Hyrule's Dark Age

In A Link to the Past Hyrule seems to be in a dark age.

ALttP is set long after Ocarina of Time:

Originally Posted by OoT

They say we Hylians have big ears
in order to hear the voices of the
gods...but I've never heard them!

Welcome to Hyrule Castle Town.
It's a peaceful, prosperous town.

Originally Posted by ALttP

Long ago a prosperous people,
known as the Hylians, inhabited
this land...

^ By the time of ALttP, the Hylian race seem to have faded into history.

The items Link collects are rare magical items from a past civilization:

Originally Posted by ALttP

Legends tell of treasures with
mystical powers that remain
from the Hylian age...

Originally Posted by ALttP Sahasrahla

If you bring it here, I will tell
you more of the legend and
give you a magical artifact.

It is a treasure passed down
by the families of the sages.
I want you to have it.

He gave you the Pegasus
Shoes! Now you can execute a
devastating dash attack!

^ Sahasrahla gives Link the Pegasus Shoes, which have been passed down by the Sages.
This rare item was once commonly made in Hyrule:

Originally Posted by MC

You know, a friend of mine makes shoes
in Hyrule's shoe shop.
I'm pretty sure he can make
Pegasus Boots...

Say, have you been to Rem's Shoe
Shop? His shoes really are the best.
I'm sure they could help you on your
quest. Why don't you give him a visit?

The proprietor of Rem's Shoe Store.
Using his "secret technique," he makes
shoes in his sleep. Princess Zelda is
his single biggest source of income.

Ooh, I need to hurry up and get
working on that special order...
The king asked me to make some
shoes for Princess Zelda, you see.

I need to hurry up and make those
shoes for Princess Zelda!

Whuzza?! Oh, welcome!
Welcome to Rem's Shoe Shop!
I must have dozed off again...
Time to make the shoes!

Those Pegasus Boots will make you
want to dash everywhere!
It's really fun to run headlong into
stuff and really shake things up!

Lately, whenever I take a nap, all my
shoes are done when I wake up!
You know, if I can make shoes in my
sleep, I must be in the right job!

^ Although the Picori help Rem to complete his orders, we can assume that he
knows how to make the shoes, since he does the beginning and the end, he
probably knows the middle part; besides who would start to make an item without
knowing how to complete it? -especially an item you've made & sold before.*

The people in ALttP probably have no idea how these magical artifacts/treasures
work, even a basic Lamp in ALttP works 'by magic', consuming your Magic Meter.

In OoT we find the Megaton Hammer, but in ALttP Link receives the 'Magic Hammer',
again suggesting that the people don't understand the ancient technology/magic.

Twilight Princess also shows this decline into a lesser civilization. The Dominion
Rod is so old it has lost its power:

You got the Dominion Rod!
This amazing rod can infuse
ancient statues with life.

A mystical rod that breathes life into
ancient statues.
Its power has waned since being removed
from the Temple of Time.
It cannot be used in this state.

Doesn't someone know the spell
that will restore power to the
Dominion Rod?

In both Twilight Princess and The Minish Cap, advanced civilizations have left
Hyrule for the sky (the Oocca and the Wind Tribe). The Hylians, said to hear
messages from the gods have faded away, and with these higher civilizations gone,
the surface dwellers seem to have regressed.

By the time of TP, the Temple of Time (the entrance to the Sacred Realm) is in
ruins, and by the time of ALttP the knowledge of where the SR entrance is located
has been lost. This must be long after the OoT Sages and the Royal Family watched
over the Temple of Time:

Originally Posted by ALttP Maiden

...The Triforce will grant the
wishes of whoever touches it,
as long as that person lives...
That is why it was hidden in
the Golden Land. Only a select
few were told of its location,
but at some point that
knowledge was lost...
The one who rediscovered
the Golden Land was
an evil thief named Ganondorf.
Luckily, he couldn't figure out
how to return to the Light
World...

^ When the Sacred Realm is rediscovered, no one knows its original name, they
simply call it the 'Golden Land'.**

The Master Sword's pedestal in ALttP seems to be all that remains of the
Temple of Time ruins seen in Twilight Princess:



ALttP has several ties to The Minish Cap.

- Link's Flute in ALttP awakens Zeffa, a bird who flew MC Link around Hyrule
- The monuments where Link receives the Ether and Bombos medallions crumble
in a similar fashion to the Wind Crest monuments seen in MC
- The places Zeffa takes Link in ALttP are probably where Wind Crest monuments
once stood
- The MC map matches up nicely to the ALttP map, even Syrup's hut lines up well:

ALttP / MC Map Comparison

I think the decline of Hyrule suggests this arc:
MC -> OoT -> TP -> ALttP

On the Adult Timeline however, people seem to be moving technologically
forwards with PH Link's boat and ST Link's train...

*I think that The Minish Cap is set in the Hylian age before OoT.

**With no knowledge of the Temple of Time, or the Sacred Realm, FSA fits nicely
between TP and ALttP. I think FSA shows the rediscovery of the Sacred Realm.
(I also think that FSA's "teatable" is what happened when the Zelda team tried
to make the events of FSA be the Seal War, Miyamoto changed this, leaving OoT
and the interlopers as the links to the Seal War, and instead of a Seal War game
set ages before ALttP, FSA became a backstory for ALttP Ganon and his Trident
- a prequel much closer to the time of ALttP, having the same map, desert palace,
moon pearls etc., and featuring a band of thieves to tie in to ALttP's backstory)

ALttP has several ties to The Minish Cap.

No doubt. Every game is tied to aLttP to some degree!

- Link's Flute in ALttP awakens Zeffa, a bird who flew MC Link around Hyrule

Ok- the first one's wrong- it does not awaken Zeffa. The bird isn't given a name in aLttP. It also seems to be a white duck whereas Zeffa is a blue canaryish parroty know-it-all bird type thing. Still a good nod though.

- The monuments where Link receives the Ether and Bombos medallions crumble
in a similar fashion to the Wind Crest monuments seen in MC

Again, a fun nod- but in no way story relevent, necessitate a same timeline placement and similarities like this are all over the place.

- The places Zeffa takes Link in ALttP are probably where Wind Crest monuments
once stood

Not counting this at all. 'probably' doesn't cut it. If you think your last point is correct try to see if they match up so well, the wind crest positions

- The MC map matches up nicely to the ALttP map, even Syrup's hut lines up well:

Again, I disagree with this entirely! Crenel and the Falls are new landmarks so far as I can tell- similar to in theme, but otherwise unlike anything else so far. tMC can not be the same Hyrule as seen in any other game that I can tell.

^ Zora basically said everything I was going to.

Except the whole "every game ties to ALttP to some degree". Though I agree, if there is a split time line, really can't happen. Unless... Zora, you believing in the double ALttP theory???????????

Cukeman wasn't it discussed in another thread about how some elements were removed from TP's ending(or added in). The only significant changes could have been the mirror remaining intact and Ganny's speech. Now it doesn't really matter which one it's referring to because both destroy the FSA TP connection. The mirror because it is very likely it returns in FSA and the speech because it talked about how Ganon will be born again. Combine this with the islandness of Hyrule in FSA and a CT placement is becoming unlikely.

This is a good theory, Cukeman, but I don't think FSA really matches with the Pegasus Boots connection. They're popular in TMC, gone in OoT and TP, pretty abundant in FSA, and legendary in ALttP. If anything, FSA should at least be on the AT or before OoT because of that.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

The only significant changes could have been the mirror remaining intact and Ganny's speech. Now it doesn't really matter which one it's referring to because both destroy the FSA TP connection.

There is no proof that the mirrors are the same and Ganon's final sentence of "Do not think this ends here" still suggests he will be back. He HAS to come back at some point, because ALTTP can't take place on the adult timeline.

Link92: Debatable. But they removed the part where he specifically talked about the triforce bearers which are the three of them. He just says light and shadow but doesn't give any concrete indication that it's the three of them he's talking about.

As for the mirrors let's see: They both sealed a dark evil tribe, their names are similar(Dark Mirror, Twilight Mirror), in each case Ganon uses them to summon bring forth some kind of servant(Shadow Link, Zant), also the storywriter for TP also did FSA's story. Should I continue?

ALTTP can't take place on the adult timeline.

The majority of the Old Gen Theorists wouldn't like this...

Even I don't!

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

As for the mirrors let's see: They both sealed a dark evil tribe, their names are similar(Dark Mirror, Twilight Mirror), in each case Ganon uses them to summon bring forth some kind of servant(Shadow Link, Zant), also the storywriter for TP also did FSA's story.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...ame-thing.html

This thread covers the mirror issue.

These are the three differences the guy bring up:

1. Midna's quote on the Twilight Mirror makes it clear that the Twili are in another world that is connected to Hyrule through the Twilight Mirror. According to Dampe and the Forest Maiden in FSA, there is a tribe literally sealed inside the Dark Mirror, not in another world.

2. The Forsest Maiden says that the Dark Mirror was hidden in the forest temple after the tribe was sealed in the mirror. The Twilight Mirror had its own chamber in the desert.

3. The Dark Mirror has properties that the Twilight Mirror does not have, such as spawning dark versions of Link and creating dark clouds when in evil hands.

I will now shoot them down to the best of my ability:

1. How do the ordinary peasants know the way the mirrors seal you? Really this isn't a very big problem IMO.

2. True but how do we know it wasn't moved after the flood?

3. Spawning dark clouds seems pretty similar to covering the world in a Twilight curtain IMO. Also just because it isn't shown doing this doesn't mean it can't. Example the ALTTP MS can shoot beams but the OOT, TP, and WW ones can't. Are they different swords? No this power just wasn't shown.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

1. How do the ordinary peasants know the way the mirrors seal you?

That "peasant's" description of how the Dark Mirror worked matches up with the Forest Maiden's description, and the Forest Maiden certainly isn't an "ordinary peasant".

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

2. True but how do we know it wasn't moved after the flood?

Ganon seemingly slaughtered all of the Sages when he broke out of the Sacred Realm, meaning that nobody was around to move the mirror. Also, the Forest Maiden's words suggest that the Dark Mirror was hidden in the forest immediately after the Dark Tribe was sealed in it.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

3. Spawning dark clouds seems pretty similar to covering the world in a Twilight curtain IMO.

The Mirror of Twilight had nothing to do with the Twilight Curtain. Saying that it could generate a Twilight Curtain is a large stretch that could possibly be deemed fan fiction.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Example the ALTTP MS can shoot beams but the OOT, TP, and WW ones can't.

Your example doesn't work out because we know that the Master Sword is the same blade in all of those games. We have no proof that the mirrors are the same. Also, if Majora's Mask is any indication, the beam sword would be overpowered if implemented in the 3D games.

Average: I just gave reasons on why they are the same really how many mirrors that sealed dark evil tribes do you think there are? And OOT contradicts ALTTP so why should FSA and TP match perfectly? they're still pretty damn similar. The hilt is a different color in ALTTP, i know this is a weak arguement but I just figured I'd mention it.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Average: I just gave reasons on why they are the same really how many mirrors that sealed dark evil tribes do you think there are?

As pointed out in that thread I linked to and my previous post, there are many differences between the mirrors, not to mention that Nintendo likes to reuse ideas of enchanted mirrors, rods that shoot fire, etc throughout the series.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

The hilt is a different color in ALTTP,

It is still obviously meant to be the same Master Sword, not to mention that the design is still similar.

Gamer: Okay do you have a pic of the Dark mirror or know where i could find one? I'd like to compare them.

I'll find a Youtube video. Before I find it though, I'll point out the physical differences between the mirrors.

Dark Mirror: clear blue glass, large golden rim around mirror.

Mirror of Twilight: Made of black stone with a glossy side, tons of engravings.

Edit: Here's a Youtube video featuring the Dark Mirror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t4Qmf35jZY

Originally Posted by River Zora

Not counting this at all. 'probably' doesn't cut it. If you think your last point is correct try to see if they match up so well, the wind crest positions

There could be wind crests in Hyrule that MC Link doesn't visit... who knows?

Again, I disagree with this entirely! Crenel and the Falls are new landmarks so far as I can tell- similar to in theme, but otherwise unlike anything else so far. tMC can not be the same Hyrule as seen in any other game that I can tell.

Look at the huge mountain range in TP. Only the small eastern portion in Eldin
is Death Mountain, don't you think one of the other peaks in the mountain range
could be called Mt Crenel? Also, I believe Veil Falls is the Sleepless Waterfall in OoT.
In ALttP, Lake Hylia has two sources, Zora's Lake in the NE (home to River Zoras)
and Veil/Sleepless Falls which leads to Zora's Domain (my theory).

ANYWAYS...

Wasn't really trying to prove a timeline arc...
I wanted to bring up a discussion of:

- ALttP's Dark Age vs. the Adult Timeline
- Anything else hinting to a Dark Age in Zelda
- Anything we can determine about the timeline (or other Zelda aspects) from said Dark Age

I wanted people to theorize about the Dark Age and possible implications, whether
they match my arc or not...

I hadn't really considered before that ALttP shows signs of cultural regression

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

1. How do the ordinary peasants know the way the mirrors seal you? Really this isn't a very big problem IMO.

Oh, god. Do you not realize that the peasants are fictional characters created by real developers? If a character says something in a video game, it's coming from the mouths of the developers, not the characters themselves, because they don't really exist.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

2. True but how do we know it wasn't moved after the flood?

Because that's never even been hinted at. The Dark Mirror was placed in its wresting place immediately after sealing the Dark Tribe, which, if it's the same as the Twilight Mirror, would have taken place before OoT, before the timeline split ever occured. And because the Mirror of Twilight is in a completely different resting place in TP, this further adds to the belief that the two mirrors are not the same.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

3. Spawning dark clouds seems pretty similar to covering the world in a Twilight curtain IMO. Also just because it isn't shown doing this doesn't mean it can't. Example the ALTTP MS can shoot beams but the OOT, TP, and WW ones can't. Are they different swords? No this power just wasn't shown.

That example doesn't work at all. We're not talking about the Master Sword, we're talking about the Mirrors, which are in no way even remotely similar. That's like saying, because Ganon has come back to life before, Majora can do it, too. They're completely different, so no comparison can be made.

Also, the Master Sword has been proven to fluctuate in power and abilities, whereas the Mirrors have never been shown to do anything of the sort. They also look nothing alike whereas the Master Sword always looks relatively similar between the games, except when its power changes, like in ALTTP. But even in ALTTP's final scene of the Lost Woods, the Master Sword looks exactly like its TP incarnation.

I'm going to laugh when a true timeline is released that places games involving the Master Sword AFTER ALttP. Of course, this should never happen, but I will still have a mighty laugh of it.

Originally Posted by Sparty

I'm going to laugh when a true timeline is released that places games involving the Master Sword AFTER ALttP. Of course, this should never happen, but I will still have a mighty laugh of it.

AST, anyone?

Yes, the Master Sword is sleeping very soundly...in my hand!!!