LoZ, ALttP Placement

I will not state my opinions here, and please read this post before responding to the guy above you, because on almost every post I start, no one reads the original post and starts making assumptions based on what someone above them said, who didn't under stand the post.

Anyway, on a lot of timelines I'm seeing these days I see LoZ on the AT and ALttP on the CT. Alright, I want everyone here to provide SPECIFIC EVIDENCE, not just a master sword being in the woods, but in game evidence.

Mainly, I'm interested to know why you think they aren't together. On the back of the SNES, it says the ALttP Link is a predecessor of LoZ Link. NoJ says this is wrong, and that ALttP comes after LoZ. If you're wondering what's coming out of this, it's after these quotes, how do you figure they opposite eachother on the timeline? Both Nintendo's have claimed they are together, without knowing which one comes first.

Note: I find it funny how many of the people who put these on opposite timelines say that retcons suck. Seriously?

Depends on what you put as original intent.

If you believe the original intent was OoT-LoZ-ALttP, then the OoT-ALttP connections are not severed by TWW and ALttP works best on the AT. People who do this, generally take more things as Canon then people who go with the option displayed below.

If you believe the original intent was OoT-AlttP-LoZ then TWW breaks all of OoT and ALttP's connections and ALttP autimatically takes place on the CT. The reason I DON'T stand by this belief is because too few things are taken as Canon, and I like to take as many things as possible to be Canon.

That's perhaps the most un-biased responce you're going to get from here.

^ I think NoJ's original intent was (mainly because of them arguing over this with NoA)

OoTCT/MM/OoTAT-->LoZ/AoL-->ALttP

If they invented the split before WW... I don't know. I think MM more less implies it was linear, but what do I know? I'm almost positive that Nintendo stated somewhere the events in OoT were to be the seal war from ALttP, and I hate retcons, which is why I like an AT placement. At this point though, a CT placement is looking most probable.

AoL has towns named after the AT sages (from OoT), which are 6 different races.
ALttP has 7 Human (Presumably Hylian) maidens DESCENDED from the original 7 sages. 7 maidens of the rame race can't be descended from 7 sages of 6 different races.
Therefore, LoZ/AoL=AT, ALttP=CT.
Good enough for you?

L has towns named after the AT sages (from OoT), which are 6 different races.
ALttP has 7 Human (Presumably Hylian) maidens DESCENDED from the original 7 sages. 7 maidens of the rame race can't be descended from 7 sages of 6 different races.
Therefore, LoZ/AoL=AT, ALttP=CT.
Good enough for you?

No because in Japanese culture the word used for "decendent" doesn't mean "one of my bloodline".

Originally Posted by MetaLinkA

AoL has towns named after the AT sages (from OoT), which are 6 different races.
ALttP has 7 Human (Presumably Hylian) maidens DESCENDED from the original 7 sages. 7 maidens of the rame race can't be descended from 7 sages of 6 different races.
Therefore, LoZ/AoL=AT, ALttP=CT.
Good enough for you?

I like it, but as what it said above about japanese **** correct. Plus, it's obvious that the original intent was for OoT -->LTTP/LOZ (whichever). I presume you like retcons?

The thing that allowed me finally to swap my placement of aLttP after many a year of AT insistence is looking at logic behind developer intention.

1-OoT was going to be the Seal War to begin with- we know this.
2-They split the timeline and started ****ing about.
3-tWW came out on the AT. It has significantly more problems than just separating aLttP even with the Jap order which I followed- but I'll come back to that.
4-Since the confirmation of the split we've had no more developer comments claiming or confirming OoT as the SW.
5-We have had a retranslation removing Ganon's involvement from the SW.
6-We have had FSA which, although in its final build not successful, was intended to be the SW in development implying at the very least the possibility that Nintendo no longer have OoT=SW in stone.
7-We've had TP and its buggering up-ness which had a specific 'final scene that involves some turbulent storyline ideas'.

It just seems that Nintendo don't want OoT to be the SW anymore. I can't abide by retconning in-game evidence- a game is a game, a piece of plastic and metal that can't change. A human mind is far more malleable. It never said in-game 'OoT=SW'.

Developers changing their mind=/=Retcon.

And the FINAL thing that really made me go '****...' is that aLttP Link is SPECIFICALLY the last of the bloodline of the knights of Hyrule. Unless this refers to 'New Hyrule'- thus removing any necessity for Hylian blood in this sentence, it presumably refers to Old Hyrule and of the same group of knights from which OoT Link is descended.

Even 'great great grand-uncle four billion times removed' does not equal 'he has no connection to the Hero of Time' as tWW Link had none. If aLttP is AT it means OoT Link's bloodline survived the flood which we know not to be the case as a new bloodline was formed from the HoW.

The flood really does bugger up more than I once thought.

Originally Posted by River Zora

The thing that allowed me finally to swap my placement of aLttP after many a year of AT insistence is looking at logic behind developer intention.

1-OoT was going to be the Seal War to begin with- we know this.
2-They split the timeline and started ****ing about.
3-tWW came out on the AT. It has significantly more problems than just separating aLttP even with the Jap order which I followed- but I'll come back to that.
4-Since the confirmation of the split we've had no more developer comments claiming or confirming OoT as the SW.
5-We have had a retranslation removing Ganon's involvement from the SW.
6-We have had FSA which, although in its final build not successful, was intended to be the SW in development implying at the very least the possibility that Nintendo no longer have OoT=SW in stone.
7-We've had TP and its buggering up-ness which had a specific 'final scene that involves some turbulent storyline ideas'.

It just seems that Nintendo don't want OoT to be the SW anymore. I can't abide by retconning in-game evidence- a game is a game, a piece of plastic and metal that can't change. A human mind is far more malleable. It never said in-game 'OoT=SW'.

Developers changing their mind=/=Retcon.

And the FINAL thing that really made me go '****...' is that aLttP Link is SPECIFICALLY the last of the bloodline of the knights of Hyrule. Unless this refers to 'New Hyrule'- thus removing any necessity for Hylian blood in this sentence, it presumably refers to Old Hyrule and of the same group of knights from which OoT Link is descended.

Even 'great great grand-uncle four billion times removed' does not equal 'he has no connection to the Hero of Time' as tWW Link had none. If aLttP is AT it means OoT Link's bloodline survived the flood which we know not to be the case as a new bloodline was formed from the HoW.

The flood really does bugger up more than I once thought.

WW Link can't be a hero if he has no blood of the knights of hyrule. He simply is not a descendant of the HoT, nothing about the knights of the blood of hyrule. For all we know, all the heroes have different blood (excluding OoT-->TP)

Depending on how many Knights there were, WW Link can still have the Knight blood and not have a connection to OoT Link.

The problem is that, IIRC, the Hero of Time is descended from the Knights of Hyrule, and is the only known primary character with relevance to the events of The Wind Waker to possess that bloodline and lineage, meaning that the Hero of Winds cannot carry that same bloodline and lineage unless the developers intended him to be descended from a Knight - or Knights - that we have never met, which, although possible, isn't all that likely given that, in past cases where they have introduced relatives of a Link, said relatives have always been named, or at least referred to by a title (such as Uncle) indicating their relation to the Link in question.

OoT Link is never suggested to be related to anyone but his mom, and the Knights don't have to be related, so each Knight could have his own lineage.

Originally Posted by Beemnorv

OoT Link is never suggested to be related to anyone but his mom, and the Knights don't have to be related, so each Knight could have his own lineage.

Exactly, just as I said above, excluding the (I think OoT-->TP relation) all the Link's could be from different families.

Are the only Knights we know of the ones we see in FSA?

They're mentioned in most games- including the Oracles and Ocarina.

I mean important Knights that serve a strong purpose.

I mean important Knights that serve a strong purpose.

There's a possible dead one in TP but that's most likely the hero's shade.