The FSA-ALttP Connection

It depends on your hierarchy.

I can not deny the geographical similarities, but for so many reasons Geography and similar (or even nearly identical) buildings are further down my hierarchy of evidence.

Basically:

'Coastline?' 'Master Sword?' 'Ganon?' 'Triforce?'

Are significantly more important than geography, and beyond that it's much of a muchness-

Fundamentally I can only see FSA working on the AT.

I can also, given my current interpretation of developer intent and evidence, see aLttP being progressively more likely to be CT. If it's still AT then fine, it can be. But if it's CT (as is looking more likely to me by the minute) then they fundamentally have to be opposite timelines.

It's just possible versus probable- it's highly improbable such similar buildings could have been made both sides of the flood, but not impossible.

It is impossible for the coastline to exist, then stop existing, then start to exist...

And if you want to ignore the coastline as not timeline affecting- then I put to you that the improbability of buildings being the same is no greater than the hitherto fabricated resurgence of the Triforce Legend, Master Sword and every other thing that magically has to re-appear post-flood.

Both are flawed, let people choose what they think is least so or at least has enough evidence to counter it.

Originally Posted by River Zora

It depends on your hierarchy.

I can not deny the geographical similarities, but for so many reasons Geography and similar (or even nearly identical) buildings are further down my hierarchy of evidence.

Basically:

'Coastline?' 'Master Sword?' 'Ganon?' 'Triforce?'

Are significantly more important than geography, and beyond that it's much of a muchness-

Fundamentally I can only see FSA working on the AT.

I can also, given my current interpretation of developer intent and evidence, see aLttP being progressively more likely to be CT. If it's still AT then fine, it can be. But if it's CT (as is looking more likely to me by the minute) then they fundamentally have to be opposite timelines.

It's just possible versus probable- it's highly improbable such similar buildings could have been made both sides of the flood, but not impossible.

It is impossible for the coastline to exist, then stop existing, then start to exist...

And if you want to ignore the coastline as not timeline affecting- then I put to you that the improbability of buildings being the same is no greater than the hitherto fabricated resurgence of the Triforce Legend, Master Sword and every other thing that magically has to re-appear post-flood.

Both are flawed, let people choose what they think is least so or at least has enough evidence to counter it.

I would disagree with your use of a coastline as evidence, especially FSA's. We know that the land can not possibly be what we see in FSA because then FS and AoL would not make sense. Also, we don't know if an ocean implies a flood, nor that CT games don't also have oceans. Anyone with CT LttP/LA is a big hypocrite. (this is meant literally but not offensively.)

Except we know that Link went travelling in foreign lands before his ocean voyage- implies far further from Hyrule than just 'hey- where Eastern Palace is supposed to be is now a beach so lets go here.'

LoZ/AoL and FSA fit perfectly with in-game maps. And we don't know what's to the west of the AoL map- FSA implies more water and I'm inclined to agree.

FSA and LoZ have that wonderful coastline in the same place.

Originally Posted by River Zora

Except we know that Link went travelling in foreign lands before his ocean voyage- implies far further from Hyrule than just 'hey- where Eastern Palace is supposed to be is now a beach so lets go here.'

We also know that Link left from Hyrule.

LoZ/AoL and FSA fit perfectly with in-game maps.

FS and AoL match perfectly, but FSA deletes the entire main landmass and the largest island from view. Either that, or that chunk of land is farther north than it should be. Either way, with FSA's map being canon, something weird happens between FS and AoL.

And we don't know what's to the west of the AoL map- FSA implies more water and I'm inclined to agree.

Termina, then water.

FSA and LoZ have that wonderful coastline in the same place.

no, LoZ has more land to the east, with Zora's Domain as a reference point. We also see mountains to the west in LoZ, and nothing but water in FSA. Again, FSA is causing trouble with what otherwise makes sense.

Termina, then water.

I assume this is a joke? Termina is a parallel universe- not even on the same plane of existence of Hyrule... It is Narnia to our planet.

no, LoZ has more land to the east,

LoZ has a coastline all up its east side.

There is the question of the greater landmass to the west, but at any rate- FS matches perfectly and in-game FSA matches perfectly. Continent shape>landmarks to me, if we disagree then not much can be done as we're arguing different points!

Originally Posted by Pinecove

The towers are different as the ToH is on the left peak of DM and the Mountain tower is on the right peak.

Nothing says the tower wasn't moved to the other peak.

Yeah... Cause it being a new/different tower isn't a simpler and more likely explanation than they moved it across a great fat chasm with only a rope bridge to swap which peak it was on...

They even have different names- they're different towers.

Originally Posted by River Zora

I assume this is a joke? Termina is a parallel universe- not even on the same plane of existence of Hyrule... It is Narnia to our planet.

It's only half a joke. If you look at the west side of TP's map and Termina's east side, they line up perfectly. So perfectly, that I can't dismiss the possibility that Termina's bare landscape, at least, exists there.

LoZ has a coastline all up its east side.

find Zora's domain on LoZ, and look straight down. You see the forest there? That's what we see in FSA, plus perhaps LoZ L2. Notice that there is no expanse of mountains to the east in FSA as there is in LoZ. Where'd that go? In AoL, we see extensive mountains to the west of LoZ. FSA does not match accepted geographies.

There is the question of the greater landmass to the west, but at any rate- FS matches perfectly and in-game FSA matches perfectly. Continent shape>landmarks to me, if we disagree then not much can be done as we're arguing different points!

FSA may be a different shape, but the shape is simply wrong. It can not be what we see because it contradicts every other relevant game. Also, continent shape? LoZ's map is 2:1 and FSA is 1:1 width:height!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Pinecove

The towers are different as the ToH is on the left peak of DM and the Mountain tower is on the right peak.

the right peak in LttP is Dora's domain, a separate mount in FSA. The Tower is on the same peak between the two games. The left peak is where you find Ether.

Originally Posted by Slagr

I notice you did not answer my question. What, exactly, makes these things irrelevant? Is there another placement with more evidence, or are you just choosing to ignore the evidence you don't agree with?

it's not evidence, it's an assumption on your part. you can't prove that any of these so called connections have any real meaning. So until Nintendo comes out and states iFSA-LttP as fact, i see no reason to believe that the two are connected.

EDIT: I also notice that your placement of the FSS is AT, which implies that you hold "Triumph Forks" and ocean backgrounds in higher priority than

that old thing? I haven't held to that timeline for a while now, i just don't care enough to come up with up a new one.

If you're going by that logic Hyrule castle is built for giants.

I'm talking IN GAME map of FSA as in what you see when playing- piecing together the screens. FSA's level select is wrong in all kinds of scale. It's 3/4 Zora's domain for crying out loud!

There is a forest leading to a coastline on the SE of both maps- the land masses are identical in gameplay.

Originally Posted by Tyras

it's not evidence, it's an assumption on your part. you can't prove that any of these so called connections have any real meaning. So until Nintendo comes out and states iFSA-LttP as fact, i see no reason to believe that the two are connected.

what part is an assumption? Using in-game facts to determine a placement, and keeping that placement because there is nothing to tell me those things are false? There are legitimate connections, and nothing indicates otherwise.

and nothing indicates otherwise.

I disagree. Independently of eachother aLttP fits CT better nowadays and FSA AT. If either was released without the other I'd put them like that- I've no plans on changing it for aesthetics.

Originally Posted by River Zora

I disagree. Independently of eachother aLttP fits CT better nowadays and FSA AT. If either was released without the other I'd put them like that- I've no plans on changing it for aesthetics.

I still don't see your reasoning for AT FSA. Is your placement based entirely on the coast? Because that's the idea I'm getting, and I have to tell you that that is infinitely less convincing than that list Pinecove posted, not to mention specific problems with AT FSA, such as races and the "Old Hyrule" feel.

Originally Posted by Slagr

what part is an assumption? Using in-game facts to determine a placement, and keeping that placement because there is nothing to tell me those things are false? There are legitimate connections, and nothing indicates otherwise.

you are assuming that the land marks of FSA an LttP are the same, there is no official source that verifies this and yet you call it fact.

Originally Posted by Tyras

you are assuming that the land marks of FSA an LttP are the same, there is no official source that verifies this and yet you call it fact.

They have the same name and are in the same place with the same purpose, and you want Miyamoto to tell you they're the same? FSA-LttP is almost closer than OoT-TP!

Originally Posted by Slagr

They have the same name and are in the same place with the same purpose, and you want Miyamoto to tell you they're the same? FSA-LttP is almost closer than OoT-TP!

same name=/=same place. the Hylians have a history of naming new places after old ones and you know it. unless you belive that every lake hylia, and every death mountain, and every kakariko village, and every turtle rock etc. are all the same places.

Originally Posted by Tyras

same name=/=same place. the Hylians have a history of naming new places after old ones and you know it. unless you belive that every lake hylia, and every death mountain, and every kakariko village, and every turtle rock etc. are all the same places.

Hylia changes, but so does its purpose every time it changes. Again, same location, same purpose? Then yes, same place. Every Death Mountain is indeed the same, and there is only one western Kakariko I know of.

No Triforce ,MS or SR legends, Tower of Winds, Gerudo still alive (to me I know they're dead on CT but implied survival on AT through Forsaken Fortress), Zuna from where if not another random new flood race, the tMC AT arguments apply being in a direct arc.

Speaking of which- Vaati's attack is pre-OoT in your TL, yet come the time of FSA everyone's heard of and is worried about Vaati, less of a threat and an older legend, but no one's heard of or worried bout Ganon despite being far more recent history?

Every place in FSA that has the same name (Kakariko, Lost Woods, Death Mountain) has been explained in a game that more than one place can have these names (DM's interpreted, but explicitly said about Lost Woods 'when a forest is taken over by the dark world' and Kakariko 'welcome to old kakarico') and all the other places have DIFFERENT NAMES.

Desert PALACE=/=Desert TEMPLE
Eastern TEMPLE=/=Eastern PALACE
Tower of FLAMES=/=Tower of HERA
Desert of DOUBT=/=Desert of MYSTERY.

Blame poor localisation research if you want, but they all have specifically not the same names in our build.

Originally Posted by Slagr

Hylia changes, but so does its purpose every time it changes. Again, same location, same purpose? Then yes, same place. Every Death Mountain is indeed the same, and there is only one western Kakariko I know of.

so let me get this straight, you are saying that while lake hylia may change locations thoughout history, all death mountains are the same as their OOT counter part?

Originally Posted by River Zora

No Triforce ,MS or SR legends,

So what? WW involves all of that.

Tower of Winds, Gerudo still alive (to me I know they're dead on CT but implied survival on AT through Forsaken Fortress),

how about implied survival on the CT because TP specifically says that we can't access deep desert?

Zuna from where if not another random new flood race, the tMC AT arguments apply being in a direct arc.

So, is FSA unflooded OoT or a new land? Zuna are no more a flood race than Twili. Also, there are no AT tMC arguments.

Speaking of which- Vaati's attack is pre-OoT in your TL, yet come the time of FSA everyone's heard of and is worried about Vaati, less of a threat and an older legend, but no one's heard of or worried bout Ganon despite being far more recent history?

because Ganon dies after TP, and Vaati attacks before FSA during FS.

Every place in FSA that has the same name (Kakariko, Lost Woods, Death Mountain) has been explained in a game that more than one place can have these names (DM's interpreted, but explicitly said about Lost Woods 'when a forest is taken over by the dark world' and Kakariko 'welcome to old kakarico') and all the other places have DIFFERENT NAMES.

Desert PALACE=/=Desert TEMPLE
Eastern TEMPLE=/=Eastern PALACE
Tower of FLAMES=/=Tower of HERA
Desert of DOUBT=/=Desert of MYSTERY.

The Palace thing was to dodge religious stigmas. I still say same purpose and same location is enough to prove they're the same. The names are just gravy.

Blame poor localisation research if you want, but they all have specifically not the same names in our build.

Then tMC can't be in Hyrule eh?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Tyras

so let me get this straight, you are saying that while lake hylia may change locations thoughout history, all death mountains are the same as their OOT counter part?

DM is static. Compare some maps and tell me they aren't crazy similar. I know water moves, but mountains do not.