon, who planned to rule the world with darkness and fear, led an evil army corps and invaded the kingdom and snatched the Triforce of Power.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
THEN HE IS SEALED IN THE SACRED REALM AFTER BEING DEFEATED AND BREAKS FREE.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zelda, the princess of the little kingdom, had feared the wicked rule (by Ganon). In order to protect the other Triforce, the Triforce of Wisdom, Zelda divided it into eight parts and hid those in various places.

And, at the same time, she ordered her most trusted person, her own nursing mother Impa, to secretly escape and search for a person with the courage to defeat Ganon.

Upon hearing this, Ganon got angry and seized the princess and released a pursuit party of underlings after Impa.

I'm curious to know; where do you place AoL's backstory? I'm thinking you believe it's before LoZ, but after OoT?

Plus, the ending of ALttP sets up for AoL's BS as well; it's reasonable to assume Hyrule acquired the full Triforce at the end.

Regarding the "Miyamoto Timeline", I'll just quote myself:

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

If the order was OoT-LoZ-AoL-ALttP, Ganon's Makai would have to be the Sacred Realm. In AoL's manual, it is said that Ganon's minions can bring lackeys out of Ganon's Makai without difficulty. Thus the Sages' Seal from OoT would logically be broken. After Link assembles and uses the entire Triforce, Ganon's Makai should cease to exist.

With that in mind, ALttP would have to feature a new Ganondorf wandering into a pristine Sacred Realm and corrupting it before a new Sages' Seal is made. Thus, there would be no point in mentioning the IW, seeing as how that Ganon was dead, that seal was broken, and that Dark World had ceased to exist.

OoT-LoZ-AoL-ALttP doesn't make sense.

As for the Imprisoning War, while I believe that it was once meant to be Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker and Nintendo's attempt to make FSA the Imprisoning War have since retconned Ocarina of Time's status as the Imprisoning War. I currently believe that the Imprisoning War is not represented by any game, and I also believe that it occurs on the Child Timeline.

I'm of the same opinion as Average Gamer.

Originally Posted by Beem

Could you explain why LoZ - TMC works better please? I'm learning.

It works better with Geography, Ganon's titles, and the sleeping Zelda story.

Originally Posted by Sparty

The Great Deku Tree's plan to grow forests that will eventually connect all the islands will work and then we'll have a New Hyrule many thousands of leagues above the old one...and this one will still have Old Hylian architecture and artifacts. No true proof that this is the case either though.

No absolute proof but there IS the intention.

Originally Posted by Jarsh

I'm curious to know; where do you place AoL's backstory? I'm thinking you believe it's before LoZ, but after OoT?

Plus, the ending of ALttP sets up for AoL's BS as well; it's reasonable to assume Hyrule acquired the full Triforce at the end.

Right now I place it just before LoZ (although thet might change) but for the original intent I'd say it came after OoT and before LoZ with OoT zelda being the sleeping princess.

Yes that's possible, but there's still the issue with the Triforce from OoT to ALttP. I'm not saying ALttP-LoZ isn't valid now (and in all honesty, TWW with Owsen's quote may have destoryed the OoT-LoZ-ALttP connection) but it worked better in the past.

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

Regarding the "Miyamoto Timeline", I'll just quote myself:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gamer
If the order was OoT-LoZ-AoL-ALttP, Ganon's Makai would have to be the Sacred Realm. In AoL's manual, it is said that Ganon's minions can bring lackeys out of Ganon's Makai without difficulty. Thus the Sages' Seal from OoT would logically be broken. After Link assembles and uses the entire Triforce, Ganon's Makai should cease to exist.

With that in mind, ALttP would have to feature a new Ganondorf wandering into a pristine Sacred Realm and corrupting it before a new Sages' Seal is made. Thus, there would be no point in mentioning the IW, seeing as how that Ganon was dead, that seal was broken, and that Dark World had ceased to exist.

OoT-LoZ-AoL-ALttP doesn't make sense.

As for the Imprisoning War, while I believe that it was once meant to be Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker and Nintendo's attempt to make FSA the Imprisoning War have since retconned Ocarina of Time's status as the Imprisoning War. I currently believe that the Imprisoning War is not represented by any game, and I also believe that it occurs on the Child Timeline.

I'm not going to argue current SW, because that'll lead us back to quare one. For my full opinions however you can read my personal veiws on points of controversy.

With your "Makai being SR" theory, I have to say I disagree. If OoT-ALttP-LoZ happens then Ganon's Makai isn't the SR and it has to be something else-hell. That being said it's possible for Ganon's Maki in LoZ/AoL to also be hell, even if the order is OoT-LoZ-ALttP.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Right now I place it just before LoZ (although thet might change) but for the original intent I'd say it came after OoT and before LoZ with OoT zelda being the sleeping princess.

Could you explain how that works in terms of the Triforce? The king was supposed to have the full Triforce, I believe:

Long ago, when Hyrule was still one country, a great King was said to have used the Triforce to maintain order in Hyrule.

But how could that be if Ganon was still sealed in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of Power?

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Yes that's possible, but there's still the issue with the Triforce from OoT to ALttP. I'm not saying ALttP-LoZ isn't valid now (and in all honesty, TWW with Owsen's quote may have destoryed the OoT-LoZ-ALttP connection) but it worked better in the past.

ALttP-LoZ indeed does have a problem in terms of the Triforce. I know not everyone agrees with this, but if Miyamoto didn't really understand the timeline all along, then I believe there may have been no reason to disregard the back of ALttP's (even the Japanese version's) box.

Could you explain how that works in terms of the Triforce? The king was supposed to have the full Triforce, I believe:

It doesn't imply that the king used the Triforce.

"He used the Triforce to maintain peace" could be as similar to OoT's senario of "Ganondorf used the Triforce to cover Hyrule in darkness."

ALttP-LoZ indeed does have a problem in terms of the Triforce. I know not everyone agrees with this, but if Miyamoto didn't really understand the timeline all along, then I believe there may have been no reason to disregard the back of ALttP's (even the Japanese version's) box.

...wait what?

OoT-aLttP-LoZ-AoL doesn't make sense either though, Average Gamer.

-Triforce incosistency in between OoT/aLttP
-Sage/Town Name inconsistency if LoZ/AoL come after aLttP
-Sleeping Zelda cannot be "first generation" Zelda
-Unexplained Ganon resurrection
-Unexplained change of titles (if you believe it relevant)
-No reason for the King to have the Triforce post-aLttP to set up the AoL backstory, as it was in the Sacred Realm in aLttP's ending