The greatest debate: timeline theories!

okay.....
a. i put tp after alttp, because in alttp, the dark relam was opened....in tp, in some sence the twilight realm is the dark realm, and has a much more tron like look.....so this could have been taken years later.......
b. if you look at the timeline where link goes off to termina...he heads back home, but is obviously side tracked forr OoX, then at the end of the two games (or one) he leaves on a boat, which leads to links awakening.....but mayb the time when the hero of time stopped ganon in tww prologue is the oot...so during links time in termina, the great flood happened.....so that leave tww, ph, and spirt tracks to come....but in siprt tracks (by what i've seen) it's more land then sea...so the great hyrule began to drain out the flood....
c. i DO believe that tmc can go anywhere, but origins, and the first tunic hat really places it at the begining......

i used a way to create this timeline by taking one game at a time....using background info from other games to create this so first my time line was obviously...LoZ, AoL....so then continuing on and on it seemed less confusing until debating the finally product and the games that either have little info, or dont take place in hyrule.......seeeeee?....ps.....I'VE BEEN HERE 2YEARS NOW.........!!!!

if you look at the timeline where link goes off to termina...he heads back home, but is obviously side tracked forr OoX,

But how can he be- OoX requires two things for a placement- The Triforce in, or at least accessible via, Hyrule Castle; and Ganon to be dead.

Neither of these things is the case after MM.

Originally Posted by River Zora

I know this isn't a tMC thread- God knows we've had enough of those- but I always thought Ezlo's-

'I haven't seen you in a hat yet... hm... yes you really do look like hero now!'

Implies there is already the stereotype 'Hero Look' in tMC by past heroes.

Heh... You know, I've never actually seen you wearing a cap until now! It suits you, little hero.

:|

Originally Posted by zeldahis101

okay.....
a. i put tp after alttp, because in alttp, the dark relam was opened....in tp, in some sence the twilight realm is the dark realm, and has a much more tron like look.....so this could have been taken years later.......

The Dark World is not the Twilight Realm. At the end of ALTTP, it is confirmed that, because Ganon has been destroyed, "his dark world will vanish." Also, you didn't explain how Ganon could be alive in TP if he was killed in ALTTP. TP taking place after ALTTP is impossible. And the Dark World doesn't turn into the Twilight Realm with age. That's just silly.

Originally Posted by zeldahis101

if you look at the timeline where link goes off to termina...he heads back home, but is obviously side tracked forr OoX,

What makes you say this? Ganon was dead prior to OoX and the Triforce was in Hyrule Castle. None of this is the case with MM. And what makes you think Link goes straight from Termina to OoX? Because he has Epona? I can just as easily say he goes to Holodrum/Labrynna after TP because he is on Epona.

Originally Posted by zeldahis101

then at the end of the two games (or one) he leaves on a boat, which leads to links awakening.....but mayb the time when the hero of time stopped ganon in tww prologue is the oot...so during links time in termina, the great flood happened.....so that leave tww, ph, and spirt tracks to come....but in siprt tracks (by what i've seen) it's more land then sea...so the great hyrule began to drain out the flood....

WW and PH take place on a timeline where MM never happened.

Originally Posted by Link92

I can just as easily say he goes to Holodrum/Labrynna after TP because he is on Epona.

This actually works better.
1. Ganon is dead.
2. Twinrova is alive (probably)
3. The Triforce is in Hyrule
4. Link has Epona

Flaws:
Zelda hasn't met Link before.

This is why I place OoX about 100 years after TP.

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

3. The Triforce is in Hyrule

Evidence being?

Evidence...as opposed to it being outside of Hyrule? You mean in OoX, right? In OoX, Link rides to Hyrule Castle and finds the Triforce in a chamber there.

More Evidence: in the OoS Manga by Akira Himekawa even he depicts the Triforce as being possessed by the Royal Family. So...even there we get another look at the Triforce being in Hyrule.

Arguments? Disagreements? Tea parties? Let's hear it.

That is not what I meant. The Triforce is always in Hyrule. I think the point Beemnorv was trying to make is that the state of Triforce in OoX could be compared to its state in TP. Which was one of the reason for OoX happening afterwards.
But that's not true, because we know practically nothing about The Triforce in TP. While in OoX we even know its physical location in the beginning.
Of course, if SR ≠ Hyrule in this case, then yeah. Its not always in Hyrule. Still doesn't change the fact that we do not know The Triforce physical location in TP. Also, OoX itself proves that a Triforce mark ≠ Triforce itself. So its not neccesairly in Hyrule.

Also, its not wise to use the manga as reference or evidence. While its has Nintendo approval, its mostly an stand-alone work where the author bases the story of that in the Zelda games. Its not canon with the series itself.

Ah, I meant no harm in referencing the manga. As you can see, I even used it only as secondary evidence, once I had pointed out the in-game evidence.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Ah, I meant no harm in referencing the manga. As you can see, I even used it only as secondary evidence, once I had pointed out the in-game evidence.

The manga changes way to many plot elements to be taken in any way canon. It can't be secondary evidence, because it screws up everything that is canon.

Originally Posted by Nerushi

I think the point Beemnorv was trying to make is that the state of Triforce in OoX could be compared to its state in TP. Which was one of the reason for OoX happening afterwards.

Basically, yes. Even though the Triforce isn't proven to be in Hyrule in TP, supposedly it was possessed by Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. My opinion on this matter is that after Link killed Ganondorf, Zelda took the Triforce of Power and asked Link for the Triforce of Courage. Link agreed and Zelda took the Triforce to Hyrule Castle for safe-keeping.

Alternately, the Triforce could have been in the Sacred Realm in OoX, Link having gone through a portal to the Sacred Realm in the intro.

Originally Posted by Watties

The manga changes way to many plot elements to be taken in any way canon. It can't be secondary evidence, because it screws up everything that is canon.

Watties, please think before you speak.

Anything in the Manga can be used as secondary evidence as long as the in-game stuff has been explained first. And then the manga evidence can be presented as long as what's being brought to the table doesn't convolute anything and backs up the first bit of evidence.

Not to mention, but the game developers constantly look back at the manga for inspiration, ideas, and storyline for new Zelda games. I put forth my conditions in bringing up the manga, so don't be so hasty to shoot it down.

Can it be used as primary evidence? Hardly ever. But if it backs up the primary evidence as secondary evidence, then you can further see intent, which is much of what we strive to understand as theorists.

Originally Posted by Nerushi

Also, OoX itself proves that a Triforce mark ≠ Triforce itself. So its not neccesairly in Hyrule.

Ganondorf : "He who wields this power would make a suitable king for this world, don't you think?"

Sages: "By some devine prank, he, too, had been blessed with the chosen power of the gods."

Both of the above quotes are as good as saying "Ganondorf has the Triforce." The first quote wouldn't make any sense otherwise. If he wields the power, he possesses it. And Link wasn't turned into a wolf because he was destined to have the Triforce of Courage, he was turned into a wolf because he possessed the Triforce.

You can quote and interpretate all you want. It doesn't change the fact the we never see or hear about the Triforce itself. All there is, is cryptic talk of godness power.
I am not saying the Godness power isn't the Triforce, just that the Triforce itself is situated somewhere else, which in my opinion is in the Sacred Realm, where it has always been. I can confidently advocate this because the 'Triforce' in TP differs a lot from previous situations. For example, in WW we actually witness the Triforce in its whole state. Ganon is even capable of uniting it just by having all the three bearers present.
In TP? Not so much. Actually, when Ganondorf dies in TP, his mark fades, and I interpretate this as him being disconnected from the Triforce. The Triforce doesn't dump down on the ground which would make sense if he actually physcially poessed it like in other games.
This is backed up by the way Link, Zelda and Ganondorf just seem to 'have' the Triforce mark ( or it just randomly appearing ). This seem to contradict the way of attaining it in other games, where it is actally neccesary for someone to touch them to attain it.

Yes, it's a good bet that Link, Zelda, and G-dorf each possessed a piece of the Triforce in TP, but that's not set in stone. Neither the english nor the japanese version of the game reference the Triforce in anyway. All these characters are said to possess are divine powers. Interpret this how you will. I choose to think of them as having the Triforce pieces, but that's just my opinion and isn't truly based on much hard evidence.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Watties, please think before you speak.

Anything in the Manga can be used as secondary evidence as long as the in-game stuff has been explained first. And then the manga evidence can be presented as long as what's being brought to the table doesn't convolute anything and backs up the first bit of evidence.

Not to mention, but the game developers constantly look back at the manga for inspiration, ideas, and storyline for new Zelda games. I put forth my conditions in bringing up the manga, so don't be so hasty to shoot it down.

Can it be used as primary evidence? Hardly ever. But if it backs up the primary evidence as secondary evidence, then you can further see intent, which is much of what we strive to understand as theorists.

Think before I speak? WTF? The fact is that if the manga isn't canon and alters original story then it isn't canon. YOU think before YOU speak, and realize that once it alters story and changes everything around, it isn't any evidence.

Maybe the Triforce was in Hyrule in TP, but no one specifically mentions it because knowledge of the Triforce is being lost over time, setting the stage nicely for ALttP.

It's not canon, but it can be used to show intent or future ideas.

Bird people, Fairy partners and many other story elements can be found in the Manga first. Don't write everything off- as Sparty says, NEVER evidence, but it can supplement intent as evidence.

Originally Posted by Watties

Think before I speak? WTF? The fact is that if the manga isn't canon and alters original story then it isn't canon. YOU think before YOU speak, and realize that once it alters story and changes everything around, it isn't any evidence.

Your circular logic is even more proof to me that you can't think outside your 2 x 2 box. You know what I thought before I spoke? I thought "Damn, Watties is being a dumb ♥♥♥♥ again. I'd better call him out for it." And then I went and defended my case, and you just say I'm not thinking. Well, goodness, I see that not much thought process went through your mind when you read my well-thought out counter-argument.

I will attest, once again, that Manga is not canon. However, it can be used as evidence to further prove intent, which is exactly what I did when showing that, in-game, OoX reveals the Triforce to physically reside in Hyrule Castle, and, in-manga, it also resides in Hyrule Castle. Secondary evidence was just provided to supplement the primary evidence. This is a detail that your small brain did not comprehend and your beady eyes easily overlooked.

No one likes you, Watties. Please go cry about it because it would make me smile for you to do so.

Originally Posted by Sparty

Your circular logic is even more proof to me that you can't think outside your 2 x 2 box. You know what I thought before I spoke? I thought "Damn, Watties is being a dumb ♥♥♥♥ again. I'd better call him out for it." And then I went and defended my case, and you just say I'm not thinking. Well, goodness, I see that not much thought process went through your mind when you read my well-thought out counter-argument.

I will attest, once again, that Manga is not canon. However, it can be used as evidence to further prove intent, which is exactly what I did when showing that, in-game, OoX reveals the Triforce to physically reside in Hyrule Castle, and, in-manga, it also resides in Hyrule Castle. Secondary evidence was just provided to supplement the primary evidence. This is a detail that your small brain did not comprehend and your beady eyes easily overlooked.

No one likes you, Watties. Please go cry about it because it would make me smile for you to do so.

Nah, I'm good, don't want to make you that happy.

BACK TO TOPIC (which is something you need to do): The manga cannot be used to being in another theory absent in the games. The manga can be used as secondary evidence, as in your example, but the fact is that we saw it in game anyway, so in no way does it matter. Pshh, my 2x2 box. Sorry you have the absolute worst insults I've ever read.

Anyway, if you notice, I'm trying to theorize, and all your doing is throwing bad insults. Read some of zora's posts. They might help you.