Evolution; How does the Timeline change & grow?

Here is the order in which the US Zelda games were released:
LoZ - AoL - ALttP - LA - OoT - MM - OoA/OoS - FS - WW - FSA - MC - TP - PH - LCT

The idea of this thread is to show how you think the timeline developed with each new Zelda game.

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Key:
Red = New Game(s)
Blue = Relocated Game(s)
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1) We begin with the linear timeline
- AoL is the obvious immediate sequel to LoZ
- Miyamoto said ALttP happens after LoZ/AoL
- LA is the obvious immediate sequel to ALttP

LoZ/AoL - ALttP/LA

2) OoT/MM introduced the Split Timeline
- The AoL town names placed AoL on the AT
- MM is the obvious immediate sequel to OoT on the CT

AT: OoT - LoZ/AoL - ALttP/LA
CT: OoT/MM

3) The Oracle games attempt to revive ALttP Ganon
- OoX Ganon is based on ALttP Ganon's appearance and Trident
- OoX Link is based on ALttP Link's appearance
- OoX Link meets Zelda for the first time
- OoX Link =/= ALttP Link

AT: OoT - LoZ/AoL - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS
CT: OoT/MM

4) FS and WW were developed at the same time
- Aonuma said FS was the oldest tale
- WW referenced FS with the Hero's Shield
- WW severed the AT's connection to ALttP

AT: FS - OoT - WW - LoZ/AoL
CT: FS - OoT/MM - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

5) FSA is a prequel to ALttP
- The Palace of the Four Sword connects FS to ALttP
- FSA is the obvious immediate sequel to FS
- The placement of FS has to change:

AT: OoT - WW - LoZ/AoL
CT: OoT/MM - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

6) MC replaces FS as the origin of WW Link's Hero's Shield
- MC is the backstory for the Hero's Cap
- MC is the backstory for Daphnes' clothes
- MC is the backstory for items hidden in grass, pots, and bushes

AT: MC - OoT - WW - LoZ/AoL
CT: MC - OoT/MM - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

7) TP became the connection between OoT and ALttP
- TP Ganondorf threatens to return
- FSA Ganondorf became the reincarnation of TP Ganondorf
- The impassable desert entrance caused the Gerudo to become nomadic for FSA
- Time healed the Gerudo's connections to the Royal Family for FSA
- TP hinted that it was a prequel to LoZ

AT: MC - OoT - WW
CT: MC - OoT/MM - TP - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS
(leaving LoZ/AoL up in the air)

or

AT: MC - OoT - WW
CT: MC - OoT/MM - TP - LoZ/AoL
(leaving FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS up in the air)

or

AT: MC - OoT - WW
CT: MC - OoT/MM - TP - LoZ/AoL - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

8) LCT is the obvious immediate sequel to TP
- PH is the obvious immediate sequel to WW

How come WW completely severed ALttP from AT?

- The Palace of the Four Sword connects FS to ALttP

Disagree on its canonicity.

MC replaces FS as the origin of WW Link's Hero's Shield
- MC is the backstory for the Hero's Cap
- MC is the backstory for Daphnes' clothes
- MC is the backstory for items hidden in grass, pots, and bushes

Disagree with it all bar the last one if you replace 'the' with 'a'.

TP hinted that it was a prequel to LoZ

I'm sorry, what now?

Originally Posted by River Zora

I'm sorry, what now?

This thread presents two different (but similar) theories for connections between TP and LoZ.

And I shall quote Erimgard as the reason I didn't even bother posting in that thread.

If you take removed text as canon, disregard the AoL backstory, and come up with some fan-fic for the state of the Triforce, and ignore the sage/town name correlation...

Originally Posted by 13th

How come WW completely severed ALttP from AT?

OoT -> ALttP (on the AT) was based on the idea that the ALttP seal was the one cast by the OoT Sages.
This seal was broken in The Wind Waker. Also, the Master Sword was lost under the Great Sea,
contradicting the ALttP location of the Master Sword in a forest (which TP gives us).

Oh okay that kinda seems probable then.

I agree with the movement as the right thing to do, but disagree it is 'severed' quite so plainly as you and others claim. There is still a strong argument for AT aLttP, just not- in my opinion- as the ever strengthening CT.

If you take removed text as canon

The removed text was originally an 8 line paragraph.
The last 2 lines (out of 8) made it into the game.
These last 2 canon lines alone show intent that Ganondorf will return:

Originally Posted by TP Ganondorf

Do not think this ends here...
The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!

disregard the AoL backstory

Disregard WHAT about the AoL backstory???

and come up with some fan-fic for the state of the Triforce

TP Ganondorf with the ToP flows easily into LoZ Ganondorf with the ToP.
Especially since the Triforce is in Hyrule in TP and LoZ, no indication that
it returned to the Sacred Realm

and ignore the sage/town name correlation...

Or create a fan-fiction for the resurrection of the Sage names from a
forgotten Hyrule :|

Originally Posted by Cukeman

AT: OoT -> ALttP was based on the idea that the ALttP seal was the one cast by the OoT Sages.
This seal was broken in The Wind Waker. Also, the Master Sword was lost under the Great Sea,
contradicting the ALttP location of the Master Sword in a forest (which TP gives us).

No where in TWW was the seal stated to be broken. Ganon was said to have been "revived for no reason."

But enough about my ideas, I wanted to see how you people would describe the evolution of the timeline...
...unless you think the placements don't change over time...

I agree with most of the timeline but are you taking into consideration the geography of FS? how can it go in between TP and Alttp?

How come you just created the thread that I made two days ago?

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

No where in TWW was the seal stated to be broken. Ganon was said to have been "revived for no reason."

Originally Posted by WW

After his defeat at the hands of the Hero of
Time, Ganondorf was sealed away...but not
for all time. He was revived, and he
returned to Hyrule in a red wrath.

^ The OoT Sages seal is no longer effective (broken) by the time of WW.

When the gods heard our pleas, they chose
to seal away not only Ganon, but Hyrule
itself...and so, with a torrential downpour
of rains from the heavens...
Our fair kingdom was soon buried beneath
the waves, forgotten at the bottom of
the ocean.

^ The gods sealed away Ganon when he returned (second Ganon seal).
The gods sealed Hyrule under the Great Sea when Ganon returned.
The gods sealed Hyrule after the OoT Sages' seal was no longer effective (broken).

I do not know why the seal of the gods has
failed, but now that Ganon has
returned, the world is once again being
threatened by his evil magic.

^ The gods' seal is no longer effective by the time of WW.

You see, it is also a sort of key...
a most wretched little key that has kept
the seal on me and my magic intact!

^ The Master Sword's seal (on Ganon's monsters) is no longer effective (broken).

That's a total of three seals rendered null and void. Plus the barrier that prevents
Link from leaving Hyrule Castle to get to Ganon's Tower.

If the seal wasn't broken, then Ganondorf somehow 'got around' the seal.

But it makes no sense that OoT/WW Ganondorf can get around the old weak
seal, but ALttP Ganon is stuck behind it...

I mean, c'mon, you're being pretty silly...

Originally Posted by Exziron

I agree with most of the timeline but are you taking into consideration the geography of FS? how can it go in between TP and Alttp?

^ This Map I made shows what I think:

Sea of Trees = Lost Woods
Talus Cave = Lake Hylia
Death Mountain = Death Mtn.

Originally Posted by Watties

How come you just created the thread that I made two days ago?

Either I didn't see it, or I thought the intent of the thread was different.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

^ The OoT Sages seal is no longer effective (broken) by the time of WW.



^ The gods sealed away Ganon when he returned (second Ganon seal).
The gods sealed Hyrule under the Great Sea when Ganon returned.
The gods sealed Hyrule after the OoT Sages' seal was no longer effective (broken).



^ The gods' seal is no longer effective by the time of WW.

The gods' seal is the seal on Hyrule. Completely different from the sage's seal. I don't have time to get into how he could have bypassed it right now, but I can elaborate tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

But enough about my ideas, I wanted to see how you people would describe the evolution of the timeline...
...unless you think the placements don't change over time...

My only idea for the "evolution of the timeline" is my Pattern of Focus timeline:

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

I agree with what you've presented, Zora. From my perspective, the timeline would have looked like this pre-WW:

AT: ALttP/LA
OoT
CT: MM - LoZ/AoL - OoX

MM shows that the CT is what the focus is on as that is the "true" ending. CAPCOM follows suit and makes a game where Ganon is dead (OoX). With the CT being the main focus, it would seem that Nintendo intended on putting all the classic games on it. OoX then likely went after LoZ/AoL because:

1. Ganon is dead and it was unclear how he would have come back for ALttP,
2. There were suggestions of Ganon's minions reviving him in AoL, so it would be fitting to have someone associated with Ganon on the CT (Twinrova) attempt to revive him.

At the same time, (CAPCOM might not have known this) the AT portion of OoT was obviously not whiped from existence (as seen by the celebration during the credits) and could still remain as the Seal War. ALttP/LA could then be placed on the AT as it follows the Seal War and the AT still exists.

This next part is a bit of a stretch. As Nintendo started putting focus on the AT and they made WW (FS at this time was just a mini-game), ALttP/LA was replaced and forced to be later in that timeline (if even possible). Continuing on the timeline, FSA was made and provided a sort of explanation for Ganon being in ALttP as it was (kind of) its prequel. Because FSA referenced FS in its backstory, FS became its immediate prequel and thus became "canon". Next, TMC was made as the origin story of the Four Swords series and was likely placed after WW as the game production focus was on the AT, not the MT (a term I invented meaning "Mutual Timeline" which means that it is shared by both timelines/it is pre-split).

With the focus still on the AT, TP was made to come some time around WW, but various difficulties caused it to be discarded onto the CT, while the focus remained on the AT. PH was made a year later and was the direct sequel to WW and the new ST takes place 100 years after it. The timeline (according to all this and my rule of an AT focus) would now look like this:

AT: WW/PH - ST - TMC - FS - FSA - ALttP/LA
OoT
CT: MM - TP - LoZ/AoL - OoX

All that's needed now is an explanation for Ganon between TP and LoZ. Maybe Zelda Wii will put the focus back on the CT.

ok now it makes more sence, thanks

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

The gods' seal is the seal on Hyrule. Completely different from the sage's seal. I don't have time to get into how he could have bypassed it right now, but I can elaborate tomorrow.

Is this somehow based on the Japanese text?
The NoA Translation says that after Ganondorf escaped the OoT Sages' seal
that he was sealed again by the gods (along with Hyrule).
Then Ganon escaped the god's seal to be in The Wind Waker.

... ?

Originally Posted by Cukeman

4) FS and WW were developed at the same time
- Aonuma said FS was the oldest tale
- WW referenced FS with the Hero's Shield
- WW severed the AT's connection to ALttP

AT: FS - OoT - WW - LoZ/AoL
CT: FS - OoT/MM - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

5) FSA is a prequel to ALttP
- The Palace of the Four Sword connects FS to ALttP
- FSA is the obvious immediate sequel to FS
- The placement of FS has to change:

AT: OoT - WW - LoZ/AoL
CT: OoT/MM - FS/FSA - ALttP/LA - OoA/OoS

That is a pretty huge misconception y'know. Four Sword was never the oldest tale until AFTER FSA was made. In fact, it was stated in an interview about FSA just a few days before the release of the game in Japan.

My point is, you either place FS nowhere, because it was only a creator intent, and confirmed as the oldest tale, when FSA was released. It is not " The placement of FS has to change:" - As you never got to follow that placement to begin with, as people somehow started to think they knew better that the developers themselves.